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Thread: Madara thread

  1. #1096
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    I think it's like this:

    Obito states that eyes that can use Susanoo are "rare". We also know that acquiring the Sharingan is rare, and gaining MS is rare aswell. This leads me to believe that the ninja's own personal potential determines what MS abilities they gain. You don't need Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu to gain Susanoo. You simply need to be a certain class of ninja on top of mastering both eyes. Madara was the strongest in his clan, so he has Susanoo. Sasuke was compared to Madara and stated to have chakra similar to his, though more sinister. He's also a genius. So he has Susanoo. Itachi was another genius. He has Susanoo.

    Basically, Susanoo to Uchiha is like Mokuton to Senju. Not everyone can have it... but the ones that do have it are the cream of the crop. Hashirama's the only Senju we saw with Mokuton, but that doesn't mean there were none before him.

    I do think that Madara can use Tsukuyomi though for the record. He wouldn't make a plan that requires Tsukuyomi if he couldn't use it. And the Juubi is a giant mass of unintelligent chakra. There's no way in hell it has the mentality to use Genjutsu. That's something that requires attention to detail as well as imagination.

  2. #1097
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    I think it's pretty obvious that Madara and Obito don't have Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi otherwise they would have used it in battle.
    I think Uchiha's in general all have different eye abilities since we have seen the many varieties that exist in Obito, Shisui, and the video of Madara being able to reverse time or something.

    Also, in terms of fight scenes and story telling, no one wants to see Amaterasu be abused in fights, it would be very overpowered like, imagine if Itachi stayed in the series with his insane totsuka blade, everyone would be sealed and the series would be over.

  3. #1098
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    @ninjabot
    Quote Quote:
    I do think that Madara can use Tsukuyomi though for the record. He wouldn't make a plan that requires Tsukuyomi if he couldn't use it. And the Juubi is a giant mass of unintelligent chakra. There's no way in hell it has the mentality to use Genjutsu. That's something that requires attention to detail as well as imagination.
    it could be an ability that becomes available once you are a Jin. Considering the power increase from Juubi perhaps he can do just about any crep you feel like.
    I gues this will be elaborated by Kishi in folowing chapters when we get back to the war.

    Madara is already OP in genjutsu and getting the Juubi would probably give him a nice boost to get the ability to control even time in his genjutsu.

    I mean it makes a lot more sense to be it like this (or some other reason) then asuming they do have it but they decided not to use it... Why the hell did Madara not 1 shoot just about all the Kages with it? Why did he used a regular one on Raikage? If he really has it and did not use it... Well its a plot hole to me.

  4. #1099
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    Don't know what does Madara having Tuskuyomi has to do with his plan. Just because it has Tsukuyomi in it's name doesn't mean it's the same as Itachi's. He already stated what Genjutsu he wants to use and how he will use it, here. He only need the Juubi's power to cast it from the moon. I don't know how everyone just missed that...

  5. #1100
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member DevilsNeverCry's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    Don't know what does Madara having Tuskuyomi has to do with his plan. Just because it has Tsukuyomi in it's name doesn't mean it's the same as Itachi's. He already stated what Genjutsu he wants to use and how he will use it, here. He only need the Juubi's power to cast it from the moon. I don't know how everyone just missed that...
    Fair point, but the fact it has TSUKIYOMI as part of the title, and it being a powerful genjutsu, leads you to join the dots logically based on information stated in the manga.

    If Kishi doesn't create any other techniques for Madara then he's gonna have even more fun coming up with the 'certain technique' that comes from EMS.

  6. #1101
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilsNeverCry View Post
    Fair point, but the fact it has TSUKIYOMI as part of the title, and it being a powerful genjutsu, leads you to join the dots logically based on information stated in the manga.

    If Kishi doesn't create any other techniques for Madara then he's gonna have even more fun coming up with the 'certain technique' that comes from EMS.
    Tsukuyomi means moon reader. While the Japanese myth states that Tsukuyomi is the moon god. The Genjutsu is meant to be cast from the moon. So I'm guessing this is the reason he put Tsukuyomi in the Jutsu's name...

  7. #1102
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    @KingOfNight

    Going by the link you provided.

    And the databook entry:
    Spoiler show


    You will find they speack about the same thing, well mostly. Total dominance of said ilusion and the ability to shape reality in it. They have a LOT of shared elements and as your own link sugest Madara is able to cast this powerfull genjutsu (even on 1 single other individual) after powering himself with the Mazo. So it would actualy make sense that Madara is able to achive this super genjutsu (that Itachi has) because he is powered by the Mazo.

    It would apear its the same jutsu BUT on a greater scale for Madara. I am sure Kishi had a good reason to name it "infinite Tsukuyomi". It has to be a connection.
    Last edited by xXan; March 15, 2013 at 07:51 AM.

  8. #1103
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    I already stated why I think he named it that.

    Personally, I don't think it's the same. Even the way the operate is different from each other (slightly.)

  9. #1104
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    @KingOfNight

    It would be weird to name both of them just because they both have something to do with the moon... Itachi is on a man at a time and Madara is on the entire planet so it would make sense to be infinite because of that.

    Tsukuyomi's only special ability is the control of time and obviously the perfect control. If Madara's genjutsu can do this then its Tsukuyomi any way you slice it as it shares the same properties. Only diference is the magnitude of the jutsu and that is why (aparently) it also has infinite at the end.

  10. #1105
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    I'm wondering if each set of brothers has the same set of individual eye powers, but each brother is better with one than the other according to their natural abilities. But, any Uchiha who unlocks eye powers in each eye has access to Sussano.
    According to Tobi, Susano'o is awaken only in few Uchiha with Mangekyo.

    But I think brothers have same jutsu or like-jutsu, probably with mastery in one area that they're good with (Sasuke with ninjutsu/Amaterasu and Itachi with genjutsu/Tsukuyomi). Obito has two versions of Kamui, but we don't know if he had a brother. If we know Madara and Izuna's MS jutsu, then we'd probably learn more, like each set of family having its own specific MS jutsu or something.

  11. #1106
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
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    Cool Well...

    It could be that Madara has Tsukuyomi in both eyes like Sasuke has Amaterasu in both.

    Maybe one of Madara's eyes casts Tsukuyomi at close range while the other acts as a long range reflector meaning that he can bounce the genjutsu until it reaches the target just like moonlight.

    Itachi had both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, however, he could not manipulate both beyond direct visual contact with the target.

    Sasuke can turn his flames into any shape so that he creates something even more powerful than Susanoo with inextinguishable flames like how Hashirama creates godlike things made out of wood.

    Madara can reflect his Tsukuyomi into any surface until it reaches the eyes of the target but it costs to much chakra to keep tracking several moving targets so that he needs the near infinite power of the Juubi to accomplish his Moon Eye Plan.

    Obito also has Kamui on both eyes, one which makes him "intangible" and sucks things at close range while the other teleports things at long range.

    By that logic, Shisui's eyes both had Kotoamatsukami but I guess that one (the one Danzou used) gives subtle changes in the target's mind while the other (the one in Itachi's crow) gives a single unbreakable command at the expense of locking the Magekyo for 5 whole years.

    I think it's fair to assume Shishui didn't have Susanoo because whenever both his eyes were used his Magekyo simple shut down for 5 years.

  12. #1107
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member TheLuffySmile's Avatar
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    Does Madara know that the Uchiha were annihilated?

    Since Madara and Obito formed their partnership and Madara died long before Uchiha Itachi slaughtered his whole clan, is the revived Madara actually aware of that his clan that he treasured above all else was annihilated?

    Feel free to share your thoughts!
    The three brothers

  13. #1108
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Does Madara know that the Uchiha were annihilated?

    Come to think of it, he hasn't noticed that there are no Uchiha on the battlefield... lol. Weird.

    I think he expected it to happen eventually, and has made peace with the fact that, since he wasn't there to protect them, they're probably all gone.

  14. #1109
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member TheLuffySmile's Avatar
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    Re: Does Madara know that the Uchiha were annihilated?

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Come to think of it, he hasn't noticed that there are no Uchiha on the battlefield... lol. Weird.

    I think he expected it to happen eventually, and has made peace with the fact that, since he wasn't there to protect them, they're probably all gone.
    Yeah I was thinking along those lines as well, but he might be so into his plan that it has simply slipped past him. If that is the case all hell's gonna break loose when he finds out!
    The three brothers

  15. #1110
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Does Madara know that the Uchiha were annihilated?

    Would it though? I think that if he were to find out he'd go silent for a moment... before flatout stating, with an indifferent face:

    "Fools. I told them nothing good would come from following that 'will of fire'. They should have listened. But doesn't matter now. Nothing matters anymore..."

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