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Thread: Madara thread

  1. #1126
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    Re: Was there no genius Uchiha between Madara and Itachi?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Tobi, not Madara. Madara was already dead. Plus, Tobi could have feared him for different reasons, not necessarily because of power or intellect, but the intel Itachi had.
    My bad, yeah. I don't usually like to speculate but Itachi is surely a character that even Madara would fear, and not just because of petty intel, if you know what I mean. I think we can all agree on that.

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    Re: Was there no genius Uchiha between Madara and Itachi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    As I explain to myself, Itachi was a Genius in his own league, along with Madara. Although, I'd praise Itachi even more since Madara feared him. Having said that, it's no wonder they were able to accomplish that.
    Madara didn't fear him, I'm not sure if Madara even knew him lol. Tobi respected him, but i wouldn't call it fear.

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Was there no genius Uchiha between Madara and Itachi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    My bad, yeah. I don't usually like to speculate but Itachi is surely a character that even Madara would fear, and not just because of petty intel, if you know what I mean. I think we can all agree on that.
    I'm not sure, Madara would probably be all "feh, he can't even last ten minutes with Susano'o." If it weren't for chakra, I think Itachi would be one of the most dangerous ninjas ever. But yeah, I agree. Fighting Itachi would result in a Pyrrhic victory, in most cases, if the enemy did somehow win.

    Itachi ftw!
    Vote for koen for favorite senpai so koen is active again!

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  5. #1129
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Was there no genius Uchiha between Madara and Itachi?

    Seriously?

    Not one person mentioned Shisui as a genius?

    The ninja with the most powerful Genjutsu in the manga?

    Okay. LOL.

    EDIT: Except the one person who should never be payed attention to, lol.

    But it's important to remember that a genius isn't born every day. There's only one Hashirama. There's only one Madara. But there's multiple ninja on the levels of the Sannin, the Akatsuki, and even the other Kage.

    I don't quite understand the reason to ask about the other geniuses amongst the Uchiha when we don't know anything about the other geniuses amongst the Senju. Since Hashirama, there's been two: Tobirama (which doesn't count, as he's from the same generation and is clearly beneath his brother), and Tsunade.

    The Uchiha have had more between that time period, but there have been more Uchiha since that time period aswell (for whatever reason the Senju are non-existant now).

    It would be like asking where all the Uzumaki sealing specialists are, when there ARE no Uzumaki other than Nagato and Karin, and neither of them use Fuuinjutsu. Just because we never heard of them doesn't mean they didn't exist.
    Last edited by ninjabot; March 26, 2013 at 07:30 PM.

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  7. #1130
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Was there no genius Uchiha between Madara and Itachi?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    For the record, madara isn't the same level with hashirama. The manga indicate that the gap between their powers are far too great. And so is izuna to tobirama. Tobirama didn't even sweat a little to defeat izuna.

    The uchiha in the konoha grown so weak. Kagami who was suppose to be tobirama's body guard don't have the guts and power like hiruzen.

    Do they deserve a praise? Hell Noh. They're nothing. Even uchiha itachi, one of their own stated that they're a pathetic clan. There's no uchiha who deserve a praise than itachi and shisui. Both of them deserves to be a hokage. And yet the uchiha wasted that opportunity.
    The Uchiha grew so weak they were feared throughout the five major countries. Tobirama was greater than Izuna, and yet shit his pants at the mere mention of Madara's name.

    The Uchiha deserve as much praise as the Senju. What's plainly obvious is Hashirama is loads more powerful than Madara, and seems to be the sole reason their clan achieved what it did. He was the one the turned the tides of the rivalry between the clans, and essentially made the Uchiha look so weak. After his death, his brother used the power his brother used to put the Uchiha under his boot. But then, he died, and so did his clan. But, Konoha lived, and thus kept the Uchiha, who were once again the big dogs, in check up until their slaughter.

    We know other MS users existed, but whether or not they were geniuses remains to be seen. Yet even if they were, it wouldn't matter because they all played the part of dogs to Konoha. Their status as geniuses has nothing to do with their propensity to lead or want to rebel.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  8. #1131
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Was there no genius Uchiha between Madara and Itachi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    The Uchiha grew so weak they were feared throughout the five major countries. Tobirama was greater than Izuna, and yet shit his pants at the mere mention of Madara's name.

    The Uchiha deserve as much praise as the Senju. What's plainly obvious is Hashirama is loads more powerful than Madara, and seems to be the sole reason their clan achieved what it did. He was the one the turned the tides of the rivalry between the clans, and essentially made the Uchiha look so weak. After his death, his brother used the power his brother used to put the Uchiha under his boot. But then, he died, and so did his clan. But, Konoha lived, and thus kept the Uchiha, who were once again the big dogs, in check up until their slaughter.

    We know other MS users existed, but whether or not they were geniuses remains to be seen. Yet even if they were, it wouldn't matter because they all played the part of dogs to Konoha. Their status as geniuses has nothing to do with their propensity to lead or want to rebel.
    When tobirama knows that madara was being brought back and killing a thousand ninjas, he just want to go to that battle field and want to fight madara. Yea, that's too much for shitting his pants by mere mention of madara's name.

    The latest chapter shows that the elders aren't really a senju. They're part of other clan who just made a truce to the senju like the uchiha. What does it mean? It means that the senju isn't really controlling the entire affair of the konoha. Just like tobirama said, the konoha is all about democracy. They voted for their hokage and to their elders. So basically, it's clear obvious that theres no uchiha capable enough to become a hokage and elders since tobirama's reign, hiruzen's reign and minato's reign.

    So if there's some uchiha capable or worthy enough for the hokage/elders position, then the current elders can't do anything to stop them for getting that position. It's all about democracY, the Jonin will vote for the hokage's sit.

  9. #1132
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    Moon and Sun give rise to Susano'o as Itachi commented. Moon simply means genjutsu or illusion. Itachi has a considerable mastery over it, and he's able to manipulate time and space within it, while others simply cast illusions. This by no means implies that the rest of them don't have tsukuyomi, they just lack the qualities Itaci has just like Itachi lacks Amaterasu mastery Sasuke has.

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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    They also lack the ability to show such a skill, meaning I'm not giving anyone credit for a skill they haven't shown.

    At best, they(Madara and Tobi) uses the Kyuubi to power up there Genjutsu to Tsukuyomi level.

  11. #1134
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    I've only read the title of this thread, but.. isn't this fact? Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi were Itachi's techniques. Sasuke inherited them by taking his eyes.

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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    Sasuke had Amaterasu before getting Itachi eyes, but could have very well inherited Tsukuyomi. That part is still unknown.

  13. #1136
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    Quote Originally Posted by shahdan View Post
    Moon and Sun give rise to Susano'o as Itachi commented. Moon simply means genjutsu or illusion. Itachi has a considerable mastery over it, and he's able to manipulate time and space within it, while others simply cast illusions. This by no means implies that the rest of them don't have tsukuyomi, they just lack the qualities Itaci has just like Itachi lacks Amaterasu mastery Sasuke has.
    This logic is flawed.

    What you are doing is to imply that Sasuke has tsukuyomi but can't control time.

    Going by this logic i can glaim:

    Sasuke has Kotoamatsukami just not as powerfull...

    Madara could only use this special genjutsu when using the Mazo's power as he himself stated. It stands to reason that once he has acces to the 10 tails power he can cast whatever genjutsu he feels like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    Sasuke had Amaterasu before getting Itachi eyes, but could have very well inherited Tsukuyomi. That part is still unknown.
    Tobi stated Itachi transfered his eye abilities into Sasuke:

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/397/11

    That would probably be the answer as to why Sasuke shares so much with Itachi... That or perhaps because they are brothers.

  14. #1137
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Tobi stated Itachi transfered his eye abilities into Sasuke:

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/397/11

    That would probably be the answer as to why Sasuke shares so much with Itachi... That or perhaps because they are brothers.
    Itachi transferred his trap Amaterasu to Sasuke and that was it. He didn't transfer all his powers, that much was obvious from the beginning.

    They share so much because they are brothers and both Uchiha's. It would make sense that to gain EMS you would need to replace your eyes with your siblings eyes because they are similar. It probably would not work with any run of the mill Uchiha.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    I thought the eyes were somehow combine, not replaced.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    This logic is flawed.

    What you are doing is to imply that Sasuke has tsukuyomi but can't control time.

    Going by this logic i can glaim:

    Sasuke has Kotoamatsukami just not as powerfull...

    Madara could only use this special genjutsu when using the Mazo's power as he himself stated. It stands to reason that once he has acces to the 10 tails power he can cast whatever genjutsu he feels like.



    Tobi stated Itachi transfered his eye abilities into Sasuke:

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/397/11

    That would probably be the answer as to why Sasuke shares so much with Itachi... That or perhaps because they are brothers.
    No it isn't. Time is controlled in Sasuke's genjutsu as well, though on a much shorter scale. The only thing he cannot control are physical sensations which Itachi can.

    Itachi never transferred Amaterasu to Sasuke; it was just a trap set for Obito. I have zero clue how people still believe this.

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    Re: Madara has no Amaterasu and Obito has no Tsukuyomi.

    Honestly, the Uchiha clan is one of the most uninteresting part about Naruto. Sadly, given their importance, that says quite a lot about the quality of the manga nowadays. To the smart-asses that are bound to ask me why I bother reading it, it's because I first started in 2002 (back when I thought it was excellent) and would like to know how it ends.

    In any case, it seems illogical that two brothers, Sasuke and Itachi in this case, would end up with the same eye techniques. If I'm not mistaken, Sasuke could also use Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu before "taking" Itachi's eyes, in some magical way (Note: my previous post saying that the aforementioned techniques were Itachi's was supposed to include Sasuke as well). If the reason for this lies in their genetic make-up, then surely random variation should make it extremely improbable that they would have the exact same optical alleles? Unless we're dealing with some trait that is always passed along, then by extension, the parents should have that same allele and consequently, at least one of the eye techniques (if at worst, a maximum of one eye technique is passed from each parent). If we think back to the 'first' Uchiha, then there should only be two eye techniques, really. Based on the fact that Uchihas are practically carbon copies of each other (hell, even Izuna and Sasuke look alike, and they should be very distant relatives), there doesn't seem to be much variation in the genetic pool of the Uchiha.

    Seeing as Sasuke & Itachi had the same techniques, does that mean that Izuna and Madara had the same techniques too? And if their eyes are so similar in terms of abilities, why are the Mangekyou shapes so different? Did Kakashi activate his Mangekyou Sharingan because Obito activated his and they are somehow still linked even though they have been separated into two different bodies? If not, how come Kakashi's emotions affect the Sharingan in the exact same way as pure Uchihas? If it's the latter, doesn't that contradict with what Tobirama/Hashirama said about the Uchiha being genetically very emotional and that's why the Sharingan evolves? All of this is so poorly explained and flawed.

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