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Thread: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Madara is already revered as a genius at a young age. However, Hashirama has been shown getting the best of him in their sparring matches (it seems like it).

    Is Hashirama stronger than Madara because of his desire to unify clans and create peace (which requires equally appropriate strength to rule over others) or is he naturally gifted because he's a Senju?

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member kataomoi's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Hashirama is stronger than Madara for one reason and one reason only....he shampoos his hair. No one with bad hair can rule the world let alone rule his own clan. Hashirama's long silky flowing hair is proof enough for me.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Are you serious?

    -Mokuton.
    -Just about Tsunade level regen.
    -Insane stamina, chakra...
    -SAGE MODE.
    -Super clones.
    -Super huge summon that dwarfs Kurama with Perfect Susano on it.

    Do i need to go on?

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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Because if the bad guy was stronger then he would have won and the rest of the story would never have panned out. Villains have to lose by default, unfortunately.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member kataomoi's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    In all seriousness they're evenly matched, but strength doesn't equal victory, and victory isn't always determined by technique either.

    I think Harshirama is more resourceful than Madara with his strength. If you look at Raikage vs Naruto, in a straight fight Naruto would have no chance against him; however, Naruto used his resources and craftiness to take down even an immortal Raikage.

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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    @kataomoi

    Emm Madara also had Kurama... If not for Kurama and Hashirama going all out i can't see how they could be on equal footing.

    Kurama is not exacly part of Madara's power but that is just my opinion.

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by YEEKUZA View Post
    Madara is already revered as a genius at a young age. However, Hashirama has been shown getting the best of him in their sparring matches (it seems like it).

    Is Hashirama stronger than Madara because of his desire to unify clans and create peace (which requires equally appropriate strength to rule over others) or is he naturally gifted because he's a Senju?
    Looks like Hashirama could be superior in taijutsu, but for all we know, Madara could be going easy. Hashirama and Madara as adults were for hte most part equal as they failed to kill one another and Madara began to gain as much fame as Hashirama did.

    If Kishi changes nothing, then Hashirama was already well known, and Madara became well known fighting with Hashirama and surviving. Hashirama could have beaten Madara at Valley of the End via will of fire. But given what Madara has said about Hashirama, he should have easily dominated over Madara as an adult.

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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Are you serious?

    -Mokuton.
    -Just about Tsunade level regen.
    -Insane stamina, chakra...
    -SAGE MODE.
    -Super clones.
    -Super huge summon that dwarfs Kurama with Perfect Susano on it.

    Do i need to go on?
    I didn't mean in the literal sense of power through techniques. I meant whether or not Kishimoto intended the audience to believe Hashirama was strong as we know him to be because of his desire to create peace or was he inherently stronger than Madara from the start (due to "Senju blood").

    I don't believe Kishimoto would be so shallow as to state that Hashirama is stronger than Madara because he is of Senju heritage. It kind of goes against the power dynamics shown throughout the series where geniuses are bested by tryhard lower classed ninja (ie. Naruto vs Neji, Rock Lee rivalry with Neji, etc.)

    I think the same applies to Naruto and Sasuke where Naruto went tryhardmode and most likely surpassed Sasuke at this point in time. It seems the only difference (fight wise) between the Madara, Hashirama feud and the Sasuke, Naruto feud is that Hashirama ultimately settled on killing Madara (and probably thought he was successful) whereas Naruto will not kill Sasuke.

    ---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Looks like Hashirama could be superior in taijutsu, but for all we know, Madara could be going easy. Hashirama and Madara as adults were for hte most part equal as they failed to kill one another and Madara began to gain as much fame as Hashirama did.

    If Kishi changes nothing, then Hashirama was already well known, and Madara became well known fighting with Hashirama and surviving. Hashirama could have beaten Madara at Valley of the End via will of fire. But given what Madara has said about Hashirama, he should have easily dominated over Madara as an adult.
    Perhaps Hashirama never wanted to kill Madara (until the flashback we have just seen when Hashirama activated his sagemode) because he viewed him as a rival/friend, the same relationship Naruto and Sasuke had at one point. This could be an explanation why Madara and Hashirama looked even in their fights against one another until possibly the end when Hashirama settled to kill Madara.

    I think the opposite occurred. The Uchiha dominated other clans after Madara came into power and it's been said when someone hired the Uchiha, they would be countered by Senju. I believe Uchiha were more well known due to their over imposing influence spread as a result of their fights.

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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Hashirama > Madara

    The guy basically defeated Madara + Kurama, all by himself like a boss, as Xxan said, Kurama normally isn't included into Madara's arsenal, although the Uchiha have the means to control him

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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    But Mito sealed the KYuubi in her during the fight, yet they were still equal.

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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Quote:
    I didn't mean in the literal sense of power through techniques. I meant whether or not Kishimoto intended the audience to believe Hashirama was strong as we know him to be because of his desire to create peace or was he inherently stronger than Madara from the start (due to "Senju blood").
    Well you have to remember that both Madara and Hashirama wanted to save the world of ninja from what it was experiencing on a daily basis. Children killing eachother. Families existing for the sole purpose of becoming murderers. It wouldn't be accurate to say Hashirama "wanted it more", because we know now from Tobirama's info that the Uchiha are controlled by by emotion.

    Quote Quote:
    I don't believe Kishimoto would be so shallow as to state that Hashirama is stronger than Madara because he is of Senju heritage. It kind of goes against the power dynamics shown throughout the series where geniuses are bested by tryhard lower classed ninja (ie. Naruto vs Neji, Rock Lee rivalry with Neji, etc.)
    Well... that's exactly what he's saying. Or, in a sense.

    Remember: the thing that places Hashirama above Madara is his sheer stamina and brute strength, both of which are the result of his Senju heritage. Even his Sage Mode is only possible because he was born with a colossal chakra reserve (as one needs a large chakra reserve to activate Sage Mode), thanks to being a Senju.

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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    The will of fire..... it was started by him. He has something to protect. The series will boil down to Naruto and Sasuke being images of Hashirama and Madara. One powered by love to protect and one powered by anger and vengence.

    Mokuton and all that shit is also with Yamato, yet he is weak as fuck.
    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.” - Terry Prachett

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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    But Mito sealed the KYuubi in her during the fight, yet they were still equal.
    We don't have the specifics. We don't know if it was during the battle or after. It is stated that Hashirama captured the Kyuubi in that fight and then to better aid him she sealed her inside of herself. It is not specified if it was during or after the fight.

    I seriously don't see how she could be sealing the fox or even get close to those 2 fighting... Not only that Kurama is protected by that huge Susano.

    We are going to get the specifics very soon but i am just about sure it was not during the battle.

    ---------- Post added at 12:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hokageji View Post
    The will of fire..... it was started by him. He has something to protect. The series will boil down to Naruto and Sasuke being images of Hashirama and Madara. One powered by love to protect and one powered by anger and vengence.

    Mokuton and all that shit is also with Yamato, yet he is weak as fuck.
    Yamato is nothing like Hashirama. He is like a bug. His ability to perform Mokuton, his chakra levels, chakra power and everything else is nothing like Hashirama's.

    The "will of fire" has nothing to do with Yamato's power level.

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    We don't have the specifics. We don't know if it was during the battle or after. It is stated that Hashirama captured the Kyuubi in that fight and then to better aid him she sealed her inside of herself. It is not specified if it was during or after the fight.
    Though not a 100% fact, Kushina said Mito sealed the Kyuubi in herself during the fight to better aid Hashirama. Plus, how would sealing Kyuubi in herself better aid Hashirama if it was done after the fight, where he shouldn't have as much of a problem restraining or controlling the Kyuubi?

    Quote Quote:
    I seriously don't see how she could be sealing the fox or even get close to those 2 fighting... Not only that Kurama is protected by that huge Susano.

    We are going to get the specifics very soon but i am just about sure it was not during the battle.
    There has been one flashback picture where the Kyuubi was not enclosed in Susano'o at all. I think it was nighttime? So she could have snuck up and done the seal as quickly as possible, or Hashirama could have stolen control and made it more docile so it wouldn't go on a rampage or for Mito to seal in her.

    Kushina could have been wrong, translation could have been wrong, or both were right. And if Kishi doesn't change anything, then the Kyuubi eventually lost its Susano'o protection (which I doubt would have prevented the sealing) and the fight lasted into the night, if it was day when the flashback started.


    Besides, Madara himself wasn't fighting physically, he was on the Kyuubi augmenting its power. Hashirama was basically fighting Kyuubi with some aid from Madara. Durin that two-page spread flashback (when Tobi was talkin to Sasuke?), Madara was attackin Hashirama while the Kyuubi was roaring.


    Either way though, now I wouldn't put it past Hashirama to have been easily dominant thanks to Mokuton but holding back, until like Naruto he realized or saw Madara couldn't be saved and killed him for the sake of Konoha and shinobi world.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c500/5.html

    ''In that battle, hashirama gained control of the kyubi. And in order to harness its power, mito seal the kyubi within herself.''

    Is this scan/kushina's statement isn't enough proof that hashirama gained control of the kyubi after he defeated both madara and the kyubi?

    There's too much assumption and excuses. There's still someone who keep twisting the manga fact and making up things for their beloved uchiha.

    The manga already stated that hashirama defeated madara together with the kyubi. And after that fight, hashirama gained control of the kyubi. Nothing more nothing less.

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