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Thread: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    Madara : This is the Wooden Dragon that Hashirama used to bound the Kyuubi.
    Really? I thought t'was defeated. Well, watevah.

    Bound or not, hashirama's wooden dragon was binding the kyubi's movement and at the same time, t'was absorbing the kyubi's chakra. So somehow, the kyubi becomes useless. So I think we can consider that as a win to hashirama. Right?

    And my point to RK is that hashirama has the power to fight kurama and madara at the same time. He doesn't need his wife at all. Saying that mito helped hashirama to fight madara is just a bad excuse and at the same time a baseless assumption. They want to believe that madara was defeated by hashirama because mito was there to helped him. As in, what the hell is that?

    If hashirama don't want the landscape to be destroyed by their jutsu, then why would he want mito to help him to fight madara? Is hashirama is that just desperate? Why would he, anyway? Hashirama knew that he's superior to madara. That's why he said that he don't want to kill him.

  2. #32
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Really? I thought t'was defeated. Well, watevah.

    Bound or not, hashirama's wooden dragon was binding the kyubi's movement and at the same time, t'was absorbing the kyubi's chakra. So somehow, the kyubi becomes useless. So I think we can consider that as a win to hashirama. Right?
    More or less.

  3. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    uhh... so discussion is about Hashirama, Madara, Kyuubi and Mito. well, i don't care if Mito sealed Kyuubi after or during the battle. for me, Hashirama overpowering Madara with perfect susanoo armored Kyuubi is a proof good enough.
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  4. #34
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by YEEKUZA View Post
    you forget that hashirama isn't using his wood element during his sparring with madara. madara with sharingan may be able to counter common jutsu and taijutsu but he can't defend himself against something no one but hashirama can cast (his fire element should be stronger than wood element but perhaps hashirama has really strong wood skills)
    As we've been shown multiple times in the past, it doesn't work like that. Take Sasuke vs Haku for example. In the real world, fire melts ice, in the Naruto world, not so much. It was barely effective. Therefore, the same can apply here. Don't you think that if it was that black-and-white, Madara, With his OP fire techniques, would have had a much easier time? Yet, he did not.

  5. #35
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Too much assumption. You're denying the manga fact, as usual.

    Madara : this is how hashirama defeated the kyubi. ( the wooden dragon).

    How come you keep on insisting that mito was helping hashirama in his fight against madara? Does madara's words and the latest chapter aren't enough to conclude that hashirama defeated both madara and the kyubi? Do you really think madara would respect hashirama that much if he was defeated by both mito and hashirama? Come on RK. You're down playing hashirama's caliber and his win against madara. Just accept it already. Hashirama defeated madara and the kyubi and he's more superior to madara.
    Not seeing how I'm ignoring anything when we actually saw the Kyuubi capable of fighting off the Wooden Dragon, making it's binding not exactly a major game changer...

    And actually, the previous chapter would prove the opposite. We clearly saw Hashirama with no edge over Madara and the Kyuubi. If Mito came in later and "aid" Hashirama by sealing the Kyuubi, that would easily grant Hashirama the edge enough to "defeat" Madara. Mito taking down the Kyuubi would in no way reflect upon Hashirama's ability to fight Madara, so there would be no issue with Madara respecting him. There's no downplaying going on, especially since I'm going by what we are actually being shown.

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  7. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
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    Cool Well...

    My two cents puts it all down to chakra.

    The huge difference between Madara and Hashirama is in the amount of chakra the each have and while they have techniques matching each other in strenght, Hashirama can keep them going for longer and that's why he won.

    When you factor in Kurama, it's a two edge sword, while it's chakra is much bigger than that of Hashirama (something Madara likely accounted for) said chakra can only be used by a Jinchuriki whereas Madara had to spent his own chakra controlling the beast and rely solely on it's brute power against that of Hashirama.

    In the end, probably both fighters were exhausted, however, Madara would have won if Hashirama didn't remove the fox from his control and that's were Mito came in to take Kurama down before Madara could recover.

    Afterwards, Madara and Hashirama were on a pure 1x1 and Hashirama's greater stamina and chakra reserves ended up besting Madara.

    Also, keep in mind that Madara was not actually aiming for a victory there but actually to steal cells from Hashirama so that he could awake the Rinnegan and start the Moon Eye Plan.

    In the flashback of Kurama, right before Madara took control of him, the latter was already speaking about the tailed beasts coming from a single being and that was strong evidence that his Moon Eye Plan was already clearly set on his head.

    His goal was to obtain Hashirama's power and the Rinnegan before disappearing from the world view so it's likely that even if Madara had won, he would have pretended to have died alongside Hashirama to keep his plans going.

    It's likely that Madara's original Moon Eye plan was something more simple like getting the Rinnegan, releasing the Mazou from the Moon chasing the tailed beasts by himself and reviving the Juubi to brag about it on Hashirama's face.

    Indeed, the way Madara speaks, he likely planned to make an astounding comeback armed with the Mokuton, the Rinnegan and the Juubi to beat Hashirama soundly and tell the world to bow before him like the god he think he is.

    However, things didn't go as planned, Madara grew old with no noticeable results from his implant whereas Hashirama kicked the bucket on his own and by the time Madara finally awoke the power he sought it was to late to use it on his available lifespan.

    Hence he had to drag Nagato and Obito into the whole bullshit and the latter managed to pull it off spectacularly.
    Last edited by 1337 haxor; March 18, 2013 at 03:59 PM.

  8. #37
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    well after todays chapter we can say Hashirama is always naturally stronger then madara

  9. #38
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Not seeing how I'm ignoring anything when we actually saw the Kyuubi capable of fighting off the Wooden Dragon, making it's binding not exactly a major game changer...

    And actually, the previous chapter would prove the opposite. We clearly saw Hashirama with no edge over Madara and the Kyuubi. If Mito came in later and "aid" Hashirama by sealing the Kyuubi, that would easily grant Hashirama the edge enough to "defeat" Madara. Mito taking down the Kyuubi would in no way reflect upon Hashirama's ability to fight Madara, so there would be no issue with Madara respecting him. There's no downplaying going on, especially since I'm going by what we are actually being shown.
    So, you still want to insist that hashirama has no edge over madara and the kyubi? From the latest chapter, it's now so damn obvious that hashirama is way more superior to madara.

    And what do you mean about being shown?

    Hashirama run away from madara at the forest to avoid the destruction of the landscape. Have you seen him worrying on mito? No. Did madara even said that mito sealed the kyubi at that fight? No. Did madara said that mito helped/aid hashirama at that fight? No. The fight in the vote is just between madara and hashirama, nothing more. Saying that mito was there to help/aid hashirama to defeat the kyubi or madara is just a baseless excuse/assumption.

  10. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    So, what's up with Mito coming in a battle where mountains are getting sliced and nuclear explosions everywhere ? Is that even possible ?

    Beside, Hashirama was shown talking to the Kyuubi (battle-worn) most likely after his battle with Madara.

  11. #40
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    So, you still want to insist that hashirama has no edge over madara and the kyubi? From the latest chapter,
    Spoiler show
    Quote Originally Posted by suraj5898 View Post
    well after todays chapter we can say
    Spoiler show
    How about following the 24hr rule, a spoiler is a spoiler! I know how unwise it is to enter this thread without anticipating them, but it could still happen.
    Last edited by Schabrak; March 19, 2013 at 02:16 PM.
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  12. #41
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    So, you still want to insist that hashirama has no edge over madara and the kyubi? From the latest chapter, it's now so damn obvious that hashirama is way more superior to madara.
    How exactly did the current chapter change anything? I already acknowledged that without the Kyuubi, Hashirama had the advantage over Madara (but it clearly wouldn't have been that great given all we seen). Therefore bringing the Kyuubi along would have allowed him to even things out, as was shown.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    And what do you mean about being shown?
    We were shown the VotE battle in progress and Hashirama was being pushed back by the duo and Madara countering everything thrown at him. Now explain exactly where it's implied that Hashirama had an edge over them during that fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Hashirama run away from madara at the forest to avoid the destruction of the landscape. Have you seen him worrying on mito? No. Did madara even said that mito sealed the kyubi at that fight? No. Did madara said that mito helped/aid hashirama at that fight? No. The fight in the vote is just between madara and hashirama, nothing more. Saying that mito was there to help/aid hashirama to defeat the kyubi or madara is just a baseless excuse/assumption.
    Baseless assumption? Um, we were outright told by Kushina that Mito sealed the Kyubi to aid Hashirama, which would have only been aid had it happen during the battle, with Hashirama busy with Madara. And you seem to be missing the fact that Hashirama wouldn't need to ask for the aid for Mito to give it. It's like the situation with Minato and the Kyuubi. Kushina aided Minato by holding it down while he was tired, yet no one else mentions her role in that event when people speak of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    So, what's up with Mito coming in a battle where mountains are getting sliced and nuclear explosions everywhere ? Is that even possible ?

    Beside, Hashirama was shown talking to the Kyuubi (battle-worn) most likely after his battle with Madara.
    Why not, if she's being concerned about her husband. And that can easily have been during the battle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    How about following the 24hr rule, a spoiler is a spoiler! I know how unwise it is to enter this thread without anticipating them, but it could still happen.
    It's only a spoiler if they were to reveal something unknown before. Hashirama being stronger isn't a spoiler in general.

  13. #42
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    So, what's up with Mito coming in a battle where mountains are getting sliced and nuclear explosions everywhere ? Is that even possible ?

    Beside, Hashirama was shown talking to the Kyuubi (battle-worn) most likely after his battle with Madara.
    Yeah, it is possible. It's not like the duo are destroying EVERYTHING without any sense of direction, nor does she have to be there for the entire fight. She could just pop in when Hashirama takes over the control of the Kyuubi, seal it in her, laugh at Madara, and run away.

  14. #43
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Yeah, it is possible. It's not like the duo are destroying EVERYTHING without any sense of direction, nor does she have to be there for the entire fight. She could just pop in when Hashirama takes over the control of the Kyuubi, seal it in her, laugh at Madara, and run away.
    is that very important fact? Hashirama is stronger than Madara, period. if he can outlast both Madara and Kyuubi until Mito shows up, he is definitely stronger than Madara.
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  15. #44
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    That's pretty much been the main argument for why he's was stronger then Madara for some time: the fact that his Senju body would allow him to outlast Madara, especially when the latter as throwing around a bunch of high cost techniques. Throw in regeneration and Sage Mode, and it becomes less about raw power and more about durability.

  16. #45
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    That's pretty much been the main argument for why he's was stronger then Madara for some time: the fact that his Senju body would allow him to outlast Madara, especially when the latter as throwing around a bunch of high cost techniques. Throw in regeneration and Sage Mode, and it becomes less about raw power and more about durability.
    may be, but that are the things that made Hashirama stronger. Madara used "high cost techniques" is also "high powered techniques" and yet was unable to defeat Hashirama. Hashirama outlasted Madara, not only Madara, Madara along with Kyuubi. that is pretty evident from the link posted by KingOfNight. may be Hashirama has Senju body, may be that's the reason. but it is undeniable that Hashirama could outclass Madara along with Kyuubi.
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