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Thread: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

  1. #121
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    I saw a really interesting theory from Narutobase:

    Hashirama was more powerful because he was a perfectly benevolent man, and thus had the perfect yang chakra.

    Madara was not fully evil and thus his yin chakra was insufficient.
    Only problem with that is is that Hashirama killed people, he had to have. Naruto would be the perfectly benevolent man because he's never killed a live human being before. The closest he's come was attempting to kill Haku, Orochimaru, and Kakazu.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  2. #122
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    I'm confused now. Hashirama has said that he was better than Madara, but Madara then says he's the only one who can fight on an equal footing. Though based on their fight before the alliance was formed, Hashirama could be better because he can last longer than Madara thanks to his stamina - the only thing that puts Hashirama on somewhat a higher pedestal.

  3. #123
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    I'm confused now. Hashirama has said that he was better than Madara, but Madara then says he's the only one who can fight on an equal footing.
    He was inferior until he got EMS.

    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c624/17.html

    Once he got EMS he fought Hashirama, Tobirama and who knows how many Senju for 24 hours straight, which is pretty damn impressive even if its likely Hashirama held back a bit because he just wanted Madara incapacitated, not dead.

    There are even different translations which say "Madara laid down on the ground for the first time". Not sure which one is correct, but its possible while the Uchiha as a whole where inferior to the Senju, the gap between Madara and Hashirama wasn't so huge after all.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/624/16
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  4. #124
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    MangaFox and MangaReader don't work for Americans....

    So far though, EMS doesn't make as much of a difference other than preventing blindness (though who knows now?). There's also no reason to believe that Madara couldn't have been equal with Hashirama even before EMS. Maybe EMS allowed Madara to keep fighting against Hashirama and Tobirama at the very least.

    MS's translation and MP's translation could mean the same thing, or it can also mean different thing. "Madara had finally fallen" can also mean the same thing as "Madara laid down on the ground for the first time." Sadly though, both translations can mean different things and why he finally fell or laid down.

  5. #125
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    If we go by what Sasuke has shown, in addition to the supposed new technique EMS is said to grant, it appears that it allows the user to employ their MS techniques far easier and for less cost then before.

  6. #126
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Only problem with that is is that Hashirama killed people, he had to have. Naruto would be the perfectly benevolent man because he's never killed a live human being before. The closest he's come was attempting to kill Haku, Orochimaru, and Kakazu.
    You have a point there.

    Anyway, the whole thread here is talking about "was".

    Madara is stronger than anyone other than the SoSP now.

    How his almost-certain fight with the 5 Hokages would turn out can be summarised as follows:

    a) Hokages may win if they strike before Madara can seal the Juubi in him
    b) Madara would likely win if he manages to coerce Obito into sealing Juubi inside a resurrected him before the Hokages arrive.

    Time is of the essence now.

  7. #127
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    wow, so now it's been made that madara fought all of them together.
    Naruto Forever


  8. #128
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    He was inferior until he got EMS.

    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c624/17.html

    Once he got EMS he fought Hashirama, Tobirama and who knows how many Senju for 24 hours straight, which is pretty damn impressive even if its likely Hashirama held back a bit because he just wanted Madara incapacitated, not dead.

    There are even different translations which say "Madara laid down on the ground for the first time". Not sure which one is correct, but its possible while the Uchiha as a whole where inferior to the Senju, the gap between Madara and Hashirama wasn't so huge after all.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/624/16
    If Hashirama can win over Madara+Kurama the gap should be considerable if Madara is alone.

    ---------- Post added at 01:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Only problem with that is is that Hashirama killed people, he had to have. Naruto would be the perfectly benevolent man because he's never killed a live human being before. The closest he's come was attempting to kill Haku, Orochimaru, and Kakazu.

    Killing or not its irrelevant to the "benevolent" part. If i try to kill X and FAIL for whatever reason then that does not make me benevolent because i failed.

    Naruto clearly whent for the kill a good number of times. You can add on that list Kabuto just as well. Kabuto would be DEAD if not for healing abilities...
    Hell Naruto surendered himself to Kurama when Kurama offered the way out with surendering his body so Kurama can start killing everybody...

    Also nobody is perfecly benevolent. At 1 point or another you are going to do something out of greed, personal gain/goal, anger and so on. We are humans, all of us. Nobody is perfect.

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  10. #129
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    From the looks of it, there was little to no gap. The fact taht Madara lost only because he was exhausted says a lot, not to mention that according to Hashirama, it was the first time he saw Madara fall. It's also been said or implied that Mito sealed the Kyuubi during Madara's fight with Hashirama, after Hashirama likely took control of the Kyuubi so Madara couldn't regain control or Kyuubi wouldn't distract Hashirama. If this happened in middle of the battle, and Madara still lasted a long time and on almost equal standing, then there's not much of a gap.

    Hashirama didn't have to focus on two things at once when he fought Madara on top of Kyuubi, he just needed to worry about the Kyuubi-with-Madara-on-top. Madara was providing defense and offense, but he wasn't personally fighting.


    Though either way, there's no doubt that Hashirama was the stronger one at the end of the battle. Despite what Tobi said to Konan, I think Madara went all out.

  11. #130
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    At this point when we saw that EMS Madara took on ten Senjus and then fell down after exhausting himself for a continuous 24 hour battle, leads me to believe that Prime Madara and Hashirama were neck to neck. There is the whole Mito controversy as well which I for one cannot put aside.

  12. #131
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Well now we know.

    Why is Hashirama stronger then Madara? Because Madara needed Kurama to even fight Hashirama at full power... Even then he lost... I mean the 9 tails ffs...

    The gab was big enough aparently. Good thing for Madara that Hashirama never whent all out on his arse before that last battle...

    I also love that the hole "Mito sealed Kurama off and that is why he won(or gave him the opening to win)" stuff can be put to rest.

  13. #132
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Who said Hashirama won because Mito sealed Kyuubi? All I said was that Mito sealed Kyuubi during the fight, taking away any chance of Madara getting Kyuubi back from Hashirama. Nothing disproves this, especially when Kyuubi was nowhere to be seen at the end.

  14. #133
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Well now we know.

    Why is Hashirama stronger then Madara? Because Madara needed Kurama to even fight Hashirama at full power... Even then he lost... I mean the 9 tails ffs...

    The gab was big enough aparently. Good thing for Madara that Hashirama never whent all out on his arse before that last battle...

    I also love that the hole "Mito sealed Kurama off and that is why he won(or gave him the opening to win)" stuff can be put to rest.
    Huh? That may have been what we previously believed, but the last few chapters have shown otherwise. Even after losing the Kyuubi, Madara kept fighting Hashirama til they were both exhausted, with Hashirama winning not through sheer force but a clever trick. So I'm not sure how you see the gap as being big, if anything, it shows how close they were.

    And no one claimed Mito sealing the Kyuubi was why he won, only that it aided him. Nor was it disproven.

  15. #134
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Who said Hashirama won because Mito sealed Kyuubi? All I said was that Mito sealed Kyuubi during the fight, taking away any chance of Madara getting Kyuubi back from Hashirama. Nothing disproves this, especially when Kyuubi was nowhere to be seen at the end.
    Did I quote you? I did not even read what was said above my post...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Huh? That may have been what we previously believed, but the last few chapters have shown otherwise. Even after losing the Kyuubi, Madara kept fighting Hashirama til they were both exhausted, with Hashirama winning not through sheer force but a clever trick. So I'm not sure how you see the gap as being big, if anything, it shows how close they were.

    And no one claimed Mito sealing the Kyuubi was why he won, only that it aided him. Nor was it disproven.
    Because Hashirama had to waste chakra taking down Kurama and losing his "all hands" monster in doing so... You can see him here:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/626/8
    He is no longer using his big "robots"... If not for Kurama those punches would have made Madara into paste.
    Hashirama had to lose chakra to summon those crep and what not. Madara countered those punches with Kurama and his Susano. If you remove Susano Madara goes splat.

    Also I did not quote you or M3J. Thins is i remember people claiming (no idea if this was in this topic) that Mito sealing Kurama was a bonus for Hashirama in that fight. It is also interesting both of you missed "or give him an opening to win".

  16. #135
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hashirama stronger than Madara?

    Doesn't matter who you were talking to, in a public forum you should expect people to reply to you whether they were in convo or not. I'm just annoyed at how people keep denying Mito sealed the Kyuubi in her during the fight when Kushina implies it. Or why people are saying Hashirama is epic because he fought Kyuubi and Madara when it was more of a 1-on-1 fight, not 2-on-1. In the flashback, Hashirama just had to focus on one target who was aided by Madara with extra defense and some extra offensive weapons. It wasn't as if Madara was attacking one side and Kyuubi was attacking another.

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