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Thread: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

  1. #31
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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renaan View Post
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-500-3/...hapter-46.html
    Now what I find curious is that when a quincy dies, they retain their quincy abilities and don't say move onto becoming Shinigami.
    Well, Juha and the rest of the Vandereich didn't die a natural death.
    By natural death I mean the physical body dying and the soul going to SS/Rukongai.
    As far as we know the Shinigami are trained from spirits in SS/Rukongai.

    The Vandereich somehow survived the war and hid in HM, in which they somehow found a way to survive.
    If they are still in Physical form or if they died and became spirits, we still don't know.

  2. #32
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    From what I understand shinigami are also a part of the balance of souls. If they die their souls also move on to the other side and get reborn just like any ordinary soul. Now, the key thing here is perhaps that shinigami bodies which are technically souls also have souls of their own. When aizen died I remember a shinigami saying that it was confirmed that the soul's soul left aizen's body although I can't recall the chapter. Perhaps the balance is not of spirit particles but rather the balance is made of the soul's soul which moved between worlds.

  3. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantized View Post
    The old Zangetsu should still be there though, Tensa Zangetsu is only when he enters his inner world while in bankai, and for a long while the old Zangetsu was gone while his hollow was on a rampage, so perhaps the original Zangetsu will be there now that we saw Tensa Zangetsu in bankai.
    I find Zangetsu, not Tensa Zangetsu, the best to support Ichigo, cause he appear much more wise and intelligent in that state, where as Tensa Zangetsu is much more emotional. I think the design of Tensa Zangetsu is to allow to show his emotions towards Ichigo, as it would be weird if the full grown man did that.

    So will we see the original Zangetsu again? I think we will, when he discovers his roots.
    I meant Zangetsu the blade, rather than the spirit. Ichigo's new Shikai looks a lot like Bach's. Well, the actual blade does anyway. But that's strange, given that Zangetsu is also very similar to Engetsu. Odd that it would share similarities with two blades that, as far as we know, are completely unrelated to each other. Unless of course the link between Bach and Masaki is deeper than them both being Quincy.

  4. #34
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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    The curious thing is that Ichigo meet Juha face to face and even briefly fought, and he didn't say a word about Juha appearance looking like Zangetsu. I mean he's meet Zangetsu enough time to be sure to see a noticeable appearance. People kept pointing out how much Ichigo looked like Kaien Shiba, so he's not above foreshadowing.

  5. #35
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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    Quote Originally Posted by rogueSleipnir View Post
    Well, Juha and the rest of the Vandereich didn't die a natural death.
    By natural death I mean the physical body dying and the soul going to SS/Rukongai.
    As far as we know the Shinigami are trained from spirits in SS/Rukongai.

    The Vandereich somehow survived the war and hid in HM, in which they somehow found a way to survive.
    If they are still in Physical form or if they died and became spirits, we still don't know.
    Who says they didn't die a natural death?

    A shinigami is a dead human who has spiritual power, they then get taught how to use that spiritual power. What we have never seen is what happens when a Quincy dies, the only dead two we know of are Masaki and Ishida's grandfather who ended up being experimented on anyway.

  6. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    Who says the Vandenreich are even dead? They could be alive......Mayuri did say Bach is the man Yamamoto COULDN'T kill. And the Ishida family survived the war, maybe Bach and his followers discovered this ice realm and hid there. Maybe Bach was banished from the Quincy back then for being too cruel and violent. According to Yama he was always like this, and that contradicts the philosophy Uryu upholds/ the one Mayuri said he hated because the Quincy would always talk about it. Who knows.

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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    From what I understand shinigami are also a part of the balance of souls. If they die their souls also move on to the other side and get reborn just like any ordinary soul. Now, the key thing here is perhaps that shinigami bodies which are technically souls also have souls of their own. When aizen died I remember a shinigami saying that it was confirmed that the soul's soul left aizen's body although I can't recall the chapter. Perhaps the balance is not of spirit particles but rather the balance is made of the soul's soul which moved between worlds.
    Shinigami bodies are made of Reishi (spirit particles) just like anything else in the spirit world.
    They still have souls inside them too.

    http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Shinigami

    I think you mistook the entirety of their bodies as a singular 'soul'.

  8. #38
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    Quote Originally Posted by rogueSleipnir View Post
    Shinigami bodies are made of Reishi (spirit particles) just like anything else in the spirit world.
    They still have souls inside them too.

    http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Shinigami

    I think you mistook the entirety of their bodies as a singular 'soul'.
    Technical those reiatsu embodiments are the soul though, the plus soul from earth turned into a SS citizen. That they have a mind on their own with a real brain etc and can bleed, despite all being just reiatsu somehow turned into earthly molecules, is a weird concept that we will likely just have to accept, especially since in the SS dimension those incarnated souls are able to have sex and create live on their own.

    I'm just waiting for a hollow offspring appearing somewhere in this arc. XD Harribel is only allowing the arrancarfication of other hollows, but those aren't her spawn are they?
    Last edited by Schabrak; March 16, 2013 at 07:33 AM.
    Firm but Fair

  9. #39
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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    maybe then can control soul particles, so they can remain alive

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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    Spoiler show


    Zangetsu may not be fair off, but lets imagine for a second that Yhwach was some how, long ago related to the Shiba clan head way back when, then wanted to revolt due to his selfishness and they(being Shiba) had to show "Soul Society" that Yhwach ideals wasn't they're s.
    Last edited by devstauk; March 19, 2013 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Adding extra content
    Spoiler show

  11. #41
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    Quote Originally Posted by rogueSleipnir View Post
    Shinigami bodies are made of Reishi (spirit particles) just like anything else in the spirit world.
    They still have souls inside them too.

    http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Shinigami

    I think you mistook the entirety of their bodies as a singular 'soul'.

    Well, but my point would be that souls and the balance of souls do not really consist of reishi alone moving from one side to the other. I basically wanted to point out the possibility of the shinigami's body and its soul being distinctly different things as some people here are suggesting that the balance of souls basically consist of reishi moving from one side to the other.

    ---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by devstauk View Post
    Spoiler show


    Zangetsu may not be fair off, but lets imagine for a second that Yhwach was some how, long ago related to the Shiba clan head way back when, then wanted to revolt due to his selfishness and they(being Shiba) had to show "Soul Society" that Yhwach ideals wasn't they're s.
    I am of the idea that this would be a strange concept. For one thing juhabach must and the quincy must necessarily have some sort of human ancestry and perhaps actually be some sort of humans (even if modified humans). Among other of the noble clans we hear about the 26th or 28th head of the clans which is a pretty huge number if we consider your average shinigami can live for hundreds of years and if he actually does not die in combat for over thousands of years. So how far back would a shiba-bach familial tie go? Things get really murky if the shiba house has had as many heads as other clans and we consider juhabach is a human. Otherwise we would be talking about something like juhabach losing a sibling or relative and within a human lifetime the two of them meeting again (and a human lifetime seems like a remarkably short time for a shinigami to achieve anything).

    While the who juhabach/zangetsu/ishin looking alike is true there is the consideration that it makes no sense at all. Shiba and juhabach being related makes little sense. Zangetsu, being shinigaim powers, looking like juhabach is even weirder. If masaki was related to juhabach is some form it would make sense zangetsu could conceivably look like juhabach however as things are a relation between them as of now is not obviously evident. The kurosaki seem to be, like the ishida, members of the quincy from 200 years ago but not necessarily immediately related to vandenreich. Perhaps masaki is a distant descendant from juhabach but that does not address juhabach looking like ishin or other members of the shiba clan. Unless juhabach is related to both the shiba and the kurosaki and shiba and masaki are distant cousins or something.

  12. #42
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    Fact still remains that no Quincy would be able to live for longer then the normal human life-span since Quincy's are human's with the ability to manipulate Reishi, now from what we have been shown in the past chapters is that the VR cannot leave their "realm" for extensive amounts of time. This tells me that their "realm" plays a major role with them having the ability to outlive the normal life-span, but 1000years is a huge amount of time this is why i think JB is or was a Shinigami turned rogue, and the rest of his disciples are descendants of those that helped him back then. But then again im not the writer so i guess i will have to wait and see how this pans out.
    Spoiler show

  13. #43
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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    Bach could be one of the original or close to the original pure blood Quincies a thousand years back (sucks to call em pure blood, but seems like it's important to power levels in Bleach).
    Thereby he could in theory be great, great, great, great grandfather to Ichigo, since Masaki is from a normal human death branch of tjhe Quincies, who die of old age.

    If this is the case, then Masaki / Ichigo are in family with Bach, but a very long time ago.
    If this is why Zangetsu looks similar, then I could accept it, in fact, I have hard time accepting any similarities to begin with.

    It could also simply be because Kubo found Zangetsu apperance to be so bad ass, that he had to copy his style for a villain.
    Sure enough, old man Zangetsu is pretty darn bad ass! So I find this a possibility as well.

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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    Now its time to revist the Zangetsu/Juha Theory XD
    Spoiler show

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  17. #45
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    Re: I think it's time to revisit the Zangetsu / Juha similarity theory...

    YES! I am so so happy right now .... it was only a hunch that there was a link between the two, but I couldn't shake it. Honestly When I looked at the facial hair they seemed too different so I thought I was barking up the wrong tree for a while....but this last chapter totally vindicated my suspicions

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