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Thread: Early Senju vs Uchiha skirmishes.

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    Early Senju vs Uchiha skirmishes.

    As leaders of their respective clans, I believe that Hashi and Madara staged their fights to get their clans tired of fighting. I believe that both of them manipulated the outside world into hiring them to gain money and respect from as well as to make their clans war weary in preparation for their treaty. We know now that Hashi and Madara believed in each other and so I doubt they would fight each other with a risk of death. Those guys pulled a fast one on the everyone. They manipulated their respective clans into becoming war weary. I believe that the idea came from Hashi and Madara followed along with it. Madara eventually regretted it because he wanted to be the leader and stronger of the 2. Thus he felt jealous and worried that the cycle would continue and Senju would continue to destroy the Uchiha's fighting spirit. That's why Madara left and fought Hashi. Thoughts?
    Last edited by redrob098; March 12, 2013 at 09:32 PM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Early Senju vs Uchiha skirmishes.

    not sure if this is a troll thread but,

    first of all Madara obtained Mangekyo along with his brother to rule the Uchiha clan. This probably will occur in next chapter or something with their father dying in battle against Tobirama, their father, and maybe Hashirama as well. Why rule the clan only to create peace by fighting to get tired? Judging by the flashbacks, it seems Hashirama was always stronger than Madara. Hashirama ultimately settled to kill Madara in that previous chapter or so, when he realized there was no way of turning Madara back to his former self. It is likely that Hashirama went into every battle not trying to kill Madara which is why Madara was able to continue on. Only when the village system was threatened did Hashirama resolve himself to kill Madara.

    Wouldn't Madara want revenge as well? Money is almost of no concern as they can literally threaten any power and obtain it, and since when was money such a big deal in Naruto? Hashirama doesn't need money to create a village he can use his own powers to do so.

    Kishimoto has set up the Hashirama and Madara relationship to be very similar to that of Sasuke and Naruto. Except in this generation's case, Naruto vowed not to kill Sasuke, even if he attacked the village.

    second, the only reason Madara would go against Hashirama is because they have two different methods of governing. Madara has shown that he likes brute force (threatning Iwagakure to obey Konoha). Hashirama created the village system so that peace could finally be achieved, he seems to be more diplomatic in his approach while Madara's may be more totalitarian. Madara's moon of the eye plan, if it is real, is basically that, total control with his genjutsu to create peace.

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    Re: Early Senju vs Uchiha skirmishes.

    Quote Originally Posted by YEEKUZA View Post
    not sure if this is a troll thread but,

    first of all Madara obtained Mangekyo along with his brother to rule the Uchiha clan. This probably will occur in next chapter or something with their father dying in battle against Tobirama, their father, and maybe Hashirama as well. Why rule the clan only to create peace by fighting to get tired? Judging by the flashbacks, it seems Hashirama was always stronger than Madara. Hashirama ultimately settled to kill Madara in that previous chapter or so, when he realized there was no way of turning Madara back to his former self. It is likely that Hashirama went into every battle not trying to kill Madara which is why Madara was able to continue on. Only when the village system was threatened did Hashirama resolve himself to kill Madara.

    Wouldn't Madara want revenge as well? Money is almost of no concern as they can literally threaten any power and obtain it, and since when was money such a big deal in Naruto? Hashirama doesn't need money to create a village he can use his own powers to do so.

    Kishimoto has set up the Hashirama and Madara relationship to be very similar to that of Sasuke and Naruto. Except in this generation's case, Naruto vowed not to kill Sasuke, even if he attacked the village.

    second, the only reason Madara would go against Hashirama is because they have two different methods of governing. Madara has shown that he likes brute force (threatning Iwagakure to obey Konoha). Hashirama created the village system so that peace could finally be achieved, he seems to be more diplomatic in his approach while Madara's may be more totalitarian. Madara's moon of the eye plan, if it is real, is basically that, total control with his genjutsu to create peace.
    No this isn't a troll thread. It's been stated that whenever the Senju were HIRED for whatever reason the Uchiha were hired to counter them and vice versa. That implies some sort of counter balance to Senju/Uchiha power. If those were the only 2 clans with any power the whole world would have been under the dominion of the 2 clans. Why were they mercenaries and not royalty?

    Next point Hashi was an outcast in terms of his beliefs. Madara was the only one who had the same views as him. His father was extremely angry that he was talking about what he believed in. Hashi and Madara both prove that their beliefs are the most important thing to them by warning each other of the danger. That took such an emotional toll on the clans that the prevailing view was peace = complete destruction. How would you propose getting every clan member to go along with living right next door to once hated enemies? You think Hashi and Madara could just say I'm your ruler so now you have to make friends.. No there wouldn't be peace. They had to wear out the fighting spirit of the clans. Show them how pointless the fighting was.. Just as they believed it was. They had an extremely strong friendship very early on to save each others life even though they could have been branded a traitor. I see no reason why they wouldn't work out a plan together to make peace happen. Even if it meant putting the clans beliefs 2ND to that.

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    Re: Early Senju vs Uchiha skirmishes.

    you state "fighting spirit" which is a concept never introduced in the series and in reality, is just a term to try and create reason to fighting. like money, it has no real significance in the story. the fact that they were hired has nothing to do with the long term of the series as well, look at the "father" nations who supposedly control the decisions and what not of Konohagakure, other villages etc. they have absolutely no significance to the story, Kishimoto wrote them basically for no reason, they contribute nothing to the actual main storyline.

    we are watching a flashback right now, the upcoming chapters will show us when/how/why Hashirama and Madara diverge from this point. IF Madara and Izuna gain the Mangekyo in this chapter, it would follow the storyline of having Madara rule over his clan by using it. IF Hashirama's father dies, the next person in command would be Hashirama. It is highly unlikely Madara and Hashirama will be secretly meet up again, discuss buddy-buddy dreams of creating peace after the upcoming chapter.

    the point being, they are not going to be buddy-buddy as we all know what occurred in the end. just logically, it doesn't make sense for the two to have their clans fight it out and kill one another just to get them "tired" and get them to understand how to achieve peace. If anything, it would go more like this, whenever Uchiha go and try to dominate X area, Senju are hired to defend X area. I highly doubt Hashirama is trying to rule using violence. I am sure Madara is probably headed this way (especially after Izuna dies).

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    Re: Early Senju vs Uchiha skirmishes.

    Quote Originally Posted by YEEKUZA View Post
    you state "fighting spirit" which is a concept never introduced in the series and in reality, is just a term to try and create reason to fighting. like money, it has no real significance in the story. the fact that they were hired has nothing to do with the long term of the series as well, look at the "father" nations who supposedly control the decisions and what not of Konohagakure, other villages etc. they have absolutely no significance to the story, Kishimoto wrote them basically for no reason, they contribute nothing to the actual main storyline.

    we are watching a flashback right now, the upcoming chapters will show us when/how/why Hashirama and Madara diverge from this point. IF Madara and Izuna gain the Mangekyo in this chapter, it would follow the storyline of having Madara rule over his clan by using it. IF Hashirama's father dies, the next person in command would be Hashirama. It is highly unlikely Madara and Hashirama will be secretly meet up again, discuss buddy-buddy dreams of creating peace after the upcoming chapter.

    the point being, they are not going to be buddy-buddy as we all know what occurred in the end. just logically, it doesn't make sense for the two to have their clans fight it out and kill one another just to get them "tired" and get them to understand how to achieve peace. If anything, it would go more like this, whenever Uchiha go and try to dominate X area, Senju are hired to defend X area. I highly doubt Hashirama is trying to rule using violence. I am sure Madara is probably headed this way (especially after Izuna dies).
    When I said "fighting spirit". I wasn't trying to create a reason for them to fight as you say. They have reasons to fight already. I'm not adding anything to that. My point is that I believe that both Hashi and Madara stayed friends somehow and worked together to stop their clans from fighting by wearing them out. The clans were going to keep fighting until 1 side or the other killed every last member of the other side. Popular opinion was so extremely against the 2 of them that they had to influence events somehow to being about the village. You are 100% right about how the countries don't fit into the story though. I'm just looking at it from a logical perspective. It's Kishi's story though so you're right we'll find out soon enough.

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    Re: Early Senju vs Uchiha skirmishes.

    lately i've been thinking of some ideas similar to this. My theory is that over time (based on the events of the upcoming 624) Madara and Hashirama were pushed to the front of the clans as leaders but made a pact to always to fight each other..but never kill each other to try and spread the idea of unity among both sides, win or loss. I think as they aligned themselves into konoha they BOTH discovered the secrets of their history by sharing knowledge as clan leaders (how to get rinnegan, origin of Gedo Mazo, Inyoton etc etc)

    From there I think is where the real split comes and Madara wanted to take steps toward The Moons Eye plan while Hashirama may have had a counter method to the knowledge they learned that just involved a more docile approach.

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