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Thread: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

  1. #1
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    I am refering to this:
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/624/17

    If only Hashirama allowed Tobirama to kill him right there and then...
    That would mean:

    1-No Madara Hashirama big fight.
    2-No Tobi.
    3-No Pein.
    4-No Uchiha masacre (they got pushed to far after it was asumed they summoned the Kyuubi or something like that).
    5-No death of a ton of Jins.
    6-A lot of villages would not have lost the biju balance as they lost said jins.
    7-No Minato and Kushina death.
    8-No Sarutobi ending up dead (Minato would be there).
    9-No Hell that Naruto had to go trough.
    10-No Itachi sacrifice.
    11-No Sasuke going nuts.
    12-NO END OF DAYS that we have curently in the manga.

    And a lot more... The list is BIG... Of course Naruto would not be who he is today and Gaara would be probably lost and so a few others but hell...

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  3. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member S-H-I-G-U-R-E's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    Nobody can know beforehand wether or not the choices they make are the best possible. To me, the best choice is the choice that IN THAT MOMENT is most aligned to your own principles. You can't predict how things are going to turn from then. Just believe and stay true to yourself, and I think that Hashirama is a fine example of that. I don't blame him at all.

  4. #3
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    No united shinobi forces, had all that not happened. So much had to go wrong to allow the best possible future from happening. A typical shounen so to say. :-D
    Twitter - Firm but Fair

  5. #4
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member pseudorca's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    to quote a certain grey wizard:

    Quote Quote:
    "Many who live deserve death, and some that die deserve life - can you give it to them? Do not be so quick to deal out death and judgement. For Even the very wisest cannot see all ends."

    ...and that's why ninjas need to carry isotonic drinks...


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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shader's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    Maybe it would be better to kill Madara right there, but... you know...
    1) I like the Minority Report film, in wich the final idea is "you cant judge people for the things wich doesnt happened yet"
    2) Who knows, maybe Narutoverse would become even worse if Madara got killed right there...for example no Uchiha on side of leaf in second war and post it, Kakashi is dead too (No Obito to save him and no sharingan for him), team 7 dead too(even if Kakashi is alive)...Zabuza killed them all..Naruto have no goal in life and becomes like Konohomaru on their first meeting, Jiraya still dieing, Pein still show himself(why the hell there would be no Pein if Madara created him after his "death"), in fact the whole rest of "Infinity Tsukuyomi" plan would be still held with collecting tail beasts ( they were sealed anyway) so, you cant tell for sure how killing Madara right there and now would'v benefit the story in a good manner.
    3) But for what i can tell, there would not be the soultion of biiju's "problem" (Naruto gonna solve it, he is befrending all of em, not just use their powers) and there would not be the solution of "different countrys" all the nations gonna be united after this war, just like Hashirama wanted it form the start.

  8. #6
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    Quote Originally Posted by S-H-I-G-U-R-E View Post
    Nobody can know beforehand wether or not the choices they make are the best possible. To me, the best choice is the choice that IN THAT MOMENT is most aligned to your own principles. You can't predict how things are going to turn from then. Just believe and stay true to yourself, and I think that Hashirama is a fine example of that. I don't blame him at all.
    Principlies are all nice and good but considering the fact that allowing that man to live would probably end up in more wars and more deaths of your own clan... Probably not a good idea.

    He did not kill Madara (mostly) because of his feelings for him. He was his BFF for a some time. I am sure if that was random fodder A he would be dead at that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    No united shinobi forces, had all that not happened. So much had to go wrong to allow the best possible future from happening. A typical shounen so to say. :-D
    Yes but some 50.000(or whatever was the number) and up people would be alive right now... I am sure the family of said dead ninja would see it my way.
    But as you said, it will end good because its a manga...

    Quote Originally Posted by pseudorca View Post
    to quote a certain grey wizard:
    That is all nice and good if you can control said element. If all you do is risk more wars, more death and so on then it changes. This is not about revange or justice, its about protecting the people that are still allive and future generations. I mean asuming they had some VERY good detention centers that could HOLD and i mean HOLD Madara there (and considering the curent events this is obviously wrong) then yes... Let that guy live but to allow a madman that only whants to kill your entire clan live is a big no-no if you ask me.

    I am wondering what Gandalf would do to all the pedofiles and mass murderers in the world? Allow them to go free? Its good we have some nice prisons but asuming we do not? Asuming we had people that can summon towering monsters to blast out of prisons at the smalles of mistakes?

    A leader does not get to take some riskcs as you are RESPONSIBLE for the lives of every men you have under you.
    He should at the very least rip Madara's eyes out.

    @Shader

    Quote Quote:
    1) I like the Minority Report film, in wich the final idea is "you cant judge people for the things wich doesnt happened yet"
    I never asked for him to know the future as he obviously can't. I said it turned up as a HUGE mistake because of what happened later but he obviously did not take this choice because he knew the future. Thing is given the circumstances it would probably be better to kill him or AT LEAST rip his eyes out. For more on this read above what i said to the others.

    Quote Quote:
    2) Who knows, maybe Narutoverse would become even worse if Madara got killed right there...for example no Uchiha on side of leaf in second war and post it, Kakashi is dead too (No Obito to save him and no sharingan for him), team 7 dead too(even if Kakashi is alive)...Zabuza killed them all..Naruto have no goal in life and becomes like Konohomaru on their first meeting, Jiraya still dieing, Pein still show himself(why the hell there would be no Pein if Madara created him after his "death"), in fact the whole rest of "Infinity Tsukuyomi" plan would be still held with collecting tail beasts ( they were sealed anyway) so, you cant tell for sure how killing Madara right there and now would'v benefit the story in a good manner.
    Uchiha as part of the vilage at that point would need to be complete morons to not help the home they live in.

    If not for Obito Kakashi would NOT be dead... He would just be missing a sharingan and end up with 2 normal eyes. He only "died" because he whent after Obito and because he was missing an eye saving that loser. Perhaps with a team member that was actualy good the Rin event could be avoided completly.

    If kakashi did not have a sharingan to train in that area he would have something else... Also do i need to remind you that in the second fight Kakashi had with Zabuza he could not use his sharingan(mist) and was just fine(aka he WON)?

    Naruto and his goal in life... We don't know that. We also can't asume he would turn up as Konahamaru. Konohamaru himself got a nice goal. Having Minato and Kushina there to help Naruto grow up and i am sure he would end up as a bloody genius. His genes ARE good enough for it. He just end up as a moron in Konoha (at the start of the manga) because he did NOT have Minato and Kushina there.

    JMan would not die as Pein would not be there to kill him.

    JMan and the entire Aka was created BY MADARA. If Madara is DEAD then NO RINNEGAN FOR NAGATO... How could you miss this?

    The entire plan with infinite tsuck was created by Madara. That plan would not exist or be possible if Madara was not there. You need the RINNEGAN to summon the Mazo... No rinnegan and no plan. Nobody but Madara had the Rinnegan after RS death.

    Quote Quote:
    3) But for what i can tell, there would not be the soultion of biiju's "problem" (Naruto gonna solve it, he is befrending all of em, not just use their powers) and there would not be the solution of "different countrys" all the nations gonna be united after this war, just like Hashirama wanted it form the start.
    I was refering to the balance of power and not the biju's freedom...

    Oh and of course they are going to end up unitated but the cost was huge... They already lost what? 50.000 ninja? Like half of the army? Don't really remember the number.

    Now even if you create the alliance one would wonder how long it would last... WOuld it end up justifing all the deaths? Greed and the fight over resources its not going to stop. How many generations are going to remember the curent events before returning to fighting over whatever they can get?
    Last edited by xXan; March 26, 2013 at 05:40 AM.

  9. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shader's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan
    JMan and the entire Aka was created BY MADARA. If Madara is DEAD then NO RINNEGAN FOR NAGATO... How could you miss this?
    I am missing nothing, the "big fight" they had ended with Madara's "death", i dont think there is any dffernce in his "death" there or now, izanagi will still have its effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan
    If kakashi did not have a sharingan to train in that area he would have something else... Also do i need to remind you that in the second fight Kakashi had with Zabuza he could not use his sharingan and was just fine?
    No, my point in Zabuza part was not Kakashi, but Sasuke.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan
    If not for Obito Kakashi would NOT be dead... He would just be missing a sharingan and end up with 2 normal eyes. He only "died" because he whent after Obito and because he was missing an eye saving that loser. Perhaps with a team member that was actualy good the Rin event could be avoided completly.
    Oh no, at its "best" Kakashi would'v just abandon Rin and became a "trash"

  10. #8
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner BulaNe's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    1-No Madara Hashirama big fight.
    2-No Tobi.
    3-No Pein.
    4-No Uchiha masacre (they got pushed to far after it was asumed they summoned the Kyuubi or something like that).
    5-No death of a ton of Jins.
    6-A lot of villages would not have lost the biju balance as they lost said jins.
    7-No Minato and Kushina death.
    8-No Sarutobi ending up dead (Minato would be there).
    9-No Hell that Naruto had to go trough.
    10-No Itachi sacrifice.
    11-No Sasuke going nuts.
    12-NO END OF DAYS that we have curently in the manga.
    let me continue

    13- no Konoha or other villages
    14- no Kushina + Minato pairing
    15- no Naruto
    16- no interesting story about gutsy ninja to draw manga about

  11. #9
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    The events leading to Tobi heavily outweigh any kind of positive aspect of this manga
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

  12. #10
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    "Maybe" [it clearly is] Madara is the "Celestial Being" of this series, combining the worlds forces against a common enemy to end the internal conflicts. He chose to rather kill a couple thousand than a possible mutlitude of that over the next couple of ninja world wars.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulaNe View Post
    let me continue

    13- no Konoha or other villages
    14- no Kushina + Minato pairing
    15- no Naruto
    16- no interesting story about gutsy ninja to draw manga about
    17. Without a strong state in the middle of the continent, more death and slaughter between the other ninja villages.
    Last edited by Schabrak; March 26, 2013 at 06:48 AM.
    Twitter - Firm but Fair

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  14. #11
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member R3D's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    Jiraiya friggin soloing pain in pains home turf instead of teaching naruto sage jutsu early on and where the heck were the sanins during the kyubbi attack on konoha ..

  15. #12
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    Gambling, experimenting with different life forms, paying for booze and women.
    Twitter - Firm but Fair

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    Quote Originally Posted by BulaNe View Post
    let me continue

    13- no Konoha or other villages
    14- no Kushina + Minato pairing
    15- no Naruto
    16- no interesting story about gutsy ninja to draw manga about
    Kill Madara, make peace with Uchiha, start villages. Why wouldn't there be a Konoha without Madara?

  17. #14
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    @Shader

    Quote Quote:
    I am missing nothing, the "big fight" they had ended with Madara's "death", i dont think there is any dffernce in his "death" there or now, izanagi will still have its effect.
    Em no, if Madara really died back then before the Rinnegan would be awaken then no Rinnegan for Nagato so Pein would have never existed...

    Quote Quote:
    No, my point in Zabuza part was not Kakashi, but Sasuke.
    How would Sasuke die if Kakashi did not have the sharingan?

    Quote Quote:
    Oh no, at its "best" Kakashi would'v just abandon Rin and became a "trash"
    "trash" but alive. Also if he had another team member and go after rin the outcome could be even better as Obito was just... Well BAD.

    @BulaNe


    Quote Quote:
    13- no Konoha or other villages
    Why would Konoha not be there? After Madara would go down the Uchiha would have no chanse BUT to side with the Senju. A lot of them where already with the senju as they had it with Madara...
    The rest of the points you provided would need the first to happen and i don't see it...

    @Schabrak

    Quote Quote:
    "Maybe" [it clearly is] Madara is the "Celestial Being" of this series, combining the worlds forces against a common enemy to end the internal conflicts. He chose to rather kill a couple thousand than a possible mutlitude of that over the next couple of ninja world wars.
    Lol it would be something if Madara ends upas a type of hero that saved the world :P

    Quote Quote:
    17. Without a strong state in the middle of the continent, more death and slaughter between the other ninja villages.
    I seriously don't see how Konoha would not happen... I mean no Madara and with Hashirama around and a lot of Uchiha already going to his side... Konoha would be just a matter of time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nieuwsgierig View Post
    Kill Madara, make peace with Uchiha, start villages. Why wouldn't there be a Konoha without Madara?
    Exacly. It makes no sense to me... If nothing else he could wipe them all out easy... Remember the huge statue he summoned in Sage Mode that was towering about Susano up Kurama?

  18. #15
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

    Because he is still the leader of his clan, which likely represents the majority of Uchicha alive?
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