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Thread: Will Yukimura leave??

  1. #136
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukikuranoske View Post
    Fuji used CE to Counter Saiki. With Closed Eyes he had to play instinctively so his next move couldn't be read with saiki. I don't think it gives a major stat boost. When Niou turned Shiraishi, Fuji didn't use CE anymore.
    Except Fuji also used CE against Kirihara, and that wasn't to counter any Prediction based abilities so it really isn't as simple as that.

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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Except Fuji also used CE against Kirihara, and that wasn't to counter any Prediction based abilities so it really isn't as simple as that.
    Well, he literally couldn't see. So in that sense he was countering his blindness.

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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    I do think CE does boost his stat decisively aside from what have been said already like he's sensitivity being improved to an even higher level and being unpredictable.

    Isn't Fuji who fought Niou!Tezuka before using CE the same Fuji at the end of his match against Shiraishi? If it is then...
    Spoiler show

    Based from that panel, from what Shiraishi said, there is a significant boost in stats using CE.

  4. #139
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Shiraishi never saw Fuji using CE though, right?

    I'm wondering now, Fuji has ever used it to boost his stats? As far as I remember it, he used CE to counter Saiki and when he was blind.

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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    He has never used CE outside of those two instances if that's what you're asking.

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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Shiraishi never saw Fuji using CE though, right?

    I'm wondering now, Fuji has ever used it to boost his stats? As far as I remember it, he used CE to counter Saiki and when he was blind.
    Spot on . Closed eye is a tech which is useful under some definite circumstances. Such as countering saiki & blindness. It doesn't increase his stats. If it did he would've used CE against Tezuka before nationals & against Shiraishi during nationals.

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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukikuranoske View Post
    Spot on . Closed eye is a tech which is useful under some definite circumstances. Such as countering saiki & blindness. It doesn't increase his stats. If it did he would've used CE against Tezuka before nationals & against Shiraishi during nationals.
    Eh?
    Also, CE was something he somehow accessed in a pinch, like how many characters access a new state for the first time. Its only in a pinch and they need to be pushed again to access it properly.
    Although I do concede that its odd he didn't bring it out against Shiraishi.

    To say CE "doesn't boost stats" at all is a big statement too. Prior to the match he hadn't surpassed Tezuka. After using CE he had "Surpassed Tezuka".
    This is back at Kanto for instance. Regardless of Tezuka's standing, for him to have climbed above someone suggests some kind of stat lift I think.

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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Who said that?

    Oh, Ryuzaki... moving on.

    Lol, seriously, she prolly said that because Tezuka wouldn't be able to do something like CE... or because Fuji showed that he was better than the Tezuka that was as strong as the weakest Rikkai member... or because plot, I dunno.

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    Arrow Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Eh?
    Also, CE was something he somehow accessed in a pinch, like how many characters access a new state for the first time. Its only in a pinch and they need to be pushed again to access it properly.
    Although I do concede that its odd he didn't bring it out against Shiraishi.

    To say CE "doesn't boost stats" at all is a big statement too. Prior to the match he hadn't surpassed Tezuka. After using CE he had "Surpassed Tezuka".
    This is back at Kanto for instance. Regardless of Tezuka's standing, for him to have climbed above someone suggests some kind of stat lift I think.
    Fuji actually raised his game playing Shiraishi. Unfortunately his last shot didn't landed accurately. He didn't get an upgrade against Niou. He showed what he acquired playing Shiraishi. He didn't surpassed Tezuka using CE. He only countered saiki using CE which he had before. Niou probably couldn't use or didn't wanted to risk himself using Hyakuren & Tezuka Phantom after five games. So Niou only had saiki. Fuji used CE to counter it. Thats how he won. Although Sumire-chan said Fuji surpassed Tezuka its almost like saying Nanjirou that Ryoma has reached his level. Which Sumire-chan did after Ryoma activated TMnk.

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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Who said that?

    Oh, Ryuzaki... moving on.

    Lol, seriously, she prolly said that because Tezuka wouldn't be able to do something like CE... or because Fuji showed that he was better than the Tezuka that was as strong as the weakest Rikkai member... or because plot, I dunno.
    I agree with both things in bold.
    I've been a bit shaky on Ryuzaki's words before.

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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    On Fuji closed eyes, it really does implies it for me. Fuji was losing to Niou Tezuka in rally before (where he doesn't use Saiki. And I don't think anything show that Saiki reduce your rally skill.). When Fuji use closed eyes, he stomp Niou Tezuka in rally.

    Of course, let's go back to the other time we saw closed eyes used as well. Fuji stated that without using it, he wouldn't have won. That should shows that closed eyes improve Fuji skill as well. At first, he didn't play well with it, so it's more of a handicap similar to Fuwa's "closed eyes". But toward the end, it push him to another level, as stated as he himself and Ryuuzaki as well.

    And of course, what Airgrimes say about this tech is true as well.
    I can't believe I've missed this, I agree to this.
    Niou!Tezuka was outrallying Fuji prior to CE and I don't think it's because of him being mentally shaken (maybe at first he was) nor not being focused enough since Fuji himself stated that he's been looking forward to play against Tezuka, if anything it should boost (it did) his motivation ergo making him play better.

    Spoiler show


    After that Fuji was able to rally against Niou!Tezuka equally (barely), Niou!Tezuka>=Motivated Fuji (Niou!Tezuka was still better).

    Even if Saiki was sealed, Niou!Tezuka was still better than Fuji, if CE only counters Saiki, Niou!Tezuka should still be better at rallying than Fuji, but as we see with CE, Niou!Tezuka wasn't able to retaliate in any form, he wasn't able to get a score off from Fuji.

    So based from that, CE should give Fuji a boost, he went from being stomped by Niou!Tezuka to destroying Niou!Tezuka, there is a definite stat increase there.

    I think the reason he wasn't able to use CE against Shiraishi is because he hasn't mastered it yet ergo not able to use it at will. Against Kirihara, he wasn't able to use at will, he was forced to play blind and later unlocked CE and against Niou!Tezuka, he was able to use it at will.

  14. #147
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    This is going to be the last long post in a while that I promise Kaoz to make a debate, anyhow,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I don't know, maybe it's because you are correct in saying that they were close in one way or another (we agree on this part, the only difference is that you include special moves and I don't), and now they don't seem to be. Why is the conclusion here that Marui is worse than his stats suggest?
    So, why is the conclusion not that he's worse? If you want specific example from Marui, we saw Marui playstyle already. He actually used his volley move in all 3 matches that he's play in so far that we see on screen. That's actually 100% of on screen match that we saw him play. The other match against Jackal was completely off scene. We do not see a single panel.

    And if you agree that Jackal and Marui are close to each other and that you say before that Marui is not a high tier character, then I don't have much to argue about, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I don't see how I do. I am assuming what we've been shown, you're assuming something we haven't been shown. Like I said, I can easily prove my point by looking through the manga and seeing that there's nothing else.
    Except you are not assuming what we've been shown since we're not shown anything at all. The whole match, except the exchange in the beginning was completely off scene.

    You're assuming that "things" are happening off scene. Players not using their special move is an "event" that happen in the match. If we're not shown that match, then assuming that doesn't have any extra proof. Lack of proof is not a proof.

    If this match, we only know the score. That's it.

    Let's see Fuwa vs Yukimura match, we can assume,

    1. Fuwa win only 1 point, and the rest is long volley.
    2. Fuwa was winning in many games (If we were to assume that he keep winning point, since he's the only one shown to win point in that match)
    3. Yukimura was 6-6 with Fuwa or whatever score it is when Yips occur.

    Is any of them not an assumption? They all can fit with what we've seen (1 point that Fuwa win). The only correct statement is to make say,

    1. Fuwa win 1 point.

    Similarly, the only confirm point here is

    1. Marui beat Jackal in a very close tiebreaker.

    Nothing else is confirm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Eh?
    Also, CE was something he somehow accessed in a pinch, like how many characters access a new state for the first time. Its only in a pinch and they need to be pushed again to access it properly.
    Although I do concede that its odd he didn't bring it out against Shiraishi.
    On this, actually, when Fuji was against Kirihara, he was "forced" to use closed eyes, so it's not like he really "unlock" the move. It's not until when he's push against Niou that he truly used it out of his own will.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    On this, actually, when Fuji was against Kirihara, he was "forced" to use closed eyes, so it's not like he really "unlock" the move. It's not until when he's push against Niou that he truly used it out of his own will.
    What? No. Why have people concluded this?

    Fuji didn't get CE naturally though. He unlocked it.
    When he first played, he had to hit from muscle-memory. In fact, he was getting eaten alive by Kirihara.
    He then gradually managed to access it. He gradually began to tap into his hearing ability.
    He used it to counter blindness but it was because he himself decided to try and focus his hearing (like a gotdamn bat) and get his hearing perfect to use CE.

  16. #149
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    He still is not shown to use CE out of his own will until his match with Niou. He can play fine with closed eyes at the end of Kirihara match. But until his match with Niou, he never decide to use it in his match. Hence I say he truly unlock it to use it with his own free will in the match against Niou.

    If you disagree, show me a match between then that doesn't involve Fuji eyes going blind. That's not free will.

    Being blind and choosing not to see are two different action with whole complete mindset. No, I mean, seriously.
    Last edited by -Ken-; October 18, 2013 at 11:29 PM.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    in anime during Fuji vs Kirihara, there's a scene where Yumiko mentioned that Fuji plays according to his opponent strength. & it just against his personality to crush his opponent etc...

    if this scene is counted, i would doubt Fuji's stats especially speed & perhaps mental as well. (maybe the power stat is correct. muscle data wont lie)
    he's playing Kirihara in a fast-rally match faster than his normal play.
    http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_t...5/c216/10.html

    anyhow i still doubt Fuji's stat because he's good at hiding it. he looked cautious.
    If he doesn't let Inui take his data, i dont think he will let the coach take his data.
    my doubt is based on my understanding on the manga/anime. others may have understand in differently & it's not wrong as well.
    so, there's no strong/definite basis for my doubt as all comments above have argued.

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