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Thread: Will Yukimura leave??

  1. #76
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Niou is easily stronger than anyone without PoP equivlaent powers if he just pays more attention to who he should copy (assuming he cannot copy PoP or equivalent powers, so no Kishin aura either). He'd be able to beat Yukimura easily by copying Irie, as Irie's abilities/stats pretty much counters Yukimura's playstyle completely.
    Niou's illusion is limited by his own power. Even during his G10 match, he still doesn't show the ability to use Saiki&Hyakuren at the same time, although he clearly know how to use both individually. I don't think Niou can copy Irie.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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  3. #77
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Niou's illusion is limited by his own power. Even during his G10 match, he still doesn't show the ability to use Saiki&Hyakuren at the same time, although he clearly know how to use both individually. I don't think Niou can copy Irie.
    Yukimura says Niou can copy him back in POT when Yukimura is obviously the strongeste baseline player, so copying Irie doesn't seem out of reach. We're not talking about copying Byodouin or Oni here.

    Now of course Niou is still limited by his own skills but Irie's skill set is just a total counter for Yukimura. Yukimura does not appear to have any way to deal with WoI (he shouldn't be able to achieve 'no flaws' like Irie did). Yukimura's techniques are clearly mental-based and Irie is by far the best guy at mental game in the series so far, not counting the TnK level guys who seem flat out immune and Niou can't copy TnK anyway (yet). So even if Niou's illusion suffers from some penalty compared to real thing, copying Irie is still a better bet than anyone else.

  4. #78
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Yukimura says Niou can copy him back in POT when Yukimura is obviously the strongeste baseline player, so copying Irie doesn't seem out of reach. We're not talking about copying Byodouin or Oni here.

    Now of course Niou is still limited by his own skills but Irie's skill set is just a total counter for Yukimura. Yukimura does not appear to have any way to deal with WoI (he shouldn't be able to achieve 'no flaws' like Irie did). Yukimura's techniques are clearly mental-based and Irie is by far the best guy at mental game in the series so far, not counting the TnK level guys who seem flat out immune and Niou can't copy TnK anyway (yet). So even if Niou's illusion suffers from some penalty compared to real thing, copying Irie is still a better bet than anyone else.
    I don't think that's the case. His base stat is alter to be as close to the real thing as possible. I just don't believe Niou have enough base skill to pretend to be Irie.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  5. #79
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Philia's Avatar
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    I don't think that's the case. His base stat is alter to be as close to the real thing as possible. I just don't believe Niou have enough base skill to pretend to be Irie.
    Niou can copy anyone. He doesn't need skills. He just imitates it.

  6. #80
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukikuranoske View Post
    Niou can copy anyone. He doesn't need skills. He just imitates it.
    How the hell he copied Kabaji's strength then?

  7. #81
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukikuranoske View Post
    Niou can copy anyone. He doesn't need skills. He just imitates it.
    No, he need to have enough skill.

    He can't use ZSS back in National. He also can't use Saiki+Hyakuren at the same in the National or even at his latest G10 matxh. The perfect illusion he have done so far are Shiraishi and Kabaji. Never Tezuka.

    He's also limited by his illusion. He can only use Kabaji strength when he's in Kabaji illusion. He can't mix and match at will.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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  9. #82
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    How the hell he copied Kabaji's strength then?
    How do you want to know that his strength isn't simply on that level and he tones it down when copying other players? Konomi himself said in PP4 that the illusion is only an optical thing, so centering any explanations around that makes more sense in my opinion.

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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    How do you want to know that his strength isn't simply on that level and he tones it down when copying other players? Konomi himself said in PP4 that the illusion is only an optical thing, so centering any explanations around that makes more sense in my opinion.
    By all accounts illusionless Niou is a very weak player. I don't see why there's any reason to believe he was holding back his base strength when base Niou is pretty much no threat to anyone that matters. They even said Niou was only able to have the resolve to continously use Tezuka Phantom because he copied Tezuka, including his willpower. That is, normal Niou lacks the willpower to be willing to sacrifice his arm just for a victory (which is probably the smart thing to do). Now he probably won't get the complete stats of someone he copies, but as far as we know Irie is the person with the best mental stats so far, not counting any TnK tier characters who he can't copy anyway (his copy of Tezuka sure doesn't come with TnK), so that'd have to be his best bet if he was going to play Yukimura, a person who you clearly need strong mental stats to deal with.

  11. #84
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    By all accounts illusionless Niou is a very weak player. I don't see why there's any reason to believe he was holding back his base strength when base Niou is pretty much no threat to anyone that matters. They even said Niou was only able to have the resolve to continously use Tezuka Phantom because he copied Tezuka, including his willpower. That is, normal Niou lacks the willpower to be willing to sacrifice his arm just for a victory (which is probably the smart thing to do). Now he probably won't get the complete stats of someone he copies, but as far as we know Irie is the person with the best mental stats so far, not counting any TnK tier characters who he can't copy anyway (his copy of Tezuka sure doesn't come with TnK), so that'd have to be his best bet if he was going to play Yukimura, a person who you clearly need strong mental stats to deal with.
    For Kabaji it could have been the change in power that overwhelmed the G10 players. He could have been holding back strength as Tezuka and as Kaoz mentioned in a different thread converted his technique into power. I think Irie would be a good match for Yukimura, just like Tanegamishima.

    I had a question that I wanted to post in a thread about Yukimura. Would Atobe Kingdom work against Yukimura? Would Yukimura be able to find a counter against Atobe Kingdom? If this has already been answered please direct me to the thread. Thanks.

  12. #85
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member jimtors's Avatar
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Yukimura is the probably the strongest player in the series.. why take him out? IF i write for his character, there so many things i can do with it.. ^__^

    He's my favorite character too.. Who i'm going to watch now??? This like killing Itachi in Naruto.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  13. #86
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by floman View Post
    For Kabaji it could have been the change in power that overwhelmed the G10 players. He could have been holding back strength as Tezuka and as Kaoz mentioned in a different thread converted his technique into power. I think Irie would be a good match for Yukimura, just like Tanegamishima.

    I had a question that I wanted to post in a thread about Yukimura. Would Atobe Kingdom work against Yukimura? Would Yukimura be able to find a counter against Atobe Kingdom? If this has already been answered please direct me to the thread. Thanks.
    Based on the description Atobe Kingdom cannot be defended. The only way to stop it is to move the ball somehow (Zone, Phantom) so it can't hit the blind spot. Or if you're Oni and Byodouin who cannot be seen in the first place. That said, the ability to move the ball is really trivial in POT for the tier of players you'd expect to use AK on. It is the ability to move the ball in a meaningful way (Tezuka Zone) that is hard. But against AK you have to do is move the ball a little bit and then it'll stop it from hitting the blind spot. Of course in that case you're hitting a pretty weak shot for Atobe to return so you'll have other problems but it's still better than outright giving up a point.

    ---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

    Thought about this some more. It's clear Atobe can use his vision on the court or on the ball, but not both at at the same time. Otherwise in the game against Ryoma he could've used his vision on the ball (to neutralize the spin) and then use WoI again to hit it to the blind spot and then he can't lose. This clearly didn't happen.

    So when you see Atobe starts using AK you got to put some kind of spin on the ball that'd cause it to move when returned (which shouldn't be hard for a high tier player). Now, the spin you put is unlikely to be anything useful unless you've previous experience doing Tezuka Zone type technique, but it should prevent AK from hitting your blind spot. Hopefully you can drag the game out until Atobe can't continue using AK for whatever reason, since you're pretty much in a purely defensive mode until AK runs out.

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  15. #87
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    For some reason, Konomi has handed drastic improvement to Atobe and well... Little improvement to Yukimura.
    So realistically, Atobe VS Yukimura will go either way. Its no longer guaranteed Atobe will lose.
    Due to them having equal Technique, Yukimura won't be able to just out-rally him anymore.

    So Atobe is probably going to take Yukimura's service game.
    But Atobe hasn't been able to hit AK on his serve, nor could he do it on his serve with WoI.
    So Yukimura due to having a higher Mental can begin to breakdown Atobe's senses with long rallies on Atobe's serve.
    For some reason, having slightly higher Power is irrelevant when facing Yukimura so Atobe's +0.5 in Power which is what separates the two in total stats won't make a big difference.

    Atobe is at the level of Yukimura and Sanada now though. That 6 in Technique really can't be overlooked.

  16. #88
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Bowser's Avatar
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Yukimura says Niou can copy him back in POT
    When did he ever say that? O_O

  17. #89
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
    When did he ever say that? O_O
    "He told me he can copy either you or me" --Yukimura to Sanada
    (during Singles 2 at the Nationals Final)

  18. #90
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    Re: Will Yukimura leave??

    Atobe can use AK for an entire set in the doubles match, so if we're talking about a standard 1 set match there's no limitation to the amount of times Atobe can use AK. It doesn't matter even if Yukimura's slightly better at rallying. As long as he doesn't score winners every time it wouldn't mater because we know hitting the ball to a specific spot is pretty darn trivial for guys of their level, so Atobe can still hit the ball to the spot he sees with AK even while out-rallied and then he'd score by definition. Although Yukimura can attempt to also put Zone like spin on the ball, the fact that he also has no previous experience with these techniques means it'd be for purely defensive purposes only and it's hard to see him outlasting Atobe either.

    The only uncertainty is can Yukimura's mental techs work on Atobe before he gets totally destroyed by AK. Since Atobe recently overcome Mental Assassin, I don't think that's likely. If we go by the original premise that Yukimura needs a mental edge over the opponent, then this is impossible because he can't have any mental edge while at best fighting to stay alive against AK.

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