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Thread: the true villian of naruto

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Well, t'was itachi's opinion towards his clan. He stated that the uchiha are pathetic and a useless clan. So if the man of that caliber had that kind of opinion to his clan, then there's no doubt that he's telling the truth.
    Would you please show me those particular pages? I remember Itachi criticising his own clan, but not nearly as drastic as you make it sound. I don't really remember where it was and can't find those pages to doublecheck if you are exaggerating or not.

    I suspect it was in his fight against Sasuke, in which case those words would be nothing else then acting. He was playing the role of a power obsessed lunatic and was badmouthing his own clan to fuel Sasuke's hatred, since he knew of his Uchiha pride.

    But regardless of any of that, you can honestly call this man pathetic?

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/590/13

    Betrayed by his own son and about to be executed... yet there's no hatred, no ill-feelings. All he shows is dignity and compassion towards his son. I would actually call his behaviour respectable and admirable.

    Since there aren't much other showings from the Uchiha Clan except for those comming from our usual Sasuke/Itachi/Obito/Madara clique I can't understand how someone would jump to the conclusion the whole clan had to be pathetic, useless, weak and whatever else you might throw in there.
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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    oh, right. The intensity of Tobirama and Uchiha made me forget that this was ultimately about the villains, not necessarily whether Tobirama was the true villain. In any case though, one could argue Danzou being the worst villain ever even if his goal/desire was to protect Konoha.
    yes u can call Danzou villian. i write only about Orochimaru, Tobi and madara because they are active right now. also i write madara's name because of his power u know in end hero need to fight strong opponent and madara is one

  3. #33
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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Orochimaru isn't acting like a villain now though, he's helping Sasuke and isn't even intent on attacking Konoha despite the ripe chance. And I'm not sure if you can call Madara true evil since he's become evil from the events in his life. It's not like he was power hungry or wanted to kill Hashirama until he thought Tobirama would treat Uchiha badly. Though thinking about it, , Tobirama, Izuna, and Madara were paranoid, but Madara let his paranoia get the worst of him.

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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    Would you please show me those particular pages? I remember Itachi criticising his own clan, but not nearly as drastic as you make it sound. I don't really remember where it was and can't find those pages to doublecheck if you are exaggerating or not.

    I suspect it was in his fight against Sasuke, in which case those words would be nothing else then acting. He was playing the role of a power obsessed lunatic and was badmouthing his own clan to fuel Sasuke's hatred, since he knew of his Uchiha pride.

    But regardless of any of that, you can honestly call this man pathetic?

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/590/13

    Betrayed by his own son and about to be executed... yet there's no hatred, no ill-feelings. All he shows is dignity and compassion towards his son. I would actually call his behaviour respectable and admirable.

    Since there aren't much other showings from the Uchiha Clan except for those comming from our usual Sasuke/Itachi/Obito/Madara clique I can't understand how someone would jump to the conclusion the whole clan had to be pathetic, useless, weak and whatever else you might throw in there.
    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-228-17/...apter-223.html

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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Thanks for the pointers, I wouldn't have thought to look so far back.

    It is like I've already said though: Its Itachi acting.

    Look a few pages further: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-229-16/...apter-224.html

    He's just feigning arrogance and cruelty to take on the role of a villain to make Sasuke hate him. It can't be taken as a true reflection of his feelings towards his clan.
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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Acting? I really doubt that. Look here

    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-227-20/...apter-222.html

    And if you read the entire chapter, you'll know that itachi didn't said that just to make sasuke hate him.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-227-21/...apter-222.html

    This scan shows that the uchiha isn't really loyal to the konoha. All they want is for the uchiha's sake and uchiha's pride. Their power and capacity are just limited because all they think is their clan.

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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Acting? I really doubt that. Look here

    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-227-20/...apter-222.html
    "I'm just carrying out my duty in order to reach the high of my capacity... I've lost all hope for this pathetic clan."

    That part is clearly Itachi feigning arrogance, just like here: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-229-16/...apter-224.html

    Quote Quote:
    And if you read the entire chapter, you'll know that itachi didn't said that just to make sasuke hate him.
    Keep in mind he already had his orders, already made his plans for Sasuke and still had to keep up an act as if nothing ever happened. The psychical turmoil he was going through was immensurable. As a result he was talking cryptic and even his own father noted how he's been acting strange.

    The part where he rambles about his superior capacity? Thats him setting his plans into motion to turn himself into a despicable individual in his brothers eyes.

    The part where he lectures his clan mates about how they've lost sight of whats important because they cling to something as small as their clan? Thats his anger and desperation venting. He disagreed with the choices his clan has made and he already knew what would happen that night but of course he couldn't say anything.

    A few pages later he falls on his knees and apologizes for everything he said. Imagine yourself in his situation and how you would have felt, try to empathise with him. He was emotionally torn apart... its like if you get into strife with someone you love and in your anger you spout out something which you later regret.

    Itachi clearly loved his clan and held them dear, otherwise he wouldn't have shed tears of blood killing them off.

    Quote Quote:
    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-227-21/...apter-222.html

    This scan shows that the uchiha isn't really loyal to the konoha. All they want is for the uchiha's sake and uchiha's pride. Their power and capacity are just limited because all they think is their clan.
    That much we already know. But that still doesn't make them pathetic.

    Itachi's philosophy of "The needs of many outweight the needs of a few" is very admirable, but at the same time extremely harsh.

    Fugaku wanted to protect his people, the people he loved. He couldn't bear them being mistreated. He was willing to fight for the rights of his people, even if it meant risking the lives of other people he has no emotional attachment to.

    The fact the Uchiha got isolated and quarantined made all of that even worse, because if a bunch of people gets penned up together like that its only natural they will grow strong bonds between each other while becoming increasingly detached from anyone else.

    Itachi on the other hand was a pacifist, he thought self-sacrifice was a persons duty for the sake of maintaining peace above all else. In his opinion the clan should just have endured any kind of mistreatment, as long as it serves to maintain peace. He was even willing to go so far and kill his own beloved parents for that sake.

    Could you have done the same? If you had to chose, risking the lives of lets say 10 random people you don't know or seing your mother, your wife, your child or whoever else you hold dear suffer, what would you pick?

    Its a terribly hard choice... and honestly one can't condemn you for whatever you may pick, which in turn leads to why I still don't see how the Uchiha are supposed to be pathetic, weak and useless (to say it with your words).
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  8. #38
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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Orochimaru isn't acting like a villain now though, he's helping Sasuke and isn't even intent on attacking Konoha despite the ripe chance. And I'm not sure if you can call Madara true evil since he's become evil from the events in his life. It's not like he was power hungry or wanted to kill Hashirama until he thought Tobirama would treat Uchiha badly. Though thinking about it, , Tobirama, Izuna, and Madara were paranoid, but Madara let his paranoia get the worst of him.
    Orochimaru is given us as bad guy. when he come back he just help sasuke . he didnt do anything bad but he also didnt do anything good so till this all over we have to call him villain. if u read my last post u will see i choose madara more for his power then evilness

  9. #39
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    It's not like he was power hungry or wanted to kill Hashirama until he thought Tobirama would treat Uchiha badly. Though thinking about it, , Tobirama, Izuna, and Madara were paranoid, but Madara let his paranoia get the worst of him.
    There really isnt any true Villain in Naruto anymore. I hoped that Tobi and Madara would fill in Oros shoes and even he at the moment is a dissapointment.
    Haha, you cant blame Madaras paranoia etc on Tobirama, all you can blame is his Uchiha blood
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by suraj5898 View Post
    Orochimaru is given us as bad guy. when he come back he just help sasuke . he didnt do anything bad but he also didnt do anything good so till this all over we have to call him villain. if u read my last post u will see i choose madara more for his power then evilness
    He's doing something good - he's helping Sasuke, potentially turning him into a good person. He's not a villain anymore because he's done nothing bad. Ambiguous, sure, but not a villain.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaymizzo View Post
    There really isnt any true Villain in Naruto anymore. I hoped that Tobi and Madara would fill in Oros shoes and even he at the moment is a dissapointment.
    Haha, you cant blame Madaras paranoia etc on Tobirama, all you can blame is his Uchiha blood
    Naw, you can blame it on Tobirama, cuz if Tobirama wasn't all "Uchiha be cray cray," Madara wouldn't have felt the Senju would do something bad to the Uchiha.

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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    He's doing something good - he's helping Sasuke, potentially turning him into a good person. He's not a villain anymore because he's done nothing bad. Ambiguous, sure, but not a villain.


    Naw, you can blame it on Tobirama, cuz if Tobirama wasn't all "Uchiha be cray cray," Madara wouldn't have felt the Senju would do something bad to the Uchiha.
    helping Sasuke does not make him good because in part 2 Sasuke is villain and right now he is asking questions to hokage so he can decide what ever he become good or bad.

    look like to u except Tobirama every one is good , have good resone to become bad or Tobirama is resone they become bad

  12. #42
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Sasuke isn't villain right now, he's not doing anything bad. He and Orochimaru right now are either ambiguous or unknown, as Sasuke can either go good or evil based on whether he likes what he hears from the hokage.

    ... Selective reading? I never said Tobirama was the only bad person, and I've named someone worse than Tobirama. I even defended Tobirama and thought people were goin too over the top accusing him of being horrible.

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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Sasuke isn't villain right now, he's not doing anything bad. He and Orochimaru right now are either ambiguous or unknown, as Sasuke can either go good or evil based on whether he likes what he hears from the hokage.

    ... Selective reading? I never said Tobirama was the only bad person, and I've named someone worse than Tobirama. I even defended Tobirama and thought people were goin too over the top accusing him of being horrible.
    about Sasuke if u read my last post its
    HTML Code:
    helping Sasuke does not make him good because in part 2 Sasuke is villain and right now he is asking questions to hokage so he can decide what ever he become good or bad.
    its same thing u r talking

    and about Tobirama u said
    HTML Code:
    Naw, you can blame it on Tobirama, cuz if Tobirama wasn't all "Uchiha be cray cray," Madara wouldn't have felt the Senju would do something bad to the Uchiha.
    here u said Tobirama is resone for madara becoming bad

  14. #44
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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    "I'm just carrying out my duty in order to reach the high of my capacity... I've lost all hope for this pathetic clan."

    That part is clearly Itachi feigning arrogance, just like here: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-229-16/...apter-224.html



    Keep in mind he already had his orders, already made his plans for Sasuke and still had to keep up an act as if nothing ever happened. The psychical turmoil he was going through was immensurable. As a result he was talking cryptic and even his own father noted how he's been acting strange.

    The part where he rambles about his superior capacity? Thats him setting his plans into motion to turn himself into a despicable individual in his brothers eyes.

    The part where he lectures his clan mates about how they've lost sight of whats important because they cling to something as small as their clan? Thats his anger and desperation venting. He disagreed with the choices his clan has made and he already knew what would happen that night but of course he couldn't say anything.

    A few pages later he falls on his knees and apologizes for everything he said. Imagine yourself in his situation and how you would have felt, try to empathise with him. He was emotionally torn apart... its like if you get into strife with someone you love and in your anger you spout out something which you later regret.

    Itachi clearly loved his clan and held them dear, otherwise he wouldn't have shed tears of blood killing them off.



    That much we already know. But that still doesn't make them pathetic.

    Itachi's philosophy of "The needs of many outweight the needs of a few" is very admirable, but at the same time extremely harsh.

    Fugaku wanted to protect his people, the people he loved. He couldn't bear them being mistreated. He was willing to fight for the rights of his people, even if it meant risking the lives of other people he has no emotional attachment to.

    The fact the Uchiha got isolated and quarantined made all of that even worse, because if a bunch of people gets penned up together like that its only natural they will grow strong bonds between each other while becoming increasingly detached from anyone else.

    Itachi on the other hand was a pacifist, he thought self-sacrifice was a persons duty for the sake of maintaining peace above all else. In his opinion the clan should just have endured any kind of mistreatment, as long as it serves to maintain peace. He was even willing to go so far and kill his own beloved parents for that sake.

    Could you have done the same? If you had to chose, risking the lives of lets say 10 random people you don't know or seing your mother, your wife, your child or whoever else you hold dear suffer, what would you pick?

    Its a terribly hard choice... and honestly one can't condemn you for whatever you may pick, which in turn leads to why I still don't see how the Uchiha are supposed to be pathetic, weak and useless (to say it with your words).
    My point is, if itachi killed his entire clansmen even though they're just fighting for their freedom and mistreatment, then there's something wrong with itachi, but, if itachi killed his clansmen because of their foolish ideas/plan, then there's something wrong with the uchiha.

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    Re: the true villian of naruto

    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-405-4/n...apter-400.html
    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-405-5/n...apter-400.html

    In a sense you could say there was something wrong with Itachi. He was traumatised by war and thus believed that such conflict must be avoided at all cost. Although I don't think it would be fair to condemn him for that, since like I already pointed out, there really isn't a "right" choice here and atop of that Danzou didn't leave him much choice anyway.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/590/9
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