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Thread: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
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    Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    In the recent chapters we come to see that Ryuken was to marry Masaki but for obvious reasons that did not come to be, most of us look at the maid to be Uryuu's mother, if this was the case how could Uryuu be considered stronger or strong by Opie, considering it was stated that the maid was not of pure Quincy blood.

    But also with the recent chapters it could be safe to say that the VR seem to have outdated or invalid information, especially if they went by the history of Ishida as a Family that prides itself on not mixing their blood with anything other then Quincy blood.

    The VR seem to have more credible information on Soul Society then they do the "last quincy"
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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Haddrell's Avatar
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    Re: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    First of all, we don`t know how “pure” the maid is: She might be nearly 100 % Quincy. On the other hand, I don`t think Uryuu has Blut unlike Ichigo who got it from Masaki.

    All this “You have no talent” talk from Ryuuken makes more sense now but at the same time, I am sure this is prejudice and ideology speaking. I am reminded of the Harry Potter series. “Mudblood” Hermione was one of the strongest and most talented wizards and she taught “pure” blood Malfoy a lesson.

    Therefore it is likely that the VR have a better understanding what power level a Quincy really has. It seems they abandoned this racist nonsense a long time ago (and replaced it with racism of a different kind) but I doubt it that they are still paying attention to birth records. What counts is what a born Quincy can actually do or what potential he has.

    Uryuu has never been given the chance to realize his full potential, not to mention reach it.

    To answer your question - there are a few possibilities:

    The first one is natural growth by training and gaining more experience. This is what Uryuu has always done and it shows. There is already a big difference between Uryuu`s powers and abilities at the beginning of Bleach and today. (Well… what Tite Kubo has shown us so far).

    The second one is, enabling Uryuu to develop “Blut” himself. He was definitely not born with that ability unlike Ichigo. Ichigo could give it to him by a blood transfusion.

    The third is helping Uryuu to break a possible block in his mind that limits his powers. Unohana removed such a block from Zaraki. Uryuu`s block would have different causes. He has been told all his life how worthless, useless and talentless he is.

    The fourth is, Uryuu doesn`t even know what a Quincy with full abilities CAN do. Ichigo has seen the huge variety Shinigami can achieve and knows what to aim for. Uryuu never had that chance. I can imagine, he would already learn a lot more just from observation. We have seen that Uryuu didn`t have a lot of raw power at the beginning and maybe, compared with the most powerful Vandenreich Quincies, also today. But he nevertheless managed to master very complicated and rare techniques.

    It could be that Uryuu will never be a powerhouse like Ichigo but he would make up for it with a high level of Quincy Kidou skills Ichigo would never master.
    A bond that transcends their feelings and lies; the willingness to put aside differences for the other's safety; an undying respect and caring for each other. Black and White; Yin and Yang; Shinigami and Quincy.
    Kurosaki Ichigo and Ishida Uryu

    By Saiyan5ninetail

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    Re: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    You know, talking about "how pure" the maid could be holds quite the double meaning here

    On a more serious note: Uryuu was portrayed as a genius back when he had more spotlight. Around his first appearance, he killed masses of hollows; he did what Souken called "peak of power for a quincy", completed the Sanrei glove training, and in Letzt Stil mode, he completely pwned Mayuri (on the contrary, normal SR need Vollstandig, Blut and bankai stealing to be able to beat captains).
    If he's not a pureblood and if purebloods are significantly stronger than other quincy, that'd just further support the depth of his talent, because his achievements could be contributed to him as an individual and not just his legacy.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member conn-man's Avatar
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    Re: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    I think yhe only reason kirge thought this is because of the Ishida reputation. Uryuu may not have been closely monitered, its just that the name is synonymous with great skill. I think uyruu has a bit of growing and power unlocking to do soon.

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    Re: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    My guess is that kirge and vandenreich simply had an expectation for ishida to be extremely strong by now. Stronger than kirge means ishida is by vandenreich's expectations supposed to be on the level with a stern rittern. I guess the core of the issue is why exactly ishida would be expected to be that strong to begin with.

    To be honest I have my doubts about the pure blood thing being relevant. Its extremely unlikely uryu is a pure blood quincy to begin with anyways and it does seem SS anhialated the remaining true quincy 200 years ago.

    I guess it comes down to what ishida has shown as a quincy. Mayuri was the first to suggest ishida is a genius among quincy given all the techniques he could use. Then apparently he had a significant increase in strength by the HM arc thanks to ryuken who seemingly trained him. Seeing ishida's appearance during the fullbring arc it does not seem as if he has grown significantly over the past 2 years though. He got easily taken by surprise by ginjo and tsukishima and overall it did seem like ginjo with ichigo's fullbring was that much stronger than him.

    Perhaps there is a stage in quincy training in which quincy get a quick powerup? Quincy powers rely on absorbing reishi from the air so perhaps at some point there is stage of training in which a quincy can suddenly increase the amount of reishi he can control by releasing perhaps some sort of limiter or perhaps there is some form of quincy training which gets that same result. Anyways, one way or another it does seem like ishida is well due a quick powerup which will effectively push him to captain class power well above what we saw of kirge (who in all fairness did not seem to be that much of a beast considering he never really did anything at all against ichigo).

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    Re: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    I think Uryu was meant to be strong all along. He just eventually ran into tougher opponents so didn't get to shine as much. The only time he actually seemed weak to me was in the Fullbring arc in which Tsukishima took him down with one slash (apparently Uryu forgot something called Rasotengai).

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    Re: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    Well, the only captain class opponent he actually had to fight was grants if I recall. He did have a short skirmish with ulquiorra but that hardly counts at this stage. I am of the idea that he was well above the VC class during the HM arc however as he is now he would never hold a candle against a proper captain class enemy.

    Rasontengai was not an issue when he was attacked by ginjo and tsukishima. As we saw the wound he took was enough to make him instantly unconscious. He cannot use rasontengai while unconscious. Even if he had used the technique on his last moments of lucidity it wouldn't have mattered.

    ---------- Post added at 10:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 AM ----------

    Another thing, even if rare what are the odds of a human surviving a hollow attack? At large the human in question would not be able to see, hear or feel the attack coming and would take a reiatsu strengthened attack with no reiatsu of his own. Basically the number of humans who survive the rare hollow attacks which do manage to get by SS radar should be rather low.

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    Re: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, the only captain class opponent he actually had to fight was grants if I recall. He did have a short skirmish with ulquiorra but that hardly counts at this stage. I am of the idea that he was well above the VC class during the HM arc however as he is now he would never hold a candle against a proper captain class enemy.

    Rasontengai was not an issue when he was attacked by ginjo and tsukishima. As we saw the wound he took was enough to make him instantly unconscious. He cannot use rasontengai while unconscious. Even if he had used the technique on his last moments of lucidity it wouldn't have mattered.
    I was referring to when he went to help Ichigo fight Ginjo. One slash and Ishida was down. Why didn't he use Rasotengai? He was wide awake the entire time:

    http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/459/9

    Who's grants? uryu beat Mayuri but he had to resort to Letz Still something he may not always have the privelage of using.

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    Re: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    ishida is one of the few remaining PURE blooded quincies, both his mother and father were quincy

    Spoiler show


    it is my assumption that juha bach must have mated and had several offspring with ordinary humans in an attempt to revive the quincy race after the shinigami did their best to extinct the race to prevent the balance of souls from being thrown out of whack

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    Re: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    Actually we have no reason to believe uryu would qualify as a pure blood quincy. As far as we know the last two were masaki and ryuken and masaki is as far as we know not uryu's mother. Its extremely likely that uryu's mom was not pure blooded or a quincy at all. Its not like future ryuken would concern himself over pure blood quincy stuff. He made it clear he has no interest in quincy affairs and did not want uryu to get in that line of work to begin with. So unless uryu's ability to get a boring deskjob with a salary is affected by the purity of his quincy blood there is no reason whatsoever for current ryuken to even care about that.

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    Re: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    By what's been revealed in the last couple of chapters it looks like pureblood Quincy were always interbred with each other. Presumably that would mean the 'halfbloods' were also paired amongst themselves, so as not to waste the precious pureblood... seed... We know that Ryuken is a pureblood. We don't know about Uryu, but the fact that Ryuken has labelled himself as the last Quincy would suggest that Uryu's mother was not pure, and therefore neither is he. However, if it's true that purebloods were only usually paired with other purebloods, that still makes Uryu an anomaly, having more Quincy in him than most halfbloods. That said, purebloods must have been introduced to the impure bloodlines every so often, otherwise they'd have been getting less Quincy with each generation, to the point of not even being Quincy any more. So I doubt Uryu is unique, there must have been other children born of both pure and impure parents.

    Anyway, I think the Vandenreich's interest in Uryu is simply down to his raw potential, regardless of his lineage. He's shown that at his very peak he can make a joke of a Bankai, when he embarrassed Mayuri in SS, and I'm sure he's been training diligently since the HM arc (and he was no weakling at that point, either. He did beat a Privaron Espada, albeit with the tools and cunning rather than raw power).

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/470/15

    He'd already progressed to the point of having a solid Quincy bow by the FB arc, which from what we've seen demonstrates having more skill and power as a Quincy. Whilst the Vandenreich grunts have the standard energy bow, the Sternritter (and Ryuken) have weapons that take solid physical form. So he's obviously progressed since the HM arc, and likely since the Fullbring arc too.

    Quilge was no joke, but Ichigo was making sport of him with Shikai, before either of them went all out. Then he proceeded to make sport of his Vollstandig with Bankai. Whilst I don't expect Uryu to be at Ichigo's level, there's a wide enough margin between Ichigo and Quilge for him to fit into.
    Last edited by NoOneInParticular; April 09, 2013 at 10:55 AM.

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    Re: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    Quote Originally Posted by devstauk View Post
    In the recent chapters we come to see that Ryuken was to marry Masaki but for obvious reasons that did not come to be, most of us look at the maid to be Uryuu's mother, if this was the case how could Uryuu be considered stronger or strong by Opie, considering it was stated that the maid was not of pure Quincy blood.

    But also with the recent chapters it could be safe to say that the VR seem to have outdated or invalid information, especially if they went by the history of Ishida as a Family that prides itself on not mixing their blood with anything other then Quincy blood.
    This seems like pure and simple speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    By what's been revealed in the last couple of chapters it looks like pureblood Quincy were always interbred with each other. Presumably that would mean the 'halfbloods' were also paired amongst themselves, so as not to waste the precious pureblood... seed... We know that Ryuken is a pureblood. We don't know about Uryu, but the fact that Ryuken has labelled himself as the last Quincy would suggest that Uryu's mother was not pure, and therefore neither is he. However, if it's true that purebloods were only usually paired with other purebloods, that still makes Uryu an anomaly, having more Quincy in him than most halfbloods. That said, purebloods must have been introduced to the impure bloodlines every so often, otherwise they'd have been getting less Quincy with each generation, to the point of not even being Quincy any more. So I doubt Uryu is unique, there must have been other children born of both pure and impure parents.

    Anyway, I think the Vandenreich's interest in Uryu is simply down to his raw potential, regardless of his lineage. He's shown that at his very peak he can make a joke of a Bankai, when he embarrassed Mayuri in SS, and I'm sure he's been training diligently since the HM arc (and he was no weakling at that point, either. He did beat a Privaron Espada, albeit with the tools and cunning rather than raw power).

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/470/15

    He'd already progressed to the point of having a solid Quincy bow by the FB arc, which from what we've seen demonstrates having more skill and power as a Quincy. Whilst the Vandenreich grunts have the standard energy bow, the Sternritter (and Ryuken) have weapons that take solid physical form. So he's obviously progressed since the HM arc, and likely since the Fullbring arc too.

    Quilge was no joke, but Ichigo was making sport of him with Shikai, before either of them went all out. Then he proceeded to make sport of his Vollstandig with Bankai. Whilst I don't expect Uryu to be at Ichigo's level, there's a wide enough margin between Ichigo and Quilge for him to fit into.
    This does sound plausible. The only problem is if we take the FB arc into account. Uryuu seemed so weak throughout it all. He was overwhelmed by Tsukishima's speed a number of times and was beaten twice. Perhaps we're all underestimating them though. Was Tsukishima's speed on par with Byakuya? That would certainly make Uryuu seem less weak, although he was still 1 hit KO'd twice..

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    Re: Uryuu Ishida, what would make him stronger then Opie

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma View Post
    This seems like pure and simple speculation.



    This does sound plausible. The only problem is if we take the FB arc into account. Uryuu seemed so weak throughout it all. He was overwhelmed by Tsukishima's speed a number of times and was beaten twice. Perhaps we're all underestimating them though. Was Tsukishima's speed on par with Byakuya? That would certainly make Uryuu seem less weak, although he was still 1 hit KO'd twice..
    Well, Ishida has a human body, which as we know does not take hits very well unlike Shinigami and Arrancar, or Quincy who have Blut. That may have more to do with him being one hit-KO'd than his level of strength, but both times he was really just caught off guard. First time Tsukishima distracted Ishida and Ginjou came from behind and slashed him, second time Ishida was focused on Ginjou attacking Ichigo and got cut from behind by Tsukishima. I would say Tsukishima is about as fast as Byakuya, he was able to keep up with him. Maybe not quiet as fast as Byakuya, but fast enough to fight with Byakuya without getting speedblitzed. Tsukishima was definitely the fastest member of Xcution, except for maybe Ginjou? I don't know, he never really had any impressive speedfeats.

    The whole pureblood thing probably does have a lot to do with Ishida not being as strong as he should be, but also it looks like after Soken died he pretty much taught himself, so he also lacks training IMO. And I get the feeling that Ryuuken has been hiding a lot of things about the Quincy from Ishida in order to protect him.
    Last edited by exacta; April 14, 2013 at 10:21 AM.

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