Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (9/22/14 - 9/28/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: One Piece 761 by cnet128 , Bleach 597 (2)

View Poll Results: Which hokage do you want to see in action the most?

Voters
372. You may not vote on this poll
  • Shodai Hokage (Hashirama)

    62 16.67%
  • Niidaime Hokage (Tobirama)

    102 27.42%
  • Sandaime Hokage (Hiruzen)

    31 8.33%
  • Yondaime Hokage (Minato)

    177 47.58%
New Reply
Page 58 of 65 FirstFirst ... 8 48 56 57 58 59 60 ... LastLast
Results 856 to 870 of 962

Thread: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions

  1. #856
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Vatican City State
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    33,130
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by toussaintac View Post
    In that, it states any missing-nin is considered a criminal. So Sasuke was one as soon as his willingly left the village without authorization. I do wonder, under what circumntances, is it okay to leave the village? Jiraiya and Tsunade were allowed to leave. In Jiraiya's case, I think he was doing some spying on akatsuki and some other things for the village. Can't remember what Tsunade was doing.
    I'm guessing like with Sasuke, the hokage granted leniency. Though in Sasuke's case, Tsunade expected Naruto to bring him back while Hiruzen knew Jiraiya was still protecting Konoha in his own way. Not sure about Tsunade, but Hiruzen knew her, and she never joined an enemy. Helps that both are pretty famous and fought for Konoha plenty of times, I guess.

    Basically, Naruto is the only reason Tsunade didn't have Sasuke apprehended or killed, and Tsunade is the only reason why Naruto didn't have to worry about Konoha sending assassination squad after Sasuke.

  2. #857
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted toussaintac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,655
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Well you should read my words and take them for what they are before comparing them to things I said in the past
    I did. I was just giving you a hard time.
    "We hunt you down without mercy; Hunt you down all nightmare long."

  3. #858
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Poke-france.
    Country
    United States
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,824
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by da_ni View Post
    We can’t compare Tsunade’s or Jiraya’s departure with sasuke’s… For all we know, Jiraya was absent but always spying for the village, he kept an eye on Akatsuki, and always thought for the well being of the village, and Tsunade had her own problems, dealing with Dan’s death and everything… But Sasuke’s case is different, he left the village with the intention of joining a missing nin, a criminal, a wanted men, with the intentions of letting him do whatever he wanted with him, just as long he would gain enough power to take revenge on Itachi. He deliberately joined someone who had just been recently involved in the assassination of the village’s Kage, had tried to destroy said village, and had intentions on pursuing that goal… He betrayed the village when he left the village and associated himself with someone who was plotting against it, he didn’t just left the village to go on spring break or a joy ride… That’s his first betrayal…
    You missed said mention of the Ame Trio in my mention of Jiraiya. In that specific case, we know that Jiraiya wasn't spying or doing anything for the village, instead he was training children from another village. So it is pretty valid to say he was doing his own thing. And how exactly is Tsunade ditching the village because her boyfriend died any better? That's just as selfish as Sasuke pursuing his own revenge, who made it clear he was simply using Orochimaru and planned to take him down when the time came.


    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    This post screams of contradiction. He handed his ass over to a criminal. He practically made him his mentor. That in itself makes him a criminal. He was basically aiding him in plans. A criminal is also the one who "holds the ladders". A basic principle of life. He was a criminal since the moment of thinking about joining Orochimaru.
    He went over to Orochimaru with the intention of using him and then betraying him right from the early beginnings. He didn't aid Orochimaru in the slightest. And he clearly wasn't a criminal, if the orders given first were to bring him back, not eliminate him.

    Spoiler: Impossibility;3393549 show

  4. #859
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fighting for the Living
    Country
    The Wall
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,898
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    He went over to Orochimaru with the intention of using him and then betraying him right from the early beginnings. He didn't aid Orochimaru in the slightest. And he clearly wasn't a criminal, if the orders given first were to bring him back, not eliminate him.
    And that is all irrelevant.

    Sasuke was the last member of the Uchiha clan loyal to Konoha. He left them, and joined their enemy, thus giving their enemy a huge weapon in the Sharigan. Sasuke was a shinobi, a tool, an asset , that cannot be ignored.

    The only reason the orders were to bring him back was because Tsunade was lenient because he was Naruto and Sakura's teammate. As soon as Danzou was Hokage, Sasuke was made a missing-nin like he rightfully was, and was ordered to death.

    Whether or not Sasuke had intentions of helping Orochimaru is irrelevant. When you abandon your post in the Narutoverse without permission you become a missing-nin and are thus subject to execution. That is manga law that cannot be changed or argued, so from that standpoint alone Sasuke was a criminal worthy of death.

    Now, if you want to argue he won't be put to death because of Naruto new tree-hugging lets hold hands philosophy that is somehow rubbing off on the entire planet, so be it. But according to the original rules of Naruto and the ninja system, Sasuke is guilty of abandonment and treason. He is a missing-nin, and is thus supposed to be put to death.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  5. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
    Like 2 Member(s) likes this post
  6. #860
    Banned 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    Croatia
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,076
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    He went over to Orochimaru with the intention of using him and then betraying him right from the early beginnings. He didn't aid Orochimaru in the slightest. And he clearly wasn't a criminal, if the orders given first were to bring him back, not eliminate him.

    Spoiler: Impossibility;3393549 show
    I don't care about his subjective plans on the matter because they're irrelevant. Konoha considers him a criminal because he committed a criminal act. His personal view on the matter is not important if Konoha's objectivity doesn't allow those actions. Konoha didn't know that he was "using" Orochimaru. In their point of view, he was socializing with a dangerous criminal which makes him an accomplice. Much like in real life. All arguments are nullified.

  7. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  8. #861
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Naruto2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,668
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Chapter next week right??


  9. #862
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Poke-france.
    Country
    United States
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,824
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Sasuke was the last member of the Uchiha clan loyal to Konoha. He left them, and joined their enemy, thus giving their enemy a huge weapon in the Sharigan. Sasuke was a shinobi, a tool, an asset , that cannot be ignored.

    The only reason the orders were to bring him back was because Tsunade was lenient because he was Naruto and Sakura's teammate. As soon as Danzou was Hokage, Sasuke was made a missing-nin like he rightfully was, and was ordered to death.
    Ah, but the whole "ninjas simply being tools" isn't the way regular Konoha sees their shinobi.

    But we have other cases of ninjas doing their own thing without being made into missingnins, not to mention that if Tsunade didn't have any wiggle room, she surely would have been called out on it by the council, who were not her biggest fans. And Danzo didn't make him a criminal til they learn of his actions in Kumo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Whether or not Sasuke had intentions of helping Orochimaru is irrelevant. When you abandon your post in the Narutoverse without permission you become a missing-nin and are thus subject to execution. That is manga law that cannot be changed or argued, so from that standpoint alone Sasuke was a criminal worthy of death.

    Now, if you want to argue he won't be put to death because of Naruto new tree-hugging lets hold hands philosophy that is somehow rubbing off on the entire planet, so be it. But according to the original rules of Naruto and the ninja system, Sasuke is guilty of abandonment and treason. He is a missing-nin, and is thus supposed to be put to death.
    Gotta disagree with that. As previously mentioned, we've seen quite a few Konoha ninjas "abandon" their post for their own reason without being called out on it. Every known missingnin aside from Sasuke that we know of all committed crimes before the abandonment of their village, mostly leaving because they committed a crime. So I'm not sure the rules are that set.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    I don't care about his subjective plans on the matter because they're irrelevant. Konoha considers him a criminal because he committed a criminal act. His personal view on the matter is not important if Konoha's objectivity doesn't allow those actions. Konoha didn't know that he was "using" Orochimaru. In their point of view, he was socializing with a dangerous criminal which makes him an accomplice. Much like in real life. All arguments are nullified.
    Yeah, the criminal act of attacking Kirabi. That's the reason he was made into an international criminal. Before that, he wasn't considered or viewed as a criminal, so that really doesn't hurt my point.

  10. #863
    Banned 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    Croatia
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,076
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Yeah, the criminal act of attacking Kirabi. That's the reason he was made into an international criminal. Before that, he wasn't considered or viewed as a criminal, so that really doesn't hurt my point.
    Some things are common sense and don't need to be pointed out.

  11. #864
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Wonderland 8
    Country
    Bahamas
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,940
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Choosing to not do something is an action, an action that in this example is an actual criminal act. I don't know about in England, but here in the US, that's called depraved indifference and you can go to jail for it. And as mentioned before, the negative effect is your allowing said person to die. In most situations, the dying person is less likely to die if someone helped. Stopping bleeding, preforming CPR, calling 911, the effects are evident.
    As I've already said, the choice the individual makes isn't an action against that dying person that brings about a negative effect. But , if you're going to stick to this, your argument continues to fail by virtue of the fact that that is what Sasuke did. So to be honest, either way makes little difference at this point.

    Quote Quote:
    No, I'm saying that you're trying to make some case about his loyalties changing, and there's nothing to show that his feeling for Konoha changed. He didn't join Orochimaru because he hated Konoha, he joined because like most Uchiha's, his clan and getting revenge for them was of higher importance. He showed no hatred of Konoha til joining Obito.
    What you said was that Sasuke was always neutral. That's what you said. He wasn't. So his loyalty changed. No one has suggested that he joined Oro because of hatred toward Konoha. What has been suggested is that he ceased to be loyal. Your counter to that was that he was always neutral, and I showed that that wasn't the case. So yes his loyalty changed.

    Quote Quote:
    First off, we had been previous speaking of VotE, so forgive me for getting the wrong situation. And secondly, that was still not him purposely setting out to murder Naruto. Naruto and co came to him, and Sasuke was admittedly acting on a whim. Really, if he had truly intended to kill Naruto, he wouldn't have been stopped by Sai when even Yamato acknowledge his speed. Putting your arm around a person while having a conversing is not really showing a desire to kill.
    Nope, were my mentions of Sai's intervention insufficient to make it clear that the attempted murder of Naruto was at Oro's lair. So Sasuke decided to kill Naruto on a whim, does that make it less of an attempted murder. And now you're going to say that Sasuke never truly intended to kill Naruto despite the fact that Sai, Yamamoto, and eventually even Orochimaru had to stop him. Are you reading what you're claiming? As we go on, you get more and more ridiculous with these claims. Putting an arm around a person isn't an attempt on their life. Following that arm with an attempt to put a sword through them shows that, yes, you want them dead. You cannot be serious at this point.

    Quote Quote:
    How is the threat of war not a negative effect? That's ridiculous. By that logic, plotting a coup or murder is perfectly fine. I'm not attempting to wiggle out of anything. And that's not the same. Orochimaru didn't need Sasuke to come to him to simply take his body or eyes. He could have done so regardless of any choice Sasuke made.
    The threat of war isn't a negative effect, it is a potential outcome. Plotting a coup, or murder, isn't perfectly fine. I'm not sure how you've tried to link the correctness of a coup plot and the possibility of war in the scheme of things, considering that I'm not arguing that Sasuke actions were fine. I'm arguing that by your the reasoning you put forth, Sasuke didn't betray Konoha through those actions. I think you might need to have your logical flow checked. It doesn't follow. So Sasuke decided to give Oro a freebie, how is this helping your argument? And the same way that Oro could've gotten Sasuke, Tobi could've gotten Bee. You've yet to meet your standard for betrayal.

    Quote Quote:
    He attacked Kirabi in an attempt to get the Hachbi to give to Obito, who promised him the power to destroy Konoha and who later used said spoils of battle to awaken the Juubi, a viable threat to everyone including Konoha. It was clearly an action against Konoha in both intend and purpose. What's embarrassing is how you seem to want to disregard actual plot points.
    I've yet to see you make this an action against Konoha. He attacked Kumo. He acted against Kumo. So, it wasn't an act against Konoha. It might've led to something that would strengthen his hand against Konoha, but it wasn't an act against Konoha that produced a negative effect for Konoha. So....what now? It's amazing that you're now simultaneously attempting to argue that an attack on Bee, a Kumo shinobi, was a betrayal of Konoha, but an attack on Naruto, a Konoha shinobi, wasn't. This is just...wow.

    Quote Quote:
    Did Sasuke ever make a decision to cease being loyal to Konoha before joining Obito? And what part of "as a child" don't you get? I'm not talking about adult Kabuto, I was talking about his childhood actions. And Itachi was protecting Konoha for his brother's sake. That was made quite clear. Anyway, Sasuke's intentions were to aid the village to, by eliminating a missingnin, and his loyalties didn't change until much later. Also, none of them sacrificed of themselves for the village. They all were literally bullied into it.
    Yes, the moment he decided to join Oro, obviously. And once again, why is Kabuto, a known traitor, being used as support for the idea that Sasuke wasn't a traitor? How is this even remotely effective as an argument. So the whole Will of Fire spiel about Itachi, that was about what? Sasuke's intentions weren't to aid the village. You argue above that Sasuke was neutral toward the village. So how is it that he is even considering his actions to be in aid of the village? Your arguments are just everywhere, and they just don't make any sense whatsoever. In a single post, you contradict yourself without any hesitation. And it just isn't worth it for me to touch on the risks taken and sacrifices made by the likes of Sai, Nono, or Itachi himself for Konoha.

  12. #865
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Remy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Montreal
    Country
    Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    729
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    I don't care about his subjective plans on the matter because they're irrelevant. Konoha considers him a criminal because he committed a criminal act. His personal view on the matter is not important if Konoha's objectivity doesn't allow those actions. Konoha didn't know that he was "using" Orochimaru. In their point of view, he was socializing with a dangerous criminal which makes him an accomplice. Much like in real life. All arguments are nullified.
    Yeah, same goes for Itachi. The biggest Hero Konoha ever had.... Criminal too.

  13. #866
    Banned 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    Croatia
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,076
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by Remy View Post
    Yeah, same goes for Itachi. The biggest Hero Konoha ever had.... Criminal too.
    Are you being sarcastic right now?

  14. #867
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted gnut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    st.pete...tampa bay,usa
    Country
    United States
    Age
    40
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,656
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by Remy View Post
    Yeah, same goes for Itachi. The biggest Hero Konoha ever had.... Criminal too.
    itachi was known as a criminal by everyone but hiruzen/elders...

    he was doing the same thing as jiraiya...tracking down orochimaru....but itachi being considered a criminal was perfect cover to infiltrate such associations like akatsuki

    ---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 PM ----------

    just wanted to add...it was his choice to walk away from the village...he could have stayed and hiruzen could have pulled the wool over the villages eyes...

    let the citizens know about the uprising and say itachi was the one who saved them...itachi chose to leave

  15. #868
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Vatican City State
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    33,130
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    And Danzo didn't make him a criminal til they learn of his actions in Kumo.
    I thought he didn't make Sasuke into a criminal until he got power. Tsunade and Naruto were the only reasons why Sasuke wasn't branded as a criminal and marked for death by Konoha. Had Danzou been in power after Hiruzen's death, he'd have automatically labeled Sasuke as a criminal. I think same for anyone who didn't cater to Naruto's needs.

    I think Jiraiya could have also saved Sasuke because of the info he got about Orochimaru's transfer jutsu. If nothing else, joining Orochimaru would have gotten Sasuke listed in the bingo book.

    Quote Quote:
    Gotta disagree with that. As previously mentioned, we've seen quite a few Konoha ninjas "abandon" their post for their own reason without being called out on it. Every known missingnin aside from Sasuke that we know of all committed crimes before the abandonment of their village, mostly leaving because they committed a crime. So I'm not sure the rules are that set.
    How many of them joined the enemy though? Itachi and Orochimaru did, but Itachi was the only one who was genuinely good.

    Not sure which ninja left because of crime or after committing a crime. Orochimaru was considered an enemy but likely too powerful for anyone to approach. Same with Itachi.

    Quote Quote:
    Yeah, the criminal act of attacking Kirabi. That's the reason he was made into an international criminal. Before that, he wasn't considered or viewed as a criminal, so that really doesn't hurt my point.
    No, that was what got him recognized as an Akatsuki. He became an international criminal because he joined Akatsuki. Going after Bee got him attention, and seeing him in Akatsuki cloak trying to capture a jinchuuriki made them realize he was with Akatsuki.

    I think if Sasuke wasn't affiliated with Akatsuki, he wouldn't have been labeled an international criminal.

  16. #869
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted sarutobi_sensei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Country
    Portugal
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,432
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    If everyone is supposed to be an ally after the war (or more so than before), Sasuke's international crimes will be just as much of a hindrance to being forgiven as his Konoha crimes. In fact they should be even more glaring, but I COMPLETELY see Naruto finally playing the "you guys tried to kidnap my mom AND my current lady' when the matter of Sasuke's attack on Bee and murder of Jay is brought up.
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
    itachi was known as a criminal by everyone but hiruzen/elders...

    he was doing the same thing as jiraiya...tracking down orochimaru....but itachi being considered a criminal was perfect cover to infiltrate such associations like akatsuki

    ---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 PM ----------

    just wanted to add...it was his choice to walk away from the village...he could have stayed and hiruzen could have pulled the wool over the villages eyes...

    let the citizens know about the uprising and say itachi was the one who saved them...itachi chose to leave
    He chose to leave and we know the reasons why. He wanted the Uchiha's name to be maintained. To be preserved as the Great Uchiha Clan.

    That's what he always tried to preserve, his clan's honor.
    Last edited by sarutobi_sensei; April 19, 2013 at 10:10 AM.

  17. #870
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted gnut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    st.pete...tampa bay,usa
    Country
    United States
    Age
    40
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,656
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto 627 Discussion / 628 Predictions | No Naruto this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by sarutobi_sensei View Post
    He chose to live and we know the reasons why. He wanted the Uchiha's name to be maintained. To be preserved as the Great Uchiha Clan.

    That's what he always tried to preserve, his clan's honor.
    I believe he could have stayed...him and sasuke could have kept their clan's honor alive...it's no different...he left sasuke to do it all by himself....

    I agree...that's what he believed...but this is where his age is a factor...his drastic resolve towards sasuke(grow up and punish me)...he could have stayed in konoha and got the same results...

    my point was...after the massacre he was given the mission of tracking down orochimaru....which he did within akatsuki...

    I love itachi...but he did some assbackwards shit when it came to his brother...idk


New Reply
Page 58 of 65 FirstFirst ... 8 48 56 57 58 59 60 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts