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Thread: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

  1. #601
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by mikasaaa View Post

    Wow, Isayama has more power over the anime than I imagined. Anime!Annie is even more canon!
    Time to think up new theories about her!
    Annie is here for the fanservice. Well, I don't think it will change anything. It's just a smile.

    EDIT: Actually that power is a double edged sword. I don't really care about Annie's smile but for Marlo I found it really, really bad. I think they asked him to find something and buy time, but even if they didn't ask. He could be overthinking and try to do something to improve his story. Annie and Mikasa's smiles change nothing but for me, Marlo isn't as likable as in the manga. But now, it's the canon Marco.
    Last edited by Demonspeed; September 15, 2013 at 03:44 PM.
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    Here's a translation from someone, who is not me :O.

    Quote Quote:
    Translation (by yours truly youkoofthelovespot) of the notes:

    An embarrassed smile/laugh made by a juvenile (eighth grade syndrome) character I’ve made up till now who’s been blamed/pointed at and has sadly been turned upon.

    She’s feeling relief/release from the need to keep lying.

    And becoming a normal sixteen year old girl.

    The guilt, loneliness, and fear.
    This, to me, makes me even more upset about the story changes and omissions when it comes to Annie. When she offered to train Eren, they connected on a level, they both enjoy fighting. Eren knew she was lying when Annie said she was forced to do it and it was worthless. Neither of them had to hold back when they were training together. Eren was free to be himself in a way and Annie didn't have to lie about anything.

    ARGH!

    Also, laugh in the anime, way too much. Didn't seem like it was out of embarrassment or relief. Should've been a chuckle without the blushing. Blushing was the tipping point into creepyland.
    Last edited by NuPope; September 15, 2013 at 03:22 PM.

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  4. #603
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    All expressed by a near-total loss of control, and yeah, on top of that there are no tears, and the blush and the nature of the laugh are way over the top so rather than looking hurt or embarrassed, it comes off more sexual/fanservice-y, or like a "crazy bitch," as some people on another site that don't read the manga (but claim they liked the scene) said, than anything else to me. ._.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Georgie's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    this doesn't change anything at all. It makes things worse to me
    In the anime she doesn't come off as what Isayama is now saying or drew. She still looks like she's having a drunk orgasm. Whatever.

  7. #605
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Yumpo's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    You can say the anime kind of exaggerated Annie's blush to make it fanservice-y. Isayama's blush drawing feels a lot a different and there's that crying in panel B, which wasn't added. .

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted THM Nindo's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by kannazuki View Post
    All expressed by a near-total loss of control, and yeah, on top of that there are no tears, and the blush and the nature of the laugh are way over the top so rather than looking hurt or embarrassed, it comes off more sexual/fanservice-y, or like a "crazy bitch," as some people on another site that don't read the manga (but claim they liked the scene) said, than anything else to me. ._.
    I agree.
    I could still see Annie laugh and cry and then smile like she was shown in the sketch.

    But her yandere laugh and blushing was just out of character.


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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by THM Nindo View Post
    I agree.
    I could still see Annie laugh and cry and then smile like she was shown in the sketch.

    But her yandere laugh and blushing was just out of character.
    Wrong.

    Isayama blogged THAT is the REAL Annie.
    Quote Quote:
    “the character she’s built for herself, sadly opening up, laughing shyly”)
    "Now there’s no need to tell lies anymore.. Like a normal 16 year old girl, Guilty, lonely, fearful.")

    
In short, I thought Annie should show herself completely bare, as she really is.

    Whole Text:
    Quote Quote:
    There seems to be many questions about this so I will answer.

    “Annie’s reaction” in episode 23 of the anime was planned by me.

    

In the scene where Annie confesses her true self, even after it released in book format, I thought I wanted to do something more like this. I had some pretty strong regrets about it, so I planned it like this (for the anime) ↓



    “I like the feel of the original scene, but…” 
I spoke to the director and ended up sending him this rough sketch.

    Though… when I looked at it again, I felt like the plan I made was a little much.
 An expression that conveys “sadness,” “shyness,” “openness,” mixed with “guilt,” “lonesomeness,” and “fear”… No, it’s excessive…

    (Translator’s Note: The sketch has some notes like “A: Laughing. B: Crying. C: Mischievous.
    (Arrow pointing from A to C, another note saying “the character she’s built for herself, sadly opening up, laughing shyly”)
    "Now there’s no need to tell lies anymore.. Like a normal 16 year old girl, Guilty, lonely, fearful.")

    
In short, I thought Annie should show herself completely bare, as she really is. 
After everything she did in her monster form, I didn’t want her to be seen as just a bad guy. I wanted to give the sense that she is an “average person.”



    And I thought the anime’s art, production, and performance was

    

SUPER EXCELLENT!!



    The scene, with its gradual tension, fit my image for it so well that my stomach was churning.

    

I also like the first half of the original scene. And the script. Marlo’s experiences became part of the script. They were more than just simple words in the original. I think they were more persuasive and quite wonderful.



    Also when Marlo got help from Annie and Hitch, who he looks down on, and his increased frustration. I liked that part too.



    By the way, if there was a Marlo character song I think “The Choice is Yours” by Rhymester would be fitting. This song was playing on Jounetsu Tairiku (music show), which I watched before Shingeki started. This made me unusually happy.
    "Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice."

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted THM Nindo's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice View Post
    Wrong.

    Isayama blogged THAT is the REAL Annie.


    Whole Text:
    Yeah, I read that.
    The part that struck me is when he say “the character she’s built for herself, sadly opening up, laughing shyly”.

    This is exactly the opposite of what we got.
    She wasn't sad (no tears) and it certainly was not a shy laugh (she was almost hysterical).

    He might have said that the anime was great, but you know how japanese are, even if he wasn't happy with it, he would never say it publicly.

    Anyway, what's done is done.
    This scene is basically canon now...
    Last edited by THM Nindo; September 15, 2013 at 09:55 PM.


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  13. #609
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    As far as I'm concerned, people can take their pick and both are "canon" in their own way. Unless Isayama personally goes so far as to have earlier volumes changed upon reprinting to reflect the anime version precisely, what's in the manga still exists and if readers prefer it, they have a right to stick with it. No need to get hung up on the fallacy of authorial intent (AKA the "intentional fallacy"). What's actually found in a text is often more important and (in my opinion) more valid than what a writer might later want to change it to. (If he even did want them to go as far as they did with that. If he clams up about this topic forever from now on, as opposed to repeatedly defending the anime version, I will remain suspicious of whether he even did want it. Not that it matters in the end, but it did drop my estimation of him as someone I thought was a surprisingly good writer of female characters, once I saw those comments.)

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Yumpo's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by THM Nindo View Post
    Yeah, I read that.
    The part that struck me is when he say “the character she’s built for herself, sadly opening up, laughing shyly”.

    This is exactly the opposite of what we got.
    She wasn't sad (no tears) and it certainly was not a shy laugh (she was almost hysterical).

    He might have said that the anime was great, but you know how japanese are, even if he wasn't happy with it, he would never say it publicly.

    Anyway, what's done is done.
    This scene is now basically canon now...
    This. Even if I had read the translation and compared Isayama's draft to the anime, I really get a different vibe from the anime. And yes, I do believe that Japanese people would never say publicly how they're not really happy with it unless they really are sassy. But oh well. Like you said, what's done is done. T^T

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Utsune's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    To be fair, despite knowing Annie is a much deeper character than she appears, we still haven't seen her whole story yet. It's a bit too early to judge whether she's "out of character" or not. Of course I know where this criticism comes from, and perfectly reasonable, but I want to give Annie a chance to reveal the depths of her heart in the coming story... maybe then, we would come to say, "Hey, this isn't so bad after all."

    I think the part that really strikes me very deeply is - and I bet a lot of us have always overlooked - "Like a normal 16 year old girl. Guilty. Lonely. Fearful." Isayama's comment on the picture actually puts periods/full stops at the end of each of the descriptive words, meaning he really, really is trying to stress the level of impact of these feelings on Annie. From this perspective, her letting off some steam or whatever you call that really isn't unreasonable at all. And truth be told, she has shown hints of guilt. She has shown loneliness. She has cried.

    Spoiler show


    In that flashback that was for some reason not shown in the anime (Annie offering to teach Eren,) that was a majorly defining moment. She talks like a normal girl, she jokes around like a normal (maybe slightly awkward) girl. For a brief second, she smiles as if she just had the tiniest yet happiest thought in her mind. I don't think Isayama is actually very good at drawing faces, but that particular smile of hers far surpasses all other smiles you could ever find in your typical shounen manga. The smile shows nostalgia, the smile shows melancholy, the smile shows relief, the smile shows realisation, the realisation of how you can find happiness in the tiniest of things (i.e. Eren using her father's technique.) Yes, she isn't normal, not normal by your usual standards, because of her past, because of her current situation. But her feelings and emotions are all part of what being human can offer.

    Please remember, she's this 16 year old girl who keeps memories of her father through her technique, she cries where nobody sees, she shuts herself from people because, knowing that they are from very very different worlds, she takes the rational approach thinking there's not much point (hence Eren thinks she looks down on people. But this probably isn't an accurate description of her since, in both the anime and manga one way or another, she opens up Maruro's mind to what being normal or being weak is all about.) If you ask me, she is by far the more mature of the lot, meaning she's too mature for her age, and when her age doesn't match, she is bound to get repercussion if not handled properly... and in this case, the stress finally gets her. (Note that this stress comes from interaction with people, dead or alive.)

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  18. #612
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Yumpo's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    @Utsune
    Yes, I believe that's what Isayama really intended on that scene. But how the anime did it, it really feels different. You'd have to have a great mind or have to read Isayama's words to know what that scene actually meant. Most people would just think of this as some kind of H-hot-scene fanservice-y or a crazy b*tch's laugh. Really, that's one of the things that first came into my mind. The voice acting does not help.

    I'd rather think of the rough draft as the canon one instead of the anime T^T.

    Spoiler show
    Last edited by Yumpo; September 15, 2013 at 11:04 PM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member teioh's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    This is so typically JAPANESE.
    Isayama defends the Anime cuz he MUST defend the Anime.

    For me the real Annie is the one shown in the manga, not the one that was discarded by the same author (doing the RIGHT choice) and not the one depicted in the anime for commercial reasons. The same reasons that have made magazine picture like this:
    Spoiler show

    With a HAPPY BOBBIE SMILEY ANNIE ready for fan service hyping.

    Spoiler show


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  21. #614
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    MAL
    Quote Quote:
    Isayama has said several times that he is consulted all the time when there is new content in the anime and as a result he is able to add things that he did not think of or could not add in the manga. And at one time he even said that he now considers the anime to be a more complete version of his story, so anybody who wants to call things in anime not canon is just kidding himself. I for one does not like the idea of the investigation team gathering the bodies in anime because I cannot see how it can be easily done without loss of life with so many giants around (like in the anime) but I have to accept this as canon because the author is directly involved in it.
    "Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice."

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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Anime Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by teioh View Post
    This is so typically JAPANESE.
    Isayama defends the Anime cuz he MUST defend the Anime.

    For me the real Annie is the one shown in the manga, not the one that was discarded by the same author (doing the RIGHT choice) and not the one depicted in the anime for commercial reasons. The same reasons that have made magazine picture like this:
    Spoiler show

    With a HAPPY BOBBIE SMILEY ANNIE ready for fan service hyping.

    Spoiler show

    Seriously, that first picture is so unlikely to happen everyone know it's not canon. It's just commercial. And now I think I see the difference between that smile and her crazy face after reading Isayama's explanation.
    Annie is wearing a mask, she is not really bad and was trying to hide her sadness. In the manga, her face is really scary, she seems to regret nothing at all and is just surprised by Armin's deduction, she looks like a typical villain. It's as if she was always wearing a mask but she wasn't supposed to. In the anime the smile shows that she is freed, she doesn't need to wear a mask anymore, she can express his feelings and it makes her happy.
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic172142_25.gif

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