Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (9/8/14 - 9/14/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
He does have haki and with his ability he could really do exceptional things with it but ultimately the fact remains that observation haki is by far less useful than armor haki. Obervation haki has insane applications but where haki truly shines, the most useful one is still armor haki which enhances offense, defense and allows you to attack logia. To be fair, enel had observation haki over luffy and even then he did not actually win against luffy. Enel's fruit would perhaps be enough to earn him that bounty but if pre time skip pre gear 2 luffy was able to match enel in physical strength then I don't really see how exactly enel would defend from the VAs who at large do far exceed even gear 2 luffy's speed pre time skip.
---------- Post added at 12:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 PM ----------
The only reason ace was not killed on the spot by the world government was because of the huge show they wanted to make out of the thing, they wanted the war with WB. Ace provided them with a golden opportunity to fight the strongest man alive in their turf on their terms.
@Fox666 You may want to re-read or re-watch ImpelDown and Marineford because that's not the reason why they went to war.
The Navy wanted a big show where the world sees them take down an extremely strong and significant pirate.
Otherwise they could have cuffed him at the ankles and wrists with Seastone and killed him the instant BlackBeard brought him to them.
It wasn't that they wanted Ace simply dead, they wanted the World to see them take out various significant Pirates and also take down the already dying WhiteBeard.
They kept Ace alive and gave him an amount of days til he is killed so that the WhiteBeard pirates had enough time to come and fight.
They simply had not idea Monkey D. Luffy and Portgas D. Ace were step-brothers and underestimated how many Pirates looked up to WhiteBeard like a Father or Uncle.
Look at it in relation to other Pirates.
Ace was 3rd in Command at WhiteBeard's crew, a crew that controlled loads of islands across the seas.
Luffy leads the Strawhats who don't own any island. EL was taken out due to a BusterCall as far as the Marines are willing to reveal.
Luffy was helped greatly in ID. At Marineford he would have died like a dog without help.
He beat Gecko Moriah but Bartholomew Kuma kept it quiet so that can't count.
Since Trafalgar Law has 440mil, Eustass Kid as 470mil, it means Luffy's strength is not too much for 400mil.
Luffy could go to 500mil but 600 is ridiculous since nothing suggests he has become a whole new level above Kid & Law in power.
You mention Sanji, but Sanji to the WGovt isn't a FirstMate or of any massive relevance in power, and they might not necessarily know that Sanji is in fact extremely close to Zoro in strength.
He's not like Zoro who is a highly established criminal and a Supernova.
You also have to remember if Pekoms is 330mil, and he's just some member of the Big Mom Pirates... Think about the 2nd in Command's Bounty, think about those above him since I'm pretty sure those above him would have even higher bounties.
Big Mom's Firstmate would have a bounty of what could be even 500mil since it would have to be significantly above Pekom's bounty.
You giving Luffy a 600mil bounty is a little ridiculous. Luffy and the Firstmate of a Yonkou are not the same right now.
For example, Benn Beckman I expect would win against Luffy in a fight right now. They shouldn't have the same bounty.
@kkck you're kidding right?
Enel lost because Luffy was made of rubber and he lacked therefore his moves didn't work.
Not everybody in the world is made of rubber.
Enel VS Stainless for example, Enel zaps the living daylights out of him constantly, sure Stainless gets a few slashes with his sword in due to Haki, but if Enel stands far away and launches lightning bolts crashing onto Stainless and all around Stainless I don't see Stainless dodging because he isn't faster than Lightning.
The only reason Luffy and the StrawHats didn't die in Skypiea is because Luffy is a Rubber man.
They purposely gave many days until the Beheading.
Well, strength alone would not justify an increase in bounty but that is not the point I was trying to make. Luffy got to 400 mil when he had no strength whatsoever to speak of. In other words the world government gave him a 400 million bounty based on what he did and instigated, not because luffy's strength was a threat. My point was that on top of whatever gave him his original 400 now he has huge strength, strength that could actually hurt the world government's military power depending on how things turn out. Would luffy necessarily be that much stronger than his rookie peers? Not necessarily however the strength he has now is IMO worth a couple hundred million.
Well, yeah, enel lost because luffy was made of rubber but that is at large my point. Abilities are without a doubt important but strong fighters in the new world do have more things than that going for them. Generally people who matter will have a good combiantion of actual fighting skills (technique, haki, strength, stamina, speed) and a powerful ability. Enel only had the latter. If enel had new world worthy speed, strength, haki or stamina he would have pumeled luffy at that time (or pre time skip gear 2 luffy for that matter) without much effort regardless of luffy being rubber. Seriously, luffy increased his power a decent bit from the time he fought enel up until the timeskip and even that strength, speed and stamina was not worth a damn to people with true power.
I don't think enel could just zap his way to victory any more than kizaru could just laser down anyone he runs into easily to be honest. Kizaru attacks at the speed of light and even then we see fighters being able to oppose him (a few of WB's commanders, rayleigh).... Electricity is slower than light, enel is as a whole significantly weaker than kizaru and the VAs are no joke in the least (I don't think the strength vergo or smoker have is strange among the VAs to be honest). Maybe enel could do that to the least relevant VAs but there is no way the VAs who actually matter are going to have a hard time with enel at all IMO.
A friend of me told me once that if Enel has been on the seas as a Pirate he would have be one of the Emperors now. And I think he's right : with the Haki of Combat, he would be awsome. He is very fast, he have a lot a skills and is strong.
But Luffy is made of rubber and as Sanji said, he have an endless life force. And he is a complete dumbass who loves his friends and will protect them no matter what.
That's why his bounty is so high (he did all for his friend, also shaking the world each time), and that's only before Thriller's Bark's ark that he gest to 300M.
So after all the things he did (attacking Impel's Down and surviving Marineford), the governement decided that 300M was too low for such a threat.
Reasons of Luffy's 400M : strenght (he really is, and even more now after 2 years of training with Raleigh) and all the offense he did to the Marines and the world governement.
So when he'll have defeated Dofla and maybe the CP0, and then Kaidou or Big Mom, he'll reach 500 then 600 I think.
You still need to acknowledge that Enel was far from average. Enel was strong. Enel IS strong.
He can't if big impact moves since his heart will kickstart itself, he can move around the field at the speed of Lightning, that's FASTER than Luffy without doubt.
He can travel massive distances much faster than Luffy.
He has one of the Haki's, I'm sorry but he and the VA's would have a good fight.
There is no way in hell Momonga is going to brush Enel off like fodder. It would be a great fight.
Its not like Momonga can keep up with Enel if Enel leaps far back and attacks only from long distance.
Remember how Sanji got ended instantly? Enel is pretty strong.
I understand your point but like I said, we can't hand out a bounty higher than 550mil just yet since we don't know the bounties of Benn Beckman, Shanks, Big Mom, Marco etc.
Benn Beckman will kill Luffy imo.
I think its a little too soon.
Doflaminga right now I still expect to be above Luffy and I would appreciate if Dofla lasted a few more arcs before he is defeated.
The fear that the Marines had of Shanks's men implies Benn Beckman is the real deal.
Remember he is the right-hand man of the man who rivals Mihawk. Mihawk being ridiculously strong.
Last edited by Airgrimes; April 27, 2013 at 12:25 PM.
Well, enel's ability does allow him to move that fast however its not like he can just blitz people that easily. If he could then pre time skip luffy and even current luffy would not actually be a threat to him as he could simply dodge whatever luffy can throw at him. Then again, enel did not even have the physical capacity to deal with even pre gear 2 luffy.
Enel only has observation haki which is far less useful in a fight than armor haki. Enel has no way to defend himself from haki attacks and a VA would easily far exceed the meager physical capacities of pre time skip pre gear 2 luffy. Maybe not all admirals could pull of a fight against enel (his fruit is still exceptionally powerful) however there are plenty of them who the manga has shown to be relevant on all accounts(verga was shown as damn strong and I doubt he is the strongest of the VAs). Sanji getting defeated instantly by enel is irrelevant by now. The VAs should be about as strong as sanji is or stronger (at leas the relevant ones) right now. I doubt current sanji would be unable to cut the distance between enel and himself and I doubt he would be hit so easily.
Just saying but momonga was never actually displayed as weak, he just had to take extreme measures to not fall for the trap of hankcock's fruit which takes advantage of lust (and who can blame him? Boa is able to take advantage of lust and on top of her being quite beautiful she does show some skin/cleavage... the fruit itself might even have a part in the targets rising lust).
but it doesn't matter wheter lightning is faster than luffy or than VAs' soru: kizaru's light should be the fastest thing,but oda reduced his powers to the point that ben beckman's bullet is faster than him . physics doesn't apply in this universe, nay,it keeps on changing as the author pleases.
Lightning are at about half of the speed of light.
---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 AM ----------
@kkck I gave Sanji getting taken out instantly as an example for when Enel lands a hit. He was the real deal. You may be right I suppose perhaps he was just Rear Admiral now that I think about it, but the only thing holding him back from VA was armor Haki and that is pretty much a fact.
I still think its crazy to say he wasn't that strong.
Its not like his attacks wouldn't land.
I see do still see Enel beating devil-fruitless VA's like Stainless atm.
I would say this hardly depends on what they will do from now on.Quote:
If they just hide along their way like some pirates do, and not getting involved in trouble, nothing will rise. But yeah thats absolutely unlikely for straw Hats ^^
And if they're attacking the new Marine HQ their bounties could skyrocket to endlessness depending n how much damage hey cause.
You cannot bet how their bounties will increase just by strengh alone. Dangerousness is a master indicator ever since. So its really hard to guess where it will go.
But i guess for the SHC you can assume that there will be updated Wanted posters soon.
Even if you cant tell what ammound of bounties they will have, i believe that you can nevertheless find some rules for the bounties of SHC:
As the Captain, and that being the leader of all the things the SHC does, Luffy will always be the one with the highest bounty from the SHC.
As the 2 hands of Luffys Crew, standing alwys right behind him, also in power and toughness, Sanji and Zorro, but Zorro > Sanji, their bounties will be always the highest after Luffys bounty, because they handle the Strongest Enemies after Luffy. For the next Bounty increase i think Sanjis bounty will increase more than Zorros in proportion to his current Bounty. And for Sanji i think they will keep this same digit thing so his Bounty may increase to numbers like 111 Mio or 222 Mio. I personally belive it will be 222 Mio berry bounty for Sanji next time.
Then the highest Bounties will have Nico Robin and Franky. Nico Robins Bounty wont rise as much as Frankys will, maybe Nico Robins wont even rise, but Franky surely will increase much. Maybe to 88Mio (having the same digit tradition.)
Usopp, Nami, Brook and Chopper are hard to predict.
Usopp aka Sogeking, will be the hardest to think of, because maybe there will be 2 Wanted Posters of him in the Future. One being Sogeking, and the other as the new one as Usopp. Or if he fights for real next time, and he will again act as sogeking, then only sogekings bounty will rise. Depends on it.
Nami has some new special abilities, but what would she do? Hard to see her doing something so special that she will increase much in the nearest future.
Brook, well, maybe because of his popularity and his influence to the crowd. (Sabaody) His Bounty will increase a little bit. A new Wanted picture will come in handy, because he now looks "a little bit different" than 50 years back ^^ And i gues a new nickname will also come in handy.
And Chopper, either being still the 50Berry joke, or next time he will show us what he can and doig so mouch trouble that his increase will be the biggest one of all of the Straw Hats in proportion to his 50. But i can also see his 50Berry will still the Joke there. so something like 50.000.050Berry.
I thought back then that being back to action as sabaody and threating the Marine much by simple and fast defeating 2 Pacifista their Bounties would increase right away, and that they see their new wanted posters when coming back from FI. But for now, no wanted posters were shown. I also can see Sanjis rising because of his interactions with the G5 Corps and him being able to repell Vergo at that time. Even when it was a Hit and Run tactic to protect them. He wanted to cause fear to the Marine and his actions at Punk Hazzard sure made an impression to the G5 Corps. Thats why i assumed 222, as the same digit tradition and being the fairl developed ammount would be a good prediction for him. And with him being 222 i would say Zorro will be at least 240 (Double the ammount from before).
For the rest i must say that they have to come in action before anithing will rise. So we will see about it later.
I would expect Zoro's bounty to be just off of Killer's bounty from Kid's crew. Like it was before.
Kid & Killer are just an ass-hole version of Luffy & Zoro.
Only due to their ass-hole behavior to the general public they earned higher bounties.
You have to remember, Zoro is probably recognized as the First-Mate of the crew I'm pretty sure Kuma was able to notice that in his meetings with the SH's and reported back, along with Smoker and his interactions with the SH's.
So Sanji's bounty will never reach Zoro's. Just like how Sanji fought Jabra at EL, Sanji is destined for 3rd place in the crew.
Luffy & Zoro are meant to somewhat parallel Roger & Rayleigh.
Considering Luffy received 400mil after his actions at Marineford, and after all this Kid is only at 470mil, Law only got 440mil, its pretty much impossible to get given a 600mil bounty at this current moment. He will have to do something more.
Maybe after this crazy arc that is happening now ends and Luffy, Zoro & Co do some crazy stuff.
I dont think their bounty will increase very much... they just sorta stayed on an island place thingy and just trained... soo sorta the same standards as the giants... the bounties are still active, but havent really been touched