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Thread: Bleach 536 Discussion

  1. #151
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member DraMas26's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    well, after having received the confirmation that masaki was a skilled quincy,it was clear that she couldn't ahve died because of a fucking hollow like grand fisher. I bet there will be some other quincies involved,maybe connected to the vandenreich. Juha bach's reference to ichigo as his son must be wrong, but it looks like he really knows everything about him and masaki...
    Masaki is no longer a Quincy.

    Urahara himself said she can no longer go back to how she was before. Thus now she's just a human.

  2. #152
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member bleach fan 101's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by DraMas26 View Post
    Masaki is no longer a Quincy.

    Urahara himself said she can no longer go back to how she was before. Thus now she's just a human.
    he may not have meant it like that, he may just be referring to her having an inner hollow that he can't remove
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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    Maybe the Vandenreich attempted to kidnap Ichigo to convert him, they recently tried it so unless they didn't know about him when he was a child, why not?

    For all we know GF could have been manipulated to appear at that certain spot anyway.

  4. #154
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member PLfighter's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Notak View Post
    Maybe the Vandenreich attempted to kidnap Ichigo to convert him, they recently tried it so unless they didn't know about him when he was a child, why not?

    For all we know GF could have been manipulated to appear at that certain spot anyway.
    They didin't now becouse urahara he is quite good in hiding raietsu
    they didin't now about masaki becouse ishida family juha bach is quite similar like voldemord but wizard from h.p find solucion to hide h.p and other.
    Convert ichigo to quincy or Vandenreich high unlikly they more will be experiment to make self yourself more like ichigo to be stronger
    They have similar complex like aizen and to brake tabu of pure blood to get stronger and use holov power.

  5. #155
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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by DraMas26 View Post
    Masaki is no longer a Quincy.

    Urahara himself said she can no longer go back to how she was before. Thus now she's just a human.
    Yup, because she can't be pure Quincy and can only be Quincy with inner Hollow.

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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    Could someome explain to how exactly isshi's reitasu was keeping at bay Ichigo's hollow ? I don't mean how they connect(since we don't know yet), what I mean is that it was said a very short while ago that ONLY opposite power's can cancel each other out and it was said that opposite of hollow is HUMAN not shinigami, which SHOULD mean that ONLY human can keep at bay hollow not shinigami, and since Ichigo was already human there was NO reason for isshi to keep at bay hollow, actually his shinigami power has NOTHING to do with hollow power since it CAN'T keep at bay ichigo's hollow(since they aren't opposties), he should have regain his shinigami power after Masaki died and not after Ichigo's hollow got stronger, with makes no sense.

    I would be VERY grateful if some could answear me question

    ps. sorry for bad english
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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    The same way it worked for Masaki. Ichigo isn't the son of a human and shinigami, but of a quincy and gigaied shinigami (however that works...)

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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    I suppose we can assume that when the Hollow passed to Ichigo it was still under the effects of Isshin's human spirit keeping it in check, though I'm not sure how that works. I'm also wondering if the Hollow transferred to Ichigo at his birth or Masaki's death. Either way, perhaps the 'thread' that was binding Isshin's soul to Masaki's stayed connected to the Hollow even when it was no longer in her, if you see what I mean.

    I don't know, though. The rest of Ichigo's powers are apparently independent of the Soul Bond, otherwise Isshin's returned Shinigami powers would have negated Ichigo's Quincy ones, which are only manifesting now. I guess since the Hollow soul was originally an independent being, it's slightly different.

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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodan View Post
    I think I remember in Ichigo's explanation to Rukia (in the "Memories in the rain"?) he stated that he couldn't remember what happened to his mum, he just remembers seeing the girl by the river (GF), running to the girl and then darkness......... then Masaki laying dead. This brings me two theories...

    What if Ichigo was the one that killed Masaki? It is plausible that on encountering GF, Ichigo's self-defence instincts kicked in and the inner hollow rushed out to protect him or more importantly itself. Like the incident with Ulquirra and Ishida rushing in, Masaki could have inadvertently got in the way and suffered the consequence. Ichigo snaps out of it and is himself again to see his mother dead.

    My second thought is that his explanation of the events reminds me of Tousen's Bankai...... the complete absence of the senses might explain why he "blacked-out" and made Masaki a much easier target.

    I apologize if I'm just rehashing old theories.

    Found the page http://www.mangareader.net/94-473-15...hapter-19.html ...... Although now that I look at her, there is a real Aizen-esque signature feel to her wound, which would lean more towards the Tousen/Aizen theory.
    I would say that theory is not plausible.
    Ichigo had no powers as a kid other than being high spec.
    Rukias powers gave him his first taste of power, and at that time there was no hollow.
    His hollow powers didnt show up until after uraharas training.

    ---------- Post added at 06:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Culaio View Post
    Could someome explain to how exactly isshi's reitasu was keeping at bay Ichigo's hollow ? I don't mean how they connect(since we don't know yet), what I mean is that it was said a very short while ago that ONLY opposite power's can cancel each other out and it was said that opposite of hollow is HUMAN not shinigami, which SHOULD mean that ONLY human can keep at bay hollow not shinigami, and since Ichigo was already human there was NO reason for isshi to keep at bay hollow, actually his shinigami power has NOTHING to do with hollow power since it CAN'T keep at bay ichigo's hollow(since they aren't opposties), he should have regain his shinigami power after Masaki died and not after Ichigo's hollow got stronger, with makes no sense.

    I would be VERY grateful if some could answear me question

    ps. sorry for bad english
    I dont think it was directly keeping it at bay, because ichigo had no powers other than a high spec human at first.
    both his shinigami and hollow were dormant.

    It was not until the shattered shaft that both woke up, and not until a little while later that the hollow became active, trying to take control.
    also, The only reference so far to reishi string was between isshin and masaki. ichigo as far as I can tell never had one.


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  11. #160
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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    Ichigos new weapon

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  13. #161
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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, but at least the hollow transferring from masaki to ichigo will be an important plot point... Its a fact it happened, we just need to learn how and why. It does not necessarily have to be the thing that killed her but something in the following flashback has to be related to the fact that the hollow somehow ended up within ichigo which has to be either masaki dying because of the hollow leaving her or the hollow leaving her because she was dying... I guess it is plausible the hollow transferred to ichigo when he was born though....

    If the hollow did transfer to ichigo when he was born, then perhaps that can also be related to masaki's death. If that happened it would mean masaki was a pure quincy once again. Perhaps vandenreich would not be too kind to a quincy marrying a shinigami and spawning little monsters.
    That is still waaaay to early to claim as fact, we don't know for sure yet.
    What you call fact may be likely, but there are alternative satisfying explanations.
    Such as the original explanation, that Ichigo is simply a human with shinigami powers, resulting in him having a hollow side. Ichigo never had his soul sealed in the Soul Burial, like all other souls do before they enter SS.

    All we saw is how Masaki beeing infected with a hollow having some few similar traits to HIchigo, we still don't know how this affected Ichigo.
    For all we know it may just change him, he might not actually inherit the hollow itself.

    So for good discussions sake, lets not call it fact yet, when there are two equally competing theoiries that can work logically. However they both have loose ends, none of them are completley explained yet, therefore not completely logical to prefer one of them over the other.

    I suppose it's human nature to want an answer and to settle with what we got, but for now I think we need to be patient, we don't know what happened, just yet.

    ---------- Post added at 04:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by amitnaruto View Post
    what if bach killed ichigo's mom because she's his daughter he did tell ichigo he wanted to retrain and re-educate him because he is half quincy. also could explain the why zangetsu has a huge resembelence to bach as well
    I still like this crazy idea you bring up!
    It'd make sense to capure Masaki's soul, and forcibly bring her to Vandenreich, since apparently (theory), the Quincies living there are souls, a sort of opposite to Soul Society.
    Urahara explained that Quincy and Shinigami in nature are opposites, the concept and idealism to create an organisation being opposite to Soul Society could be very realistic, imo.
    • This would explain why Bach is so old.
    • It might explain why they can't leave Vandenreich for an extented period of time, perhaps to keep thier souls stable when linked to Vandenreich? (Never got a Soul Burial).
    • Likely these dead/soul Quincy can't have children, so the pure Bloodlines are still really important.
    • Souken did die in Soul Society on Mayuri's table, he likely never arrived to Vandenreich as a soul.

    Ryuuken stepping down as a potential/heritage as a leader of the Quincy could likely include Vandenreich.
    I think this would explain something else entirely, why Bach never attacked Soul Society when it was weak after Aizen annihilating them all.
    Vandenreich seems to have been under Soouken's leadership, and he wanted peace, coorporation, and balance.
    If Bach came to power, then he would first have to change all this, for one he needed to create the medallion to steal bankais, he needed Quincies prepared to fight captains, he needed information on SS, he needed possibly many other things.

    Bach taking leadership of the Quincy also matches Uryu's and Ichigo's age.
    Ichigo lost his mother at seemingly exact same age as Ishida lost his grandfather, Souuken.

    So, did Bach when he came to power kill Masaki and brought her Quincy soul to Vandenreich?

    We're probably going down the same road again...
    • Ichigo looses Rukia to Soul Society, he rescues her.
    • Ichigo looses Orihime to HM, he rescues her.
    • Ichigo looses his Mother to Vandenreich, he rescues her.

    So what happened to the hollow inside Masaki?
    Either Bach knew a way to handle it, or it indeed was transfered to Ichigo at birth.

    It seems quite possible to me, this would explain a lot of things and loose ends.

    Also not taking Ichigo could be because he wasn't of age yet, like other Quincies living in the human world, they grow up and make families before they seemingly die and go to Vandenreich.
    So it seems rational, to leave Ichigo until he's more grown up.

  14. #162
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantized View Post
    That is still waaaay to early to claim as fact, we don't know for sure yet.
    What you call fact may be likely, but there are alternative satisfying explanations.
    Such as the original explanation, that Ichigo is simply a human with shinigami powers, resulting in him having a hollow side. Ichigo never had his soul sealed in the Soul Burial, like all other souls do before they enter SS.

    All we saw is how Masaki beeing infected with a hollow having some few similar traits to HIchigo, we still don't know how this affected Ichigo.
    For all we know it may just change him, he might not actually inherit the hollow itself.

    So for good discussions sake, lets not call it fact yet, when there are two equally competing theoiries that can work logically. However they both have loose ends, none of them are completley explained yet, therefore not completely logical to prefer one of them over the other.

    I suppose it's human nature to want an answer and to settle with what we got, but for now I think we need to be patient, we don't know what happened, just yet.
    The original theory does not actually explain why ichigo would have that particular inner hollow actually. Ishin made the point that he was containing "ichigo's" hollow with a reishi string. The string was attached to masaki and her hollow so as to contain said hollow. I guess it is possible that ichigo had his own hollow and ishin was given a second reishi string to deal with ichigo's however that still leaves a few unanswered questions. Would ishin have been able to deal with two hollows with just his power?

    Above that, given what we saw it doesn't even make sense ichigo would be part hollow from his mom's side. As far as we saw the purpose of ishin being tied to masaki was to prevent her hollowification, that she would remain human. Masaki never actually hollowified, the soul merger and eventual soul suicide was prevented by urahara and ishin. Another issue would be that if ichigo had inherited a hollow side from masaki then so would have ichigo's sisters. And if they did they would have probably needed reishi strings to contain the hollows as we saw with ishin and ichigo. Then again the only one tied to a reishi string was ichigo and his inner hollow which has the implication that neither karin or yuzu have such a problem to begin with otherwise ishin would not have regained his shinigami powers.

    At this point the explanation that the hollow was transferred is far more consistent with the story and its plot points. Ichigo being half hollow because of his mom does not actually make sense because masaki never turned into a proper hybrid.

  15. #163
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member nitsthegame's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Would be too redundant IMO, I mean the guy is already behind many things that happened, enough
    I think Vandenreich/Juha Bach will have be linked to Masaki's death eventually
    Aizen stab best explains it...it would really be stupid if any quincy is involved in it.....

    Aizen is on-par with uruhara in terms of intelligence..so he wld hav realised wht kisuke did with ishin and masaki...no doubt he tried another experiment...

    another thing to consider..at that point..aizen is still looking for hyugoku.. maybe he thght it resides within masaki...


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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    well, after having received the confirmation that masaki was a skilled quincy,it was clear that she couldn't ahve died because of a fucking hollow like grand fisher. I bet there will be some other quincies involved,maybe connected to the vandenreich. Juha bach's reference to ichigo as his son must be wrong, but it looks like he really knows everything about him and masaki...
    this reference to ichigo as his son isnt literal like everyone thinks, its not wrong, its just that either he is refering to ichigo as his decendent or it is as other people pointed out and he meant to say "our son born in the darkness", as in the quincies son, but the translation wasnt very clear so it could have either been "my" or "our".
    i myself think that he is the ancestor of the kurosaki clan and so everyone in it is technicaly his children, like a grandfather calls his grandchildren sons and daughters.
    heres what i think is the explanation to BB having multiple DF:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...t=#post3373390

  17. #165
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    Re: Bleach 536 Discussion / 537 Predictions

    In case you guys are wondering how Ichigo gained that hollow's abilities and looks:
    Spoiler show


    That explains it, we just have confirmation that Ichigo's mom was attacked before he was born, and even more than that she nearly turned hollow herself. So in that regard Ichigo's hollow based powers were much stronger. So now we have the reason he has shinigami, quincy, hollow, and fullbringer powers. Kubo is knitting things up nicely. Just the question of Juhabach's place in all of this.
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