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Thread: How strong is Naruto?

  1. #31
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795
    A Kage lvl ninja (Highest lvl a ninja can get).
    Not anymore. Shodai, Madara, Kyuubi Naruto, and Nagato are definitely above what used to be considered kage level. If let's say we got Genin, Chuunin, Jounin, elite Jounin, Kage, elite Kage. Then I would place Kakashi and non-enhanced Naruto at elite Jounin. I'm not as radical as Kid Chameleone, since he did finish off Kakuzu and Deva, but not without help and intel and the fact that both were rather battle worn, placing Naruto below kage level. Also Kakashi admitted that Naruto had surpassed him after finishing Kakuzu. Based on what we've actually seen, I'd say Kakashi was talking out of his ass, but I guess I'll just take his word for it.

  2. #32
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Roman's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    So far as Jiraiya, I'm not sure what you mean. We've seen the guy fighting without sage mode throughout the entire series, and clearly he does not need sage mode to perform at kage level. To him sage mode comes as a bonus, as a last resort. To Naruto, it comes as a solid requirement to be able to perform at that level. I'm also not sure what the relevance of "Sasuke, Kakashi and various other characters" is, seeing how they don't even have any enhanced modes. Their base level is in fact their only level.

    I don't mind honest arguments against my position that I might have missed, but when you start picking on words like "seem" when the same can be done for your suggestion that Naruto can probably sustain sage mode longer, I might just get the feeling you're only here to prove some pre conceived opinion by any rethorical means necessary. If my position that non-enhanced Naruto is relatively weak is a point of view, that point of view consists in Naruto having to be saved on his first try against a battle worn Kakuzu, succeeding on his 2nd try, injuring his arm in the process. Much later, we see non-enhanced Naruto running away from Pain getting his ass handed to him, and even much later we see non-enhanced Naruto being like any other mediocre member of the shinobi alliance getting his ass kicked by the 3rd Raikage. The point of view of non-enhanced Naruto being quite useless, is the only point of view we've gotten.

    I don't really mind all the cheaty powerups. I like the fact that he could have achieved none of it without extensive help from Minato, Kushina, Bee, grandpa toad's stick, the oil pool, and Kakashi's kagebunshin theory combined with Kyuubi's chakra reserve. It would be far more farfetched if a boy could achieve kage level in 4 years time through conventional means. Sasuke's groth for instance is far less believable. He loses cursed seal (which is basically semi sage mode), gains MS, and somehow that makes up for the loss of speed, chakra capacity and stamina? We're all supposed to forget that cursed seal used to be Sasuke's version of kyuubi shroud to make up for the tiny chakra reserve that a 16 year old inevitably has. How does gaining MS help? If anything, it should deplete his reserves even faster.
    Just don't forget that non-enhanced Naruto is no different from any top tier jounin.
    If you think about the fight between him and Orochimaru in the part 1, don't forget that base Naruto fought against Kabuto who is probably a high-level Jounin. While taking that into account in Jiraiya vs. Oro, you couldn't possibly measure the exact ranks in powers during that fight. It could've been Kage level, it could've been somewhere in between Jounin and Kage. The point is, you don't know. Which confirms my previous post.

    Everybody has their point of view but the description of the fights you wrote are fairly exaggerated, which has nothing to do with point of view. Exaggeration is an exaggeration. Even though Naruto had help against Kakuzu, he executed FRS and beat him in his base form. I could go on, but the point is that he was always the victor. Being sometimes sloppy or confused doesn't mean he's necessarily weak. It's just his character. He'd be a perfect soldier if he had Itachi personality. But we can't have all, can we?

    Powerups aren't cheaty. By that logic, every ability each shinobi has is a cheat. But it can't considered a cheat because it's a manga based on special abilities. I'm gonna finish that with that argument.

    I agree with you that Naruto is a Jounin-level shinobi in his base status. Never denied that. But then again, it's still just speculation. He might be weaker or he might be stronger than a Jounin. We just tell the way it seems. Which is why I bolded it in the previous post.

  3. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    2. All he did? Minato COULDN'T add an element to Rasengan. That was his maximum. Naruto, as Kakashi said it, was the only one to take the Rasengan to the next level. I couldn't care less for the way he executes it. The power is still the same. I can't get over how idiotic arguments you guys give for downplaying his strength.
    Keep in mind Minato had duties to attend to and died very young. He also had to invent the Rasengan first, which likely also took quite some time and effort.

    Naruto on the other hand practically got everything thrown his way. Worst of all is without Kakashi he would never even have thought about something like infusing his elemental affinity into the Rasengan... so I don't think its fair to compare those two. Who's to say Minato wouldn't have managed to create Rasenshuriken if he lived at least into his forties?
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  4. #34
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    @LnDRash

    Frog Fu is not limited to SM. Its a fighting style, yes obviously better in SM but considering what he did just after Pein to people attacking him with KATANAS even and i say he did whent up in taijutsu.
    I actualy don't remember someone with a sharingan showing insane taijutsu. Even after Sasuke got Lee's taijutsu in part 1 he did nothing special.

    Quote Quote:
    I'd say in Taijutsu alone base Naruto would get his ass handed to him even by characters like Asuma.
    Why? You have any feats from Asuma in taijutsu? I seriously don't remember anything.

    If Nagato wasn't already panting and coughing up blood at that point then he could have simply used another Chibaku Tensei or Super ST to obliterate Naruto. But he already wasted his big shots thanks to other villagers, Sage Mode and Kyuubi.

    CT? We all know its not instant. Naruto's punch would connect before Nagato can form the sphere in his hand, trow it up and the thing actualy start working.
    Now as for Super ST Deva still needs his CD. If he just used a normal ST on Naruto he is out of luck.
    Also what Nagato was doing is not relevant to what Deva was doing. Deva was fighting just fine.

    Not to mention I'd actually argue his ST was also weakened at that point, considering what he did to the big frogs before and how his Edo-Tensei form later threw a swath of destruction throughout the forest.

    For the frogs he had to move up before shoting it. The ST that hit Naruto was big enough. Seriously just look at this:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/442/13

    Come on.

    @Xrayz0r


    Quote Quote:
    Now, back to the real points. If you don't think Jiraiya has shown to be at kage level by scaring off Itachi and Kisame with a frog jutsu summoned at base level
    He did not scare them off. Itachi got "scared" because he did not whant that mission to be a completed. Kisame was asking Itachi WTF do we need to run? Then Itachi gave a complete BS reason. Asuming Itachi would have used that Amaterasu that he used on the wall on JMan's face Jman would be dead. JMan did not even know wtf that is.

    Quote Quote:
    engaging in a major battle with Manda, Oro (granted, Oro didn't have many jutsu) and pill-drugged Kabuto
    He just summoned Bunta, the fight was nothing special. Tsunade was also there with another huge summon. This is not relevant. JMan just defened himself with some hair, poped Bunta, used a katon. Jman was not alone. Tsunade did most of the "defeating Oro" thing.

    Quote Quote:
    Seemed rather evident to me. Even if it wasn't, I would be happy to accept base stat Jiraiya as a weakling if necessary. It's not integral to the point I'm trying to make here.
    I don't belive he is a weakling. Thing is he did not show anything in base mode to put him up with any of the big boys.

    Quote Quote:
    I wouldn't count MS as an enhanced mode because it doesn't supply him with more chakra, stamina, or speed, and it does not have a time limit.
    It gives him other type of boosts. For instance prediction ability. Yes its not the same thing as SM but removing Naruto's SM or CM (or both) is no diferent then removing Sasuke's eyes.

    Quote Quote:
    Naruto beating Deva is nice. Don't forget about the intel gathered by Kakashi though. Without it, base stat Naruto would have ended up like Kakashi, wouldn't he? I dare you to say he wouldn't.
    With no info and Deva not going CT/super ST its hard to judge if he would win but yeah probably not. Thing is Deva had info on Naruto's abilities to so it evens out somewhat.

    Quote Quote:
    Also, would you count Deva to be a solid kage level character on its own?
    Considering what he did to Konoha and the fact that Nagato using Deva ability (CT) almost won over Itachi, Naruto and Bee i would go with a yes.

    Quote Quote:
    I'd say he's 1/6th of such a character, 5/6th of which was beaten by sage mode. Together with the intel and the fact that Nagato had already spent quite some energy running around the village before Naruto even showed up and having to fight Kyuubi in the meanwhile, I'm in a safe position to claim that someone at Jounin level could have barely beaten Deva at that point.
    You would need a Jounin with some special skills to do so. Naruto used a TON of clones to be able to... I mean just look at this:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/442/13

    Quote Quote:
    For the record, I don't care about downplaying any of Naruto's victories (his achievements on the other hand, different story), in fact if I am to be classified as a fanboy, I'd definitely be on Naruto's side. The thing that struck me at this point in the manga was the realisation that non-enhanced Naruto is still the guy who needs 2 tries against tired Kakuzu, and being close to useless against the 3rd Raikage. If that doesn't strike you as weird or remotely interesting, you're not even the target audience and also, there's nothing for you to disagree with here, other than not finding it interesting.
    I don't see a problem with Naruto using SM to be up there with the rest. Raikage needs his Raiton shield for instance. Not a problem really...
    You do unerstand that the 3'rd Raikage had some special body making him just about immune to damage? Also a perfect weapon in that Raiton move? Then INSANE speed? Seriously him ending up as useless vs that guy is not a bad thing. Raikage could fight some 10.000 ninja's man...

    I mean removing Naruto's CM and SM and he does not have a sharingan to compensate. He does not have a Raiton armour, he does not have the 8 tails (Bee), he does not have a broken Kamui like Tobi, he does not have a rinnegan, mokuton, EMS and immortality like Madara. I mean remove the above things from users and put them really on BASE and how good are they really? Yes still good but HOW good? I mean those people have diferent Keke's. Take Raikage you used, perfect body and what not.

    Now after he learned frog fu he did better even in base mode stoping Katanas with his bare hands and what not (just after he saved Konoha).

    @M3J

    Quote Quote:
    Still won because of Sage Mode, information, Kyuubi, and everyone else. Naruto knew more about Pain throughout the fight than Pain did about Naruto at the end.

    Against Deva? It allowed Naruto to get an edge over Deva with taijutsu. In base mode, he was on the defensive until Fukasaku summoned his clone.
    Naruto needed that time (with things you listed) to form the tactic he used vs Danzo to win. Asuming he would have done that off the bat he would have won with no Kurama, SM or anything.

    The only valid thing is the info. Thing is Deva also had info on Naruto.

    Quote Quote:
    Sage Mode allowed him to take out Animal Realm, Human Realm, Asura Realm, Hungry Ghost Realm, and possibly Naraku Realm (forgot). Kyuubi allowed Naruto to break out of the stakes that Deva trapped him in and force Pain to use tons of chakra to subdue the Kyuubi. Frogs provided distraction and allowed Naruto to take out ANimal Realm. Hinata's "death" forced Naruto to go Kyuubi Mode.
    I said DEVA and not PEIN. He obviously can't beat Pein in base. He can't beat Pein even in SM (fair fight).

    Quote Quote:
    no, Naruto would have likely lost because when he fought Deva, Nagato was already low enough on chakra. If Nagato had normal amount of chakra, I doubt Naruto could have escaped Chibaku Tensei.

    Naruto's had tons of advantages over Pain that Pain did not have over Naruto, or anyone had over Pain. That's the main reason why he won. Even if it was just him vs. Deva, he'd have likely lost because of Deva's power.
    He obviously had a lot of advantages. Not stating he did not. What i am stating is that if Naruto would have had a 1vs1 with Deva and he would have used that tactic off the bat he would have won. Well aside for Deva using Super ST off the bat but that would be absurd.

    Quote Quote:
    Yep. Another reason why Naruto's base mode is underrated - he basically was on par with them and even caught Karui's sword with his bare hands!
    Exacly. I am not trying to pass him as a master of taijutsu or a beast in base. He is obviously not but he is not as worse as some people belive.

    Quote Quote:
    He was not able to fight it without help. Bee caught the bijuu bomb from Kyuubi at the start, Kushina warded away Kyuubi's evil will, and her chain pulled Kyuubi down when Naruto was attacking it. If he fought on his own, he'd have probably lost.

    So? I don't care if Kyuubi was amazed. Fact is, Naruto still won because he had help, even though he showed one hell of a power. And as you said, Kyuubi was amazed at Naruto's power, not hte fact that he beat the Kyuubi, who wasn't at the power it had before Minato used Shiki Fuuin.
    Again i did not say WIN. I said he could fight it. Yes he had help granted but he could fight it and make Kurama go Oo at his power. His fight there is a clear feat of his power even if he needed help to do so.
    I mean would you remove Sasuke's ability to dodge Bee's fastest attack because he was saved from death before that happened?

    Quote Quote:
    Because Minato sealed half of it away, and there's no reason to believe it's at full size or had full power? Madara was around the same height as Kyuubi's eye, but Naruto was longer htan the Kyuubi's eye. I assume Naruto and Madara are of same or similar size. Not to mention, Madara looked tiny on Kyuubi's head while Naruto didn't look as tiny next to the Kyuubi.
    And there is no reason to belive he did not regen it back. I can show you a ton of panels with Kurama looking the same(as people can do the oposite and show it smaller) but not going to get into this again.

    Quote Quote:
    After he asked Bee how Raikage hurt himself? That's proving my point, since Naruto was still while talking to Bee. And it wasn't as fast as you claim.
    I asure you Naruto started going SM after the conversation was OVER. Going into SM takes concentration dude. You can't comunitate with Bee like that and go into SM at the same time. It takes concentration and what not to enter SM.

    Quote Quote:
    Not fast enough without distractions, from what we've seen. He hasn't been able to get into Sage Mode while blinking, he was still before he even blinked.
    Fast enough yes. Summon Bunta, summon 100 clones... ETC. I asure you he would have no problem finding those 3 seconds or so to jump into SM.

    Quote Quote:
    Sasuke didn't even use Sharingan until well after Naruto joined the fight with Haku. He was fighting the Rain chuunin and Haku evenly WITHOUT SHaringan, and even when Haku used Ice Mirrors, he was doing well. BEFORE Sharingan.
    He was doing "well" only after he used the sharingan to trail Haku. Go and have another look at that fight. What Haku was doing outside the mirros is not really relevant.
    Quote Quote:
    Sasuke is a lot more special than Naruto, and he's proven it. You can't claim Naruto is better when the manga has shown Sasuke constantly be better, with or wihtout Sharingan. That's like saying Naruto sucks or is worse than Kiba.
    Again Sasuke himself made it clear he was inferior. I mean would you put Sasuke back then above Naruto? I mean who lost to Gaara (completly) and who won? Ask yourself that..
    Sasuke can't posibly do shit to Bunta.

    Then after Sasuke noticed the damage done to that water thing what did he say/do? Seriously...

    Quote Quote:
    Yeah, Naruto using Kyuubi's chakra. Without the Kyuubi, Naruto wouldn't have even stood a chance against normal Sharingan Sasuke or even be able to summon Bunta. Naruto vs. no SHaringan Sasuke would be even, probably, or Sasuke being superior. Hell, Sasuke was able to take out multiple shadow clones soon after Tsunade healed him.
    I did not say just base Naruto...I would not compare base Naruto to Sharingan Sasuke.


    Quote Quote:
    Naruto isn't meant to be above Sasuke, he's meant to be weaker so when Naruto wins, he won because of his guts, determination, and refusal to give up. It'd be a lot like his fight wiht Neji.
    Eh no. Look at Hashirama vs Madara. Look at how Naruto is NOW.

    Quote Quote:
    I don't see any way Kishi can compensate for Naruto losing the Kyuubi without making Sasuke lose his EMS.
    He gains Hirashin, he gains Rinnegan (somehow), he gains a new version of super Rasengan... I asure you Kishi can find something.

  5. #35
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Roman's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    Keep in mind Minato had duties to attend to and died very young. He also had to invent the Rasengan first, which likely also took quite some time and effort.

    Naruto on the other hand practically got everything thrown his way. Worst of all is without Kakashi he would never even have thought about something like infusing his elemental affinity into the Rasengan... so I don't think its fair to compare those two. Who's to say Minato wouldn't have managed to create Rasenshuriken if he lived at least into his forties?
    Yeah, it took him 3 years to create it. Naruto learned it in a week after hearing the theory on it. Naruto was impressive, no questions asked.

    Kakashi handed Naruto the knowledge. But what is knowledge without throwing it into the creation? Nothing. Kakashi threw him an idea, but you had to have the ability to make that idea into deed. Which is what Naruto did.

    We don't know if Minato could do it, but one reason as to why he wouldn't be able to do it is chakra capacity because of which a lot of Kagebunshins are created in order to finalize the technique.

  6. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    One Kagebunshin would be enough.

    Naruto needs two because he already uses a clone just to form the regular Rasengan. Now... considering even Hiruzen geezer could do two Kagebunshins I don't see any reason why Minato would lack the means to accomplish what Naruto did, given enough time to make up for the ~1000 Kagebunshin Training cheat.

    And even if it took Minato 3 years to develop it and Naruto just a week to learn it, I think Minato deserves a lot more credit here then Naruto. Comming up with something new on your own and mastering it is much harder then being teached. Or do you think I deserve the same amount of credit as the guy who invented the car, just for learning how to drive said car in a week? Obviously not.

    Besides, like I said, Minato had duties... Naruto is basically unemployed and could spent all the time he wants on training... heck people even specifically come to him to offer training.

    If Naruto didn't have people basically telling him now you'll do this and now you'll do that, then his greatest achievements would have been sexy no jutsu and harem no jutsu. Which admittedly is the reason why I don't like him as a character. No other shounen main-dumbass-hero is as extremely dependent on others as Naruto.
    Last edited by LnDRash; April 24, 2013 at 09:52 AM.
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  7. #37
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    1. LOL. Are you fucking kidding me? Are you actually accusing the storymaker for making Naruto strong? Seriously, sometimes, posts here make my day.

    2. All he did? Minato COULDN'T add an element to Rasengan. That was his maximum. Naruto, as Kakashi said it, was the only one to take the Rasengan to the next level. I couldn't care less for the way he executes it. The power is still the same. I can't get over how idiotic arguments you guys give for downplaying his strength.
    1. jiraiya who was significantly a better nin and a true genius counld'nt complete sage mode due to the one limitation and that was he didnt have the proper ''body'' just like oro so yeah i am gonna say it's bs. jiraiya trained years for it and couldnt complete it and naruto does it in like 2 weeks solely because his dna allowed him to. itd make more sense if he had been training it for years but the fact that he got it in a couple weeks is ridiculous.

    2. yeah, he simply added another hand. not much thinking involved actually. its so basic that it makes sense only an idiot like naruto could solve it, and you make it seem like he's the only one who would've ever solved it. minato or kakashi would've gotten it eventaully, cant blame them for having an iq over 50 and taking a complex jutsu and NOT turning it into a basic move.

    its funny cause you say our arguments are idiotic yet you can only come up with 2 that that can be dispelled easily. naruto is a garbage ninja. compared to the jounin and the other nin shown in the series naruto is a wreck. the only reason he wins is because his fights get dumbed down for him. he cant even win a fight without being saved when even saukra and chiyo managed to kill sasori without support. he has the kyuubi and still gets his ass kicked. naruto is pathetic. im just waiting for the kage to come in, i hope they all have their own form of sage mode or some secret moves that havent been shown yet, especially minato, because they actually have skills to show and they earned their positions

    naruto is too basic, even when hes in his power ups he still does a bait and switch rasegan. if he ever came at me with a rasengan i'd grab his wrist and cut his arm off. WHAT THEN!?

  8. #38
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Roman's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    One Kagebunshin would be enough.

    Naruto needs two because he already uses a clone just to form the regular Rasengan. Now... considering even Hiruzen geezer could do two Kagebunshins I don't see any reason why Minato would lack the means to accomplish what Naruto did, given enough time to make up for the ~1000 Kagebunshin Training cheat.

    And even if it took Minato 3 years to develop it and Naruto just a week to learn it, I think Minato deserves a lot more credit here then Naruto. Comming up with something new on your own and mastering it is much harder then being teached. Or do you think I deserve the same amount of credit as the guy who invented the car, just for learning how to drive said car in a week? Obviously not.

    Besides, like I said, Minato had duties... Naruto is basically unemployed and could spent all the time he wants on training... heck people even specifically come to him to offer training.

    If Naruto didn't have people basically telling him now you'll do this and now you'll do that, then his greatest achievements would have been sexy no jutsu and harem no jutsu. Which admittedly is the reason why I don't like him as a character. No other shounen main-dumbass-hero is as extremely dependent on others as Naruto.
    Incorrect. It seems you forget about the time actually needed to perfect FRS. Naruto was the only one who could do it precisely because he's able to use Tajuu Kagebunshin.

    If Kakashi gave the idea to Sasuke or ANY other character, they wouldn't be able to do it. Which is, AGAIN, why Naruto is the only one who could do it. This is basically everything I need to backup my arguments.


    Again with the cheats. Okay, Sharingan is a cheat as well. Shikamaru's Kagemane is a cheat as well. Each respective jutsu or ability of any character is a cheat as well. I can play ball like that too.

  9. #39
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Naruto needed that time (with things you listed) to form the tactic he used vs Danzo to win. Asuming he would have done that off the bat he would have won with no Kurama, SM or anything.

    The only valid thing is the info. Thing is Deva also had info on Naruto.
    When he was fighting with Deva while Fukasaku was summoning the clone? Naruto likely would have lost if Deva had his power because all he would have needed to do was use Shinra Tensei out of nowhere or even Bansho Tenin, throw Naruto to the ground, and pin him with the chakra rods. Naruto would have needed Kyuubi or help to beat Deva. If you took away Deva's ability to push or pull stuff, or even replaced his power with someone else's, then Naruto MIGHT stand a better chance. Unless it was Asura.

    Deva didn't have info on Naruto, he was slowly learning the info. The only info he had was not to underestimate Naruto. Throughout the fight Naruto was told information that allowed him to fight accordingly, whether switching to frog fu against Hungry Ghost or knowing to take out Naraku or knowing about Deva's time limit. At the end, what defeated Deva was the info on his 5-second cooldown time, where Naruto threw himself to hit Deva as quickly as possible. Deva lost because he assumed he'd get his power back in time.



    Quote Quote:
    I said DEVA and not PEIN. He obviously can't beat Pein in base. He can't beat Pein even in SM (fair fight).
    Why mention Deva though? That's one body out of the seven used by Nagato, not even living. Even then, Deva would likely win because his power is much better.



    Quote Quote:
    He obviously had a lot of advantages. Not stating he did not. What i am stating is that if Naruto would have had a 1vs1 with Deva and he would have used that tactic off the bat he would have won. Well aside for Deva using Super ST off the bat but that would be absurd.
    What tactic? Sage Mode tactic? I doubt it, Deva could just push Naruto away or even pull him in, throw him to the ground, and pin him with the chakra rods, making Naruto lose Sage Mode because of the chakra being pumped into him.




    Quote Quote:
    Again i did not say WIN. I said he could fight it. Yes he had help granted but he could fight it and make Kurama go Oo at his power. His fight there is a clear feat of his power even if he needed help to do so.
    I mean would you remove Sasuke's ability to dodge Bee's fastest attack because he was saved from death before that happened?
    He could fight it because of help as well. Though, to be fair, if he wasn't going for the requirement, he would have done much better.

    ... that's different. Sasuke dodged Bee's attack on his own. If he beat Bee, it was because of help. It's not like Karin or Suigetsu pushed Sasuke out of the way.



    Quote Quote:
    And there is no reason to belive he did not regen it back. I can show you a ton of panels with Kurama looking the same(as people can do the oposite and show it smaller) but not going to get into this again.
    No you can't. I've seen your panels, and they've proven nothing.



    Quote Quote:
    I asure you Naruto started going SM after the conversation was OVER. Going into SM takes concentration dude. You can't comunitate with Bee like that and go into SM at the same time. It takes concentration and what not to enter SM.
    As you say, proof. Naruto didn't say he was gonna go into Sage Mode after he was finished talking, he didn't give any indication at all.

    You can concentrate and talk at the same time. Naruto was able to get into Sage Mode while moving, even though he failed. All Naruto needs to do is take in natural energy and balance his chakra, which could be like a second nature to him because of experience.



    Quote Quote:
    Fast enough yes. Summon Bunta, summon 100 clones... ETC. I asure you he would have no problem finding those 3 seconds or so to jump into SM.
    The clones might help, but Bunta won't help. It won't be fast enough against people like Deva, Sasuke, and Madara. Hell, Sasuke can summon Susano'o and use the arrows to target the area where Naruto could be, or Madara can find the real Naruto and take him out. Deva can just push the clones and real Naruto away and make it impossible for him to get into Sage Mode.

    Bunta is irrelevant here unless Naruto's fighting Animal Realm or anyone who only fights with summons. Bunta can't hit small ninjas. He'd be useless for the most part.



    Quote Quote:
    He was doing "well" only after he used the sharingan to trail Haku. Go and have another look at that fight. What Haku was doing outside the mirros is not really relevant.
    he was doing well even before that, considering he was dodging most needles from reaching his vital spots. He was also doing better throughout the fight. Sasuke did much better than Naruto without Sharingan.

    No, it is relevant. Just because it doesn't support your thoughts doesn't make it irrelevant. Haku was praised as a fast genius, but Sasuke was able to keep up and even push Haku back. It wasn't until Haku used his kekkei genkai that he gained an advantage, and even then he was failing to take out Sasuke, needing Naruto to get Sasuke into a trap to take him out. While Sasuke had no advantage throughout the fight and was on defensive, he still did better.

    In those two fights he basically proved he was better and superior to Naruto.


    Quote Quote:
    Again Sasuke himself made it clear he was inferior. I mean would you put Sasuke back then above Naruto? I mean who lost to Gaara (completly) and who won? Ask yourself that..
    Sasuke can't posibly do shit to Bunta.

    Then after Sasuke noticed the damage done to that water thing what did he say/do? Seriously...
    He thought he was inferior, and it's still an opinion, not a fact. Naruto needed the Kyuubi's chakra to summon Bunta, which is the only thing that saved him. I'd still put Sasuke above Naruto unless Naruto could summon Bunta with his own chakra, and Bunta could hit Sasuke. Sasuke failing to beat Gaara where Naruto succeeded doesn't mean he's weaker than Naruto. Naruto had more chakra, Kyuubi, and summons to help him. Sasuke used up more than one or two chidori and was inflicted with the Cursed Seal. He still did better against normal Gaara than Naruto would have hoped to ever done, actually makin Gaara panic.

    Actually, Sasuke can. A lot of characters can.

    Yeah, so? Rasengan is a better attack than chidori. So? But they work differently. Look at how chidori damaged the water tower, and compare it to how rasengan damaged the water tower. Then, look at how chidori and rasengan always evened each other out. You're comparing apples to oranges.



    Quote Quote:
    I did not say just base Naruto...I would not compare base Naruto to Sharingan Sasuke.
    Because base Naruto is very much inferior to Sharingan Sasuke.

  10. #40
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Roman's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Because base Naruto is very much inferior to Sharingan Sasuke.
    Just like he was inferior to Sasuke before he left the village.


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  12. #41
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Just like he was inferior to Sasuke before he left the village.

    guy that was in part 1. base naruto vs base sasuke no would get slaughtered with no remorse

    you make it seem like base naruto is some god when he's not. all he has is rasengan and clones. no skills, no brains just the same old bait and switch

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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Chameleone View Post
    guy that was in part 1. base naruto vs base sasuke no would get slaughtered with no remorse
    Dude, I'm TRYING not to insult you. Do you seriously think that Naruto stayed the same level in part 2? Are you seriously that much of a fanboy to dismiss that kind of logic?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    People in this manga have said something to be impossible only to be proven wrong so many times now...

    To learn Elemental Manipulation was said to take what? Years? Sasuke did it in a week or so, maybe month... no idea, to lazy to check.

    Those time expectations are meant for your regular run of the mill fodder jounin, not exceptional geniuses like Minato, so I still don't see any solid evidence as for why it would have been impossible for someone like Minato to learn that technique given enough time.

    And maybe cheat wasn't the right choice of words, lets call it shortcut instead. See, I wouldn't have any trouble acknowledging Kagebunshin Training as an achievement on Naruto's part... I'd actually call it pretty damn clever and an excellent exploit of his abilities. But sadly thats once again something he never would have come up with on his own and Kakashi had to do all the thinking for him.

    His extreme dependency on others is what really diminishes most of Naruto's achievements. It feels like he really can't do anything on his own.
    Click here for what I consider the definition of "simply brilliant"

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    He was once a very charismatic, kind, special and inspiring person. LnDRash was a premium brand, now this brand is called LnDTRash!

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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    Quote Originally Posted by shahdan View Post
    Let's not kid ourselves that he lasts even a minute in front of any decent ninja with his bait and switch KB jutsu and Rasangan legendary combo.
    say what you want, his immense chaakra bails him out of 90% of all battles, and if you are questioning his actual skill as a shinobi

    you can always go back to the battle with neji in the chuunin exams or his teamwork with sasuke against zabuza both before he had control over his monstrous chaakra

    i agree that if the chaakra were even he would struggle against someone like kakashi

    but with his chaakra being so much higher than everyone elses, i honestly dont think anyone could beat him, itachi would stand the best chance just because he could out wit him and would have no need to fight him strength vs strength

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    Re: How strong is Naruto?

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    To learn Elemental Manipulation was said to take what? Years? Sasuke did it in a week or so, maybe month... no idea, to lazy to check.
    Except that Chidori is light years away from FRS's power.

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