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Thread: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

  1. #16
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    So,it's the worst arc for you because:
    1-It's totally different.
    2-Power levels.
    3-The plot that you think generic.
    I won't talk about the art because it was fixed in the volume.

    OK,first HXH can be different from many shounen but it's still a shounen,and some shounen codes are impossible to avoid,all HXH arcs have been totally different since the beginning and the Chimera Ants arc is one of the arcs which fits the most with the theme of the series,for the first time since the beginning,magical beasts had a huge role in the story.
    HXH is an Adventure/battle shounen so,power levels are always important,since the beginning of the series Gon is trying to reach Hisoka's level,even if you fight with tactics and tricks,it doesn't mean you should be weak and Meruem was the ONLY exception,Togashi created him to represent the ULTIMATE POWER(which is very funny because we learn latter that he has been outsmarted by Netero),I don't remember exactly but he wrote something like"In a battle involving Nen,power isn't sufficient to beat your opponents but Meruem's aura was so strong that etc..."

    I don't understand why you think the plot is generic.I could resume every arc with one phrase like that:
    Hunter Exam:I must be a Hunter.
    Zoldyck arc:I must see my friend.
    Celestial Tower arc:I must punch Hisoka to the face!
    York Shin City arc:We must beat the PT.
    Greed Island arc: I must complete the game.

    It seems pretty generic like that,the 2 first arcs are the most generic,GI too but in the 3rd arc,Gon has many things to do,if he wants to punch Hisoka he must learn Nen and all it's the same in following arcs.
    YS arc which is the most praised arc is a bit off in the story,it is clearly the most different arc in the manga.
    CA arc is not generic at all even if it follows many codes of shounen,the most tactical battles are in this arc,you can't win with power alone(excepted Gon vs Pitou),awesome characters,awesome plot.For me it's the best arc in the series.

    The story of HXH is generic itself:A young boy wants to find his father...But when you read the manga you see that it's completely different from generic shounen manga.


    And yes,of course I am excited to see my favorite arc being animated.
    Last edited by Demonspeed; April 24, 2013 at 09:47 AM.
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  2. #17
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    Want to add something to what Demonspeed says about HxH in regards to the series still being a shonen in relation to the OP's complaints about the Chimera Ant arc

    These aren't my words but from someone on the Interwebs I don't see anymore but respect a lot as someone who can explain why he loves HxH in an intelligent and coherent fashion. Mr. Toto!

    "One more thing is that you mention that Hunter x Hunter's arcs seem to be reminiscent of other popular series, but I'm pretty certain that this is entirely intentional. Togashi tries to filter the cliches of shonen through a logical and rational approach. He's trying to seriously examine his characters and what drives them (often a psychological disorder, presented in textbook fashion), as opposed to the shallow characterization present in most shonen manga."

    "This is what I've found after reading the series. The protagonist, Gon, is made entirely amoral as a result of his curiosity always taking precedence over anything else. Togashi does a very good job of distracting his readers from picking up on this through subtle dialogue choices and doesn't explicitly state it until the Yorknew City arc. Gon's drive for power isn't written about in a positive light; his flaws are significant and portrayed as self-destructive as a result of his purity. On the other side of the coin, characters whom are supposed to be "villains" also exhibit traits opposite from what one would expect. "


    Excerpts sourced from
    http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/....php?t=1031785
    Last edited by HybridBloodsZak; April 24, 2013 at 11:36 AM.

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  4. #18
    Kawaii Neko 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member naruto-niichan's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    To be honest I never enjoyed the Ant Arc that much. It had it's awesome moments but I never really got attached to the Arc as a whole. Didn't have much interest in any "villain" besides Pitou so yeah, I was rather so-so towards the arc. Me reading through the arc too fast and the amazingly long breaks towards the end probably did the rest.

    Looking back on it now (I actually realized it months ago) I have to say that I was totally in the wrong. I haven't even reread the Ant Arc but when the anime started I thought about what's ahead of us and then had a discussion with another MH fellow over in my thread. He bashed the arc, calling it really bad. Then I started reflecting on it, for some reason I thought about it really hard instead of just agreeing or disagreeing. Then it came to me that the arc is way more amazing than what I thought about it years ago. Maybe I wasn't mature enough to realize it, I dunno. Maybe I even was too action-focused too.

    Thinking about it though, I have to say Togashi really put a damn lot of thoughts onto this arc. It's nothing for a fast read, you have to use your mind and realize all the themes he's scratching, the astonishing character development (and I'm not just talking about Gon and Killua here but a lot of the Ants too) and the detailed fights. I doubt I've seen that much strategy being used in such a short span of chapters. Sure Pitou, Yupi, Pouf and Meruem were/are so extremly strong that there was no way to beat them, none. We don't got a lame powerup for the protagonists though, but an intense amount of strategy used. Not just your masterfully planned out strategy, where the hero totally overhelms the villains and puts on a confident grin at the end, but a desperate struggle to win with your wits, if everything somehow works out and you have a damn lot of luck. That's what made the fights so stunning.

    Well, that's only a small part of it but I just wanted to say that I feel like a fool downgrading the arc back then. I would always recommend to not just read HxH like your everyday action shounen but rather really sit down and think about it for a few minutes. That probably makes you realize a lot of things you didn't notice at first, at least that's how it went for me. I'm calling it and saying that Togashi is just that amazing. A lazy genius but still a genius, no matter what you think about how he's handling the serialization of Hunter x Hunter.

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  6. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Akia999's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    I like and hate this arc at the same time.At first glance, I actually found the idea of insanely strong ants eating humans taking over the world pretty ridiculous.I really wasn't to keen to read it.But then I did.I finished 2/3 of the arc in a day or two and I freaking love it.(I cry when I was realize Togashi is on hiatus)The horribly drawn art didn't really bother me.
    The fights and the strategies used in battle were really good.(Killua's fight and Moral's fight were some of my favorite)I also like a lot of other things in the arc but I just can't quite describe it in words.As some pointed out, this arc is actually pretty deep and dark contrary to what people think.
    Though I still can't quite get over the fact that some of the ants were overly powerful but at least they got defeated in a way that wasn't too much of a deus ex machina.

    This arc suffered a lot once it hit the last 1/3 of the arc.The constant hiatus make it hard for me to enjoy the arc because I can't remember much details.Also,this arc was seriously starting to drag and I just wanted it to end asap.One of the royal guards was also starting to annoy the crap of me.

    I was pretty meh with the chapters leading to the ending.But I liked the ending of the arc a lot.It wasn't the ending I have imagined for this arc but at least it didn't end in a cliche fashion.

    Overall,the chimera ant is a pretty good arc despite its rather ridiculous premise.Give this arc a chance.I think those that read it in one go would enjoy it a lot better.I plan to reread it again once I have the time.

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  8. #20
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    im on chapter 218 now

    this arc is great thus far, i love the training growth and the enemies
    i dont want to say too much incase anime only people read this thread

  9. #21
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member DraMas26's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    The problem for me is why do the "Ants" not look a thing at all like ants?

    I always thought it would have been better to call them Chimera Beasts or something. ''Ants'' sounds more like a misnomer.

  10. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member futurefrog's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    Quote Originally Posted by DraMas26 View Post
    The problem for me is why do the "Ants" not look a thing at all like ants?

    I always thought it would have been better to call them Chimera Beasts or something. ''Ants'' sounds more like a misnomer.
    Originally look like ants but so much crossing of genes creates different appearance for them.

    "If you want to understand someone, find out what makes them angry."

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  12. #23
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    Quote Originally Posted by DraMas26 View Post
    The problem for me is why do the "Ants" not look a thing at all like ants?

    I always thought it would have been better to call them Chimera Beasts or something. ''Ants'' sounds more like a misnomer.
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  14. #24
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member DraMas26's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonspeed View Post
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    I never quite understoood that scene. Is that really happening or is it just an illusion?

  15. #25
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Drmke's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    Quote Originally Posted by DraMas26 View Post
    I never quite understoood that scene. Is that really happening or is it just an illusion?
    I always considered it sort of like a visual metaphor; like his instinctual side is taking over blah blah.

    I have never been able to understand why people get so bent out of shape over "power balance" in manga or anime. Maybe in a show like DBZ that stresses actual power levels, but HH just has powers and like in real life, many other aspects other than pure strength determine a fight. Togashi has made than abundantly clear during the entire manga. It really doesn't matter who is objectively stronger because nobody really is after they develop their strengths properly.


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  17. #26
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    Power level absolutely determines the outcome of fights. The reason they don't always do this is that the vast majority of HXH characters are incredibly dumb and are relatively pacifists for some inexplicable reasons. In a world where you can basically die in one hit against an equal tier opponent, people inexplicably don't try to snap your arm or other form of irreversible damage and instead try to outduel each other as if they're in a Dragonball sanctioned tournament where killing the enemy gets you disqualified (except it does not).

    Zeno versus Kuroro is a good example of how you can absolutely beat down someone with a lower defense than you from range no matter what ability they might have. Meryem versus Netero is a good example of the type of damage you want to be doing when you're stronger than your enemy, and even there Meryem was hardly fighting optimally since he knows he needs to beat Netero into submission as opposed to just killing him, which is actually a significantly harder task as he needs to purposely hold back his strength (no way Netero can take a hit from Meryem head on), which is why he actually has to figure out how to deal with his move. If there's no 'submission' requirement he can simply do a large area of effect emission attack, for example, and there's no way he'd lose if the two has to trade hits.

    In fact Zeno's strategy pretty much applies universally for any fight in HXH. If your ranged (Emission) attack > their physical defense, then just do ranged attack if the enemy appears to be using an unknown ability because they can't counter stuff from range and you'll eventually be able to do enough damage to them, or force them to switch to melee.

  18. #27
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    i loved the ant arc.
    It is true that there are many side stories which can get confusing, but over all, this arc, exspecially the final, was astonishing.

    character developement did not only happen between killuah and gon, but also with so many side characters that you can reread that arc several times and still find new stuff.

    The arc did have good fights which were out of the box because many enemies were overwhelmingly strong, it had nice pictures, meaning, nice metaphors and transitions, like when when get to know about the rose and togashi shos human curelty compared to the logical ideas of meruem.

    The main villains were well thought out, all 4 of them.

    This arc was not just shonen, it had something to say besides 'yoyo, friendship and determination'

  19. #28
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member apellon's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    Honnestly, i do agree with all the points given so far ... But as i stated in my op comment , it wasnt so that i hated it or didnt think nothing was good about it ....
    But now all the comments speak for thenself of how much debate there is on this arc... So this on itself indicate that this arc might have not only strenght but also issues .... Now you may object all you want im never heard of any of this kind of debate or frustration concerning : york new , for example....

    Its true that togashi tries to go deeper in some subject and new projects ... he tries to make the reader think or even suprise the reader... On many ways he succeed ( the tragic , the friendship, the loss, the fear even the fragile existence of one self ) but in the same time in many other he fails to do so , to say that there is some philosophical value in this arc is in my opinion a littlr highly overstated , unless shonen jump is the only source of reference. The subjects approached are done way bettet in many other media or series... That said its still commandebale for him to try to approach this . Doing so though he disolved the scenario wich became bothersome and tiring at time , i didnt find it thaf interesting or even that suprising in fact it was pretty obvious to me that was the direction he wanted for this arc...

    Now the most problematic issue to me was the theme of this arc : chimera ants .
    This theme bound togashi to go into designing charachters, art and scenario to follow this theme wich is in
    Fact really lame ... Togashi is a genius but i dont think even him
    Was up to the task to try to make ants interesting to me .. The traits inherent to this zoo/ants theme is well depicted by him but it doesnt change the fact that the concept was a mistake at first ( food chain bs and all) ... I would add that this led to too many bothering characters that kept take too much space in this arc...that is thr reason why so many of us hxh fan ,I never cared much of the characters , while we really love chrollo , hisoka or even bomber .

    So yes its good to tries to improve the genre , but it is not if its to forget the basics , to forget the essence of what made the manga so succesful is sad . I hope the nest dark continuent will bring new themes , interesting subjects while keeping it rooted to what we always loved.
    Overall i still liked this arc , for the reasons stated in other comments from me or other peers , but i still feels it was probably not the best arc.
    Last edited by apellon; April 27, 2013 at 02:43 AM.

  20. #29
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    Quote Originally Posted by apellon View Post

    Now to me the most problematic issue to me was the theme of this arc : chimera ants .
    This theme bound togashi to go into designing charachters, art and scenario to follow this theme wich is in
    Fact really lame ... Togashi is a genius but i dont think even him
    Was up to the task to try to make ants interesting to me .. The traits inherent to this zoo/ants theme is well depicted by him but it doesnt change the fact that the concept was a mistake at first ...

    I never cared much of the characters , while i really love chrollo , hisoka or even bomber .

    So yes its good to tries to improve the genre , but it is not if its to forget the basics to dorget the essence of what made the manga so succesful.
    Overall i still liked this arc , for the reasons stated in other comments by you peers , but i still feels it was probably not the best arc.

    The way this comes off is "I don't like the character designs and the concept of a Chimera Ant so they're lame and uninteresting"

    While it's perfectly fine to not like the designs or the concepts of the ants that does not make them lame and uninteresting. You're telling me you found something lacking in the character development of ants like Ikalgo, Meleoron, Welfin or the Royal Guards/Meruem? Huh? The character arcs some of the Ants go through had me engaged the entire time and I was always dying to see how they react to or trigger events that unfold in the arc the Royal Guards especially. I'll even say Meruem is the most developed villain in the entire show at this point more so than fan favorite engimas Hisoka and Chrollo.

    Moving past char development, you found the new Nen abilities introduced on the hero and villain sides boring too? I think you might want to reread the arc because not only are the powers pretty unique but the way they're applied is also interesting due to the way Nen is structured.

    For example Smoke powers aren't all that original but the way Deep Purple is used I found more creative than say One Piece where Smoker is harder to hit because he can make his body the element. Pitou using Dr. Price as an anchor to keep herself from being blasted away when its main purpose is to heal. You didn't think that was interesting? There are SO MANY of these throughout the entire arc I'm flabbergasted you didn't find even 1 of them cool

    "Don't forget the essence of what made the manga successful"

    Um I don't know what you think makes the manga special from other battle shonen but I found this arc to be a perfect distillation of what makes HxH Hunter x Hunter for better or worse(not a typo). Strategic encounters, complex villains, a gritty world and story-line are all present in this arc more than any other.
    Last edited by HybridBloodsZak; April 26, 2013 at 05:03 PM.

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  22. #30
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

    The Ants were chosen not because Ants make interesting characters but that Togashi likes writing about Ants for some reason. And he should take full responsibilty for starring a bunch of characters that are not very interesting to the population in general. It's kind of like how REAL is not as well received as Slam Dunk because the population in general is not as interested in wheelchair basketball compared to basketball, even though it's written by the same guy. If you want to write about Ants or wheelchair basketball you should accept that majority of your reader is going to think it's a dumb subject.

    I have two major problems with the Ant arc:

    1. The Ants are way too powerful and within the world of HXH there's no conceiveable way they could've lost the battle. If HXH is supposed to be 'not like other Shonen' then humanity is doomed. Although the method humanity was saved was unorthodox it's definitely a 'Shonen' ending where humans win. Not that being 'Shonen' itself is bad, but it pretty much undoes the effort of "HXH isn't like your Shonen"

    2. The philsophical stuff in the Ant arc is basically stupid. You don't argue about the moral correctness in a world extinction event. It'd be like if a killer asteroid was coming this way and we shoot all our nukes at it to blow it up but ended up contaminating half of the world and then people say 'maybe it's better if we didn't do that'. No it wouldn't be because if the killer asteroid hit everyone would be dead. Likewise trying to argue philsophical differences with the Ants when Ants basically view humans as a source of food is pointless. When the random girls asked Meryem to spare their lives, Meryem said, "Do you spare the animals you eat just because they cry?" That's pretty much a completely irreconciliable viewpoint. He doesn't kill human because he hates them. He's doing so because they're food. Even with his alleged 'growth', he still told Netero that he will try to limit the amount of food the Ants will consume. So while that means no human hamburger for lunch every day, you can beat human hamburger is still going to be regular delicacy for the Ants. The Ants and Humans are simply too far apart that trying to argue any kind of morality is pointless.

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