Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (10/13/14 - 10/19/14).
Forum News: The nomination phase of the Community Awards 2014 is live! Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
New Reply
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 57

Thread: Strongest soul reapers

  1. #1
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner kingdemon302's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    1114 n mayfield rd
    Country
    United States
    Age
    20
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like

    Strongest soul reapers

    1. Ichigo
    2. Aizen
    3. Shigekuni Yamamoto-Genryūsai
    4. Zaraki Kenpachi
    5.Byakuya

    If you think other's are post a reply.
    hello anime/manga fans

  2. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Zeta42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Country
    Ukraine
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    526
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    1. Yamamoto
    2. Aizen
    3. Kenpachi
    4. Unohana
    5. Ichigo

  3. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  4. #3
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Country
    United Nations
    Age
    35
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,069
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    1. ichigo
    2.kenpachi
    3.isshin
    4.yorouichi
    5.urahara

    by strongest I suppose you meant, the ability to win a to the death battle. CC was left off cause well.. he is dead.
    This is my list, of top 5 strongest shinigami.


    Be proud, that after receiving my blade you still retain the shape of a human.

  5. #4
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Exodi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,919
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    1. Yumichika Ayasegawa (how anyone can't see this is beyond me)
    2. Zennosuke Kurumadani
    3. Yachiru
    4. Kaien
    5. Kurotsuchi Nemu
    [/troll]


    My real answer:

    1. Yamamoto
    2. Aizen
    3. Kenpachi
    4. Unohana
    5. Ichigo

    Though I guess technically, according to Shunsui:

    1. Osho
    2. Kirinji
    3. Nimaiya
    4. Hikifune
    5. Shutara
    (In that order, which I completely made up and based solely on how they look and how cool I think they are.)

  6. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  7. #5
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Jabman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Country
    Canada
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    382
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    1. Shigekuni Yamamoto-Genryūsai
    2. Ichigo (Sword attached to hand)
    3. Aizen (Hyougyaku)
    4. Juha Bach
    5. Aizen (Normal)

    Had to add a 6, and a 7

    6. Shunsui Kyoraku
    7. Ichigo (Current Ichigo)
    Last edited by Jabman; April 26, 2013 at 12:44 AM.

  8. #6
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Country
    Russian Federation
    Age
    20
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    430
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    Ichigo is not a soul reaper -.-

    Excluding RG:

    Yamamoto
    Zaraki Kenpachi
    Aizen
    Tessai
    Ishin

  9. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    897
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    Only going with living shinigami
    1: Aizen
    2: Kenny
    3: (guess) post training Byakuya
    4: Shunsui
    5: Toshiro
    Meh

  10. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  11. #8
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Country
    Nigeria
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,351
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    Using the word strongest is vague in this manga. Strongest what? Strongest at performing his assigned tasks? Strongest because of his or her success rate? Strongest fighter? Strongest what? Strongest at winning no matter what? Strongest Kido user? Strongest in reiatsu?

    Anyway if it's just the Gotei 13 ex members or current members who are pure shinigami then it would go like this
    1) Aizen
    2) Yamamoto
    3+) & Isshin, Gin & possibly Unohana (though her only demostation is near killing Zaraki hundreds of times for 3 days & 3 nights in a Zanjustu fight).
    Byakuya would also be here due to his complete skills & also Shinji I think

    If it's just whom as the most powerful Reiatsu then it would go like this
    1) Aizen, Yamamoto
    2) Isshin, Byakuya
    3+) & the rest would fall below or around because they are just captain lvl reiatsu

    If it's about the strongest sword fighter (Zanjutsu) then it's
    1) Aizen, Unohana, Zaraki, Yamamoto,
    2+) & the rest would be around or below these four in Zanjutsu

    If it's speed then it's
    1) Soifon, Yoruichi
    2) Yamamoto, Byakuya
    3+) the rest would be below

    If it's about abilities then it's

    1) Aizen,
    2) Byakuya
    3) Shinji
    4+) & the rest would fall around or under these 3 with Yama being dead last (No point in having such a inconvenient zanpakuto with it's wide range destruction, I'd rather have Omaeda's zanpakuto any day of any week of any mouth of any year, a million times over Yamamoto's zanpakuto).

    If it's about the strongest Kido users then
    1) Tessai, Hachigen
    2) Aizen, Yama, Unohana
    3+) Byakuya, Urahara & the rest would follow

    The most balanced or rather versatile fighter?
    1) Aizen
    2) Byakuya
    3+) Yama & the rest

    Pure brute force
    1)Yamamoto (strongest destructive fire zanpakuto & hey Aizen already clarified that but it's not like it needed clarification)
    2) Aizen (cuts bankai for breakfast)
    3) Komamura
    4) Love
    5) The rest would fall below

    Most agile
    1) Yoruichi, Soifon
    2) Aizen
    3) The rest would fall below

    So again the strongest isn't a clear thing to really say. If it's about who would win then what determines who wins is what actually happens in a fight not who is necessary superior in power. Examples of that are

    Komamura & Hisagi vs Tousen. Tousen was far superior to these two in power

    Gin vs Aizen (cheap shot but that's the point). Aizen was dimensions superior

    Fullbring vs Captains & Vc. The momemt Yukio trapped them, they were at his mercy but hey, Captains & Vc had to advance thus Yukio had to be brought down no matter what. Giriko is also a big example, Instead of manipulating the circumstances of time, he want for the brute force approach. Tsukishima is also a small example.

    Barragan vs Soifon. He had Soifon even without his release but his power is age & that made him very arrogant & allowed Hachigen to score the win.

    Tousen vs Zaraki. Tousen would have one shotted him with bankai but we know it was not to be.

    SS vs Sternritters. The Sternritters should have had zero Casualties but once again, If Kubo made things like this, we wouldn't have character's left would we? lol

    Some individuals are excluded like Ichigo because they can't be classified as just Soul Reapers (Shinigami, DeathGod). But if he were included then he would steal first place in Speed & agility, he would join first place in pure force, he would be in first for most convenient zanpakuto (imo the best overall zanpakuto in abilities. It's simple but it's simplicity is one of the best qualities, not to mention it's fits really well ), he would destroy the reiatsu ranking by a very very large margin because he has the reiatsu of http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-10.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-11.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-14.html
    The reiatsu of Yamamoto (who has about twice of that of a captain), Isshin, Soifon, Yoruichi, Byakuya, Toshiro, Zaraki, Unohana, Shinji, Love, Renji, Ikkaku, Komamura, Tensei, Urahara, Tessai, Ukitake, Shunshi, Rukia, Mayuri, Sasakibe, Omaeda, Matsumoto, Kira, Hasagi, Momo, Nanao, Isane, Iba, Yachiru, Nemu, other division members (considering Hanataro, who is a 7th seat) if not all officers & Possibly Hachigen, Rose, Lisa, Hiyori. WTF, I honestly never though how ridiculous this number would be until now.
    Last edited by Kay3795; April 26, 2013 at 09:52 AM.

  12. Like 3 Member(s) likes this post
  13. #9
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    Poland
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    If it's just whom as the most powerful Reiatsu then it would go like this
    1) Aizen, Yamamoto
    2) Isshin, Byakuya
    3+) & the rest would fall below or around because they are just captain lvl reiatsu
    Seriously, I don't know how you assumed, that Byakuya has bigger reiatsu than any captain. xD How could you assume, that Byakuya's reiatsu is on par with Isshin's? Hell, how could you assume, that his reiatsu is above Kenpachis? In terms of reiatsu Byakuya is as average as one can get.

    Quote Quote:
    If it's speed then it's
    1) Soifon, Yoruichi
    2) Yamamoto, Byakuya
    3+) the rest would be below
    I think Byakuya is at least as fast as Soifon if not faster. He doesn't use Hakuda, so don't see it often, but he could use Yoruichi's techniques, so I guess he should be higher.

    Quote Quote:
    If it's about abilities then it's

    1) Aizen,
    2) Byakuya
    3) Shinji
    You really have to like Byakuya, dammmmn. Shinji was shown bruised, probably after fight against sternritter, and looking for more, like his fight was nothing. Without using Hollow mask, he could cut Aizen, something none Shinigami could do before. And Byakuya didn't prove himself to be near that level in any fight. He is now in SP, because he was in coma, right? He got his ass handed to him. Rest of captains did MUCH better in their fights. There's no proof, that As is stronger than any other SR.

    Quote Quote:
    If it's about the strongest Kido users then
    1) Tessai, Hachigen
    2) Aizen, Yama, Unohana
    3+) Byakuya, Urahara & the rest would follow
    Unohana didn't show much regarding Kido in manga. Urahara, on the other hand, could have killed someone on Yama level with his Kido.
    Quote Quote:
    The most balanced or rather versatile fighter?
    1) Aizen
    2) Byakuya
    3+) Yama & the rest
    Byakuya's versatility didn't help him this time, did it? In close combat he could do anything, without his ability he almost died. Shunsui, Shinji, Ukitake, on the other hand are always doing good against enemies, and seem more versatile than him.


    Quote Quote:
    The reiatsu of Yamamoto (who has about twice of that of a captain), Isshin, Soifon, Yoruichi, Byakuya, Toshiro, Zaraki, Unohana, Shinji, Love, Renji, Ikkaku, Komamura, Tensei, Urahara, Tessai, Ukitake, Shunshi, Rukia, Mayuri, Sasakibe, Omaeda, Matsumoto, Kira, Hasagi, Momo, Nanao, Isane, Iba, Yachiru, Nemu, other division members (considering Hanataro, who is a 7th seat) if not all officers & Possibly Hachigen, Rose, Lisa, Hiyori. WTF, I honestly never though how ridiculous this number would be until now.
    Not like he has ALL of their reiatsu. He has as much reiatsu as he can handle. He has bigger "container" for reiatsu, that Shinigamis are training. Their reiatsu was used to fill it up.

  14. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  15. #10
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Opportunist traveler.
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Seriously, I don't know how you assumed, that Byakuya has bigger reiatsu than any captain. xD How could you assume, that Byakuya's reiatsu is on par with Isshin's? Hell, how could you assume, that his reiatsu is above Kenpachis? In terms of reiatsu Byakuya is as average as one can get.
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...16-page-5.html
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...16-page-9.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-616-8/...apter-162.html
    Except for maybe Byakuya, a Noble, exceptionally talented and supported by the manga, one of the best all around fighters and whom has polished his skill as far as it can get, and regarded as a genius too.
    Nobody is twisting facts but you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    I think Byakuya is at least as fast as Soifon if not faster. He doesn't use Hakuda, so don't see it often, but he could use Yoruichi's techniques, so I guess he should be higher.
    Soifon is fast enough to make Yoruichi piss herself, has been used in the manga to demonstrate speed and is THE Shinigami that excels at speed during a fight. The only thing Byakuya has ever done that might have shown to be exceptionally fast was when he almost caught up with Yoruichi, who was carrying an unconscious Ichigo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    You really have to like Byakuya, dammmmn.
    Byakuya is what happened when you give Hitsugaya a hundred years to perfect his powers and abilities. He's great at everything he does and capable of doing almost anything. He's one of the very few characters that can get close to Aizen in terms of Shinigami mastery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Shinji was shown bruised, probably after fight against sternritter, and looking for more, like his fight was nothing.
    The only injury Byakuya ever got was that scratch in the shoulder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Without using Hollow mask, he could cut Aizen, something none Shinigami could do before.
    Soifon stabbed Aizen in the gut, using a distraction, just like Shinji did. Aizen got cut because Shinji's Sakanade was disorienting at first, not because Shinji was exceptionally strong even without his mask.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    And Byakuya didn't prove himself to be near that level in any fight. He is now in SP, because he was in coma, right? He got his ass handed to him. Rest of captains did MUCH better in their fights. There's no proof, that As is stronger than any other SR.
    That much love towards vaguely human shaped arrangement of straws should be considered a medical condition. Byakuya was doing fine until he was scratched by an arrow that filled him with unnatural fear that distracted him, and eventually lost his calm and panicked. Also, only a few SR stole Bankai, and probably none of them had an ability as dangerous as As Nodt. Stop using the end result to try to prove a point, it won't work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Unohana didn't show much regarding Kido in manga. Urahara, on the other hand, could have killed someone on Yama level with his Kido.
    Unohana had to be good at Kido to be able to heal so well. Urahara had to depend on Aizen's overconfidence to get a clean shot. And anybody would have been able to hurt Yamamoto with such a high level Kido.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Byakuya's versatility didn't help him this time, did it? In close combat he could do anything, without his ability he almost died. Shunsui, Shinji, Ukitake, on the other hand are always doing good against enemies,
    Byakuya is one of the best combatants all around, and that includes close combat. Neither Shunsui, Ukikake or Shinji had to deal with Ichigo's insane speed or As Nodt's mind numbing ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    and seem more versatile than him.
    You have a thousand years to prove it. But I know you will be unable to, because the closest those three got to display versatility was when Ukitake used a level 5 or so Kido to block Lilynette or when Shunsui switched hands to try and cheapshot Starrk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Not like he has ALL of their reiatsu. He has as much reiatsu as he can handle. He has bigger "container" for reiatsu, that Shinigamis are training. Their reiatsu was used to fill it up.
    Ichigo's reaitsu is several times stronger now than it was before the time skip, and his reiatsu before was enough to DESTROY Kenpachi's and Byakuya's Zanpakuto in a pure reiatsu confrontation, and could be felt from over a hundred miles from Las Noches. It was also confirmed to be at about 2x that of a captain, or around Aizen's and Yamamoto's level.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

  16. Like 2 Member(s) likes this post
  17. #11
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    Poland
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...16-page-5.html
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...16-page-9.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-616-8/...apter-162.html
    Except for maybe Byakuya, a Noble, exceptionally talented and supported by the manga, one of the best all around fighters and whom has polished his skill as far as it can get, and regarded as a genius too.
    Nobody is twisting facts but you.
    And which of those links show, that he has clearly bigger reiatsu than other captains?

    Quote Quote:
    Soifon is fast enough to make Yoruichi piss herself, has been used in the manga to demonstrate speed and is THE Shinigami that excels at speed during a fight. The only thing Byakuya has ever done that might have shown to be exceptionally fast was when he almost caught up with Yoruichi, who was carrying an unconscious Ichigo.
    The same Soifon, that was hopeless against Shunko Yoruichi. Nothing in manga indicates, that her speed is something that'd make Yoruichi piss herself. Or maybe you can't say difference between fighting an armed and unarmed opponent? Yoruichi IS faster, but not so fast to dodge every strike with Suzumebachi while blocking/evading other strikes. One has to be significantly faster to dodge eveyrthing. In Suzumebachi's case, blocking isn't an option. We'd get better picture if they both fought on equal ground. Byakuya outrun fastest Espada, using special corpses techniques, that even Yoruichi hasn't used in Soifon's case.



    Quote Quote:
    Byakuya is what happened when you give Hitsugaya a hundred years to perfect his powers and abilities. He's great at everything he does and capable of doing almost anything. He's one of the very few characters that can get close to Aizen in terms of Shinigami mastery.
    Nothing to support that claim. He IS genius, he IS strong, but saying he excels in everything by showing random panels is just overkill. His "mastery" in shinigami arts wasn't shown ANYWHERE. He excels in Shunpo, his Bankai is cool, but pure speed defeated it. And after losing that Bankai, his "Shinigami Arts" were totally useless.



    Quote Quote:
    The only injury Byakuya ever got was that scratch in the shoulder.
    That scratch made him unconscious? Get freakin' real. He lost because he was scared, because relying on ability wasn't an option against them.

    Quote Quote:
    Soifon stabbed Aizen in the gut, using a distraction, just like Shinji did. Aizen got cut because Shinji's Sakanade was disorienting at first, not because Shinji was exceptionally strong even without his mask.
    Where? He wasn't stabbed, he used his reiatsu to block.

    Shinji's ability makes his blow irrelevant, but Byakuya's feats based solely on his ability are big feats, that make him a genius. OK.


    Quote Quote:
    That much love towards vaguely human shaped arrangement of straws should be considered a medical condition. Byakuya was doing fine until he was scratched by an arrow that filled him with unnatural fear that distracted him, and eventually lost his calm and panicked. Also, only a few SR stole Bankai, and probably none of them had an ability as dangerous as As Nodt. Stop using the end result to try to prove a point, it won't work.
    So what can prove a point? Situation in the middle of the fight? In the end, Byakuya lost. YOU CAN'T SAY, that As Nodt had the most dangerous ability. No basis, so stop with that half-assed arguments, you're better than that, I hope.

    Quote Quote:
    Unohana had to be good at Kido to be able to heal so well. Urahara had to depend on Aizen's overconfidence to get a clean shot. And anybody would have been able to hurt Yamamoto with such a high level Kido.
    [/quote]

    Not like healing kidos are any use in battle. Maybe healing kido works on entirely different basis. Next baseless assumption from you. About Urahara. If it was any other Shinigami, that is few times SLOWER and WEAKER, he could have outsmarted him, ending it up with the same Kido, that would KILL Aizen, as he stated. Aizen was shown pretty good match for Yamamoto, so I'd go with "Urahara's Kido would kill Yamamoto". And even if he couldn't do it, he can use simplier and weaker ones to wound his opponent, result would be the same. He is fast, profficient, can use high level kidos, and can invent his own. Anyone else who can do this? Links, please. Not baseless assumption this time, please.

    Quote Quote:
    Byakuya is one of the best combatants all around, and that includes close combat. Neither Shunsui, Ukikake or Shinji had to deal with Ichigo's insane speed or As Nodt's mind numbing ability.
    They had to deal with infinite Cero, Shinji moped the floor with Grimmjow without Shikai, who defeated Ichigo in his Bankai with "Insane speed". The same Ichigo, that defeated Byakuya earlier, when Ichigo was WEAKER. All those three haven't used their Bankais yet. Byakuya showed everything he could.


    Quote Quote:
    You have a thousand years to prove it. But I know you will be unable to, because the closest those three got to display versatility was when Ukitake used a level 5 or so Kido to block Lilynette or when Shunsui switched hands to try and cheapshot Starrk.
    Read the manga again. Ukitake deflected Stark's Ceros, both of them fought with Yama and remained unscathed. Switching hands isn't "cheapshoting". Learn some martial art, that require sword fighting. Maybe not a martial art, but learn basis. It's normal, that people get used to some kinds of slashes. Twin-sword-styles prefer backslashes, it is shown in stances, even in Shunsui's fight against SR.

    Their abilities are making them dangerous at every range, double sword makes them deadly in close-combat. Byakuya has safety-zone, that makes him useless in close combat. Only if he uses non-Shikai form can he fight up close.

    Quote Quote:
    Ichigo's reaitsu is several times stronger now than it was before the time skip, and his reiatsu before was enough to DESTROY Kenpachi's and Byakuya's Zanpakuto in a pure reiatsu confrontation, and could be felt from over a hundred miles from Las Noches. It was also confirmed to be at about 2x that of a captain, or around Aizen's and Yamamoto's level.
    How do you know, that his reiatsu is SEVERAL TIMES STRONGER? Link, not baseless assumption. Do you remember? Or should I write it bolded with bigger letters?

    I didn't say, that Ichigo's reiatsu isn't stronger than captain's. I said, that his current reiatsu IS NOT a sum of all G13 reiatsu. They put a bit into that sword, not everything. It's not like he has 13 captain-level reiatsu, so he has 13x times captain-class reiatsu.

  18. Like 2 Member(s) likes this post
  19. #12
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    897
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    I don't get the argument about the vr invasion and byakuya. First of all he was one of the few with some one to protect in close proximity. Second, how many had their bankai used against them? Third, he got defeated by his bankai, not much can be gagued about him being weak or strong from that. If anything is to be taken from it it would be that senbonzakura is so strong that even some one not used to it can use it so efficiently that even a captain of byakuya skill can't do much.
    Last edited by Sanadan; April 27, 2013 at 02:07 PM.
    Meh

  20. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  21. #13
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Opportunist traveler.
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    And which of those links show, that he has clearly bigger reiatsu than other captains?
    I don't know if you're serious, but if you are, those pages show his reiatsu to be extremely high and so is his skill and talent, and several times while he's fighting. Either way, you're still ignoring the evidence that was presented, several times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    The same Soifon, that was hopeless against Shunko Yoruichi.
    "An unarmed person was killed by another with a gun, so he's weak". That's how you sound. Let that sink hard and deep. Maybe you should take a look at the fight and see how Yoruichi was basically forced to use Shunko, and only won because she activated it before Soifon (who was boasting about it).

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Nothing in manga indicates, that her speed is something that'd make Yoruichi piss herself.
    Except for the fact that she had to sacrifice her limbs one after another and run away because her speed was no match.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Or maybe you can't say difference between fighting an armed and unarmed opponent? Yoruichi IS faster, but not so fast to dodge every strike with Suzumebachi while blocking/evading other strikes.
    Soifon's Zanpakuto is worn on her finger and it's barely longer than it, if she manages to stab something, is because her hand was able to reach it in the first place, and once you look at the battle, you'll see that Soifon was not only faster, but also more agile and better at hand to hand combat. Even now her status as the fastest hadn't diminished until Kirinji arrived.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    One has to be significantly faster to dodge eveyrthing. In Suzumebachi's case, blocking isn't an option. We'd get better picture if they both fought on equal ground.
    Soifon was capable of counterattacking, Yoruichi could simply not keep up with Soifon's superior skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Byakuya outrun fastest Espada, using special corpses techniques, that even Yoruichi hasn't used in Soifon's case.
    He used a technique that hasn't been explained but leaves the clothes hanging where the strike happened. That does not equate to straight up outrunning the opponent, something Byakuya never managed to do against Zommari.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Nothing to support that claim. He IS genius, he IS strong, but saying he excels in everything by showing random panels is just overkill. His "mastery" in shinigami arts wasn't shown ANYWHERE. He excels in Shunpo, his Bankai is cool, but pure speed defeated it. And after losing that Bankai, his "Shinigami Arts" were totally useless.
    Except maybe for his PROVEN shunpo skill? How about his PROVEN spellcasting skilled where he blew up Renji's Bankai and Yammi with a level 33 Kido, or his battle with Zommari, or against Ichigo? His swordsmanship against Ichigo? Quick thinking? Agile? Strong? His skills have saved more asses than you care to remember. Up until now he's one of the very few characters that have fought with more than just a sword.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    That scratch made him unconscious? Get freakin' real. He lost because he was scared, because relying on ability wasn't an option against them.
    The fight was over the moment he was cut. Compare him to the rest of the captains that were bruised all over, and look at the volume edits where they are even more injured. Byakuya was doing fine until the fear took over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Where? He wasn't stabbed, he used his reiatsu to block.
    Aizen used his reiatsu to nullify the ability, not block. You are not, you cannot tell me this is not blood.
    Aizen is not made of diamonds, only Ichigo can't cut him because he's sword is made out of Play-Doh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Shinji's ability makes his blow irrelevant, but Byakuya's feats based solely on his ability are big feats, that make him a genius. OK.
    Shinji did not display any sort of skill that proves he's above anybody else besides the Hollow powers. But that's going too far from the point that he got a hit thanks to his ability, not his skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    So what can prove a point? Situation in the middle of the fight? In the end, Byakuya lost. YOU CAN'T SAY, that As Nodt had the most dangerous ability. No basis, so stop with that half-assed arguments, you're better than that, I hope.
    Both sad and ironic that you respond to an accusation of using strawman with another strawman and accuse me of half-assed arguments while responding with one yourself. The point is that Byakuya lost because ... and that you cannot say that he bit the dust after blatantly ignoring the details.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Not like healing kidos are any use in battle. Maybe healing kido works on entirely different basis. Next baseless assumption from you.
    Even though several characters have used Kido before to heal others, and that the techniques themselves are about concentrating reiatsu for a specific purpose, and Unohana is not only the best at it, but her skill with manipulating reiatsu is top notch as seen with the Garganta path. On top of that she had 1000 years where it's clear she did not just spend sitting around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    About Urahara. If it was any other Shinigami, that is few times SLOWER and WEAKER, he could have outsmarted him, ending it up with the same Kido, that would KILL Aizen, as he stated. Aizen was shown pretty good match for Yamamoto, so I'd go with "Urahara's Kido would kill Yamamoto". And even if he couldn't do it, he can use simplier and weaker ones to wound his opponent, result would be the same. He is fast, profficient, can use high level kidos, and can invent his own. Anyone else who can do this? Links, please. Not baseless assumption this time, please.
    Urahara had to use the full incantation for that spell and relied on Aizen's overconfidence. But don't change the subject, that alone is no reason to place Urahara anywhere when the whole point about this thread is "who's the strongest" and using distractions and tricks are not a display of strength.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    They had to deal with infinite Cero,
    Correction: Shunsui ran away for a couple of seconds before Ukitake redirected three, and WonderWeiss arrived, all in the span of a minute or less. They did not have to deal with a mind-scarring mindfuck that prevented them from thinking straight, except maybe Shunsui, but he also got his ass spread around a prison the moment WW stabbed Ukitake. And with the Hinamori-Hitsugaya scare. And when Yamamoto died. My bad, Shunsui had to go through a lot, but it still proves that he can also lose just as easily and that is not a valid strength measure like you are trying to push.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Shinji moped the floor with Grimmjow without Shikai, who defeated Ichigo in his Bankai with "Insane speed". The same Ichigo, that defeated Byakuya earlier, when Ichigo was WEAKER. All those three haven't used their Bankais yet. Byakuya showed everything he could.
    There are so many problems with this claim that I don't know where to start.
    First of all, that bullshit A > B, B > C so A > C logic, which doesn't work in the first place because you're blatantly ignoring the details again, and that you use all to prove that Byakuya has shown everything he could. But you are wrong in every point. Shinji almost beat an unreleased, near dead Grimmjow, and his Shikai is not even a power boosting type; Ichigo was NOT at his best when Grimmjow kicked his ass, which proves that you don't know what happened in that battle; Ichigo was not weaker without his mask, and beating Byakuya when he was at his best does not prove all around that Byukuya has nothing else to prove when even in his later battle with Tsukishima he displayed how he could always become stronger in battle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Read the manga again. Ukitake deflected Stark's Ceros,
    He deflected those Cero's with his Zanpakuto ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    both of them fought with Yama and remained unscathed.
    If by "unscathed" you mean "burnt" then yes. But no. Their fighting style is not strength based, they rely on a lot of cheating to win. Yamamoto had to be extremely careful in not falling to any single one of their tricks or it was game over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Switching hands isn't "cheapshoting". Learn some martial art, that require sword fighting. Maybe not a martial art, but learn basis. It's normal, that people get used to some kinds of slashes. Twin-sword-styles prefer backslashes, it is shown in stances, even in Shunsui's fight against SR.
    I don't need to know martial arts to know that using distractions and underhanded moves to put the opponent off guard is "cheapshotting". But this is straying too far from "versatile", which neither Shunsui, Ukitake or Shinji displayed besides their obvious skill with dual wielding, which doesn't compare to, say, Byakuya fighting with only a hand and a leg, and at the same time using high level Kido without incantation and quick thinking and speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Their abilities are making them dangerous at every range, double sword makes them deadly in close-combat. Byakuya has safety-zone, that makes him useless in close combat. Only if he uses non-Shikai form can he fight up close.
    Byakuya can break the safety zone every time he wants, and even without his Bankai, he is still an excellent swordsman and proficient at pretty much everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    How do you know, that his reiatsu is SEVERAL TIMES STRONGER? Link, not baseless assumption. Do you remember? Or should I write it bolded with bigger letters?
    I've dedicated a over a hundred posts to that subject and who knows how many tens of hours. I'm not going to take my time again writing the same argument and I'm not going stand your accusations of "baseless assumptions" because that is by far the biggest insult to me. Go read that thread with Ginjo vs Kenpachi or open any random thread and you'll find one of my posts there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    I didn't say, that Ichigo's reiatsu isn't stronger than captain's. I said, that his current reiatsu IS NOT a sum of all G13 reiatsu.
    I didn't say that either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    They put a bit into that sword, not everything. It's not like he has 13 captain-level reiatsu, so he has 13x times captain-class reiatsu.
    And yet, his reiatsu is several times stronger now, surpassing any captain by far. Proof provided in one of those threads.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

  22. #14
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    448
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    I just feel the need to point out that it is pretty clear that Byakuya is one of the more powerful captains. First of all, for him to be Ichigo's first nemesis and for his strength to be referred to repeatedly in the manga, he has to be a person of exceptional ability. Add to that the fact that Kubo often has Byakuya appear alongside Kenpachi and the two threaten and compete with each other suggests a certain standing amongst the captains. While not the youngest captain, he certainly is one of the younger ones and yet he has a well developed bankai which he excels in using. That he uses advanced flash steps he learned from Yoruichi is another sign of his ability. His reiatsu causes fear in even his own advanced level vice captain. He fires kido spells as high as Danku with no incantation and uses a combination of power, ability and sound strategy to undo his opponents.

    So, if he is so powerful, why did he lose to As Nodt, one might ask...

    The plot reason...It is as simple as this. Kubo had to have a powerful captain taken down by his own bankai to show the destructive force of the VR's attack. If Byakuya was not a masterful fighter, if he did not have exceptional abilities and a beautiful and destructive bankai, having him taken apart like that would have made no sense and would have been a waste of pages. Kubo could have chosen to crucify another fan fave like Hitsugaya, but Toshiro losing wouldn't have created the same sense of WTF because we have seen Hitsugaya lose and lose badly before. We have seen Komamura lose repeatedly. And Soi fon has a ridiculously big and unwieldy bankai that she doesn't even like. Byakuya has only lost to one opponent...Ichigo...nuff said. We are accustomed to him appearing when Rukia needs her ass hauled out of trouble, and he usually delivers flawlessly. So this was Kubo's use of that expectation to unleash the gripping chapter Hear Fear Here, where we watched Byakuya freeze in battle and take no less that three solid hits with Senbonzakura's lovely, devastating bankai power. Definitely not something we'd seen before.

    The Reason He Lost...If he was so powerful, why did he freeze like that? Remember that although on the outside Byakuya goes on about following the law and he seems aloof and apathetic, inside he is a very different person. He defied the law to marry Hisana and again to bring Rukia into the family. And after Ichigo defeats him, absolving him of the responsibility of going after Rukia, he repeatedly shows concern, not just for her, but for Renji and Ichigo as well. He is not overt about it, but he finds ways to express it (Like encouraging Renji and Rukia to go and help rescue Orihime.). And remember too, the fact that his first words to Ichigo when Ichigo arrived to find him beaten an dying were "Are Renji and Rukia still alive?" Byakuya has an obsessive need to protect the people he cares about, and he finds ways to do that, even when it violates his obedience to the law. This came into play in his battle with As Nodt.

    Byakuya didn't get overpowered by As Nodt's ability. He was taken off guard and injured because of it. It caused him to freeze up, but remember this?

    http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/501/15

    Byakuya clearly overcomes that debilitating fear and attacks As Nodt head on. (Perhaps not the best strategy, but he had been paralyzed by fear and tormented with his fears about Rukia dying, so he was pushed to the brink mentally.) And, recognizing that fear isn't enough to kill Byakuya (as the fear thorns had the lower level fighters), As Nodt turns, not his own Vollstandig or other powers, but the destructive power of Byakuya's own bankai on him. That puts Byakuya on his knees, but he isn't done yet. Faced then with a direct threat to Renji, someone he was shown to care deeply about, he gets up and attacks with his shikai, even knowing it isn't enough to stop his bankai. It appears to take two more hits with that bankai to put him down. Remember when Renji fought him, he was nearly killed with one hit with that same bankai (Remember also that Byakuya has had more than 17 months of training to improve it since he fought Renji.) This is not a battle in which a lower level captain falls, it is a heretofore exceptional captain, one of the most feared, falling to a bankai that, arguably, would have destroyed Ichigo if not for the interference of his inner hollow in his battle with Byakuya. Byakuya is a powerful captain, who in the fullbring arc showed that he still has the ability to grow as a fighter.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/472/17
    http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/472/18 (LOL, ends with a reference to his strength, no less!)

    He may not be THE most powerful among the captains, but he is ONE OF the most powerful captains, a point the manga has reinforced throughout. Byakuya's battle with As Nodt was the only thing I have ever read that had feelings of absolute terror making my heart pound and my knees feel weak while I was reading. The reason that worked was because he wasn't expected to be so thoroughly undone. I think Kubo did an excellent job of showing the VR's power by completely unhinging a character who we had been led to believe was so strong. I can't think of another captain who would have functioned so well in that role.

  23. Like 2 Member(s) likes this post
  24. #15
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    Poland
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest soul reapers

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    I don't know if you're serious, but if you are, those pages show his reiatsu to be extremely high and so is his skill and talent, and several times while he's fighting. Either way, you're still ignoring the evidence that was presented, several times.
    Yup, his reiatsu IS high. But not enough to say outright, that it's above other captains. Komamura could shake the ground with pure reiatsu, just as he could destroy the ground by standing on it, what Kenpachi praised. Kenpachi without eyepatch could use his PURE reiatsu like Byakuya uses Senbonzakura, with similar effect. He has bigger reiatsu.



    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    "An unarmed person was killed by another with a gun, so he's weak". That's how you sound. Let that sink hard and deep. Maybe you should take a look at the fight and see how Yoruichi was basically forced to use Shunko, and only won because she activated it before Soifon (who was boasting about it).
    Trust me, you sound really similar to me. :P

    Reread that fight. It was Soifon who activated it first. She was explaining it when Yoruichi activated it (It DOES have a name and then...), she nullified Soifon's attacks and defeated her. It's not like she was faster in activating it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Except for the fact that she had to sacrifice her limbs one after another and run away because her speed was no match.
    You have to be MUCH faster to avoid every strike. The difference isn't that great.


    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Soifon's Zanpakuto is worn on her finger and it's barely longer than it, if she manages to stab something, is because her hand was able to reach it in the first place, and once you look at the battle, you'll see that Soifon was not only faster, but also more agile and better at hand to hand combat. Even now her status as the fastest hadn't diminished until Kirinji arrived.
    Yup, that's why I said, that blocking a hit isn't enough. If it was hand-to-hand, the only hits Yoruichi would have gotten would be the wound on her chest I believe. Not sure how Soifon got her cheek, I don't have time to reread it, sorry. Failed dodge, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Soifon was capable of counterattacking, Yoruichi could simply not keep up with Soifon's superior skill.
    Yoruichi could counterattack too, but her options were limited. In this fight we won't reach conclusion, trust me. For me, someone who sparred in different scenarios, who trained against armed and unarmed opponents, that little metal on a finger and armor on a wrist makes it pretty difficult to counterattack freely and to block. In the end, Yoruichi is better Shunko user, and was always shown as the elder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    He used a technique that hasn't been explained but leaves the clothes hanging where the strike happened. That does not equate to straight up outrunning the opponent, something Byakuya never managed to do against Zommari.
    Yoruichi did the same thing against him. It's escape technique, opponent cuts afterimage, and its speed is too much for Zommari or Byakuya to follow.



    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Except maybe for his PROVEN shunpo skill? How about his PROVEN spellcasting skilled where he blew up Renji's Bankai and Yammi with a level 33 Kido, or his battle with Zommari, or against Ichigo? His swordsmanship against Ichigo? Quick thinking? Agile? Strong? His skills have saved more asses than you care to remember. Up until now he's one of the very few characters that have fought with more than just a sword.
    And which of those feats are showing, that he is ABOVE OTHER CAPTAINS? Shunpo skill? Would he outrun Kyoraku or Ukitake? You don't know. Would he outrun Kenpachi? While running to HM they came at the same time. Would he outrun CURRENT Kenpachi? Would he outrun Soifon?

    Byakuya is shown as one who uses Kido in battles. Do you know, if others suck at it? They fight differently.

    Swordmanship? Kyoraku is far better swordman. And don't even bring up Stark fight, because you don't understand anything about mutu or sword fighting. I don't like, when people discuss on topics they only believe they know something, because they read the damn manga...

    Still nothing to indicate, that he is above other captains. Or above senior captains. It's just sound more and more ridicoulous, that he is closest to Yama and Aizen level in Shinigami Mastery. xD

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    The fight was over the moment he was cut. Compare him to the rest of the captains that were bruised all over, and look at the volume edits where they are even more injured. Byakuya was doing fine until the fear took over.
    Bruises and cuts are different things. He was cut because he was too slow. Komamura got his ear cut. Shunsui is now blind in one eye. The rest doesn't seem to have more bruises or to be beaten that badly. Except Kenpachi, who fought leader and is now perfectly fine.



    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Aizen used his reiatsu to nullify the ability, not block. You are not, you cannot tell me this is not blood.
    Seriously now, where do you see BLOOD? I see blood after Kyoraku attack. Not to mention, that after being trapped in the ice, it turned out it's Hinamori.

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-47010-...apter-392.html

    He is later UNSCATHED, alive and kickin'. Not to mention, that he couldn't really switch, he was making them believe he was there. That fight was completely rigged and fake. But you really want to make Soifon's attack her big feat? He wanted them to let their guard down, he made them believe they cut him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Shinji did not display any sort of skill that proves he's above anybody else besides the Hollow powers. But that's going too far from the point that he got a hit thanks to his ability, not his skill.
    Just like everything BYakuya did. Thanks to ability, not his skill. Only his fight with Zommari showed, that he is intelligent, profficient in Kido and fast. Not the fastest, not the most intelligent, not the best in KIdo. If not for Senbonzakura, he would get taken over, sooner or later, but his ability was the worst match for Zommari.


    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Both sad and ironic that you respond to an accusation of using strawman with another strawman and accuse me of half-assed arguments while responding with one yourself. The point is that Byakuya lost because ... and that you cannot say that he bit the dust after blatantly ignoring the details.
    He lost because he wasn't strong enough. His Shikai ability wasn't any good against As Nodt's basic ability. His sword couldn't even cut As.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Even though several characters have used Kido before to heal others, and that the techniques themselves are about concentrating reiatsu for a specific purpose, and Unohana is not only the best at it, but her skill with manipulating reiatsu is top notch as seen with the Garganta path. On top of that she had 1000 years where it's clear she did not just spend sitting around.
    And you are sure she had to be profficient Kido user. The one, who always fought with sword, who changed her nature after some incident. She decided to HEAL, and not to FIGHT, but you think she HAD TO learn BADASS Kidos used to FIGHT and KILL others. Makes sense to me. She is good at handling reiatsu, she could learn it, but she is not profficient or experienced in using it, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Urahara had to use the full incantation for that spell and relied on Aizen's overconfidence. But don't change the subject, that alone is no reason to place Urahara anywhere when the whole point about this thread is "who's the strongest" and using distractions and tricks are not a display of strength.
    Well, so we have to discard everything and put KENPACHI ZARAKI everywhere. If we discard abilities, he is beast, and Byakuya is nothing dangerous. You say, that some abilities are tricks and distractions, intelligence in fight is called trickery, but if Byakuya uses tricks like in fight with Tsukishima, you call him quick-thinking and intelligent. If Urahara made opponent let his guard down, put him under 4 Bakudos, and then use Hado with full incantation (and he would have had time for that after binding him), you'd call that cheating and not something that'd make him strong. That's your problem, from like always? Every discussion you had is changing facts to your favor, interpreting similar facts differently to suit your argument, showing ignorance and how you don't know a thing about fighting. Be it armed or unarmed. Wakizashi, tachi, nodachi, naginata, shinai, tonfa, single sword styles, twin-sword styles, kendo, aido. You know nothing. Your knowledge is based on your own impression and wrong ideas.



    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Correction: Shunsui ran away for a couple of seconds before Ukitake redirected three, and WonderWeiss arrived, all in the span of a minute or less. They did not have to deal with a mind-scarring mindfuck that prevented them from thinking straight, except maybe Shunsui, but he also got his ass spread around a prison the moment WW stabbed Ukitake. And with the Hinamori-Hitsugaya scare. And when Yamamoto died. My bad, Shunsui had to go through a lot, but it still proves that he can also lose just as easily and that is not a valid strength measure like you are trying to push.
    Dodging in Byakuya's case is running away in Kyoraku's. Remember the part about interpreting things differently? Of course he'd lose his cool after his best friend, and pretty much only friend, would almost get killed. Just as he'd lose it when his "father", sensei and mentor would DIE. When Yama was in danger, he almost killed his opponent, that was bleeding from DEEP wound to his stomach. When he lost his cool, he got shot 3 times I believe,but was still alive. But when Byakuya was in danger and lost his cool, he...



    Quote Quote:
    There are so many problems with this claim that I don't know where to start.
    First of all, that bullshit A > B, B > C so A > C logic, which doesn't work in the first place because you're blatantly ignoring the details again, and that you use all to prove that Byakuya has shown everything he could. But you are wrong in every point. Shinji almost beat an unreleased, near dead Grimmjow, and his Shikai is not even a power boosting type; Ichigo was NOT at his best when Grimmjow kicked his ass, which proves that you don't know what happened in that battle; Ichigo was not weaker without his mask, and beating Byakuya when he was at his best does not prove all around that Byukuya has nothing else to prove when even in his later battle with Tsukishima he displayed how he could always become stronger in battle.
    That logic works to judge simple matters, not people overall. You read somewhere, that this logic is bad and started to write it everywhere, like a kid, that was told, that God exists. He doesn't know why, but he still says it and believes it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    He deflected those Cero's with his Zanpakuto ability.
    I forgot, Ukitake's ability is hax, Byakuya ability is skill. Kyoraku's dodging is running away, Byakuya's dodging is skill and speed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    If by "unscathed" you mean "burnt" then yes. But no. Their fighting style is not strength based, they rely on a lot of cheating to win. Yamamoto had to be extremely careful in not falling to any single one of their tricks or it was game over.
    \

    We discussed it before. They were burnt just by being there, but they got no cuts. And I don't believe they were serious. They were hesitant to use even Shikai, let alone fight. Yama was serious, as he values rules, and his past is now known to us. He is not so gentle, he is the same person, that found peace in few people and some rules, that he believes in. If those people betrayed him, the only thing he can value are rules, so he'd follow them, as they gave him steady and peaceful life.



    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    I don't need to know martial arts to know that using distractions and underhanded moves to put the opponent off guard is "cheapshotting". But this is straying too far from "versatile", which neither Shunsui, Ukitake or Shinji displayed besides their obvious skill with dual wielding, which doesn't compare to, say, Byakuya fighting with only a hand and a leg, and at the same time using high level Kido without incantation and quick thinking and speed.
    Yup, underhanded moves and disctractions again... You really are hopeless. Shinji doesn't dualwield. His abilities, as leader of Vaizards, current captain and someone, who hasn't shown his Bankai yet, are topnotch. His ability is hax, yup, but ability that boosts something else than firepower is "cheat" for you, right.


    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Byakuya can break the safety zone every time he wants, and even without his Bankai, he is still an excellent swordsman and proficient at pretty much everything.
    Yes, he can, but it was something new to him. He won that fight by distracting opponent and using strange tactic. For me it is still good feat, but if it was Kyoraku, you'd call it a cheat. Is he a good swordsman? He couldn't cut As Nodt. Nothing in manga proves, that he is skilled in swords, as he NEVER had real fight with JUST his sword.



    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    I've dedicated a over a hundred posts to that subject and who knows how many tens of hours. I'm not going to take my time again writing the same argument and I'm not going stand your accusations of "baseless assumptions" because that is by far the biggest insult to me. Go read that thread with Ginjo vs Kenpachi or open any random thread and you'll find one of my posts there.
    I don't care. Show me on what you based your argument, just that.



    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    And yet, his reiatsu is several times stronger now, surpassing any captain by far. Proof provided in one of those threads.
    Of course it is. I'm just saying, that if captain reiatsu is C, and VC's reiatsu is C/2, Ichigo doesn't have 13x(C+C/2) times reiatsu of a normal captain. He has 2-3, maybe 4 times bigger reiatsu, maybe, but nothing can prove it. He always had outrageous reiatsu, so we know he has at least twice as much as captain, but we DON'T KNOW how much his reiatsu grew after Aizen arc and FB.
    Last edited by Duniak; April 29, 2013 at 08:25 AM.

  25. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
New Reply
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts