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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
I just LOVE it when someone posts links to defend their viewpoint, well done with the reiatsu/ byakuya,
I will put forward that byakuya may have had stronger reiatsu, but now that kenpachi is not holding himself back anymore and has finally heard his zanpaktou, I think at worst they are even, at best he might be slightly stronger now.
I would consider the others but we havent seen their bankai yet or or see them go full power
Links presented by Torran have literally NOTHING to do with defending his point, which was "Byakuya is standing in higher tier than other captains in terms of reiatsu".
If somebody says, that I wrote, that Byakuya isn't strong or genius, I'll call him complete idiot, that is unable to read. Looong posts about Byakuya vs As or Byakuya ts Tsukishima are not needed.
Just one, last thing about Tsukishima's last words. "I never thought that you, of all people, could fight like that". Tsukishima just said, that he hadn't thought, thatByakuya could use distraction and such tactics in real fight. You call that "quickthinking and intelligence", right Torran? Just like you seem to forget, that Byakuya could have been killed in 5 seconds after Ichigo's bankai was activated, but you keep pointing out how Tousen could kill Kenpachi instantly. In first case it's OK, in second it's Tousen's outstanding strength, Kenpachi being weak, and plothole, freakin' plot armor and so on.
Last edited by Duniak; April 29, 2013 at 08:45 AM.
Byakuya was the only Shinigami that was in a spot where he had to protect a considerable weaker shinigami, he was weighed down.
If it is them vs each other I think that these guys will be on equal footing after the training, this is largely an assumption but their clashing personalities and already established rivalry Id dare say that when Kenpachi became a lot stronger, so did Byakuya.
If they do go head to head one has to eek it out in the end.....or it's a double KO but Kenpachis ability to not die and come back stronger would give him an edge, but for it to happen he needs at least an equal opponent.
Now that Kenpachi has shikai or even bankai and is few times stronger, how can Byakuya be as strong as him? Fanboys can dream, but it's just wishful thinking, I just can't imagine it.
What took him down?
Misinformation...The four captains who went out first were led to believe that the device the SRs had was a seal. If they had known a) that it would steal bankai and b) that bankai could then be used against them, not one of them would have risked using it. And there is evidence that Byakuya could injure and fight against As Nodt without bankai...
Had he remained in shikai, he would likely have fared as well as the other three against his opponent. Indeed, As Nodt couldn't have defeated him with fear alone...
The fact that he did not use his Vollstandig, but used Byakuya's bankai to defeat him, implies that he doubted whether his own power was strong enough. He mentioned that the SRs had data on the captains, so this is a reasonable conclusion. He judged Byakuya too powerful to beat with his own power, so he resorted to using the stolen power.
Sure, Kenpachi beat three SRs, however, the first two did not use any form of strategy, so only one approached the level of As Nodt's lethality. Add to that, the fact that Byakuya and the other three went in blind and with bad intel, while Kenpachi knew how dangerous the situation was. Where Byakuya was trying to draw out the enemy and force him to show his abilities, Kenpachi went for the kill immediately.
But enough about all that...
You try to say that 'strength' is about their reiatsu and that because Kenpachi has crazy reiatsu, he is the strongest. But, if , as you also said, he does not apply his ability properly, that cancels out a lot of that power. Byakuya, as you said, was at his level in HM, but not because of reiatsu. It was speed, skill and durability. And just as Kenpachi is picking up more brute power (his 'strength'), Byakuya will improve in his areas of expertise. Will he equal Kenpachi's reiatsu? No. Will he fight at Kenpachi's level, using enhanced speed, skill and durability? Most likely. Therefore, while not the top in reiatsu, he will still be among the 'strongest.'
1 Yamamoto nuff said
I don't count transcedent biengs like aizen or ichigo since they are obviously much stronger in my opinion and they aren't shinigami. Neiither are the vizards really shinigami
These two friendly rivals are BOTH powerful and BOTH are somewhere getting the training they need to fight on par with the VR. As to Kenpachi taking on Haschwald or Bach, I would like to see him trash Bach. I wouldn't feel that him doing that makes Byakuya look significantly less powerful. I will repeat myself in clear terms so that you can't misunderstand, even if you purposely try. Byakuya may not reach Kenpachi's level and who the heck cares if he doesn't face the 'big bad?' Only Ichigo is going to do that. The manga's all about Ichigo. What I said and I still say is that Byakuya and Kenpachi, when powered up in their own unique ways, will fight on the same level, using their unique skills. And if you pay attention at all to the manga, you know that fighting at someone's level does not mean 'Fighter A' is equal to 'Fighter B.' It means that, with full use of their unique abilities, one would not easily trounce the other. And given that Byakuya is recovering in ROYAL REALM, getting trained at a ROYAL LEVEL, I think that whether he is as strong as Kenpachi or not, the two could have a satisfying battle with each other, for kicks, after the war is over.
And one final note: It is really unintelligent to say that a character has reached his limit when you are not the mangaka, himself. Kubo will decide when any character has reached the top of his potential. And I would say that a character who developed and mastered bankai at a relatively young age and is receiving help from Squad Zero to power up for war has equal potential to grow as Kenpachi does down in Muken (Wait, don't tell me. You didn't see the hint of humor Kubo used in having Byakuya training in something like heaven while Kenpachi trains in something closer to hell...?). I don't have anything against Kenpachi at all. In fact, I have written a few fanfics about their rivalry. By putting Byakuya down as you do and putting Kenpachi on a pedestal way above him, you really miss out on the fun interplay between the characters.
Last edited by Firebird0ne; May 01, 2013 at 09:52 AM.
"1. Byakuya being slower than Soifon
2. Soifon being faster than Yoruichi
3. Byakuya having bigger reiatsu than Kenpachi and other captains.
4. Byakuya second best ability in manga.
5. Unohana being on par with Yama and Aizen in terms of Kido
6. Byakuya and Urahara being lower than Unohana and Yamamoto in Kido. "
The title of this thread is "Strongest Soul Reapers" and I pointed out what makes Byakuya one of the strongest soul reapers...speed, skill, and durability. Your accusation that I said you said Byakuya was not strong is completely false. I took issue with the fact that you underestimate him and call any improvement he will make 'plothole' and 'fanservice.' Kubo does not write solely to please his fans. He is aware of them and I am sure he tries to listen for things that come out as things fans like, dislike and want more explanation of, but he does not favor one character or another due to 'fanservice.' He did say in an early interview I read that Byakuya is one of HIS fave characters, so if he gives Byakuya a break not dying or a powerup you would call a plothole, that's his prerogative, of course. He is the mangaka.
As to your litany of what I should and should not discuss, you are not a site manager or anyone better than anyone else. This thread is called "Strongest Soul Reapers" and my posts are about what makes Byakuya one of the strongest soul reapers. I do not have to qualify that by comparing him to anyone else. I can and did provide proof earlier on that supports my claim that Byakuya is one of the strongest soul reapers and after his powerup will certainly fight as one of the strongest soul reapers. The other items you mentioned are irrelevant, except to you, and I feel no compulsion to address your issues.
Last edited by Firebird0ne; May 01, 2013 at 10:00 AM.
And I understand it, but it just is not very logical to me. To me, all that build-up about Kenpachi, that has been there for entire series, giving him Bankai and lifting his limiter would be WASTED, if Byakuya was as strong.Quote:
I DON'T DARE TO QUESTION BYAKUYA BEING ONE OF THE STRONGEST FFS. What I question is his high/low place in few categories, that Torran made in his post. Overally he is one of the strongest. You don't have to give me proof as to why he is strong. I completely get it. Your whole post, just as that last one are completely missing the point and sound like I really did say, that Byakuya isn't strong.Quote:
Last edited by Duniak; May 01, 2013 at 02:05 PM.
I think you are mistaken in saying that if Byakuya gets as strong as Kenpachi, then lifting Kenpachi's limiter would be wasted. The title of Kenpachi is not just about power, but about a state of being. Unohana and Zaraki are not just powerful fighters, they also live to fight, and they are bored if the fight is not one in which they are challenged. Unohana combatted this by improving her kido to heal her opponent repeatedly as she did to Kenpachi while fighting him. And Kenpachi, as you know, held himself back purposely to make fights more interesting. Lifting the limiter just helped him grow beyond that, as Unohana might call it, 'childish attitude' that battle must be fun, so that he could connect with the spirit in his zanpakutou and reach his potential. That's one road to power, and a pretty impressive one.
Byakuya is a noble lord, devoted to service to his noble family and to the soul king. That the soul king included him on the list of personnel to be evacuated for healing and strengthening by the RG makes perfect sense. And his improvement to be able to fight at Kenpachi's level is just achieved a different way, because he is a different individual.
I don't think that them fighting on the same level or having the same basic status is any issue at all. But that's fine if you don't agree. You certainly are entitled to your opinion.
Because he couldn't be healed otherwise. Fact, that he was taken there to train too, we assume, or we choose to believe. I also doubt he won't train as he is already there. If that training can get him off the charts strength, I doubt. They should have more people then. Those Quincies are already enough to endanger SK.Quote:
All we can do is wait for them to appear together. Kenpachi going out of underground prison, Tenchuuren falling next to him, and Kenpachi and Byakuya running towards battlefield. Shit, I can totally see it. But I still think Kenpachi's build-up would be wasted if he wasn't the strong one to take Haschwald.
Heehee! I see your point there! OMG, he would probably just repeat the insult about not being there to take Haschwald on (I'm not here for you, you pale little sh#!), one shot him and look around for Bach! LOL! Okay, totally with you on that. I can't wait until we get out of the Isshin/Masaki goopy love story and back to the cool fighting that makes Bleach such an awesome manga.
I don't get your point about the training not being efficient because their not letting everyone do it. We have already seen what the healing alone can do for a guy like Renji.