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Thread: How strong is Sasuke?

  1. #541
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/415/5 That was the onlt tentacle that was cut, the others were burn oof by Amaterasu. So te hottest flames in the world don'tleave burn marks? Yea right.
    No signs of getting his ass kicked? http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/415/3 yea rigt.

    Our friend and his group left the village without hiding.
    Everything i've said is all manga facts,and ifyou can't except that then theres nohing more to say.
    that was all Bee's acting in the second link.
    Naruto Forever


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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Quote Originally Posted by darkprince0521 View Post
    that was all Bee's acting in the second link.
    Yea that's why he's in angoy saying"Gaaah". You going o need some kind of proof.

  3. #543
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    To be honest though, Sasuke would fare better than Naruto in almost any fight. This does not mean Naruto would lose, just that he wouldn't do as well as Sasuke. Even against mini-Ichibi, Sasuke would fare much better because he has the speed and as result higher chances of avoiding the sand coffin. Sasuke would fare better against Kakuzu because he's more versatile as well, although he'd need multiple attempts while Naruto just needs one successful FRS. As far as we know, Sasuke is more like Kakashi, pretty versatile even if Sharingan affords them the extra versatility like ability to cast genjutsu.

    You can't deny that Sasuke is the most versatile among his age group in Konoha. Long range, mid range, short range, taijutsu, and ninjutsu... if he picks up extra skills, he'd probably be extremely dangerous without Sharingan. I'd consider Jiraiya and Kakashi to be more versatile than Sasuke, to be honest, considering the other things they can do as ninjas.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/415/5 That was the onlt tentacle that was cut, the others were burn oof by Amaterasu. So te hottest flames in the world don'tleave burn marks? Yea right.
    No signs of getting his ass kicked? http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/415/3 yea rigt.

    Our friend and his group left the village without hiding.
    Everything i've said is all manga facts,and ifyou can't except that then theres nohing more to say.

    Hachibi states he lost several limbs (though not necessarily tentacles.) Can you show me Bee or Hachibi having any burn marks ?

    Yes, they didn't hide. They came with their heads in the sky, and left with one of them turned to plastic, the other became half the man he was (literally), the girl was almost burned alive, and their leader had three times as many holes in his body that he ever had.

    There is hardly anything you said that can be considered manga facts. Of course, neither is what I said.

  5. #545
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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma View Post
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/463/12

    Yeah. Amaterasu is instantaneous. Oh wait? No it isn't. As long as one can run faster than Sasuke can turn his head, one will never get hit by Amaterasu. Fact.

    Also, it is a safe assumption that if the Raikage has knowledge of the Amaterasu then Bee should also have that. You accuse me of distorting facts when you claim that the Amaterasu is instantaneous and that Killer Bee fled from the fight when it was clearly stated that Killer Bee wanted to use that opportunity to escape from the village.

    Please show me one moment where Bee was taking the fight seriously and Sasuke managed to keep up. And again, even though the sword wounds weren't fatal by themselves, they left Sasuke unable to even get back up and fight. He had clearly lost by then already. He was only saved by Suigetsu. Saying that Sasuke was still injured by his fight against Itachi holds little to no water. There were no signs of that.

    There is no way around the fact that Bee defeated Sasuke twice without even going all-out. Number Eight Version 2 or whatever he calls it would have been far better suited against Taka and I doubt Sasuke would've managed to hit Bee with an Amaterasu if he had used Version 2. Sasuke was a complete beginner with Amaterasu at that point. The thing that saved Sasuke's ass in that fight was that it was completely plot-driven and Kishimoto could not have had Bee annihilate Sasuke. Bee didn't go all-out in that fight and still came out victorious. Going into that clumsy Ox-form makes his attacks more powerful, but he is far too clumsy to fight someone like Sasuke like that.
    It's not about moving fast, it's about having forewarning. We saw that when Naruto was against Edo Itachi.

    And Ee didn't have knowledge of Amaterasu, he only knew something was up due to MS and prepared for it. Amaterasu is instantaneous, it's been that way from the beginning, and again, Kirabi makes it clear he came up with the idea on the fly. His conversation with the Hachibi shows he was fighting serious, the Hachibi berates him for it. As mentioned, he was not as down as you're trying to make it. Not only did he help in his own defense, but Kirabi states it wasn't fatal. And I'm wondering if you read the chapter, because Juugo outright mentions how Sasuke hadn't heal from his fight with Itachi and Sasuke acknowledges it.

    A full transformation is going all out, why do you think it's what the Hachibi wanted to do against Kisame before being outvoted? If the Second Version was useful, then surely Kirabi would have used it again by now, like in a fight to save the world, right? Ee literally had to prepare his fastest shunshin and wait for it to be shot to dodge Amaterasu, Kirabi wouldn't have had any chance, especially with his fighting style. And what's with this "complete beginner" remark? Bloodline techniques are instinctual, as repeatedly shown. He doesn't need to have used it before to expertly use it, just like he showed with Enton and Susanoo. Making such an assumption is foolish. The fact that you ignore that Sasuke had more limitations put on him then Kirabi says quite a bit. Whereas it was made clear Kirabi was going all out, we know for a fact that Sasuke was holding back. And it's not even as if allowing Sasuke to survive requires him to be allowed to win, the summit showed that. Regardless, the fact remains that Kirabi was fighting to win until he was forced to run away. That was not his goal, but something he came up with on the fly as admitted by himself. That's not a victory.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    Hachibi states he lost several limbs (though not necessarily tentacles.) Can you show me Bee or Hachibi having any burn marks ?

    Yes, they didn't hide. They came with their heads in the sky, and left with one of them turned to plastic, the other became half the man he was (literally), the girl was almost burned alive, and their leader had three times as many holes in his body that he ever had.

    There is hardly anything you said that can be considered manga facts. Of course, neither is what I said.
    The tentacles are it's limbs... And the Hachbi is only shown from the head up after that.

    Doesn't matter how they left the fight, that only shows it was tough, which was admitted.

  6. #546
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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Amaterasu doesn't hit instantly, it's summoned instantaneously but it works like a projectile too, apparently. Otherwise Raikage would not have been able to dodge it, nor would it have flown to the samurai behind the Raikage. It being summoned quickly and lack of knowledge is probably what adds to its speed.

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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    I don't think it's just summoned. All the examples we've seen have it moving outward with momentum and force, so I think it's reasonable to assume it's shot from the eye and covers a distance in a blink.

  8. #548
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Not sure if it's shot from the eyes as it can appear a bit far away from the eyes as well. Plus, that'd be dangerous with the flames and all, yanno?

  9. #549
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Amaterasu doesn't hit instantly, it's summoned instantaneously but it works like a projectile too, apparently. Otherwise Raikage would not have been able to dodge it, nor would it have flown to the samurai behind the Raikage. It being summoned quickly and lack of knowledge is probably what adds to its speed.
    Amaterasu, according to the manga, converges/appears/spawns exactly on the point the eye is focused, and then follows the line of sight. It is not a projectile.

    ---------- Post added at 02:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by darkprince0521 View Post
    that was all Bee's acting in the second link.
    Oh dear God.

    ---------- Post added at 02:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma View Post
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/463/12

    Yeah. Amaterasu is instantaneous. Oh wait? No it isn't. As long as one can run faster than Sasuke can turn his head, one will never get hit by Amaterasu. Fact.

    Also, it is a safe assumption that if the Raikage has knowledge of the Amaterasu then Bee should also have that. You accuse me of distorting facts when you claim that the Amaterasu is instantaneous and that Killer Bee fled from the fight when it was clearly stated that Killer Bee wanted to use that opportunity to escape from the village.

    Please show me one moment where Bee was taking the fight seriously and Sasuke managed to keep up. And again, even though the sword wounds weren't fatal by themselves, they left Sasuke unable to even get back up and fight. He had clearly lost by then already. He was only saved by Suigetsu. Saying that Sasuke was still injured by his fight against Itachi holds little to no water. There were no signs of that.

    There is no way around the fact that Bee defeated Sasuke twice without even going all-out. Number Eight Version 2 or whatever he calls it would have been far better suited against Taka and I doubt Sasuke would've managed to hit Bee with an Amaterasu if he had used Version 2. Sasuke was a complete beginner with Amaterasu at that point. The thing that saved Sasuke's ass in that fight was that it was completely plot-driven and Kishimoto could not have had Bee annihilate Sasuke. Bee didn't go all-out in that fight and still came out victorious. Going into that clumsy Ox-form makes his attacks more powerful, but he is far too clumsy to fight someone like Sasuke like that.
    Actually, it is. It converges on the exact point the eye is focused. It simply appears or spawns on the focus point. Yes, because Killer Bee is as fast as Raikage in V2 Raiton Shroud, into which he was pumping Bijuu level chakra and even then, used Body Flicker to escape from his sight. Some facts you have.

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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    You're once again misunderstanding me. When I said that there were no signs of Sasuke's injuries I meant that there weren't really any signs of his injuries during the battle. He was able to use all of his techniques without exception and he was arguably as fast as he can be. That conversation seemed to have been put in there for the sole purpose of saving face due to Sasuke's complete defeat. If Amaterasu is instantaneous, then how could the Raikage have escaped from it AFTER it was already moving towards him? The link I posted earlier clearly shows Amaterasu almost touching the Raikage in one panel, and then him disappearing in the next. Had it been instantaneous, then he wouldn't have dodged it. Amaterasu is thus not instantaneous.

    And once again, it doesn't matter if Sasuke being impaled by six swords or not was not fatal. At that point, he was unable to continue the fight. He struggled badly to merely raise his head and bite Karin's arm. If I were to shoot you in your knees, the wounds by themselves wouldn't be fatal. You still wouldn't be able to get back up and continue the fight. My question also remains. Many of you claimed that Sasuke was holding his own until he was caught by surprise. Please provide me with anything substantial that shows Sasuke holding his own against Bee?

    Obviously, Bee hasn't used Version 2 since his fight against Kisame because he hasn't needed to. As I said, the full Ox-form provides far more firepower via the Tailed Beast Bomb, but Version 2 is far more suited to fight fast opponents like Sasuke. You are merely assuming that Bee thought of the plan after his tentacle was cut. But there's also the possibilithy that him getting "defeated" by Sasuke was part of his plan. Regardless, how can you claim that Bee got his ass kicked by Sasuke given that Sasuke stood no chance whatsoever and was both immobilized and then killed. But hey, Bee escaped the village and thus Sasuke must have won, right?

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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Bee escape the fight, then the village so yea Team Taka won not Sasuke.

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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Amaterasu does work as a projectile in a way. It may not work like a gun, but it still moves in whatever direction the user wants it to.

    Wouldn't Sasuke have died from the sword stabs? He had to be healed to even get back into the fight, and his wound/s looked pretty serious.

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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma View Post
    You're once again misunderstanding me. When I said that there were no signs of Sasuke's injuries I meant that there weren't really any signs of his injuries during the battle. He was able to use all of his techniques without exception and he was arguably as fast as he can be. That conversation seemed to have been put in there for the sole purpose of saving face due to Sasuke's complete defeat. If Amaterasu is instantaneous, then how could the Raikage have escaped from it AFTER it was already moving towards him? The link I posted earlier clearly shows Amaterasu almost touching the Raikage in one panel, and then him disappearing in the next. Had it been instantaneous, then he wouldn't have dodged it. Amaterasu is thus not instantaneous.

    And once again, it doesn't matter if Sasuke being impaled by six swords or not was not fatal. At that point, he was unable to continue the fight. He struggled badly to merely raise his head and bite Karin's arm. If I were to shoot you in your knees, the wounds by themselves wouldn't be fatal. You still wouldn't be able to get back up and continue the fight. My question also remains. Many of you claimed that Sasuke was holding his own until he was caught by surprise. Please provide me with anything substantial that shows Sasuke holding his own against Bee?

    Obviously, Bee hasn't used Version 2 since his fight against Kisame because he hasn't needed to. As I said, the full Ox-form provides far more firepower via the Tailed Beast Bomb, but Version 2 is far more suited to fight fast opponents like Sasuke. You are merely assuming that Bee thought of the plan after his tentacle was cut. But there's also the possibilithy that him getting "defeated" by Sasuke was part of his plan. Regardless, how can you claim that Bee got his ass kicked by Sasuke given that Sasuke stood no chance whatsoever and was both immobilized and then killed. But hey, Bee escaped the village and thus Sasuke must have won, right?
    I already explained that Amaterasu appears on the point of Focus. The Samurai got hit by the flames, as the 'point of focus' altered because of Raikage's high speed maneuver. You need to understand Amaterasu properties. It spawns on the target. It basically appears out of the ether and starts to burn. Raikage evaded with such a high speed, for which, he had to use the quantity of chakra that according to Karin was at 'Biju level'. Do you think anyone else would be able to accomplish this? Or will Raikage be able to even keep on moving by pumping this much chakra into his Raiton armour? He would be dead after running dry after another two or three evasions.

    It doesn't matter what you believe. Manga's page is clear as day.

    Has the manga ever, even once, aligned Bee's speed with Raikage's? He himself states that he thought of the plan 'on the fly'. Again, it's not my statement, but the manga's. What the fight culminated into is the actual factor here. Cling to your opinions if you feel like it.

    ---------- Post added at 04:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Amaterasu does work as a projectile in a way. It may not work like a gun, but it still moves in whatever direction the user wants it to.

    Wouldn't Sasuke have died from the sword stabs? He had to be healed to even get back into the fight, and his wound/s looked pretty serious.
    That is after it has already spawned. It follows the 'line of sight' then. But its source doesn't lie in the eye. As you can see in Itachi fight, a trail of Amaterasu is following him, but it's not connected to Itachi's eye. Henceforth, the actual spawning is not projectile like if you look at its properties.

  14. #554
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma
    You're once again misunderstanding me. When I said that there were no signs of Sasuke's injuries I meant that there weren't really any signs of his injuries during the battle. He was able to use all of his techniques without exception and he was arguably as fast as he can be.
    Well, the conundrum is whether to believe you (who at that point had nothing to measure healthy Sasuke's speed against an injured Sasuke inorder to tell a difference), or Juugo, who has first hand knowledge of Sasuke's speed prior to injury, and thus would know whether he was doing worse or not.

    Character with first hand knowledge... or you. Hm...

    Quote Quote:
    That conversation seemed to have been put in there for the sole purpose of saving face due to Sasuke's complete defeat. If Amaterasu is instantaneous, then how could the Raikage have escaped from it AFTER it was already moving towards him? The link I posted earlier clearly shows Amaterasu almost touching the Raikage in one panel, and then him disappearing in the next. Had it been instantaneous, then he wouldn't have dodged it. Amaterasu is thus not instantaneous.
    Well, that's just semantics. NOTHING in the manga is instantaneous. Not even Kirin, Kuchiyose, or Hiraishin. Things claimed to be instantaneous are actually just really really fast. Hell, basic Shunshin is stated to be instantaneous, and yet Hiraishin is supposed to be an enhanced version of Shunshin. You can't become any more instantaneous than instant.

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  16. #555
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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Not sure if it's shot from the eyes as it can appear a bit far away from the eyes as well. Plus, that'd be dangerous with the flames and all, yanno?
    It's probably like shunshin, where the subject instantly appears somewhere without showing the movement from point A to B.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma View Post
    You're once again misunderstanding me. When I said that there were no signs of Sasuke's injuries I meant that there weren't really any signs of his injuries during the battle. He was able to use all of his techniques without exception and he was arguably as fast as he can be. That conversation seemed to have been put in there for the sole purpose of saving face due to Sasuke's complete defeat. If Amaterasu is instantaneous, then how could the Raikage have escaped from it AFTER it was already moving towards him? The link I posted earlier clearly shows Amaterasu almost touching the Raikage in one panel, and then him disappearing in the next. Had it been instantaneous, then he wouldn't have dodged it. Amaterasu is thus not instantaneous.
    Being able to use one's techniques isn't inherent on being well or not. Kimimaro and Itachi were both near death and they could still fight better then everyone else. Sasuke was fast enough to react and counter Ee, the fastest ninja in the world, there's clearly was a drop in speed. And how was it a complete defeat when Sasuke walked away? As stated, Ee literally stood there prepared to with his max shunshin waiting for it to be shot, and even with all that he still could only dodge by a couple inches when it was nearly on top of him. Acting as if Ee needing his max shunshin to avoid it means it's not instantaneous, despite the only other speed comparable to that being teleportation, is silly. The fact remains it's among the fastest things around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma View Post
    And once again, it doesn't matter if Sasuke being impaled by six swords or not was not fatal. At that point, he was unable to continue the fight. He struggled badly to merely raise his head and bite Karin's arm. If I were to shoot you in your knees, the wounds by themselves wouldn't be fatal. You still wouldn't be able to get back up and continue the fight. My question also remains. Many of you claimed that Sasuke was holding his own until he was caught by surprise. Please provide me with anything substantial that shows Sasuke holding his own against Bee?
    And again, you can't claim that. You can't say that because Sasuke didn't need to force himself, due to Suigetsu jumping in without warning, that he couldn't have if required. He clearly wasn't that invalid, seeing as he aided in his own protection. And how is avoiding and blocking Kirabi's swordplay not holding his own, when Kirabi was noted as a skilled swordsman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma View Post
    Obviously, Bee hasn't used Version 2 since his fight against Kisame because he hasn't needed to. As I said, the full Ox-form provides far more firepower via the Tailed Beast Bomb, but Version 2 is far more suited to fight fast opponents like Sasuke. You are merely assuming that Bee thought of the plan after his tentacle was cut. But there's also the possibilithy that him getting "defeated" by Sasuke was part of his plan. Regardless, how can you claim that Bee got his ass kicked by Sasuke given that Sasuke stood no chance whatsoever and was both immobilized and then killed. But hey, Bee escaped the village and thus Sasuke must have won, right?
    The Edo Jinchuuriki, Obito, and Madara are all speedsters, so that point is moot. It's not an assumption, Kirabi specifically tells the Hachibi he thought of it on the fly. Kirabi couldn't have plan for Sasuke to slice his tentacle, that was a completely unpredictable event. Stood no change? If Sasuke stood no chance, then Kirabi wouldn't have only landed a hit when Sasuke was surprised and had his guard dropped. Sasuke wouldn't have been capable of dodging or anything. This isn't Edo Madara verses the Gokages we're talking about, where everything they tried was easily dealt with. Kirabi lost because he ran away, which was not what he was originally trying to do in that fight, while Sasuke won because he partially completely his goal of grabbing the Hachibi.

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