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View Poll Results: Is the Zentopia filler arc "canon" to you?

Voters
27. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    20 74.07%
  • No

    3 11.11%
  • Maybe/Partially

    4 14.81%
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Results 31 to 39 of 39

Thread: Zentopia Filler Arc - Canon or not?

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Zentopia Filler Arc - Canon or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rarhyx View Post
    why not just ask mashima on twitter?
    I mean if ~10 (or more) fans will ask it, maybe he will respond...
    Technically people did already ask him about his involvement. He responded with this tweet:

    https://twitter.com/hiro_mashima/sta...35144246755328

    Google translate mangles it, but it's still pretty clearly someone inquiring into Mashima's involvement in the anime original arc (the Japanese don't call it filler, especially official sources, they call it anime original content), and Mashima answering. Here is Mashima's google translate mangled response:

    "I want you to this. Or, out six demons. Or to convey, but the story is left to the field staff. Thanks to a great job."

    As mangled as it is, you should be able to tell that while the details were left up to the anime staff, the broad story of it comes from Mashima.

    Quote Originally Posted by hoeru View Post
    Still. Manga-only readers can't know what happened in the Zentopia filler. They can't know that Cobra lost his eye there, they can't know about anything else that Mashima did not explain on his own in his manga. The manga is officially published in much more countries than the anime.

    How can an anime-only story become canon if only one-half sentence from a side character and one character's scar point to it in the original story? They're only small hints without describing what actually happened. They're not even shown as if they were connected in the manga. One can only see that if one watched the TV show - which most simply CAN'T. It's not a matter of choosing to watch the show or not.
    As has been said multiple times, "manga only readers" lack of knowledge is irrelevant to something being canon. All your talk about other countries in particular is irrelevant. No author worries about people in other countries being ignorant of information or part of the story when they put additional information somewhere other than the weekly series itself.

    For that matter even "manga only" readers that just follow the series from week to week and don't by the volume releases will be ignorant of things that Mashima puts in the end of volume Q&A sections and extras. Which contains information like Oracion Seis being former slaves from the Tower of Paradise, character cards for background characters including Kinana's character card indicating she was Cobra's snake, etc. That does not make that information non-canon. So those "weekly manga only" readers are left in the dark as to who the Kinana that Wakaba's profile mentions is, and who this addition chick that suddenly started showing up with all the other tertiary characters is. Information from the anime is the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by hoeru View Post
    Right, A Zentopia incident - but not necessarily the one shown in the anime. There's insufficient information to determine IMHO.
    I still haven't seen an answer from you to my question. Why would Mashima change it? The basic story is something he gave them. He did basically all of the character design work for the arc, Michelle, Earthland versions of Edoras captains, new appearances for Oracions Seis, Mirajane's new form, etc. After all that creative work he put into the Key of the Starry Sky arc, complete with incorporating one of it's outcomes into the manga, why would he suddenly change it to something completely different for the manga?

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  3. #32
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Zentopia Filler Arc - Canon or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by hoeru View Post
    No, I disagree, no matter how many times you (all, not just kkck) say my arguments were irrelevant. He's the original author. Anime authors aren't involved with with original story. Mashima had to sign a contract that gave the anime authors some freedom in how they interpret the original story - which already resulted in extended plot parts. And since they aren't falsified by manga ...



    Right, A Zentopia incident - but not necessarily the one shown in the anime. There's insufficient information to determine IMHO.

    But what is the relevance of that? Why isn't mashima acknowledging the events enough to make them cannon?

    That scenario does not make sense at all. What the manga has mentioned or implied about the zentopia event is at large perfectly coherent with what the anime shows. Death of stellar spirit mages, kinana, cobra.... the scenario you describe is one where there are two distinctly different events that were named the same with different circumstances but the end results seen in the manga can be exactly the same.... Its does not make sense. Right now there are two possibilities, that the zentopia incident seen in the anime and the zentopia arc mentioned in the manga are the same or that they are different events (with perfectly matching end results). It is far more reasonable that both events are the same, the manga as it is now actually has to give indication that the events are not the same rather than the other way around for us to reasonably think they are indeed not the same. Is there any reasonable evidence (from the manga or otherwise) for us to think that the events are not one and the same?

  4. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: Zentopia Filler Arc - Canon or not?

    The Zentopia incident happened in the manga. Hiro Mashima basically says it did through Yukino in the manga. And the Zentopia incident was caused by Oracion Seis, which includes Cobra. Non-canon is material irrelevant to the source material that never happened in the source material's world. This is canon. It's Mashima's story....if he says it's canon, it is...and he did.
    Last edited by exacta; May 07, 2013 at 05:14 PM.

  5. #34
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: Zentopia Filler Arc - Canon or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krono View Post
    "I want you to this. Or, out six demons. Or to convey, but the story is left to the field staff. Thanks to a great job."

    [...]

    I still haven't seen an answer from you to my question. Why would Mashima change it? The basic story is something he gave them. He did basically all of the character design work for the arc, Michelle, Earthland versions of Edoras captains, new appearances for Oracions Seis, Mirajane's new form, etc. After all that creative work he put into the Key of the Starry Sky arc, complete with incorporating one of it's outcomes into the manga, why would he suddenly change it to something completely different for the manga?
    Well, of course he's not changing it. He's ignoring the parts from the anime staff, not being necessary for the tournament arc. He literally told in the tweet that the story told in the filler is not his but the one created by the anime staff.

    Quote Originally Posted by SerpentTailedAngel View Post
    After the last debate I got into I have a new found hatred for seeing posts get broken into pieces, so I'm just doing this all in one big block.
    I'm so sorry to tear your (all) posts apart. From my point of view it's legal to do so and refer to the statement directly instead of (a) letting readers search for what I'm actually referring to or (b) starting to manipulate quotes by reformatting exerpts.

    But hey, I'm apparently doing a lot of things you're hating, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by SerpentTailedAngel View Post
    I'm not redefining filler. It generally means anything used to fill space between more relevant material, and the practice of using it by adding stories in order to stretch out anime has caused many anime and manga fans to use the term to refer to anything that didn't come from the original work.
    You are saying that fillers are canon - while they aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by SerpentTailedAngel View Post
    It is not A Zentopia incident. It's the Zentopia incident that involved a decline in celestial wizards, which happens to be what was shown in the anime
    Read the tweet Krono posted. Mashima hasn't referred to the parts created by the anime staff. Only to those parts he created himself anyways. It is a possible Zentopia incident, not the one Mashima would have created. Other authors would have created a different Zentopia incident as well. The one seen in the anime is the one created for the TV show only. Only the frame given by Mashima is canon. Not how so-and-so fought against so-and-so.

    Quote Originally Posted by SerpentTailedAngel View Post
    If Mashima came out and told everyone "Natsu has a younger brother, but he will never appear in the story," you would consider it to be a fact that Natsu has a younger brother, right?
    Yes, just like he made Mirajane, Elfman, and Lisanna have the family name "Strauss" in the Tankobon interviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by SerpentTailedAngel View Post
    So if the story itself says "this incident happened, and we're mentioning it in a context that makes it obvious we mean the one from the anime," then why does that not fly with you?
    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    But what is the relevance of that? Why isn't mashima acknowledging the events enough to make them cannon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lozmaster View Post
    I seriously do not understand what makes you believe that it didn't happen?
    Mashima only referred to the parts he created himself but to none of the plot details that were brought up by the anime staff.

  6. #35
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SerpentTailedAngel's Avatar
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    Re: Zentopia Filler Arc - Canon or not?

    By all means, quote me one word at a time. As far as I know, that's not against the rules. I personally find it to be a pain to follow long conversations that consist of everyone breaking up quotes over and over, so I was explaining why I not breaking up your quote while responding. If you feel like I manipulated your quote by posting it as is, then I'll respond without quoting.

    Mashima referred to a Zentopia incident that had something to do with a decline in celestial wizards. He acknowledge within the story that such an event occurred. And directed people to the anime when asked about it. The anime showed it.

    And here's how Bablyon translated the tweet, by the way.
    "I hope in this way. 6, a victim of it out. I have a story, but leaves it up to the field staff. Thanks to the excellent work."
    In that translation, it looks a lot more like it's his story, which he left to be told by the anime. And he's asked the anime to add things he didn't have time for in the past, such as Erigor coming back in the Nirvana arc.

    And one of the responses to the tweet translated as:
    "Is that so! Six magic so came out after a long time, now I look forward to very much. I am looking forward to Comics! Has Mashima teacher support"
    (The other responses weren't that relevant, but you can check those out to if you don't believe me.) Point is that someone who wasn't reading his tweet through a mangled online translation read that as the arc having his blessings.


    Side note: I'm not going to keep arguing the filler terminology with you. Just go put in a definition search yourself and look at how general media uses it. It doesn't mean the exact same thing as it does when an anime fan says it.

  7. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: Zentopia Filler Arc - Canon or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by SerpentTailedAngel View Post
    By all means, quote me one word at a time. As far as I know, that's not against the rules. I personally find it to be a pain to follow long conversations that consist of everyone breaking up quotes over and over, so I was explaining why I not breaking up your quote while responding. If you feel like I manipulated your quote by posting it as is, then I'll respond without quoting.
    Reread what I wrote. "starting to manipulate quotes by reformatting exerpts" is not what you did, did you? It's a bad habit here on MH none the less.

    Quote Originally Posted by SerpentTailedAngel View Post
    Mashima referred to a Zentopia incident that had something to do with a decline in celestial wizards. He acknowledge within the story that such an event occurred. And directed people to the anime when asked about it. The anime showed it.
    The last sentence is the part where we disagree. IMHO, the anime showed an interpretation of Mashima's general keywords. That doesn't make the filler arc canon to me.

  8. #37
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SerpentTailedAngel's Avatar
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    Re: Zentopia Filler Arc - Canon or not?

    It seems there's no swaying you.
    But just out of curiousity, if Mashima were to throw out more references to events that occurred in the Starry Skies arc, like having Cobra and Kinana claim they've met since she turned back into a human, or having members of the Zentopia church cameo pop in, would that change your opinion, or would you still feel that it the whole thing needed to be shown for it to count?

  9. #38
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rarhyx's Avatar
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    Re: Zentopia Filler Arc - Canon or not?

    I think it's canon, especially when mashima had his hands in the filler arc plus what yukino said and even cobra has the design when the "filler arc" ended...

    I'm also curious about what serpenttailedangel asked...

    (Sidequestion: did you read/watch Dragonball? if so, is the episode of bardock canon to you or not? toriyama wrote it but it never accured in the actual manga)

  10. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: Zentopia Filler Arc - Canon or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by SerpentTailedAngel View Post
    It seems there's no swaying you.
    But just out of curiousity, if Mashima were to throw out more references to events that occurred in the Starry Skies arc, like having Cobra and Kinana claim they've met since she turned back into a human, or having members of the Zentopia church cameo pop in, would that change your opinion, or would you still feel that it the whole thing needed to be shown for it to count?
    Well, there is a way to convince me: Mashima either has to reveal vital parts of the filler plot written by the anime staff to have occurred in that Zentopia incident ... such as Gildarts' battle for example or as the very minimum to confirm that Fairy Tail was actually involved in that incident mentioned in the manga ...

    Original manga, and - so far I'm able to take a look at them - databooks and official interviews are the real deal.

    Though it's off-topic, I'll reply quickly:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rarhyx View Post
    (Sidequestion: did you read/watch Dragonball? if so, is the episode of bardock canon to you or not? toriyama wrote it but it never accured in the actual manga)
    Spoiler show

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