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Thread: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

  1. #61
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner coniurare's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by S-H-I-G-U-R-E View Post
    Are you crazy?! GMR is, by definition, the strongest martial artist under heaven. He has proven himself able to do battle with the Martial Arts Alliance alone, single-handedly killing and maiming many masters and elites, one after the other. After fighting four Munjus and numerous elites, suffering from Ki depletion, a broken arm, and being shot, Chun-Woo fought and killed two more Munjus, fought and subdued So-Chun Hyuk and his three protectors, dispatched the Alliance Chief, and did battle with Kang-Sung. Not to mention he had to use more energies than needed because he was protecting Shi-Ho all the time. Do you really think any of the top 10 murim masters would be able to do the same?! In my opinion, none of them would even get close to that.
    Yeah, I can't agree more. It was even said a few times that he's the strongest.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ketsurou's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    To the discussion of Goomoonryong: Yes, "Goomoonryong" is synonymous with "the strongest," because Chun Woo has never been defeated. But at the end of the day, the title simply means that he has mastered all nine of the sacred skills of Murim. In addition, for all that Chun Woo did in The Breaker, we have never seen him battle a Grand Master. Even the MMA Chief, who given his position is supposed to be the strongest in all of Murim, was not necessarily one of the top ten Grand Masters. Chun Woo is not invincible, even if his title implies that he is to most people.

    Quote Originally Posted by blaise View Post
    Maybe "useless' was bold of me but there is a difference for shioon between feeling pain and being incapacitated. If by 'working' you mean the attacks cause shioon pain then yes. If you mean paralysis then they aren't doing a very good job if shioon can shrug them off - the doctor's needles look like they were meant to keep shioon incapacitated.We don't know much about how the pill works to be that confident that they help counter pressure point attacks. Tbh, his large meridians sound more plausible. With respect to jigun' sattacks looks to me like it was pain as well as shioon's own fear that kept him floored, rather than a lack of functionaly that is paralysis.
    I think his special body is as much a factor as his will. I don't think any other person would function as well as shioon after the doc' s neeble attacks, if all they had to get by with was will. But if they had gigantic meridians, an enormous ki reserved in every cell of his body and a will as strong then it wouldn't surprise me that they bounce back from attacks like the doctor's that were obviously meant to stop one dead in their tracks.
    You are right that Shioon is the only one who could have gotten up from that, and that is what I myself was suggesting.

    But remember how Accupuncture works. The needle attack of the doctor hit the points of his nervous system and ki system (since the physical body and ki body are overlapped and tied together), and was intended to stop his ki flow and the signals to his nerves at the same time--or something to that effect. Even the doctor himself said "if that were something you could get up from..."

    Even so, Shioon got up. Why? Because your body being numb doesn't necessarily mean you can't move. Have you ever tried to move while your leg was asleep? It's quite difficult. Almost impossible. But with will power and control of your balance, even if both legs are asleep, you can stand and tremble, waiting for them to wake up. Shioon is in that state--his body is going numb, and his ki flow is slowing down, but he stood up anyway. Not just because of his larger meridians, his huge ki reserve, or his new body--it takes will power to stand while you can barely feel anything. And it's extremely impressive that Shioon not only stood, but ran.

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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ketsurou View Post
    To the discussion of Goomoonryong: Yes, "Goomoonryong" is synonymous with "the strongest," because Chun Woo has never been defeated. But at the end of the day, the title simply means that he has mastered all nine of the sacred skills of Murim. In addition, for all that Chun Woo did in The Breaker, we have never seen him battle a Grand Master. Even the MMA Chief, who given his position is supposed to be the strongest in all of Murim, was not necessarily one of the top ten Grand Masters. Chun Woo is not invincible, even if his title implies that he is to most people.
    You're wrong. Or, at least, everything in the manwha says you are. I believe the most significant lines that prove GMR is indeed THE strongest ever are to be found here, at the beginning of chapter 27:
    Spoiler show


    That should leave very little doubt (actually, none) regarding GMR being a god-like being even among the best of the best of the Murim. SUC didn't use Goomoonryong name without a reason: they chose it because he is the strongest and singlehandedly did what nobody else could even ever hope to achieve: bring down the Martial Arts Association (with a broken arm, on top of that).

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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    I'm not exactly saying that he's week, merely saying that he is not invincible.

    Remember one of the biggest lessons that Chun Woo have Shioon: even if the enemy is stronger, that doesn't mean you can't win. Everyone has weaknesses, and if you are calm and focused, you can find those weaknesses and you have a chance of winning. Shioon has demonstrated this fact throughout the entire New Waves series--a stronger opponent CAN be defeated.

    Chun Woo is most definitely strong, but he is not invincible. No one is.

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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    You said this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ketsurou View Post
    Chun Woo is actually, more likely somewhere in between the level of the butler and Kwon.
    which I believe is bullshit (no offense). It's obvious that nobody's invincible, so why even the need to state something like that?

    To me, GMR is the strongest in the murim, and not even Elder Kwon can hold a candle to him, despite being one of the 10 murim grandmasters.


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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    Well, there's no point arguing about it. Chun Woo vs Kwon will probably never happen, and there are no mutual battles yet to compare their strength. But, personally, I do not believe Kwon would be defeated so easily. Maybe I'm just too big a fan of the Sunwoo.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Jizzman's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    Well that escalated quickly. lol.
    As for the guys saying GMR isn't as strong as the 10 grandmasters, quite frankly I find that statement ridiculous and without any proof.
    The author took his sweet time to emphasize throughout the entire series that his existence was beyond anything the murim had ever seen and yet some readers still think he'll be weaker than the grandmasters? Get outta here.

    Even Kaiser called him the best of the best http://www.mangahere.com/manga/the_b...09/c063/6.html

    I'll say no more about that.

    Now I got a few comments to make regarding the current chapter

    1. I don't really get the conversation between sera and jinie/elder kwon. Maybe it's the translation but it's not clear to me what they're getting at. Anyone care to expansiate?

    2. We get to see shiwoon's natural fighting talent yet again. He saw Mr glasses technique and immediately figured a way to nullify it in the heat of battle. The technique required gripping the opponent, but without the fingers Mr glasses can't grip him properly, without a proper grip the technique is nullified.
    Overhaul rebirth doesn't account for that kind of quick analysis in battle and this isn't the first time we've seen him do something like this. It's as if he's an experienced fighter who'd been fighting all his life for him to have those kind of fighting instincts. That's why mr glasses was so baffled and made a comment regarding that. I would love to know shiwoon's backgorund even further, he's no ordinary kid.

    3. Let's predict that the part 2 of the series will end with the destruction of SUC. But once that's done, there will be no more further enemies for Shiwoon to defeat according to the current plot in the series. No plot has yet been set up for him to go after BFD, an organization which i assume should naturally be the next enemy he'll have to defeat.
    He has motivation to go after SUC after they hurt his mom and indirectly killed elder jung. I'm anxious to know what kind of motivation the author will create for shiwoon to go after BFD after he defeats SUC. The link between both organizations (SUC and BFD) is only known to us readers and not to shiwoon and his allies so it'll be interesting to see if/how the author links both of them for shiwoon to see.
    Last edited by Jizzman; May 11, 2013 at 04:04 PM.

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  11. #68
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ketsurou's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jizzman View Post
    1. I don't really get the conversation between sera and jinie/elder kwon. Maybe it's the translation but it's not clear to me what they're getting at. Anyone care to expansiate?
    They traced the phone that Shioon was talking on, but instead of getting a direct location, the phone was encrypted with government protection so that it can't be tracked that easily. They are asking Sera for help to break the government encryption code, allowing them to unlock the exact coordinants and fly to the island.

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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jizzman View Post


    3. Let's predict that the part 2 of the series will end with the destruction of SUC. But once that's done, there will be no more further enemies for Shiwoon to defeat according to the current plot in the series. No plot has yet been set up for him to go after BFD, an organization which i assume should naturally be the next enemy he'll have to defeat.
    He has motivation to go after SUC after they hurt his mom and indirectly killed elder jung. I'm anxious to know what kind of motivation the author will create for shiwoon to go after BFD after he defeats SUC. The link between both organizations (SUC and BFD) is only known to us readers and not to shiwoon and his allies so it'll be interesting to see if/how the author links both of them for shiwoon to see.
    9AD is part of BFD so take him back. BFD wanted to destroy martial-arts world and shiwoon is part of martial-arts world. and main Mr glasses kill 9AD's girlfriend by order of BFD and that why 9AD become evil.

    about The link between both organizations (SUC and BFD) is only known to us readers and not to shiwoon and his allies so it'll be interesting to see if/how the author links both of them for shiwoon to see. i think when shiwoon defeat SUC he and others will know link between both organizations (SUC & BFD)

    Ketsurou i also don't believe Kwon would be defeated so easily. its will be hard fight for 9AD

  13. #70
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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jizzman View Post

    2. We get to see shiwoon's natural fighting talent yet again. He saw Mr glasses technique and immediately figured a way to nullify it in the heat of battle. The technique required gripping the opponent, but without the fingers Mr glasses can't grip him properly, without a proper grip the technique is nullified.
    Overhaul rebirth doesn't account for that kind of quick analysis in battle and this isn't the first time we've seen him do something like this. It's as if he's an experienced fighter who'd been fighting all his life for him to have those kind of fighting instincts. That's why mr glasses was so baffled and made a comment regarding that. I would love to know shiwoon's backgorund even further, he's no ordinary kid.
    I think the overhaul rebirth does account for all his changes, body AND mind AND KI. If we assume its just his physical body that has been upgraded, then we can't explain how he's expressing martial arts, probably as fluently as someone as experienced as the lone wolf. Something clearly happened to his mind to help him translate experiences that should be interpreted over months (YEARS EVEN) to the space of a few hours; whether its a fresh batch of 100 billion (??) neurons, faster (??) synapses, more (??) neural links.

    The technical explanation is that his bones and organs restructured themselves. The brain is an organ, AND, for purposes of this story, I believe a Ki center/ dantian is also considered an organ. So basically, these evolved along with the rest of his organs.

    ---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ketsurou View Post

    You are right that Shioon is the only one who could have gotten up from that, and that is what I myself was suggesting.

    But remember how Accupuncture works. The needle attack of the doctor hit the points of his nervous system and ki system (since the physical body and ki body are overlapped and tied together), and was intended to stop his ki flow and the signals to his nerves at the same time--or something to that effect. Even the doctor himself said "if that were something you could get up from..."

    Even so, Shioon got up. Why? Because your body being numb doesn't necessarily mean you can't move. Have you ever tried to move while your leg was asleep? It's quite difficult. Almost impossible. But with will power and control of your balance, even if both legs are asleep, you can stand and tremble, waiting for them to wake up. Shioon is in that state--his body is going numb, and his ki flow is slowing down, but he stood up anyway. Not just because of his larger meridians, his huge ki reserve, or his new body--it takes will power to stand while you can barely feel anything. And it's extremely impressive that Shioon not only stood, but ran.
    Agreed. I fully acknowledge that willpower must have something to do with it. Here's why I'm certain that even his body alone could cut it. BHET is the most advanced ki circulation technique in all murim. At its purest form AKA B.O.T, practioners of this advanced circulation (GMR & Shioon) have been known to;

    1.) Fully shrug off a lethal attack to the "Jugular Notch".
    (A nerve bundle/pressure point in this story considered 100% fatal to strike. B.O.T GMR took an attack to this area from kangsung with zero effect.)
    (Additionally, B.O.T GMR took the same attack from hyuk so chun with zero effect)

    2.) Fully shrug off an attack to the "supreme yang acupoint"
    (Refer to ch 105 pg 11. Lone wolf attacked this pressure point on shioon. No effect.)

    There is somewhat of a history of B.H.E.T ki circulation practitioners (not sure about lone wolf) being immune to pressure point attacks. GMR at one point told shioon that if he practiced this ki circulation technique regularly his body would become so strong he wouldn't believe it.
    Last edited by blaise; May 11, 2013 at 11:46 PM.

  14. #71
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ketsurou's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by blaise View Post
    The brain is an organ, AND, for purposes of this story, I believe a Ki center/ dantian is also considered an organ. So basically, these evolved along with the rest of his organs.
    I'm not sure the authors would consider the dantien an organ. They seem to have gone to great pains to research traditional asian medicine, and use information that is as close to whats used in traditional martial arts as possible (thoroughly exagerated, of course, but researched none the less). The dantien isn't traditionally considered an organ on its own, so why would it be considered one in the story?

    Now, that isn't to say that the overhaul rebirth thing didn't effect his ki center. Obviously, his ki center has been completely healed. But it's not exactly an organ. It's more like a "space."


    Quote Originally Posted by blaise View Post
    Agreed. I fully acknowledge that willpower must have something to do with it. Here's why I'm certain that even his body alone could cut it. BHET is the most advanced ki circulation technique in all murim. At its purest form AKA B.O.T, practioners of this advanced circulation (GMR & Shioon) have been known to;

    1.) Fully shrug off a lethal attack to the "Jugular Notch".
    (A nerve bundle/pressure point in this story considered 100% fatal to strike. B.O.T GMR took an attack to this area from kangsung with zero effect.)
    (Additionally, B.O.T GMR took the same attack from hyuk so chun with zero effect)

    2.) Fully shrug off an attack to the "supreme yang acupoint"
    (Refer to ch 105 pg 11. Lone wolf attacked this pressure point on shioon. No effect.)

    There is somewhat of a history of B.H.E.T ki circulation practitioners (not sure about lone wolf) being immune to pressure point attacks. GMR at one point told shioon that if he practiced this ki circulation technique regularly his body would become so strong he wouldn't believe it.
    Those are good points. If that is the case, then it is a matter of the BHET widening the 8 vessels so much. It was mentioned how Shioon's vessels were so much larger than normal, and granny blamed Chun Woo for changing him like that--but in reality, Chun Woo only made him do the BHET.

    If the BHET widens the circulation vessels so much, then it would make since that the effect of accupuncture attacks is changed since accupuncture and accupressure works by manipulating the ki flow through the 12 meridians and 8 vessals. If they are larger, then the points might be slightly larger as well--attacking those kind of points would be like using a lid that is too small for a jar. The lid will just fall in.

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Wowzers's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    Another thing to take into account when it comes to accupuncture points blocking ki flow... Shioon has an advantage over this that may also be having an effect. He spent most of his life with a 3 yin blockage so he is at least somewhat used to functioning normally with impared ki flow as opposed to the average murim-in.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ketsurou's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Wowzers View Post
    Another thing to take into account when it comes to accupuncture points blocking ki flow... Shioon has an advantage over this that may also be having an effect. He spent most of his life with a 3 yin blockage so he is at least somewhat used to functioning normally with impared ki flow as opposed to the average murim-in.
    Not only that, but there are also the events of the past "month" (in his time) that have taken place since his ki center was broken. He not only lived, but fought with his life on the line (and won most of the time) with no ki circulation at all.

    It is certainly fair to say that he is used to the odds being against him.

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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ketsurou View Post
    I'm not sure the authors would consider the dantien an organ. They seem to have gone to great pains to research traditional asian medicine, and use information that is as close to whats used in traditional martial arts as possible (thoroughly exagerated, of course, but researched none the less). The dantien isn't traditionally considered an organ on its own, so why would it be considered one in the story?

    Now, that isn't to say that the overhaul rebirth thing didn't effect his ki center. Obviously, his ki center has been completely healed. But it's not exactly an organ. It's more like a "space."
    Asian literature certainly does lend to it, but this is how I understand the author's own interpretation.
    Sure its a space. But some organ-like functionality must take place for the Ki to be absorbed into the system. For something that supposedly isn't an organ, it sure behaves like one. :

    1.) It has a physical location (lower abdomen below the navel)
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/the_b...03/c020/3.html

    2.) It grows bigger, can shatter, can be destroyed. Now technically speaking stuff like that probably could happen to empty space. However, I rather think its the functionality that undergoes such changes rather than an empty space.

    Whether its a physical or spiritual entity I don't know but analogies like these give Ki centers organ like attributes.

    Come to think of it, I'm sure there are some translations that flat out call Ki centers organs. (I'll try to find these).

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ketsurou's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker : New Waves 116 Discussion/ 117 Predictions

    There is actually more than one Dantien, though. There are three primary ones--the Lower Dantien, which is the primary "ki center" in relation to martial arts and general health; the Middle Dantien that is located in the chest; and the Upper Dantien that is located in the head, in the location of what some mythologies call the "third eye."

    A Dantien is a place where all 12 meridians and all 8 vessals intersect at the same time. The Lower Dantien, in particular, is one where all of the energy of the body meets at some point during each natural circulation of ki. This is why it's called the "ki center" in most of these translations, and is considered so important in Qi Gong and Martial Arts. It's physical location is mainly because it is also at the location of the center of gravity, but it isn't really one specific point in the lower abdomen--the entire lower abdomen is the dantien. That's why I called it a "space."

    Now, within energy arts like Qi Gong, the practice of cultivation of the dantien (or Dantien Meditation) has the effect of creating a focused sphere of energy in the dantien--like an orb, or a Golden Pearl according to some writings, which serves as a charged up resivior of ki. It is this solidified Dantien that might be called something of an organ that can grow bigger, shatter, be destroyed, and numerous other things. But even if this is shattered, enough energy still flows to leave the body a basic sense of health and strength. This is also why Shioon could still live even without having the ability to feel and circulate his Ki (which is, by definition, "Life Force Energy) through his body fully.

    I understand where you are coming from, but I simply don't think the authors consider the ki center to be an organ. You can also think of this: in ki based medicine like TCM, each organ has its own energy, and has its own fuctions in the energy body. They are even catagorized according to the elemental attributes that dominate those functions. Yet, the dantien has no such classification--rather than focusing on one specific function or one specific energy, it is the meeting place of ALL of the ki of the body. Yin, Yang, Elemental, and everything else: all of the ki that circulates through the body meets at the dantien. As far as energy functions go, it's almost something more important than an individual organ.

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