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View Poll Results: The winner of group 15 is... ?

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  • Kisuke Urahara

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  • Äs Nödt

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  • Renji Abarai

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  • Moe Shishigawara

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Thread: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

  1. #16
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Zeta42's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Byakuya also knows how to use Danku. He even used it against one of Espada (Zomari), but he still couldn't do anything against Äs Nodt.

    The same logic might have implied to Yama. He seems to know Kidou better than Urahara as he showed us the highest Hado in the story, but he coulkdn't use it against Juha Bach.
    Byakuya just didn't bother to use Kido. Hell, nobody did. How shameful. Because of that, we don't really know how effective it can be against Quincies. Of course, they can absorb it with Sklaverei, but still...

  2. #17
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Well, I had the same thought!
    I really hoped someone will try to use Kidou, so we could understand its effectivness on Quincies, but until now we can't understand if it is effective or not, but I agree that it's quite probable that they might obsurb it with their powers, but we need to actually see how it works in the actual manga.
    Hope we are going to witness it in the next battle of the war.

    But until now I seriously doubt that Kidou would be a thing that will let Urahara win this battle.

    P.S. Even though I think the "Witch Hunt" would be started by Urahara fans)) And I would be the one to burn in the end in the fire))

  3. #18
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    This fight and some others is why I seriously don't like this tournament, because it comes to a populiarity contest.

    If we go by manga, then obviously Äs Nodt wins. Byakuya lost to him and stated that without Bankai he wouldn't be able to win against Äs Nodt.
    I do not believe Byakuya's statement here. Byakuya was perfectly able to damage Äs Nodt before he released his bankai. He released his bankai before he was even slightly pushed against the ropes.

    The plan of the captains was to try and beat the Quincy, before their bankai was stolen. - and once stolen, find a way to unseal it whilst fighting them.
    Byakuya thought that his bankai would only be sealed, thus he could unseal it somehow - he was gravely mistaken.

    It was a really crappy plan. Shinji was shocked at the stupidity of their plan - and Mayuri is even more disgusted at their stupidity!

    Byakuya only lost as he was unable to fight against his Bankai with his Shikai.
    Had he not released, I believe he could have (and would have) won.

    Yes, Äs Nodt's power is dangerous, however the real danger to Byakuya in this fight was his own bankai.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Byakuya also knows how to use Danku. He even used it against one of Espada (Zomari), but he still couldn't do anything against Äs Nodt.
    The same logic might have implied to Yama. He seems to know Kidou better than Urahara as he showed us the highest Hado in the story, but he coulkdn't use it against Juha Bach.
    Danku is not in the 90’s. It has been suggested there is a strong difference between a lvl 80 (or less) and a lvl 90. The power scale appears to be logarithmic.
    Also, Yama, in his rage, made the same mistake as Byakuya… His swordsmanship is stronger than Ichigo’s, as is his strength. I see no reason why he couldn’t have put up a stronger fight against Yuha Bach, had he not used his bankai.

    Now, I see no reason why Urahara couldn't also damage Äs Nodt. Also, Urahara can perform (or has shown to be able to perform) higher Hadou than Byakuya. Hadou is massively OP. I believe the main reason why most captains do not use it frequently, is due to the extreeme difficulty in performing level 90+ spells. Spells in the 90's can incapacitate a captain, even if performed inadequately. I can not see why Quincy wouldn't also be susceptible to such spells.

    Then we have Urahara's high tactical ability, zapkauto's flexibility (it can shield, attack, restrain...), his gadgets...

    Urahara stomps - fan favorite or not.
    Last edited by zimbardo; May 31, 2013 at 03:29 AM.
    Infinite RAGE!

  4. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Kazu-Sama's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    This fight and some others is why I seriously don't like this tournament, because it comes to a populiarity contest.

    If we go by manga, then obviously Äs Nodt wins. Byakuya lost to him and stated that without Bankai he wouldn't be able to win against Äs Nodt. At the same time Urahara never showed that he is stronger than Byakuya in Shikai.
    Up until the last war, Yama hadn't shown anything that could beat Shikai Byakuya. Would you say he'd have lost to As Nodt too?
    What's shown and what's implied are very different. Urahara fought Chrysalis Aizen - and did a lot better than most - he was a former captain, and he's a genius. His Shikai is versatile and can be used for attacking, defending or whatever he fancies. He has a portable Gigai that he can and will use to create an opening.

    It's not because he's a fan favourite, it's because he's hyped up to be a powerful character, has shown us incredible intellect, tactical skill and versatility, and is just generally impressive whatever he does.

    If you don't think he's strong, fair enough, but As Nodt has only beaten Byakuya - and only using his own Bankai - and Renji. Shikai Byakuya was keeping up with him, and I highly, highly doubt Shikai Byakuya is stronger than Urahara...

    Epic Brofist!

  5. #20
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    That goes without question, the highest genious out of the whole manga,even above aizen,can't possibly end here. Notwithstanding his bankai is still unknown,his abilities are just too great!

  6. #21
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Since As Nodt can't use Byakuya's Bankai, he probably won't do to well against Renji or Urahara since his Fear Spike seem to be close range only. If he sticks to Blut Vene it'll basically be him on the defensive this entire match with Renji and Urahara keeping their range. Without a Bankai, As Nodt is totally ineffective for this fight and I can see Urahara taking advantage of that. Urahara can probably also over power Renji with nothing but Kido so he's out as well. Urahara should win.

  7. #22
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    If Byakuya lost his cool against As Nodt, then I don't see Renji dodging him and if hit, keep his cool. If anyone is cautious, analytical and has a chance of analysing As nodt's abilites before being hit, it's Urahara. I also see his skills in combination with his intellect to make him one of the best fihgters (allround) in the entire bleachverse, probably around top 10 level in overal combat proficiency. My vote goes to him.

  8. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma View Post
    He's a sneaky and flexible character that would undoubtedly find some strategy that would work against As Nodt.
    Ugh, not the "they'll think of something" argument. If you're going to say that, then actually give a plausible way Urahara counters it. This nebulous hypothetical argument is meaningless.

    These fights start with no knowledge, and literally one cut is all it takes for the fear to kick in on a Captain level opponent. I see nothing indicating that Urahara has anything to stop this effect any more than Byakuya did. Once it takes effect, As Nodt wins.

    Granted, Urahara's Kido is impressive, but he's unlikely to start off with it. As Nodt's ability is just his standard form of attack, and Urahara's unlikely to see a real threat from a cut as minor as what Byakuya received.

    Quote Quote:
    Most importantly, however, is that at the end of the day, this is a popularity contest and Urahara is one of the most popular characters.
    It's not a popularity contest, nor should anyone treat it as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by eefrit View Post
    Since As Nodt can't use Byakuya's Bankai, he probably won't do to well against Renji or Urahara since his Fear Spike seem to be close range only.
    WHAT?!

    Okay....I'm out.

  9. #24
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    These fights start with no knowledge, and literally one cut is all it takes for the fear to kick in on a Captain level opponent. I see nothing indicating that Urahara has anything to stop this effect any more than Byakuya did. Once it takes effect, As Nodt wins.

    Granted, Urahara's Kido is impressive, but he's unlikely to start off with it. As Nodt's ability is just his standard form of attack, and Urahara's unlikely to see a real threat from a cut as minor as what Byakuya received.
    I half agree and half do not. Main issue is that Byakuya was not cut until after his bankai had been stolen. As scary as As Nodt's attacks are, the real danger to Byakuya in that fight was his own bankai.
    Had he not released his bankai, I feel that he would have been less likely to have been cut - as he could already damage As Nodt at range using his shikai - something Renji could not (thus I do not see him doing anything in this fight).

    Can Urahara damage As Nodt from range - before he gets cut? I'd say yes.
    Is he likely to use a restraining technique on As Nodt? - I would also say yes. This is due to him using both restraining Bakudo and also restraining Zanpakuto techniques.
    It is hard to say how much As Nodt's power played in Byakuya's defeat - to me, at least, it appeared to be a rather small part of him losing (if at all). Therefore, as long as Urahara doesn't go bankai (something that, unlike Byakuya, he is prone not to do - even against Aizen he did not), then I see no reason for him to lose this round.
    Infinite RAGE!

  10. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    WHAT?!
    Okay....I'm out.
    No need to leave. I just don't think As Nodt can stand against Renji's Bankai. Since he can't steal it with his medallion he would have to rely on his spikes, which I believe have a specified range as he didn't shoot it during his bout with Byakuya or anytime else. Hihio Zabimaru would give Renji the range he needs to keep away from As Nodt and most likely the power to pierce Blut.

  11. #26
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Quote Originally Posted by eefrit View Post
    No need to leave. I just don't think As Nodt can stand against Renji's Bankai. Since he can't steal it with his medallion he would have to rely on his spikes, which I believe have a specified range as he didn't shoot it during his bout with Byakuya or anytime else. Hihio Zabimaru would give Renji the range he needs to keep away from As Nodt and most likely the power to pierce Blut.
    He can not seal it with his medallion?!?
    I thought that he just couldn't use the bankais he had already stolen at that point.
    Am I incorrect? The Quincy can not seal bankais in this tournament?!?

    Ah, seems that they do not have their bankais. Then I put As Nodt at an even bigger disadvantage in this fight. Not that I think Renji can win, but his bankai being involved is going to make things difficult for anyone to get close together (as he can launch ranged attacks at them - and the best way to avoid Renji's bankai is to keep moving.)
    Last edited by zimbardo; June 03, 2013 at 04:39 AM.
    Infinite RAGE!

  12. #27
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Urahara's "kido" were inventions he used against Aizen, well at least the final seal and the reiatsu cuffs were inventions. Those are not kido spells he can just apply to anyone. The '90th level' kido was used by chanting the incantation (which takes time) plus Aizen didn't even care if he was hit by it. Quite different to a Quincy who doesn't have reiatsu flow from their wrists and won't just stand around asking Urahara's best shot. Byakuya is capable of 6 rod light prison, and danku, which could trap As Nodt and block the spikes, but he didn't use it... stupidly omitted from their battle imo. Don't have any evidence that kido would work against these Quincy anyway.

  13. #28
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Don't have any evidence that kido would work against these Quincy anyway.
    What a joke of an argument. Just because we haven't seen it, you're denying the extremely likely possibility that Kido works against Quincies? Why wouldn't it work? Suggest one valid reason other than the "we haven't seen it" crap. That's like me saying Shishigawara can beat As Nodt because we haven't seen a Quincy defeat a fullbringer.

  14. #29
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Crystal Black's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Voted Renji, but Urahara should and would win. Versatility, excellent kido skills, the ability to analyze opponents attacks mid battle (see Yammy fight) and also one of the greatest minds in all of Bleach. Bankai Renji may be troublesome and As Nodt's thorns(arrows) as well. I can't really comment on the Fullbringer, he lost to Ikkaku whom I place at or around Renji level, so yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    I do not believe Byakuya's statement here. Byakuya was perfectly able to damage Äs Nodt before he released his bankai. He released his bankai before he was even slightly pushed against the ropes.
    Actually that statement there does hold some weight to it, because Kyouraku stated the same thing if I recall correctly. I'm not entirely sure I got to check.
    Smiling Devil


  15. #30
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament: Group 15

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal Black View Post
    Actually that statement there does hold some weight to it, because Kyouraku stated the same thing if I recall correctly. I'm not entirely sure I got to check.
    Well, Kyouraku also said this (knowing full well he could not use his bankai, as it would be stolen). So, considering the damage Byakuya did before he released his bankai, and the lack of damage he did following, I am quite satisfied with my way of interpreting his statement. But I guess that we will never agree on this. Unless something new comes up in this topic, I might as well stop repeating myself, thanks though for the polite discussion everyone!
    Infinite RAGE!

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