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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Is it just me, or Isshin is the only one who can use his zanpakuto's powers before even going shikai? How is that possible?
Maybe he's always in shikai or it doesn't show when he goes shikai. Like Tosen
We've seen Isshin's shikai. It burns.
Shinigami who know Bankai can go Shikai without the release command:
Last edited by DraMas26; May 10, 2013 at 03:49 AM.
No, it was actually shown that there is a difference between how he fought against Aizen and White at the begining (when he was usinh his sealed Zanpaktou) and when he released his Zan, saying Burn Engetsu. Then his Zan's appearence changed. It's obvious that Isshin can use Getsuga without going in Shikai.
The same seems to apply to Ichigo. He used something like Getsuga in his first fight against Menos, but he didn't know the name of the move, thus it was weak. He also used it against Urahara during training He even told Byakuya, that when he got to know the name of the move it became considerably stronger...
Nothing necessarily happens when Isshin releases Engetsu. He can get his sword's blade to be surrounded by flames but it doesn't seem to be necessary. These flames get thrown off when he uses GT. Isshin uses a flame based GT while Ichigo uses a reishi based one (probably because he's part Quincy). Against White and Aizen, Isshin simply released Engetsu without the release command.
I don't see why it needs to be some special ability.
When he got his Shinigami powers first after taking Rukia's Reiatsu... He didn't get Shikai. He get a bigger version of Isshin's sealed sword...
So, his first unconcious Getsuga was made with this sealed sword against Menos Grande. Even though it was weak, but still.
Well, Isshin's Shikai is sword in flames, so it is different from when he fought Aizen and used Getsuga with sealed sword... And well, Isshin's Getsuga while sealed is the same as Ichigo's normal Getsuga, but it's only bigger.
But even if it wasn't that then it was just a cut created by the air currents:
Ichigo did the same thing against Ginjo when he first got his powers back:
Isshin's Zanpukto may not necessarily need to release flames upon release. It might be same as Yama's. He can cover his blade in flames in Shikai but he may not necessarily need to:
When Isshin fought Aizen and used GT, Engetsu was covered in flames right before so he released it:
When Isshin uses it in the battle against White, Engetsu starts to get covered in flames as well right before GT:
So yeah GT is just his Shikai ability. I don't see how it's some special sealed Zanpukto attack.
When he used it against Aizen it wasn't covered in flames. It was covered with Getsuga. Ichi has the same thing, when he does it in Bankai in order to make it stronger. His sword, when he uses it against Aizen is just the same sealed Zanpaktou. Just look at it.
And well look at Ichigo's giant sword, when he only got his Shinigami powers and look at his Shikai now... or even before Dangai... the obviously don't resemble each other. It was what his sealed sword should look like as it was practically the same as Isshin's sealed sword with the exe4ption of its size.
And what Ichigo did against that MNenos didn't look like air current, but looked the same as Getsuga. Especially in the anime.
The way I see it:
Isshin has a fire based Getsuga Tenshou.
Ichigo has a spirit particle based Getsuga Tenshou (probably due to being part Quincy).
When he used it against Aizen it looked exactly like flames. The only problem is that it's a black and white manga so you have no way of being sure which colour it is. However I'm inclined ot believe Isshin's GT was fire-based and the anime simply coloured it wrong because they weren't aware of the nature of Isshin's power at that time.
Ichigo doesn't have a flame based Zanpukto. That's the difference between him and Isshin. Ichigo uses spirit particles while Isshin uses flames.
Anime is non cannon though.
Of course it looks like Ichigo used a GT (even Ginjo thought he did) however at that time it can be argued what he really did was an air cut since he hadn't learnt GT then.
BTW a Zanpukto doesn't have to change in physical appearance when it's released e.g. Kyouka Suigetsu.
Yeah, I think we're all confused because Isshin's zanpakutou doesn't change shape when he goes shikai.
It's like Aizen's, in a sense. Or Yamamoto's. Or Hitsugaya's. Or Tousen's.
*Hitsugaya's does get a little chain scythe thingy....but still.
I think you are confusing kenatsu with getsuga tensho. What he did against the menos was kenatsu at most. Without contact with zangetsu or even his own shinigami powers I don't think getsuga would be an option for ichigo. On the other hand kenatsu is painfully generic. Kenatsu and getsuga are in principle the same thing, the difference is the concentration of power between a specialized technique like getsuga and a generic ability like kenatsu. Ichigo has the inherent ability to concentrate a lot of power on the edge of his blade while kenatsu just releases reiatsu from his sword. We saw precisely that against ginjo.
---------- Post added at 09:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 AM ----------
Thinking about it, isn't engetsu disturbingly similar to ryujin jakka? Lets compare them:
RJ shikai releases a lot of flames. Engetsu shikai releases a lot of flames. It does seem like the volume of flames released by RJ is greater however perhaps what we should also look at is that engetsu has the inherent ability to concentrate flames and release them as getsuga tensho.
Ishin's getsuga tensho can even be extremely similar to yamamoto's bankai. GT is ultimately roughly similar to north. Its a ranged attack of concentrated flames. East can be similar to applications we have seen of GT. GT concentrates flames on the edge of the blade and releases that reiatsu as a powerful cutting technique. We have seen ichigo actually not fire his getsuga to increase his melee attack power. Ishin should be perfectly capable of doing that. Wouldn't it be about the same as east? I wonder if it is plausible yamamoto is somewhat distantly related to the shibas....
Any relationship between Yamamoto and Isshin/Ichigo seems unlikely. He should've shown some reaction at seeing Ichigo pull out his Getsuga Tenshou if that were the case.
I don't think yamamoto has seen a GT so far. I guess there was the time ichigo ambushed aizen at FKT but yamamoto's reaction was never shown.