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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Do share your knowledge. Because honestly, I can't find that in the manga. Not unless, you're just making that up.
And Itachi didn't want to eliminate his clan until Danzo threatened Sasuke, who various characters made clear Itachi would do anything for. If it was the only thong to do, then Itachi wouldn't have been looking to get more time for Sarutobi or had to be blackmailed into it. Now considering that Itachi would have spilled Konoha's secrets to all the other villages had something happen to Sasuke, his decisions show nothing more then his massive love for his little brother.
We were outright told that they were trying to take back political power. They can't take something back, if they never had it in the first place, so clearly they did have more power then just the police force. And how can you talk about Konoha's history when we know very little of anyone outsides the key characters?
So overall, the uchiha doesn't have that kind of power. They're just the konoha's police force. They don't have that kind of power simply because the senju/hashirama just let them live.
Oh look at little old uchiha... Bohoho... We where moved to the edge of the village... Oh what we lost... so HORIBLE....Quote:
Better start a world war and decimate the village, do it NOW... And this IS what would have happened... A good number of caracters claimed it... It was as sure as the sun rising the next morning... Sure a black hole could swip trough the solar system and anihilate the Sun... But... Well yeah...
Oh and perhaps next time they should help defened the village vs a Kyuubi attack. They where sure as hell lucky to be out on a "mission"(or whatever it was) when this happened.
He "surrendered" to his SON who ALREADY won the fight. He was behind them with a sword.Quote:
Not the same. They where not engaged in a civil war... They had ninja to even take missions...Quote:
Because he got what Danzo was telling him.. HE KENW that was the only way out. The "threat" was about what would happen if this events would be allowed to play out.Quote:
He had as much wisdom as a hokage... HE KNEW that was the only way out at this point.. HE KNEW his people are NEVER going to stand down or accept a peace treaty...
When Danzo offered to "protect" Sasuke so Itachi at least get's something he accepted it... It was because Danzo GAVE him something and not because of a threath.
And there's nothing suggesting that the rest of the clan didn't help against the Kyuubi. Only two Uchiha's were said to have been missing that night, and not a single person has said anything differently. Considering the Uchiha clan was still seen loved afterward, they obviously had to have been helping.
Uchiha clan was gonna lose and the only options for Itachi to stand with them and be destroyed too or stand with Konoha and save Sasuke. No claims of Konoha's destruction or a world war. And clearly Itachi didn't think that the Uchiha's wouldn't have gone for the negotiations seeing as he was gonna attempt to buy Sarutobi more time.
How would theuchiha clan take back their political power whereas the truth is they don't have that kind of power?
Political power? They don't have that kind of power. They're powerless and talentless to become a hokage/elders.
What says they didn't have that kind of power and more importantly, why would Koharu state it if it wasn't true? Not a single statement in the series claims that the Uchiha clan didn't have any political power. And considering the entire situation with the higher ups is based on who knew who, that means nothing.
The fact that they led the Konoha Police Force is clear evidence of them having political power..
And yes, Itachi acted the way he did in order to keep Sasuke alive. That was the whole point of coming back to the village following Hiruzen's death, as a warning for Danzo.
Itachi was given an ultimatum:
1) Either all of the Uchiha, including Sasuke, die in combat.
2) Or Itachi assassinates them himself, but Sasuke can be kept alive.
The only political power they got is for being the konoha's police force. Nothing more nothing less.
As far as the manga is concern, the konoha's political system composed of hokage, elders, head of the jounin and anbu. So where the hell is the uchiha align in that system?
Head of the jounin? Nah.
Head of the anbu? Nah.
So what they got is just for being the police force.
In any case, I never said that they had much political power, but they still did have some. If you lead a Police Force, then you by definition have political power in the form of judicial power. Officially, they were the ones who were in charge of arresting and sentencing criminals.
The power structure in Konoha is very centralized. The Hokage is both the Commander-in-chief and the de facto leader. The Anbu is the Secret Police and answers directly to the Hokage. The Jounins etc. make up the Military and thus also answers to the Hokage. The Konoha Military Police Force, on the other hand, is merly the village's official police force. They are at the bottom of the political structure.
Last edited by Azuma; May 18, 2013 at 04:51 AM.
And how are you gonna say what the Konoha political system intels when it's never been shown in depth and only been revealed in pieces here and there? Need I point out that long ago, we all thought that the Hokage had complete power, only to discover that the council holds just as much if not more power? Or that the Hokage must be voted in by the jounins of the village even after being chosen? Danzo doesn't have any of those roles, yet he clearly been shown with plenty of political power. And the "head" of Anbu would be the Hokage, who's the one who gives them orders.
And no. Shikaku is the head of the jounin while some unknown anbu is the head of the anbu. Remember when they elected a hokage after nagato destroyed the konoha? Shikaku was there sitted at the last sit of that council.
Based from that scene, the konoha's political system/council is composed of hokage, 3elders, head of anbu and the head of the jounin.
Now, if they planned their coup to take back their political power, then does it mean that the konoha was stripping out their role as a police force?
Oh right, I forgot about that. The Hokage is definitely the head of the Anbu though, it's been stated several times.
No. The hokage holds much more power. And the reason why danzo holds plenty of political power is simply because hiruzen just let him do as he pleases.
No, I'm talking about the konoha's council. The manga already shown us that shikaku was known as the head of the jounin. That's why he was part of the konoha's council. He was even voted kakashi as the new hokage,
Now, does it mean that the nara clan hold a political power simply because their clan leader is part of the konoha's political power? No. So what makes you think that theuchiha clan has a political power? The konoha is all about the democracy. They voted for their leader/s. So it's hard to imagine that the uchiha was planning their coup to take back their political power. It's clearly that they planned their coup to take the konoha's power. Accept it already, the uchiha is a greedy clan. They planned to take on something that doesn't belong to them.