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Again the problem is that if you theologically go about something and recognize why the church was created, and that the people in the Church aren't what makes the Church what it is, It is God who makes the Church what it is, then that changes your view on it. Again I do not deny what the Church did in the past was bad, BUT that doesn't change the fact that God established the Church through Jesus Christ and that it has a place in Humanity in order to allow people to get in touch with God at a personal (and I'd argue physical level through the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist). That is the MAIN purpose of the Church, and whether or not it strayed down a wrong path, doesn't take away that purpose from it. All big things including humanity itself, hits road bumps, and goes wrong ways at times. Anywhere where humans are involved leaves room for some error because humans are limited and can't be perfect. So even in regards to the Church error is possible but HUMANITY is not what makes the Church what it is and as a result even in the wake of mistakes the purpose of the Church is not lost because thats not humanities decision to make.
In our times though and through ecumenical discussion, the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics for the most part have the exact same Theology and believe the exact same things. The only issue today would be the primacy of the pope that is keeping the two apart.
Last edited by Arrogance; December 10, 2010 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Love? Hormons affecting the human body and brain. The system makes sense in terms of evolution, first to achieve to give birth to a child with a biologically "good" partner and afterwards to make sure that father and mother (possibly) stay together for some time so the birth was not in vain as the child still has to grow up before it can keep itself alive.
Beauty? Depends, but I'm certain evolution theory also offers many possiblities to explain it.
Such as: Evolution preferred men who search for young, healthy women because they have the best odds to give birth to and raise a healthy child. Also, not everywhere "beauty" (at least the beauty of humans) is rated equally; Studies show that in poorer countries where people starve, heavier people seem more attractive to the other gender - obviously makes sense.
Women have different systems again, their taste is less simple as they have to compromise... a perfectly strong and healthy partner is great for reproduction as good genes might mix in, but there might be a lot of competition for him on the other hand so me might not help raising the resulting children - bad for making sure the own genes survive.
Less "good" partners might reduce the chances of the own genes to sustain in the future because the children might be weaker; But the competition for might be lower, so he might stay to raise children as he won't have much of a chance to get any different partners anyways.
I don't have any special expertise or in-depth knowledge in this field, but it offers a lot of plausible explanations to me so I stick to it. (Also recalling a study here which says that women tend to search strong "macho" men for one night stands, but preferr less attractive ones for longer partnerships)
Beauty of arts etc. of course depends, I certainly can't explain it with my knowledge - but it seems likely that there are other patterns behind it which can be explained scientifically.
(Another example: Bird songs appear soothing to many persons and scientists guess that it might be, because hearing singing birds ment "no dangerous foe nearby" in past times. )
About the religious discussion I posted a lot in the according thread:
Imo religion just came into existence to explain the existence of things, then was used as a source of comfort ("live sucks, but afterlife will be better") and so different religions evolved: The only reason why people believe in it is 1) religious "indoctrination", or, more neutral: education; 2) search for comfort; 3) traditions; 4) not knowing the alternatives (atheists and other non-believing groups scored absolutely best in world wide/general religious knowledge in a recent study, got that link somewhere in the General World Topics).
Last edited by Roflkopt3r; December 10, 2010 at 12:18 PM.
there alot of fairy tale like exaggerated parts
feeding five thousand..im dead now im alive curing lepers etc.
of course i only mentioning the gospels of jesus not the other parts.
if no bible and someone wrote harry potter at time when bible was done (im dead now im alive thanks to love scarifice etc etc) then he would be your "messiah". The fact the bible was written so far long in timeline after middle ages ..if it written before or after death of jesus it might be more beliveable (without the usual extras of miracles).
then is the fact jesus is jewish not christian which was turned
Also its not just a fairy tail in that Christians were in practice before the Bible was written. Immediately following Christ's death, the Apostles went out and built the Church. First was Oral Tradition but then it was recognized that there needs to be written work to correspond to the Oral Tradition. To back this up, one can look tot he earliest writings of the New Testament, the letters of Paul. In these letters he is writing to Christian communities already establish in order to help and guide them. These communities were not established because of the Bible, but they were already in practice after the Apostles went out and orally presented what they had witnessed in Christ. The writings came after because it was more important to get the ball rolling instead of sitting down and writing everything.
As for all the innocent people dying and God(in case he exists) not doing anything about it.In my opinion,God only gave humanity life.Then he just let it evolve and make its own mistakes.If a teacher would always show you the results and wouldn't let you make any mistakes,you wouldn't learn anything,would you?God is teaching humanity this way.He once even helped humanity out by using Jesus to purify humanity and to show something,but humanity didn't take this seriously and now you see what we got.God is letting us feel our own mistakes.
I personally don't really believe in God,but i'm not really against it either.
Someone - perhaps Jesus, seemingly he did exist although he certainly did not have supernatural powers imo - founded a new cult (not that this would've been rare over the course of history), it was successful for some reason (many previous religions or cults have been successful, this isn't special either).
It spreads orally, and at some point someone or a community packs all of this stuff into a book. Happens.
Personally I guess that the miracle stories of Jesus probably mostly had their first appearance in the Bible, perhaps to suit the old testamony. After all Jesus idea was to reform Judaism, so the referrence to and includance of the old testamony made sense.
It would've rather surprised me if the bible had been the beginning, I don't think that it happened a lot that a book itself was the very beginning of such a cult.
Last edited by Roflkopt3r; December 10, 2010 at 12:27 PM.
we graphic designers claim most stupid things on adverts to draw more people in . the bible is similar with its added stuff of miracles. it was to draw more people in that it
yes there was religion before but to boost followers they added stuff to lure people in ...which to me is not something that is powerfull as religion should do..it should be more honest .
im not bashing you been religious to me it not logical (any relgion doesnt make sense to me)
also the fact they altered his birth to xmas for making money and creating the whole idea is even more WTF .
Also everything you stated are still theories and attempts by scientists to try and explain everything and yet they have still done that. In your claim that religion is man made, then I could also flip the argument that science is a man made method in order to try and prove everything so since your saying religion is man made and unreliable then I would say that Science is man made and also not fully reliable.
(But I'm not crazy so I don't hold that to be the case). My point is that the universe isn't static and everything can't be proven through science because science is conducted by humans and we are too limited to know everything. THE MAJORITY of science and what science holds to be true is still an act of faith because the majority of things are Theories which we see some evidence for and as a result we trust in it. Evolution is a theory that has evidence to suggest its the case yet no one can actually say they KNOW evolution. You still need to have faith in evolution because you can't possibly go back and say this is exactly how it happened. Heck even gravity is something we have faith in. All we witness in our experience is the effects of Gravity, but one cannot KNOW gravity. You can't have a face to face encounter with the force of Gravity in itself and truly know it.
But like I said I'm not crazy and I see it reasonable to accept the thing science has dones. BUT that doesn't mean science necessarily PROVES everything, because if you think you as a human can PROVE anything? Then I'd say your crazy. Life itself is a leap of faith because we are surrounded by so much uncertainty.
Closed the thread because I'm getting bombarded here and I need to answer everyone one step at a time. I can't follow what everyone's saying nor can I possibly answer all your posts at once. I'm basically having 5 different conversations at once .
Also Christmas wasn't made for money...its that we don't have an exact date for the Birth of Jesus so a date was set up around a previous roman holiday just to give it a day that was set aside to celebrate such an important event. It wasn't a matter of fabricating a holiday but it was that the Birth if Christ is so important that it needed a day to be celebrated on.
Threads staying closed because this isn't a discussion I can have with people at such a wide range. Its something I would need to do personally with a person one on one because I find that its a discussion that deserves quality and the quality of response I can offer just cannot be given when I'm addressing 5 different people that are saying 5 different things.
Last edited by Arrogance; December 10, 2010 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Yay, your thread is unlocked.
When is your last exam?
On Friday I have a paper and an exam due that day and then I'm free .
Its gonna be a crazy week because I'm basically doing one paper every night and occasionally will need to study in between. Its not that the papers themselves are hard, its just the work load and a matter of me actually doing all the work in general. I'll survive though .
Yeah, papers aren't so bad. The worst part is getting started. How many pages do you have to write?
Last edited by Arrogance; December 11, 2010 at 12:25 PM.