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Thread: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

  1. #1
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Thought about starting a fun thread, about anything within the story/world/characters/rules just stuff we know or dont know about the Naruto world! Something we just are wondering about what happened to that or why didn't that happen!

    an example:
    In the beginning of the story we got to learn about the ranking system!
    Student -> Genin -> Chuunin -> Jounin - > Anbu -> Hokage
    Here I think about why Neji never got to be the Jounin hero he deserved to be! In the beginning it was said that when you become Genin, u will go on teams with 3 and 3 with a jounin as their leader. When you become a chuunin, you will lead a platoon group! (Only Shikamaru) of all the other rookies has ever done this! And Jounin You will get your own three genins -> or you will leader of a designed team! Still team Gai! Always had Gai there as their leader, while the other three actually always looked like genin. For me it's a shame that after the time skip the ranks, just did not matter anymore! How awesome would it not have been seeing Naruto in chuunin or maybe even jounin exams. And how cool would it actually have been to see! Some of them getting a chance in anbu! but these elite ninjas "anbu" really does not seem elite at all to me.

    nr 2.
    Itachi is a legend and I love him! and together with Obito! They killed evey single one of the Uchihas in Konoha! How could not one single of them not have made a scratch on Itachi? surely Tobi just became invisible! But Itachi vs lets say 1000 uchihas! probably 300 of them with sharingans, and they all just died like that! and even more The Third did not approve of this, surely someone must have noticed that Chackra was beeing used in Konoha! Kakashi, Gai, Asuma? The Third, who had an all seeing eye could not see this? I dont know, this just seems like an unjust way for the uchiha clan to perish from the world! Still I think Itachi is awesome! But think about it Naruto and Sasuke vs Every single uchiha there is? And no one notices it, and not one scratch on Naruto or Sasuke, if they had done this?

    What do you guys think?
    Weakness in the story? Thinks you would have changed? Or just some more explanations on some parts?
    All Inpurts will be fun to read!

  2. #2
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member syx's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Itachi probably didn't fight the whole Clan head on. He most likely caught many members off-guard. Obito stated that Itachi murdered the Clan quickly and efficiently, which further proves the idea of sneak attacks. And smart as Itachi is, he probably took out the strongest members [except for his father Fugaku] with those sneak attacks.

    You should also not forget that Itachi was able to defeat three Uchiha Police Officers (everyone with a Sharingan) in mere seconds without receiving a single scratch and without relying to any Jutsu, just plain speed, Taijutsu and his own Sharingan. That's how crazy Itachi was. If we assume that Itachi already could use Clones at that time, you will have someone who could possibly take on more than 10 Uchihas simultaneously. Add Obito, who can spam Kamui like shit and there is no way out. So, even if they had to fight stronger members head on, it would be meaningless in front of Itachi and Obito.

    Edit: Not to mention that Kabuto is the only ninja who could land a legit hit on Itachi in the entire manga.
    Last edited by syx; May 13, 2013 at 08:27 PM.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by deni2k View Post
    Itachi is a legend and I love him! and together with Obito! They killed evey single one of the Uchihas in Konoha! How could not one single of them not have made a scratch on Itachi? surely Tobi just became invisible! But Itachi vs lets say 1000 uchihas! probably 300 of them with sharingans
    1000 Uchihas...? I'd actually estimate Konoha as a whole has that many citizens...

    From what we've seen I think its much more realistic to presume a number like ~100 regarding the Uchihas, with maybe one or two hands full of Jounins with Sharingan and the rest of them being Chunin/Genin. Itachi also picked them off one by one in a stealthy assasination mission... not Neo vs. Agent Smith style during Matrix Reloaded.

    And yeah, I'm aware Konoha having around 1000 citizens doesn't make much sense if the whole Shinobi Alliance is suddenly consisting of 80,000 people... but thats once again one of Kishimoto's slipups, unless all the small no-name villages joined the fray as well (and there would still need to be a ridiculous shitload of those villages).

    Also:

    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-348-3/n...apter-343.html
    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-348-4/n...apter-343.html
    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-348-5/n...apter-343.html
    Last edited by LnDRash; May 14, 2013 at 02:40 PM.
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    I'll comment on the two "plotholes" in order.

    Just because someone's been appointed a Jounin doesn't immediately mean that he would lead his own team. Neji was still new as a Jounin and it's not at all a bad idea to place them with an experienced Jounin for them to learn. Take Kakashi, for example. Even after he became a Jounin, he was still part of Team Minato. I don't think it's much of a "Team Gai" anymore either. I think it's more a case of convenience. You've got four powerful ninjas, used to working together. You need a four-man cell to send out. It is only logical that you would send out one with an established sense of teamwork. Neji has probably gone on several missions by himself or with people other than Gai, Rock Lee or Tenten, but it's not been shown.

    As for the Uchiha massacre plothole, you are really overestimating the number of Uchiha. The Uchiha were merely a clan.. living in a village. Realistically speaking, there would at most be 100 of them (and that's still a high number). Take away children and other non-fighters, and you'd probably halve that number. Itachi was by far more skilled than the rest so he wouldn't need to rely on much more than his Sharingan, his superior speed and a weapon. He assassinated them. He didn't fight them. As for the Third Hokage, he was well aware of the mission beforehand. Why would he stop it?
    Last edited by Azuma; May 14, 2013 at 02:45 PM.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner fenrir7's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    if you're thinking plotholes, just focus on the obito character and you'll find plenty.

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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    why is it when naruto attacked white zetsu's in the kyuubi chaakra mode

    the wood style reverted back to trees

    yet wheb he finally landed a blow in obito the white goop on his body didnt react the same?

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by deni2k View Post
    Itachi is a legend and I love him! and together with Obito! They killed evey single one of the Uchihas in Konoha! How could not one single of them not have made a scratch on Itachi? surely Tobi just became invisible! But Itachi vs lets say 1000 uchihas! probably 300 of them with sharingans, and they all just died like that! and even more The Third did not approve of this, surely someone must have noticed that Chackra was beeing used in Konoha! Kakashi, Gai, Asuma? The Third, who had an all seeing eye could not see this? I dont know, this just seems like an unjust way for the uchiha clan to perish from the world! Still I think Itachi is awesome! But think about it Naruto and Sasuke vs Every single uchiha there is? And no one notices it, and not one scratch on Naruto or Sasuke, if they had done this?
    First, it really isn't that hard to believe Itachi could solo the clan, and we know he had help from Obito who literally has powers that no one had ever seen before.

    Sasuke, Sasori, and Minato have all shown us that a singular Shinobi, if powerful enough, can single handily fight a large group of enemy ninja and win.

    And secondly Itachi attacked at night in stealth fashion. He likely used genjutsu to subdue most of his clansmen as none of them would be able to do anything about. Look at how he killed his parents, has genjutsu written all over it. Granted, they also did no resist, but it's highly likely he put them in a genjutsu to paralyze them and then killed them.

    The Uchiha Clan probably numbered over a 100, not a thousand. And with many of them being elderly, children, women, and maybe even non-ninja's, it's not hard to assume that two of the strongest ninjas ever could wipe them out.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Uchiha Clan numbers should be a solid 250 - 300, considering Obito had a stash of 55 - 58 Sharingan and Danzo had about ten of them. As Sharingan is rare amongst Uchiha to begin with, I assume that the original numbers should be tripled to make a fair estimate.

    As for the plotholes, then Karin never picking up Bijuu Chakra in the entire course of their journey from the tentacle is beyond me. It was such a huge plot-hole to facilitate Bee's escape that it riled me if nothing else.

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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by deni2k View Post
    Itachi is a legend and I love him! and together with Obito! They killed evey single one of the Uchihas in Konoha! How could not one single of them not have made a scratch on Itachi? surely Tobi just became invisible! But Itachi vs lets say 1000 uchihas! probably 300 of them with sharingans, and they all just died like that! and even more The Third did not approve of this, surely someone must have noticed that Chackra was beeing used in Konoha! Kakashi, Gai, Asuma? The Third, who had an all seeing eye could not see this? I dont know, this just seems like an unjust way for the uchiha clan to perish from the world! Still I think Itachi is awesome! But think about it Naruto and Sasuke vs Every single uchiha there is? And no one notices it, and not one scratch on Naruto or Sasuke, if they had done this?
    Itachi's one of the fastest ninjas around, fast enough to rival cloaked Naruto and Kirabi. Between that and his skills, he could likely have killed any opposition before they could launch an attack. Not to mention his clone technique, meaning he could have attacked several different areas at the same time, and his genjutsu skills. It's not hard to see why he wouldn't have had a very hard time. Throw in Obito, who was able to take out several Anbu without warning and who's ability is one of the most hax techniques around, and the fact that they attacked late at night, and the majority of their targets would have been dead before anyone knew something was up. And the Uchiha clan probably numbered between 100 to 300 members, with only a faction being powerful enough to possess the Sharingan.

    Sensory ninjas are few and far between, and likely wouldn't have been active late at night. Plus, Danzo likely took measures to ensure no one could interfere or notice. He had the power to do so. Sasuke did take out a 1000-some ninjas without getting a drop of blood on him, and without going all-out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    And secondly Itachi attacked at night in stealth fashion. He likely used genjutsu to subdue most of his clansmen as none of them would be able to do anything about. Look at how he killed his parents, has genjutsu written all over it. Granted, they also did no resist, but it's highly likely he put them in a genjutsu to paralyze them and then killed them.
    I doubt Itachi used that much genjutsu, as there was signs of combat. And definitely doubt he used it on his parents, given the way they all acted and what they said. Itachi's not exactly the type to force vindication.

    Quote Originally Posted by shahdan View Post
    As for the plotholes, then Karin never picking up Bijuu Chakra in the entire course of their journey from the tentacle is beyond me. It was such a huge plot-hole to facilitate Bee's escape that it riled me if nothing else.
    Karin was shown unconscious the entire time, from them traveling from the fight to the place they met up with Obito. So that in itself isn't really a plot-hole.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I doubt Itachi used that much genjutsu, as there was signs of combat. And definitely doubt he used it on his parents, given the way they all acted and what they said. Itachi's not exactly the type to force vindication.
    Itachi always uses a shit ton of a genjutsu, that's his fighting style so I'd say he used plenty.

    And I'd be positive he used it on his parents. Even though he was their son, I don't think Fugaku and his wife would just sit down and let him cut them down. Fugaku was the leader of the Uchiha clan and likely one of the most powerful Jounin in Konoha at this point, I woudl assume Itachi would want to do whatever was necessary to incapacitate his father and mother so he could make their deaths quick and painless. I mean he was crying his eyes out as he ran his sword through them.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    I don't know if this technically is a plot hole but the Uzumaki shringe ground my gears frm the get go. Not only was Naruto, the outcast's, clan a huge deal in Konoha, so much that they had a shrine that he for some reason had no clue about. It also had the powers of the death god in it, and if that mask has that power the question is what else does the masks in there have. And why did no one know about this until Sasuke needed the masks?
    It just doesn't make any sense. And how did they restore the place and the masks after Shinra Tensei? Did they have an archaeological dig? I just don't get that shrine.
    Meh

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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Itachi always uses a shit ton of a genjutsu, that's his fighting style so I'd say he used plenty.
    Itachi does tend to use genjutsus in battle, but as far as we’ve seen to simply succeed without having to kill. During the night of the massacre, he had no need to hold back or avoid the bloodshed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    And I'd be positive he used it on his parents. Even though he was their son, I don't think Fugaku and his wife would just sit down and let him cut them down. Fugaku was the leader of the Uchiha clan and likely one of the most powerful Jounin in Konoha at this point, I woudl assume Itachi would want to do whatever was necessary to incapacitate his father and mother so he could make their deaths quick and painless. I mean he was crying his eyes out as he ran his sword through them.
    Why wouldn’t they, if they loved their children? It’s basically what Itachi himself did later on, “allowing” Sasuke to kill him. I don’t see why they wouldn’t willingly die, if it meant the survival of Sasuke. Nor do I think Itachi would try to justify himself or have his father speak of how proud he was of him. It seems more likely that they probably couldn’t bring themselves to fight against their own son and simply decided to accept death, knowing at least that their children would survive.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Why wouldn’t they, if they loved their children? It’s basically what Itachi himself did later on, “allowing” Sasuke to kill him. I don’t see why they wouldn’t willingly die, if it meant the survival of Sasuke. Nor do I think Itachi would try to justify himself or have his father speak of how proud he was of him. It seems more likely that they probably couldn’t bring themselves to fight against their own son and simply decided to accept death, knowing at least that their children would survive.
    Their children would survive but one would be branded a traitor and the other would be left alone. Fugaku was the clan leader, he had more to worry about than just his own children. Not to mention, if he had the balls to start a Coup, I don't think he'd let his son just kill him. This was bigger than his children, this was about his clan.

    Fugaku accepted his fate, but I doubt he did so willingly. He acknowledged that Itachi was going to suffer far worse than him. And just look how the two of them were sitting, wouldn't they be standing at the very least? It stinks of genjutsu if you ask me.

    ---------- Post added at 02:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Why wouldn’t they, if they loved their children? It’s basically what Itachi himself did later on, “allowing” Sasuke to kill him. I don’t see why they wouldn’t willingly die, if it meant the survival of Sasuke. Nor do I think Itachi would try to justify himself or have his father speak of how proud he was of him. It seems more likely that they probably couldn’t bring themselves to fight against their own son and simply decided to accept death, knowing at least that their children would survive.
    Their children would survive but one would be branded a traitor and the other would be left alone. Fugaku was the clan leader, he had more to worry about than just his own children. Not to mention, if he had the balls to start a Coup, I don't think he'd let his son just kill him. This was bigger than his children, this was about his clan.

    Fugaku accepted his fate, but I doubt he did so willingly. He acknowledged that Itachi was going to suffer far worse than him. And just look how the two of them were sitting, wouldn't they be standing at the very least? It stinks of genjutsu if you ask me.

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    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Their children would survive but one would be branded a traitor and the other would be left alone. Fugaku was the clan leader, he had more to worry about than just his own children. Not to mention, if he had the balls to start a Coup, I don't think he'd let his son just kill him. This was bigger than his children, this was about his clan.

    Fugaku accepted his fate, but I doubt he did so willingly. He acknowledged that Itachi was going to suffer far worse than him. And just look how the two of them were sitting, wouldn't they be standing at the very least? It stinks of genjutsu if you ask me.
    They wouldn’t have known all that though, only that the two would survive. Having greater responsibility wouldn’t stop them from sacrificing for their children, again something Itachi showed us. He would have sacrificed all of Konoha for his little brother. Heck, Kakashi has the fate of the world at stake, yet even he’s been holding back against someone he cared about. Fighting your beloved and favorite child wouldn’t be the same as fighting a bunch of people who discriminated against you.

    He did acknowledge that, followed by how proud he was of him, which is strange to say to someone you were against. Them sitting is just another hint for me, since the way it’s shown is Itachi came up behind them just then and tried to explain before being stopped, after which he killed them just in time for Sasuke to walk in. He was just outside a few moments before watching for Sasuke. And the only genjutsus we’ve seen that allow regular conversations is the regular Sharingan one, and that’s not something that could be used from behind.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    They wouldn’t have known all that though, only that the two would survive. Having greater responsibility wouldn’t stop them from sacrificing for their children, again something Itachi showed us. He would have sacrificed all of Konoha for his little brother. Heck, Kakashi has the fate of the world at stake, yet even he’s been holding back against someone he cared about. Fighting your beloved and favorite child wouldn’t be the same as fighting a bunch of people who discriminated against you.

    He did acknowledge that, followed by how proud he was of him, which is strange to say to someone you were against. Them sitting is just another hint for me, since the way it’s shown is Itachi came up behind them just then and tried to explain before being stopped, after which he killed them just in time for Sasuke to walk in. He was just outside a few moments before watching for Sasuke. And the only genjutsus we’ve seen that allow regular conversations is the regular Sharingan one, and that’s not something that could be used from behind.
    He could have easily used a similar paralyzing genjutsu like he did against Orochimaru. Then ordered them to sit down (he's shown mind control like abilities before so this isn't hard to believe) facing away from him so he wouldn't have to see their faces as he killed them. Itachi was crying his eyes out, this wasn't an easy thing for him to do.

    We didn't see the how he first encountered them. Why would they be up in the middle of the night sitting like that? They likely got out of bed, saw Itachi who immediately put them in a genjutsu and ordered them to sit.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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