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Thread: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

  1. #106
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Itachi was 13 when he became captain, but yeah, Kishi simply sucks at creating a coherent world timeline. But at least he's consistent with his screw-ups.

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  3. #107
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Madara was shown hesitant in continuing the fight with Hashirama before his brother spoke up, and prevented Hashirama from going through with killing himself despite Hashirama doing so obviously granting him the final edge needed to elevate the Uchiha clan and gain revenge for his brother. and Madara's Sharingan was already awakened before the fight at the river. Point is, Madara was just as hesitant until their final battle when he finally went all out. And it still remains you're talking about a time period of 10, maybe 15 years at the most. Doesn't fit in regards to what we have seen.

    Tsunade's ability to regenerate is her regular healing ability forcefully activated and enhanced by the chakra saved up in her seal. And she created the technique to help protect the lives of her comrades, meaning it was developed back when she was fighting in Konoha. And saying that we only witness three occasions of usage simply doesn't work, because we don't even have a single occasion of Hashirama being seriously injured. Even his final battle with Madara didn't show any extra-ordinary damage. If we merely go by what we've seen, then there's nothing to suggest Hashirama ever really had to depend on his regeneration like Tsunade has had too.

    And Tsunade's looks are an illusion thanks to the Transformation technique. It has nothing to do with her medical ability. And it still would be a contradiction because Edo Tensei would bring him back with his real look, not with some technique activated.

    What healing? Naruto's Rasengan didn't do any real damage, and the little it did do remained afterward. If Obito had regeneration, then he wouldn't need to repeatedly replace his limbs.
    1) Hesitation or not, whenever we witnessed their fights against each other, we see them wounded to a certain degree. Considering that they have been fighting each other from a young age until adulthood, it is a logical conclusion that Hashirama would have had to employ his regeneration technique quite often during an era of constant war.

    2) Tsunade may have developed the technique using her head seal while she was in Konoha, but you have to recall that Oro did not recognize it at all when the Sannin fought against each other, strongly implying that it was not used or even known among her comrades until Tsunade reached her 50s. And so far, Tsunade only used the head seal as a last resort (against Oro, Pain, and Madara). Judging by the nature of the situations that compelled her to use her forehead seal technique strongly suggest that it was used only during times of war/near death, of which we are not given even a hint to believe that it has happened more than the three aforementioned occasions.

    Regardless, even if she had used her regeneration technique more than 3 times, it is safe to assume that she had used it much less than the times Hashirama probably had to use during his endless years of war. Thus, it is logical to assume that Hashirama would have suffered more from the shortened lifespan more so than Tsunade.

    - In regards to us never seeing Hashirama seriously wounded, perhaps it's because of his regeneration technique that kicks in spontaneously? and given the decades he spent in war against the Uchiha, it is logical to draw the conclusion that his regeneration technique was used numerous times, thus shortening his lifespan. Consequently, that is most likely why we see Hashirama in his relatively young state when he is revived by the Edo Tensei.

    3) The wiki page is not a reliable source of information, as there is no citation involved in the claim that Tsunade's technique is a normal transformation technique.

    Besides, this is besides the point I am trying to make. His young looks indicate that he died prematurely, which even makes my point that his lifespan must have run out prematurely even stronger.

    4) Obito does heal from Naruto's Rasengan.

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c601/13.html
    Last edited by SuperSaiyan4; June 11, 2013 at 02:44 AM.

  4. #108
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSaiyan4 View Post
    1) Hesitation or not, whenever we witnessed their fights against each other, we see them wounded to a certain degree. Considering that they have been fighting each other from a young age until adulthood, it is a logical conclusion that Hashirama would have had to employ his regeneration technique quite often during an era of constant war.
    We only saw either one wounded in their final confrontation, the one fight where a point was made about them both finally going all out against each other. It's not a logical conclusion when we were shown glimpses of their previous fights, not to mention nothing to indicate Madara ever came close before the final battle to "beating" Hashirama.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSaiyan4 View Post
    2) Tsunade may have developed the technique using her head seal while she was in Konoha, but you have to recall that Oro did not recognize it at all when the Sannin fought against each other, strongly implying that it was not used or even known among her comrades until Tsunade reached her 50s. And so far, Tsunade only used the head seal as a last resort (against Oro, Pain, and Madara). Judging by the nature of the situations that compelled her to use her forehead seal technique strongly suggest that it was used only during times of war/near death, of which we are not given even a hint to believe that it has happened more than the three aforementioned occasions.

    Regardless, even if she had used her regeneration technique more than 3 times, it is safe to assume that she had used it much less than the times Hashirama probably had to use during his endless years of war. Thus, it is logical to assume that Hashirama would have suffered more from the shortened lifespan more so than Tsunade.

    - In regards to us never seeing Hashirama seriously wounded, perhaps it's because of his regeneration technique that kicks in spontaneously? and given the decades he spent in war against the Uchiha, it is logical to draw the conclusion that his regeneration technique was used numerous times, thus shortening his lifespan. Consequently, that is most likely why we see Hashirama in his relatively young state when he is revived by the Edo Tensei.
    All Orochimaru not recognizing it implies is that they didn't always fight together, which we know as we saw she wasn't with the other Sannins when her brother and later Dan died. Tsunade didn't use it against Orochimaru, she used it against Kabuto, who wasn't exactly a powerhouse. And the use against Pain was in conjunction with healing a lot of people, something that would have been done far more then simply healing herself. Regardless, you seem to be forgetting that Tsunade was involved in two world wars before those three incidents.

    No, one would assume that Tsunade had to rely upon her regeneration more, given that not only did she fight over a longer period then Hashirama, but also because she was far weaker and less hax then him. It makes no sense that someone like Hahsirama, who was basically implied to be stronger then five kages at once, would have more trouble in battle then Tsunade, who could barely handle the likes of Kabuto.

    Or perhaps it's because we never actually saw him in battle, which is the same claim you used against Tsunade. If it was instantaneous, he wouldn't have been so bloody against Madara in their final battle. And it's not that logically considering how OP he has been made out to be. If that was the case, wouldn't one have to make the same assumption for Madara and Tobirama, both of whom dealt with the same situations?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSaiyan4 View Post
    3) The wiki page is not a reliable source of information, as there is no citation involved in the claim that Tsunade's technique is a normal transformation technique.

    Besides, this is besides the point I am trying to make. His young looks indicate that he died prematurely, which even makes my point that his lifespan must have run out prematurely even stronger.
    Good enough here since I'm incapable of of using the actual VIZ book, not to mention there are citations on her own page. More importantly, there's nothing to point to it not being the Transformation technique.

    The point is that there's no reason to believe that he somehow overtaxed himself to the point of shortening his own life span. Makes more sense that he was killed in some unique way, like with Tobirama and Minato, both who also died "young". It could easily have been a situation like with the Sandaime Raikage, where despite being invincible, still ended up being killed.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSaiyan4 View Post
    4) Obito does heal from Naruto's Rasengan.

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c601/13.html
    That wasn't healing, that was something else seemingly involving Obito's reason for doing what he did.
    Last edited by Rikudou King; June 12, 2013 at 10:34 PM.

  5. #109
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    I just remembered this! Kushina telling Naruto that Mikoto, Hashirama's wife became the Host of the nine tails during this fight and aided Hashirama?

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-54942-...apter-500.html

    Even at the very end of the fight, she is no where to be seen? She could not have been a part of this fight at all, as she would have no chance of surviving!
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/626/17

  6. #110
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    There's an obvious time skip between when Hashirama takes control of the Kyuubi from Madara near the ocean, and when they have their final exchange at the VotE. Since Hashirama simply leaving the Kyuubi sitting somewhere where madara could simply retake control makes little sense, it's reasonable to believe that's when Mito came and sealed the Kyuubi.

  7. #111
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    In regard of Naruto's Rasengan power, this is something that bugs me a lot. Remember in Part 1 where he used Rasengan against Sasuke in the Hospital roof top?
    He blasted a water tank wide open:



    And yet when he fought Obito, he was in Super Saiyan mode and a lot more experienced with Rasengan, all he did was cracking a mask, that I would assume is made out of wood:



    Shouldn't he be blasting through Obito's skull easily, like he blasted through the metal water tank when he was a kid?

    Kishimoto's inconsistency, I guess.

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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Not necessarily, since Tobi's mask could be one of the hardest materials ever. Even Naruto's headbutt barely did anything to it. Didn't Naruto even hit Tobi's arm with the rasengan? I'm guessing the materials that make up Tobi's limbs and his mask are hard as hell.

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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Not necessarily, since Tobi's mask could be one of the hardest materials ever. Even Naruto's headbutt barely did anything to it. Didn't Naruto even hit Tobi's arm with the rasengan? I'm guessing the materials that make up Tobi's limbs and his mask are hard as hell.
    konan did the most damage to tobis mask if i recall correctly

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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    konan did the most damage to tobis mask if i recall correctly
    That was a different Mask, may be made of different material (Probably a weaker and light material)

  11. #115
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by Teppei View Post
    In regard of Naruto's Rasengan power, this is something that bugs me a lot. Remember in Part 1 where he used Rasengan against Sasuke in the Hospital roof top?
    He blasted a water tank wide open:



    And yet when he fought Obito, he was in Super Saiyan mode and a lot more experienced with Rasengan, all he did was cracking a mask, that I would assume is made out of wood:



    Shouldn't he be blasting through Obito's skull easily, like he blasted through the metal water tank when he was a kid?

    Kishimoto's inconsistency, I guess.
    The Rasengan has always shown less damage against a living target then an inanimate object. Even before the fight on the hospital, Jiraiya hit that gangster and Naruto hit Kabuto without ripping them apart. Heck, Kakuzu got hit by the FRS that created a huge crater, yet it left his body intact.

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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Jiraiya said he used a weakened rasengan to avoid killing the gangster, while Kabuto was already starting to heal before the rasengan hit him. Tsunade also said the FRS acted more like a poison with all the needles stabbing at every cells, though he could have probably not been ripped to pieces because of the hearts.

    Or it's plot to keep Naruto as pure as a snow.

  13. #117
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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Still, both attacks caused the target to go crashing backward some distances, and in Kabuto's case actually shattered the rock behind him. Yet it barely broke the skin. And when the FRS exploded, it craved a huge hole in the ground surrounding Kakuzu. So there's a clear difference between the damage to mediums.

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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    I'm guessing rasengan does more damage to the insides than it does outside? Though even if Kabuto was prepared, he shoudl have suffered worse damage, as well as the gangster. It's weird but meh.

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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    This isn't really a plot hole but I found this page interesting

    From right to left we have Zetsu, Pain, Konan, Sasori, Deidara, Itachi, Hidan, Kakazu, and Kisame.

    Except those aren't Hidan and Kakazu. At the very least, it's not Hidan, because he isn't a giant. And Kakazu isn't taller than Kisame, whom to my knowledge was the tallest character in the manga up until the Raikage with only Jiraiya and Asuma challenging him height wise.

    It does makes sense (the tall guy) because we know Kakazu killed his previous partner, but I wonder who that giant guy was supposed to be?
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Let's talk about fun "plotholes"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Still, both attacks caused the target to go crashing backward some distances, and in Kabuto's case actually shattered the rock behind him. Yet it barely broke the skin. And when the FRS exploded, it craved a huge hole in the ground surrounding Kakuzu. So there's a clear difference between the damage to mediums.
    Well as Kabuto stated himself that he started to heal his abdoman area before he got hit.
    In case of Kakuzu breaking two masks means killing him twice, and his body was special / different.

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