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Thread: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    What in the manga suggests masaki was that strong? I mean, she did take on that hollow but in the end the whole thing was reduced to luck. White was not even a proper captain level foe and her reaction to it was "I can't keep up with it". Had the hollow actually aim to kill and not to infect here things would have been dramatically different. Overall I would think masaki as we saw her stood on the fodder end of the scale so to speak. She could have grown into an actual captain class fighter but we never saw anything even resembling that. Even then, masaki getting to a point where she could even be a match for aizen would be strange considering aizen was the sort to give captain level fighters the fodder treatment.
    Through the verification of what she did being Blut Vene (which I thought it was when the chapter came out), the term luck quickly gets out of the picture.

    White was certainly captain lvl. Isshin had to work his arse to combat it in Shikai. The same Isshin that combated Aizen.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Ishin did somehow fight evenly with aizen although the circumstances of him growing strong to that point are not yet explained. It didn't seem like he was that strong a fighter during the flashback. Certainly captain class but able to fight on par with aizen? Something is way off here....
    He regained his shinigami abilities. He never had time to grow stronger, thus the Isshin of the flashback is the same of the present.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    As for uryu being strong enough to be a stern rittern.... Definitely not, at least not as he was the last time we saw him fight. If he was a captain level fighter I don't think things would have turned out the way they did in regards to him. He is certainly going to grow stronger very fast though. Now that he joined vandenreich he is certainly going to learn blutz which is going to significantly, if not dramatically, increase his offense and defense and he is going to acquire volstandig which would certainly allow him to fight at least close to what captains can do even if his base abilities remain what we have seen so far.
    Uryu is already captain lvl which is remarkable when you consider he is human. During the SS arc, he was young & new in the things of the quincy. He went to SS with whatever little power he had http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...86-page-9.html & yet an inferior final form embarrassed a captain & split a captain's bankai in half with mere arrows.

    A superior final form used by a superior Uryu (Captain lvl) isn't merely going to fight against "at least close to what captains can do" when he could do that already 2 years ago in an inferior final form with inferior skills & power.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma View Post
    Isshin is actually above Aizen. All he'd need to do is use FGT and Aizen wouldn't stand a chance. I don't think that base Isshin is below base Aizen either. The way I see it, if Isshin is capable of using something as ridiculously strong as FGT, then Engetsu as a whole must be really strong. It has the potential to surpass each and anyone in SS after all. It isn't unthinkable that Isshin is extremely powerful, even if he were portrayed as just another Captain.
    You are probably correct about FGT, if Isshin wishes to use it or can even still perform it, but I wasn't even thinking about that. I was thinking about their base abilities as Captains. I believe that base Aizen is superior to base Isshin. I know Isshin is powerful, but I don't he is on Aizen's level. Maybe a tier below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma View Post
    Clearly, Isshin didn't go all-out against White, not even close. Also, the fact that Aizen went as far as to go to their location to stop Isshin from using his Bankai should give an indication of how strong Isshin is.

    There's also the likely possibility that Isshin had a limiter on him. I think that the user can activate the limiter by himself, just like it can be deactivated by the user. Otherwise it's too big of a hassle.
    Aizen just wanted a closer look. He didn't go there specifically to stop Isshin from using bankai. I assume he did it moreso to test White's strength and get a stronger guinea pig. I will agree with the limiter, though. Although considering Isshin went to the Human World without permission makes me think he didn't have one.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member conn-man's Avatar
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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    Umm..Volstanding most likely. A transformed state that allows him to fight with captains and even Ichigo if it comes to that. If you ask me Bach looks to be pretty giddy about seeing Uryuu.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Through the verification of what she did being Blut Vene (which I thought it was when the chapter came out), the term luck quickly gets out of the picture.

    White was certainly captain lvl. Isshin had to work his arse to combat it in Shikai. The same Isshin that combated Aizen.

    He regained his shinigami abilities. He never had time to grow stronger, thus the Isshin of the flashback is the same of the present.

    Uryu is already captain lvl which is remarkable when you consider he is human. During the SS arc, he was young & new in the things of the quincy. He went to SS with whatever little power he had http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...86-page-9.html & yet an inferior final form embarrassed a captain & split a captain's bankai in half with mere arrows.

    A superior final form used by a superior Uryu (Captain lvl) isn't merely going to fight against "at least close to what captains can do" when he could do that already 2 years ago in an inferior final form with inferior skills & power.
    White was most certainly not captain level.... Ishin was about to defeat it with just shikai which in the grand scheme of things means ishin could defeat it with roughly 10% of his combat capacity. More so, even aizen pointed out that white was a failure if he could be defeated by a simple shikai. If ishin had been as powerful as aizen back then (ishin presumably was also under the effect of KS considering he was a captain while aizen made the point of keeping everyone under the effects of it). If ishin had been that powerful back then aizen wouldn't have made a generic comment regarding his strength overall. Losing to ishin's shikai (apparently instantly for that matter) wouldn't have been something which would make white a failure.

    Why would uryu be captain level? Not a single manga moment has shown uryu as such so far, not even his most recent encounter with ginjo. Granted the quincy final form was extremely powerful but as far as we know that is not a power which ishida currently has available to him. Ishida needs a severe power boost as far as we know so far.

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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    Quote Originally Posted by eefrit View Post
    You are probably correct about FGT, if Isshin wishes to use it or can even still perform it, but I wasn't even thinking about that. I was thinking about their base abilities as Captains. I believe that base Aizen is superior to base Isshin. I know Isshin is powerful, but I don't he is on Aizen's level. Maybe a tier below.



    Aizen just wanted a closer look. He didn't go there specifically to stop Isshin from using bankai. I assume he did it moreso to test White's strength and get a stronger guinea pig. I will agree with the limiter, though. Although considering Isshin went to the Human World without permission makes me think he didn't have one.
    Well, we saw that they deactivate the limiter themselves. It isn't strange if they would also activate it themselves. In fact, it would be a lot easier than having a third party activate it each and every time. They still need permission from SS to deactivate it though.

    ---------- Post added at 08:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    White was most certainly not captain level.... Ishin was about to defeat it with just shikai which in the grand scheme of things means ishin could defeat it with roughly 10% of his combat capacity. More so, even aizen pointed out that white was a failure if he could be defeated by a simple shikai. If ishin had been as powerful as aizen back then (ishin presumably was also under the effect of KS considering he was a captain while aizen made the point of keeping everyone under the effects of it). If ishin had been that powerful back then aizen wouldn't have made a generic comment regarding his strength overall. Losing to ishin's shikai (apparently instantly for that matter) wouldn't have been something which would make white a failure.

    Why would uryu be captain level? Not a single manga moment has shown uryu as such so far, not even his most recent encounter with ginjo. Granted the quincy final form was extremely powerful but as far as we know that is not a power which ishida currently has available to him. Ishida needs a severe power boost as far as we know so far.

    That is unless Isshin was actually with the Spiritual Limiter activated, which I believe he was. Otherwise, it would have been far too big of a risk for him to go to the Human World without being sure of what he would run into. I don't think he'd risk disrupting the Human World by going there without a limiter.

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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    Masaki isn't stronger than Aizen or even White, imo. Isshin was struggling against White, but he was handicapped. And he actually dealt White some good damage anyway. Masaki wasn't even able to land a hit on it, it wasn't until it bit her that she was able to do anything. And the reason it bit her instead of just killing her is because that's what it was programmed to do. Even still, it managed to break through her Blut Vene. And I've always thought Isshin's performance against Aizen was overrated as well. He did well, but the only hit he actually landed didn't harm Aizen at all, and Aizen's tiredness seemed to be an effect of the Hogyoku.

    But that has nothing to do with the topic, so, on topic...

    The mark of a Stern Ritter is a cape with the VR symbol on it, but the main thing I noticed about Uryu's uniform was his badge. I personally think that badge is a Special War Potential. Quilge did imply that Uryu was stronger than him as well. Whilst I'm sure there are stronger and weaker Stern Ritter, they should be of at least an equivalent power level. For Quilge to say that about Uryu would suggest that he's more than a Stern Ritter, though again, it's just a hint and not confirmation.

    I'm wondering what it is about Uryu that makes him so special in Juhabach's eyes. I expected him to be stronger than he was in HM (and he wasn't a weakling there, although not strong enough to take on an Espada), but no stronger than a SR, or even as strong as one for that matter. Something must have changed for him to have leapt so far in such a relatively short span, I think. There's the hint that his grandmother was bitten by a Hollow, which might have affected him in some way, although in the Fullbringers' cases it was their mothers, not grandmothers who passed them the power. We don't know what effect a Hollow bite would have two generations down the line. Plus, Bach apparently robbed Masaki of her powers for the very same reason, having been tainted with Hollow power, and she had been a pureblood on top of that, unlike Uryu. Maybe, in the same way being trapped in Quilge's prison unlocked Ichigo's Quincy power, being struck by Ginjo's Fullbring unlocked something in Uryu. Even so, I can't think what makes him unique enough to be placed above the Stern Ritter.

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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    Somehow it feels like Ryuuken did hold Uryu back in terms of power through his training, it feels as if he was trying to suppress Uryu's potential.
    For one by telling Uryu that he has no talent, not wanting to train him, and the sudden change of heart to train him seemed to be more to protect him so he can fight hollows after Uryu almost died from a hollow attack, but not to awaken his true poentential.

    It sounds odd, but I'm pretty sure Ryuuken is on the goods side indirectly, he appears twisted, but in the end he's likely going to end up joining Urahara and Isshin in a trio alliance.

    Anyhow, I think the reason Uryu will raise dramatically in power now is the lack of serious training, and probably have to agree that he'll learn techniques that the Ishida's don't use, i.e. Souken being against Fullstanding.

    ---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

    Regarding the Aizen vs. Masaki debat.... Wut? kidding me?
    She sacirficed her own body to get a hit on White, she could not hit White, she could not counter him to create an opening, all she could do was sacrifice her body, in order to make a shot.
    She fired a Quincy arrow gun to its head, I don't care how strong an opponent is, taking an arrow to ones head like that would outdo almost anyone.

    Wishful thinking is what it is, it's not even a theory in my eyes, as theories are backed by logic, and not wishful thinking. Sorry for being harsh, but it has to be said.

    Absolutely nothing did indicate that Masaki was strong, great potential yes, but she did not have the strength to pull it off, what she on the other hand had was guts and a strong will.

    What you're mixing together is her strong will, potential and guts with her actual current powers, which she clearly is lakcing.
    All she did was a headshot, how in the world does that prove her strong?

    Even so, Arrows are made of Rishi, and unlike what Zaraki did explain to Ichigo where zanpaktou's required a strong sharp reatsu in order to cut.
    Rishi is the same bodies are made of, thereby by shooting an arrow with Rishi, it's probably going to hurt insanely lot on even strong opponents, when you have no defense against a Rishi attack.
    Rishi is not like reatsu, we have not seen a defense against it, well perhaps blue vene, but we're talking about against Hollows and Shinigami here.

    I'm certain that Masaki would be able to shoot that Rishi arrow into anybody's head no matter how strong she is, and tbh, that proves nothing about her powers, and she littereally did nothing else, she wasnt cable of speed either.

    She did show mental strength, guts and will power, don't confuse that with acutal power.

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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Didn't you read the chapter? Blowing the head off from a Hollow that Isshin had trouble cutting, and her Blutz is naturally strong too, combined with her clearly shown Quincy mastery?
    And how does that qualifies her to take on Aizen ?

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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantized View Post
    Somehow it feels like Ryuuken did hold Uryu back in terms of power through his training, it feels as if he was trying to suppress Uryu's potential.
    For one by telling Uryu that he has no talent, not wanting to train him, and the sudden change of heart to train him seemed to be more to protect him so he can fight hollows after Uryu almost died from a hollow attack, but not to awaken his true poentential.

    It sounds odd, but I'm pretty sure Ryuuken is on the goods side indirectly, he appears twisted, but in the end he's likely going to end up joining Urahara and Isshin in a trio alliance.

    Anyhow, I think the reason Uryu will raise dramatically in power now is the lack of serious training, and probably have to agree that he'll learn techniques that the Ishida's don't use, i.e. Souken being against Fullstanding.
    That sounds really plausible actually. Ryuken's somewhat flimsy reason for not living as a Quincy, despite the fact that he's kept a training room hidden, which he's probably been using since his skills are far from dull, could all have been part of an effort to keep Uryu form involving himself with the Quincy life in an attempt to keep Bach's eye off him.

    The odd thing is that Souken took it upon himself to train Uryu instead. If you're right about Ryuken's intentions, Souken apparently had different ideas. But Souken wasn't in league with the Vandenreich, instead wanting to work alongside Shinigami for the common good. So maybe his approach was to make Uryu strong enough to resist Bach. Perhaps his thinking was that Uryu couldn't outrun his fate forever. Ryuken's willingness to train Uryu before he ran off to HM may have been because he finally came to understand Souken's thoughts on the matter. The page in the latest chapter with Ryuken standing by the window, looking out at the rain gave me the sense that he was disappointed, knowing what Uryu's gone and done. It could be the very thing he's feared the most for Uryu.
    Last edited by NoOneInParticular; May 19, 2013 at 11:39 AM.

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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    And how does that qualifies her to take on Aizen ?
    Well, now you wont get an answer from the person who supposedly has read the manga a couple dozen times. I was still waiting for a reply in the Kenpachi thread.

    Plotwise it shouldn't have made any sense for Masaki to be as strong a Aizen, who was capable of immense things for a whole century already.
    Last edited by Schabrak; May 20, 2013 at 07:21 AM.
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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    I think Uryu's Stern Ritter letter (if he's given one) will be either L or R.

    L and/or R would be interesting because in Japanese you use R instead of L because there's no L sound in Japanese.

    If he is L and/or R then it can emphasise how he isn't who he's truly supposed to be, perhaps foreshadowing that he has been brainwashed?

    The evidence is that the previous SR R, the Roar, was kileld by Kenpachi so it would make sense for Yhwach to replace him. Also Uryu's special move in which he fires thousands of arrows at once is called Licht Regen which is German for Light Rain. No other Quincy has been shown to be able to replicate this feet so I believe this is his personal ability.

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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    I would disagree with the rain of arrows uryu has used at times being an innate skill. The first thing to consider here is that the rain of arrows was at large attributed to the specific bow ishida was using at the time. If I recall even ishida made that point. The second issue here is that the stern rittern not having shown that so far is not entirely relevant in context so far. Vandenreich's approach to the holy arrow and how they use it is different from the approach used by the standard quincy so far. Vandenreich uses a highly individualized version of the holy arrow. They combine their holy crosses with their personal weapon of choice resulting in very unique effects. Ishida is overall not doing this as far as I can tell. Interestingly, ishida has not actually shown anything that would earn him a letter so to speak. Up to this point in the manga it does not seem like he has any unique skills, he only seems to have standard and generic quincy abilities.

    I guess the big question is what exactly will be ishida's special technique.

    For that matter, there are plenty other letters ishida could be given. As of now the letters J, Q, R, l and Y are clear for the taking. We don't know if there are other letters which were for whatever reason not taken or if a stern ritern can loose his position if someone more qualified appears though.

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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Isshin wouldn't have been able to beat it without giving his all, and he's at around Aizen's level. Combine Masaki's tiny bow doing that much damage, her mastery of Quincy abilities and Blutz, it's something Aizen would have a hard time fighting directly.
    Aizen and Ishinn fought for what was it, a whole minute? Not enough to show where Ishinn stood. Beside comparing results from 1 fight doesn't give any definite proof on another. People see "strenght" so black and white in bleach. Character A beats character B. But character C gets stomped by character B. A lot of people then immediately assume that character A therefore would beat character C in a fight, even though they have never fought. Thus they say A is stronger than C, and rank them in this order:
    A as the strongest
    B
    C as the weakest

    This is very, very flawed black and white thinking, toying with absolutes. Match-ups and conditions matter. Taking above example, what if character C manages to beat A? Or what if character A and B fought 10 times during the same week? It would not be abnormal the see this as a result: A-6 vicories, B 4 victories. In fact, this would be more natural. Someon defeating another person does not mean he is stronger, more skillful, etc. by definition. You're not only comparing indirect fights in a way of thinking that is close to what I described, you're making wild guesses about power levels to fill in WIDE gaps and then present them almost as a fact.
    You cannot come even close to determining Masaki's power level if the only thing we saw her do was "suicide" killing a hollow experiment at point blank range. Not nearly enough material on her abilities and such.

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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    Uryu gonna be special it is for sure, and the reason for is case he lost his powers once, if all quincy abilitys come from Bachs blood, then I gues Uryu got purified when he used Letz Still. Ryuuken probably now gave part of his own power to Uryu, or awakened his own. That's why I gues hi is gonna be special, at one point Bach will try to suck Ishida's powers in, and will fail. As for letter, its probably gonna be "P" for Pride.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Zeta42's Avatar
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    Re: Uryu as a Stern Ritter

    "P" for Pride, huh. Well, let's have a look at other known letters.

    As Nodt: "F" for Fear - induces fear in his enemies.
    Quilge Opie: "J" for Jail - traps non-Quincies.
    Driscoll Berci: "O" for Overkill - gets stronger with every enemy he kills.
    Berenice Gabrielle: "Q" for Question - apparently, makes an enemy question and doubt everything.
    Jerome Guizbatt: "R" for Roar - knocks enemies down by screaming.
    Lloyd twins: "Y" for Yourself - Loyd can copy appearance and powers, Royd can copy appearance and memories.

    Now somebody tell me how Pride can be a special power.

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