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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
To Itachi's ability to kill him or not its relevant but that was not that point. If you are asking this then his inability to kill Tobi all this time and even his last effort to do so and failing speaks about his ability to do so.Quote:
Also take into account that Tobi avoiding a direct confrontation with Itachi is also perfecly fine when we consider Itachi inability to kill him.
Now the point was that Itachi failed. Itachi failed to achive what he set to do and Tobi won. Tobi won in the end trough Sasuke and how he was able to control Itachi.
Because Itachi was more then incredible. Point was if Tobi could handle Itachi or not and he could. Itachi was never manipulated the way Nagato was but Tobi handled Itachi in a way that in the end he got what he needed.Quote:
The only relevant point here is that Kishi did NOT claim that Tobi and Nagato where allies. He stated colaborates and this word does NOT mean Tobi could not be above Nagato. You said that Kishi claimed they where equals trough that and he never did so.Quote:
Also Raikage does not to negotiate certain aspects but obviously not everything. He is above them. Look at the Hokage. He is nr 1 in the village but even he can't do whatever he feels like. He himself has to consult with elders and what not.
I also like to point out that decisions like killing the 9 tails host needs aproval:
Makes sense to.
Perhaps its not 100% but its just about confirmed...Quote:
I am not contradicting Konan. Its just that she never stated Nagato was not working under Tobi and folowing his commands. She claimed Nagato was not his puppet (and he was clear fact).
Now Nagato and the plan with the Biju bomb is what Tobi put in his head. Yes i do not have a direcly link for this but its obvious.
Pan was used:
Nagato was under the impresion that they wanted the Biju's for that reason. To create said weapon. He even belives HE created aka:
We all know they where manipulated into it.
In the end look how Tobi refers to Nagato:
Now here indirecly claiming that Nagato was controled:
He refers to Sasuke and how he needs to do the same...
This goes against that 1 of them is allowed to ORDER the other 1 around AND can even imply that he would not accept him to fail. Equals don't call the other minion and orders him around and makes it clear they would nto accept them to fail...Quote:
Neah he knew he needed the rinnegan and he knew that Nagato is going to return. Its a good posibility that Tobi even had a hand in killing Yahiko. I mean ask yourself why would Hanzo demand Nagato to kill Yahiko? Yahiko was the one to see trough "Madara" and disagree with him keeping Nagato away from him.Quote:
Problem is the minon aka Nagato actualy was doing what Tobi was instructing him to do.Quote:
Nobody made the claim that Sasuke was ORDERED. IT was even flat out stated he MADE A PROMICE to do something for Tobi. Its clearly not the same.Quote:
Last edited by xXan; May 23, 2013 at 06:56 AM.
If someone really loves the village, then with his powers he will do everything to beat or even kill the threats.
The Uchiha clan was a threat to the village so Itachi decided to kill his clanmates even his own family (except Sasuke). And Obito (whom he perceived as Madara) was for sure should be perceived by Itachi (a genius at that) as a big threat!...So he was supposed to bang Obito to end the source of one of the greatest threats to Konoha welfare, but he didn't do it. Instead he just made a truce for him not to touch Sasuke and the village. He just could have attempted to kill Obito to end possible threat. Instead he served as a best actor in fooling everyone that he's a villain, and never made a move to beat or kill the major threats like Nagato or Obito.
As a conclusion, Itachi really respected Obito and Nagato's powers...that somehow he can be beaten by the two had he attempted to do things wildly and fight either Obito or Nagato. By being so cautious he failed. Sasuke went psychopath that he wanted to destry the Konoha thanks to Hashirama's Talk no Jutsu.
As to superiority Nagato commands the Akatsuki, but Obito is the one manipulating the shadows behind the scenes. He ordered Obito to get the tailed beasts and somehow has a better control over Itachi's desires. He had his eyes over Itachi like he's more brilliant. He made Itachi failed. At the very end if we look at the things closely Obito has the orders, and thus can be considered superior than the rest.
If you're handling someone and have them were you want them to be, it wouldn't be possible for them to cause that much problems for you.Quote:
And you have a proof the he's above Nagato ? As I said, had he been a subordinate, Kishimoto wouldn't have said they were collaborating. I'll just post something you once said :Quote:
He negotiate almost everything important.
That link actually proves my point, you posted it there in order to avoid me using it against you.
It's not "About confirmed."Quote:
She stated that he wasn't his pawn and that he did what he wanted to do. Nagato once again, was never his pawn. He had his own goals, and his own ways of doing things. How is it obvious ? Do you think by saying it's obvious, I'll somehow submit to it. He was doing what he believed Yahiko would do. He couldn't careless about Obito's Mugen Tsukuyomi plan. The Bijuu weapon was HIS plan and his alone.
So now we're going to take Minato's words even though he added "Probably" to it ? No, not happening.
Nagato was indeed the one who created the knew Akatsuki. He wasn't lying. Although Yahiko created the original one.
In which Konan stated to be false. He wasn't his minion.
This is what Obito meant in the last link. He tricked Nagato into helping him by using the darkness in him. He even said he was just too easily influenced. But it's factually proven that Nagato had his own plan and that he didn't care about Obito's.
He never stated he was his minion in front of him now did he ? Again, Konan said they weren't his minions. When Naruto later encountered the real Madara, he stated that they TIRED to use him...they failed. The fact that Obito couldn't force the MT plan on Nagato indicating that he's not his superior.Quote:
In the end it was begging. It's not likely that he had a hand in it. Hanzo wanted Yahiko dead because he was the leader of the Akatsuki, which caused Hanzo a lot of problems.Quote:
Not really. He was doing what he wanted.Quote:
It's the same. Again, Obito and Nagato's alliance was more of a long term one.Quote:
Also, look here. He said he will hunt the Kyuubi whenever HE wants. You think someone would speak in such manner to a superior ? Obito then told him how waiting will make things problematic, and that it's best to move now. You would think that the superior would have to force orders on him. The way this conversation went is exactly the same way Sasuke and Obito's conversation went.
---------- Post added at 06:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:50 PM ----------
In what way did Nagato say that Itachi was being used by Obito ? He said they were being used, he didn't say by who.
I would need you to link me the bold part.
And you should quite your lying habits as well as your hypocrisy.Quote:
oh is very relevant you just need to look beyong a direct confrontation. Tobi used his strategy to keep Itachi in line (more or less).Quote:
If Tobi could or not beat him in a 1vs1 is completly irrelevant.
What problems? The only "problem" i can think of is that Tobi conforming to his deal with Itachi did NOT attack konoha... Not that he needed to as Kyuubi was needed last and in the end he got Sasuke for his troubles... Again what problems?Quote:
Colaboration does not deny suburdonation...Quote:
No that is you using Kishi words that most defenetly don't state what you whant them to state and calling me a hypocrit because i actualy KNOW the meaning of a word.Quote:
Kishi did not state Tobi is inferior or equal to Tobi. He stated they are colaborating.
Again you find me Kishi stating they where EQUALS and all is fine.. Just don't give me "colaborating" and tell me this somehow is Kishi's words on how they are equals...
Again you whant to use Kishi's words? Fine buy find me him actualy making the claims you whant him to make...
If you actualy belive Nagato was not Tobi's pawn and he was not manipulated by Tobi then you are the only one alive who belives it.Quote:
Read the entire thing.Quote:
Considering Tobi stated he created Aka (in other words Madara) this is going to be something hard to swallow.Quote:
And then adds that he gave him his eyes:
Gues what. We have confirmation Madara gave him the eyes so why would we deny the other one?
Konan is just a foolish little girl:
Sure he was. She just loved Nagato to much to see it. As Tobi put it. She was just a foolish little girl...Quote:
And that is why he was following Obito's orders like a good little puppy...Quote:
Why would he? Because he is no moron.. Why would he antagonize him for no reason?Quote:
When did Madara stated that?
Why would Tobi reveal the truth? The MT plan? He did not reveal who he really is, Izanagi and a bunch of other shit. Stating lies like to Nagato and making him hear only what he wanted to hear would be so much better would it not?
That is NOT begging. Its a way for him to get contacted in case Nagato changed his mind... If you would make a proposal in real life to someone and he refused at first and you would ask him to leave your phone number in case he changes his mind would that be begging?Quote:
Yeah that is why what he was doing had the "I WAS ORDERED TO" attacked to it.Quote:
Eh not really. He actualy states that now that JMan is dead they are free to move in an attack when they feel like.Quote:
This is another translation from this site. It makes said point better i belive.
In the end that is the point. That just means he is free now that Jman is dead.Quote:
Now how it followed is with Tobi explaining why they can't w8 and why it will be harder. Then in 1 translation he enfored with "get moving". Its better to explain why its dumb to w8 then bark orders.
Konan and Nagato both approved Mugen Tsukuyomi Project.
Just as I remembered it was stated by Obito in that fight I immediately went for the video as taking into manga chapters somehow takes time. But I was shocked with the link I didn't find the MT conversation.
Even the entrance where Konan was behind Obito wasn't there.
Well thanks for the comment and reminder...so odd...
---------- Post added at 06:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------
I will however answer to this :
We already saw the flashback and he did NOT create the Akatsuki. Madara didn't even mention Yahiko, who was the one that created the Akatsuki. That's why we should deny the second one.Quote:
It's absolutely irrelevant considering we're trying to see who's stronger than who.Quote:
You did not exacly see its birth. You noticed the aka already formed and moving.Quote:
You can facepalm all you whant but to decide if Itachi was able to handle Itachi or NOT has nothing to do with Tobi ability to 1vs1 Itachi. ABSOLUTLY NONE.Quote:
You can handle someone trough tactics, manipulation and other shit.
This was originally meant to see who's stronger. Handling him through tactics, manipulation and other shit has nothing to do with the original point.Quote:
But anyway, minato is indeed an idiot for not recognizing his student's voice who wore a masked. Are you happy now?
These guys never ceases to amaze me. Yea, i'm out.
---------- Post added at 01:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 AM ----------
But anyway, for minato, obito is dead.
For minato, obito doesn't have any S/T jutsu.
For minato, obito can't control the kyubi.
For minato, obito doesn''t know any top secret barrier.
For minato, doesn't know anything on a secret info, like a female jinchuuriki pregnancy took atleast 10 months.
Minato thought that the masked man is madara simply because only madara has the knowledge of all that info. And its kinda nonsense that minato will recognize obito. Because obito at that time is like madara's junior. Half uchiha half senju.
Oh, i think obito is in the konoha at that time while he was standing on a pole (like naruto and sasuke did for returning to konoha) before summoning the kyubi.
Okay now, that would be your homework pal. And You should be thankful. You already had a clues.
Last edited by marshall313; May 25, 2013 at 01:27 AM.
And for Itachi, he never even knew someone called Obito existed. Enough with your hypocrisy. You mock Itachi for not being able to recognize who Tobi really was, yet, make Minato a genius for not realizing it. And you don't even have the courage to admit it, and instead pretend that you never mocked Itachi and that he wasn't in this topic to begin with.
Maybe you should learn what "Common sense" mean, because you've been throwing it around without even understanding it. If you don't have a manga scan showing that Itachi was being manipulated by Obito, then spare me your non-existent manga facts.Quote:
So you were lying like always ? And you're telling me to find it because you won't admit your lies ? Nice try.Quote:
Yes, lying. Otherwise, why won't you show me your non-existent manga facts ?Quote:
No. you're the one who started this topic, right? don't remember anything, don't yah?
Minato clearly realized that the masked man isn't madara. But he can't realized him as obito because the masked man is entirely different from his student.
Nagato clearly admitted that in the end, both of them was being used by obito. Is that even hard to understand?
But don't worry, my server is down at this moment. Maybe later. i'm gonna enlighten you with the truth.
I just never thought that your knowledge to this manga is just limited.
So, i'm sorry.
The funny thing is that Obito fooled two of the greatest ninjas in the narutoverse - Itachi and Minato, but is now turning like a pussy.....
I was the one who started it ? Then explain this :Quote:
If they do exist, then why don't you link them ?Quote:
Nagato said they were both Shinobi who were being used. He NEVER said that they both were used by Obito.
So you expect me to go through 600 chapters looking for a statement that I know full well it doesn't exist ? It's about time you admit your lies. You lied and you were caught, and now to make it seem like you didn't lie, you ask me to look for it knowing full well that I'm never gonna find it because it's a lie ?Quote:
Later, eh ? So now you attempt to run away without admitting your lies ?Quote:
The boy who cried wolf has nothing on you...Quote:
Last edited by KingOfNight; May 25, 2013 at 07:37 AM.