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Thread: Who is the best in each element?

  1. #16
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Prince Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    Then we see it two different ways.

    Sasuke CONTROL and GUIDED the lightning dragon right on top of Itachi. If you don't understand that then I really don't know what to tell you.

    Dauri's jutsu isn't Natural lightning...so no comparison really.

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    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    Kirn is not the one deserving of the credit here, it's the creator of Kirin and that's Sasuke.

    What Sasuke did with Kirin is like what Naruto did with FRS, any skill ration user can't do it. Sasuke is the only ration user to take control of natural lightning... That's simply amazing. That would be like a wind user taking control of a tornado.

    Raikage has nothing that can out do Kirin in all forms.
    Sasuke is the only user to utilise naturally occurring lightning because he's the only one who has been in a situation in which he could. Considering that many techniques utilise the naturally occurring form of their element, it wouldn't be out of place for lightning element users to do the same.

    And the Third Raikage has a lot to outdo Kirin. His Raiton Armour and the attacks he draws from it are likely far superior to Kirin; in both power and versatility.

  3. #18
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    Don't even take that silly shape manipulation seriously. You really think that a guy who's fighting for his life who is at his limit, down to his last trump card still cares about artistic integrity, especially when it wastes chakra? That stuff is just there for us, the reader. If not, then Sasuke pales in comparison to the almighty Guy, who is able to punch in such a specific way that the air friction is molded into a tiger. Seriously?

    Kirin is cool and all, but it doesn't use because it doesn't *need* much nature manipulation, the electricity is already up for grabs in the air. It's actually much more dependent on Katon skills to create the right conditions for a thunderstorm. After that all you need is an antenna. Doesn't make him the best Raiton user.

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  5. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    No, sasuke's kirin isn't impressive at all. In fact, maybe that jutsu came from orochimaru. And sasuke needs to shoot some of his fire dragons into the atmosphere to create a thunder clouds. He can't create a thunder clouds/storm clouds by directly using a hand sign. His preparation is the same as base naruto who needs his clone for his rasengan. If sasuke knows like what kakashi and neji did,( evn though it's happen only in the anime/movie) that they created a thunder clouds/storm by using a hand sign then sasuke kirin would be somehow that impressive.

    If darui's black lightning isn't a natural element and can't be compared to any lightning jutsu, then why the hell some ofnsasuke's fans compare his amaterasu to any fire jutsu? The amaterasu is also not a natural element so it can't be considered as a fire element, right?

  6. #20
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    Sasuke's ingenuity to create Kirin is second to non in the entire manga. That much was made obvious by Zetsu's statements and the fact it destroyed an entire mountain and nearly killed a Sussano baring Itachi. If what Sasuke did was so easy to do someone else would have done it.

    The Third and Fourth Raikage's armor is made possible due to their massive charka pools. A's armor is superior for speed, whereas The Thirds was superior for offense and defense.

    The Third's jutsu are no different than chidori and rakiri, they are only made more powerful due to the fact he has a massive chakra pool he has and his massive amount of strength. He is no more skilled and has no more control over that element than either Kakashi or Sasuke in that regard.

    As for his armor, this isn't the first time we've seen someone put them self in a armor clad out of an element. Gaara as a 12 year old did it with Sand, and Kakazu did it with his Earth with his Iron Skinned jutsu. So I fail to see how that simply makes the Third Raikage so skilled with his element. It was clear that he was a brute, who used brute force to defeat his enemies, not skill.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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  8. #21
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Sasuke's ingenuity to create Kirin is second to non in the entire manga. That much was made obvious by Zetsu's statements and the fact it destroyed an entire mountain and nearly killed a Sussano baring Itachi.

    The Third and Fourth Raikage's armor is made possible due to their massive charka pools. A's armor is superior for speed, whereas The Thirds was superior for offense and defense.

    The Third's jutsu are no different than chidori and rakiri, they are only made more powerful due to the fact he has a massive chakra pool. He is no more skilled and has no more control over that element than either Kakashi or Sasuke in that regard.

    As for his armor, this isn't the first time we've seen someone put them self in a armor clad out of an element. Gaara as a 12 year old did it with Sand, and Kakazu did it with his Earth with his Iron Skinned jutsu. So I fail to see how that simply makes the Third Raikage so skilled with his element. It was clear that he was a brute, who used brute force to defeat his enemies, not skill.
    I don't question his ingenuity, that just isn't what is being addressed. There isn't anything particularly exceptional about Kirin as a lightning element technique. It uses power built up by another technique in a straight out concentrated attack. That's it. It's power isn't from the user, but from nature. It's little different from Suiton techs water or Doton users using the earth. And I'd like to point out that Kirin was more powered by Itachi's Amaterasu than Sasuke's own efforts. His ability to pull off the technique, and its setup, was impressive. The technique itself is much less so.

    And the Lightning Armour Release is very different from Chidori. It is so far beyond it. It vastly increases the user's speed, attack, and defence. The Third's control likely exceeds that of either Kakashi or Sasuke. And your argument about chakra pools is irrelevant, particularly considering that to setup Kirin requires massive fire element techniques that carry some heavy chakra requirements just to start it up, and that to power the Kirin Sasuke showed required those techs alongside some heavy Amaterasu usage, kind of demanding. Gaara's sand armour and Kakuzu's Iron Skin are very different from Raikage's armour, in both power and versatility. They are incomparable. And simply using brute force doesn't show a lack of skill. Tsunade is evidence of this. Her power comes from her precise chakra control. That brute force, as you put it, is the result of a high-level lightning element technique that has yet to meet its match.

  9. #22
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    I don't question his ingenuity, that just isn't what is being addressed. There isn't anything particularly exceptional about Kirin as a lightning element technique. It uses power built up by another technique in a straight out concentrated attack. That's it. It's power isn't from the user, but from nature. It's little different from Suiton techs water or Doton users using the earth. And I'd like to point out that Kirin was more powered by Itachi's Amaterasu than Sasuke's own efforts. His ability to pull off the technique, and its setup, was impressive. The technique itself is much less so.
    It's extremely different because once you grab earth and water they aren't moving anymore. The ferocity of water and earth can never be compared to that of lighting. A normal human can easily manipulate earth and water, the same can't be said for lighting. It's not like shinobi have never fought in lightning storms before. Zetsu, who has all of Madara's knowledge had never ever seen someone do this before. That goes to show how impressive it is what Sasuke did.

    The technique itself required Sasuke to channel all of the energy from the storm clouds above him. That is impressive because he channeled what could have been dozens of lightning strikes into a singular one. That is extremely impressive and shows his control over the element, as he controlled the most lightning anyone ever has up until that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    And the Lightning Armour Release is very different from Chidori. It is so far beyond it. It vastly increases the user's speed, attack, and defence. The Third's control likely exceeds that of either Kakashi or Sasuke. And your argument about chakra pools is irrelevant, particularly considering that to setup Kirin requires massive fire element techniques that carry some heavy chakra requirements just to start it up, and that to power the Kirin Sasuke showed required those techs alongside some heavy Amaterasu usage, kind of demanding. Gaara's sand armour and Kakuzu's Iron Skin are very different from Raikage's armour, in both power and versatility. They are incomparable. And simply using brute force doesn't show a lack of skill. Tsunade is evidence of this. Her power comes from her precise chakra control. That brute force, as you put it, is the result of a high-level lightning element technique that has yet to meet its match.
    The Finger attacks that the Third Raikage use are exactly like Chidori, they were even compared in the manga. The reason the Raikage's is more powerful is because he's a massive human being who is much much stronger than Sasuke and Kakashi.

    They are also comparable to the Gaara and Kakazu's techniques because they coat the person in an element and give them defense. Kakazu Iron Skin jutsu augmented his strength considerably. Gaara's was less impressive but still comparable.

    The Armors themselves are very different, but yes they certainly are comparable. Is the Third and A's superior? Absolutly, but the fact is this idea of a elemental armor that acts as more than armor isn't something new.

    The Third's increased his defense to insane levels, while also giving him a unique attack. The Raikage's gave him defense, but didn't augment his attacks in anyway aside from making him faster when he charged up. Gratned, his attacks are wrestling moves so it makes sense why it didn't augment them.

    But whats more interesting about comparing Sasuke to A and The Third Raikage is that Sasuke has more than one than Kirin. He has Chidori and all it's variants which account for an AOE attack, a mid range attack, and a defensive/offensive technique in Chidori Nagashi. His Chidori Spear, is also a new type of chakra manipulation that not even Orochimaru had seen.

    Sasuke has variety, he has power, he has defense. He's consistently shown he one of the best elemental users in the manga in general, and given that Lightning is his affinity and thanks to all of his feats I think it's clear that he's shown a superior control over the element than anyone else.

    You also note things like precise chakra control. That was never stated to be needed for the Raiton Armors unless I missed something. And Sasuke has amazing chakra control, to the point where he can channel electricity through his body just like A and The Third. He simply has less chakra so he can't create armor.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  10. #23
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member scandalous''s Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    Katon: Amaterasu is a fire, but it's not katon. It's Enton, so it's disqualified. My choice is obito, he's the only one to use katon for Offense and defense.

    Sution: Kisame. He's shown the best so far.

    Ration: Sasuke. Kirin is nature itself, and he more versatile then all other ration users save kakashi.

    Earth: oonoki. He's has some very impressive earth jutsu. The guy can make himself fly using earth style.

    Wind. Danzou. He's has shown the most impressive jutsu for this element.
    What you're saying doesn't make any sense. "It's fire but it's not fire... You do realize katon means fire right. Besides that, it IS a fire technique, the highest/strongest form there is. Enton is just a shape manipulation jutsu used by sasuke to give shape and form to amaterasu and manipulate it in any way he likes.

  11. #24
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    Fire: Madara

    Water: Kisame

    Lightning: Kakashi

    Earth: Kitsuchi or Jiraiya

    Wind: Danzou or Gaara's mentor

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  13. #25
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    It's extremely different because once you grab earth and water they aren't moving anymore. The ferocity of water and earth can never be compared to that of lighting. A normal human can easily manipulate earth and water, the same can't be said for lighting. It's not like shinobi have never fought in lightning storms before. Zetsu, who has all of Madara's knowledge had never ever seen someone do this before. That goes to show how impressive it is what Sasuke did.

    The technique itself required Sasuke to channel all of the energy from the storm clouds above him. That is impressive because he channeled what could have been dozens of lightning strikes into a singular one. That is extremely impressive and shows his control over the element, as he controlled the most lightning anyone ever has up until that point.
    Zetsu isn't an authority on jutsu, and one of the two, if I remember correctly, was able to explain Sasuke's attack even before he utilised it; it couldn't have been that ridiculous if it was so easy to predict. He controlled more lightning because he's the only one to have been in a situation with thunderclouds above during a battle.

    Quote Quote:
    The Finger attacks that the Third Raikage use are exactly like Chidori, they were even compared in the manga. The reason the Raikage's is more powerful is because he's a massive human being who is much much stronger than Sasuke and Kakashi.
    You compared his lightning armour to Chidori, it wasn't the matter of the Hell Stab. Although I should point out that the comparison between Chidori and the Third's technique was in relation to the manner in which it pierced. And the Third's stabs are indicative of a high level of control over the lightning element; he is able to concentrate his lightning element far more than Sasuke is capable of.

    Quote Quote:
    They are also comparable to the Gaara and Kakazu's techniques because they coat the person in an element and give them defense. Kakazu Iron Skin jutsu augmented his strength considerably. Gaara's was less impressive but still comparable.

    The Armors themselves are very different, but yes they certainly are comparable. Is the Third and A's superior? Absolutly, but the fact is this idea of a elemental armor that acts as more than armor isn't something new.

    The Third's increased his defense to insane levels, while also giving him a unique attack. The Raikage's gave him defense, but didn't augment his attacks in anyway aside from making him faster when he charged up. Gratned, his attacks are wrestling moves so it makes sense why it didn't augment them.
    Gaara's sand isn't one of the natural elements and it isn't comparable because it is just Gaara wrapping his body in sand. As for Kakuzu, the results of his technique speak for themselves when compared to the lightning release armour. The lightning release armour increases the user's stats across the board massively. Although I should point out that Kakuzu's technique was extremely impressive, if Kakashi wasn't utilising a high level technique that was the counter to the element of his technique he likely would've gone through that battle without a scratch.

    Quote Quote:
    But whats more interesting about comparing Sasuke to A and The Third Raikage is that Sasuke has more than one than Kirin. He has Chidori and all it's variants which account for an AOE attack, a mid range attack, and a defensive/offensive technique in Chidori Nagashi. His Chidori Spear, is also a new type of chakra manipulation that not even Orochimaru had seen.

    Sasuke has variety, he has power, he has defense. He's consistently shown he one of the best elemental users in the manga in general, and given that Lightning is his affinity and thanks to all of his feats I think it's clear that he's shown a superior control over the element than anyone else.
    I'm assuming you meant to say he has more than just Kirin, not more than one Kirin. His three chidori variants are impressive, but they don't match up to what the lightning release armour offers. And the Third also has his black lightning, so there's that.

    Quote Quote:
    You also note things like precise chakra control. That was never stated to be needed for the Raiton Armors unless I missed something. And Sasuke has amazing chakra control, to the point where he can channel electricity through his body just like A and The Third. He simply has less chakra so he can't create armor.
    My mention of precise chakra control was in reference to Tsunade. You referred to the Third as someone who simply uses brute force without skill, and I was merely pointing out, through Tsunade, that brute force could be achieved through high levels of skill as is the case for the Raikages. The Third's Hell Stab should be more than enough to show his precise control over the lightning element. Sasuke hasn't shown that he is capable of channelling lightning chakra throughout his body like the Raikages; Chidori Nagashi is a simple discharge of electricity from Sasuke's body.

  14. #26
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Prince Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    Quote Originally Posted by scandalous' View Post
    What you're saying doesn't make any sense. "It's fire but it's not fire... You do realize katon means fire right. Besides that, it IS a fire technique, the highest/strongest form there is. Enton is just a shape manipulation jutsu used by sasuke to give shape and form to amaterasu and manipulate it in any way he likes.
    No it isn't. Enton is a more advance fire element than katon. Amaterasu is a enton element not katon.

  15. #27
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    I don't think either Raikage have shown the kind of Raiton mastery required to be considered the best at Ration mastery that people are giving them. Raiton Armor alone is versatile in the sense that it increases one's defense, movement speed, reaction time, and piercing power. But it's one technique, and that's it. Sasuke's Raiton mastery extends beyond just one jutsu.

    Chidori (close range, assassination technique)
    Chidori Nagashi (AoE, paralyzing)
    Chidorigatana/chakra flow (enhanced close range and mid to long range weaponry)
    Chidori Eisou (mid/long range)
    Chidori Senbon (mid/long range)
    Kirin (long range)

    He's got every range covered, has multiple uses for his Raiton, and is powerful in his own right. The kicker here is Kirin. If you're only focusing on the power of the attack it may not seem too impressive, but the catch is that not only is it barely of any cost, but it hits faster than any attack we've seen in the manga. And I don't see how the damage is unimpressive when it's damage potential is limitless based on how much heat can be produced by the user. No damage limit, no chakra cost, and has produced the most devastating effect a Raiton has displayed in the whole manga. Raiton Armor howerver, as seen thus far is limited to the user's chakra reserve. And the black lightning element doesn't necessarily have to be more powerful than Kirin. Especially since nothing has implied otherwise.

    Now, with the amount of heat Sasuke can produce with his Enton jewel there's no reason to believe he couldn't make a Kirin far more powerful than the one used against Itachi. And that one not only one-shotted a Susanoo, but the hill it stood on top of.

    I guess it's just a matter of opinion, but neither Raikage has done enough to warrant my vote as "best Raiton user". It's gonna take more feats than what we've seen from them.
    Last edited by ninjabot; May 20, 2013 at 07:30 PM.

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  17. #28
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    Am I the only one who thinks Kakashi showed a better mastery over raiton than Sasuke or anyone else?

    And Naruto the best in fuuton because of FRS? He's actually one of the worst because all he has are FRS and fuuton: rasengan.

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  19. #29
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    kisame is by far the greatest water-style user

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  21. #30
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member flow like's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the best in each element?

    lighting belong to kakashi or darui... wind belong to danzo or baku
    Last edited by flow like; May 21, 2013 at 12:37 AM.

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