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Thread: Madara thread

  1. #1186
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    It is doubtful, but it's the least doubtful of all the options. The second reason for Shisui to give up his eye was the danger of Danzou or anyone else coming to get the other one.
    Sasuke did Amaterasu without Itachi's eye. If his own eye can do amaterasu, then his own eye can do amaterasu. From A, you can conclude A. From that point, there shouldn't be any reason why he wouldn't be able to do it again, especially after gaining his own MS.

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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    It is doubtful, but it's the least doubtful of all the options. The second reason for Shisui to give up his eye was the danger of Danzou or anyone else coming to get the other one.
    Sasuke did Amaterasu without Itachi's eye. If his own eye can do amaterasu, then his own eye can do amaterasu. From A, you can conclude A. From that point, there shouldn't be any reason why he wouldn't be able to do it again, especially after gaining his own MS.
    It's the most doubtful one in my opinion. Even if that threat existed, it doesn't change the fact that Shisui could've simply given Itachi Kotoamatsukami, thereby making him more powerful. Better yet, why don't all MS Users boost each other by sharing their abilities? It is far more plausible that Sasuke and Itachi both happened to inherit Amaterasu. They are siblings, after all. Their genetic make-up should be similar. Beyond the first two sentences, I did not understand your post.

  3. #1188
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    @Azuma

    Its not opinion. Its just abotu fact:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/397/11

    Itachi transfered ALL his eye techs into Sasuke. Again fact not opinion.

    Then ask yourself why Sasuke can't do Itachi's genjutsu even if it was transfered to him... Going by this it would apear you need precise condition to use them even they are transfered to you.
    Then ask yourself why Shusui did not just do the trap trick Itachi did with Amaterasu just leave the condition for its use for Itachi to choose... You don't even need a MS eye for it...

    You can implant eye power:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/397/8

    So why not implant Shisui's genjutsu and trade his eye? Makes no sense right?

  4. #1189
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    Well I didn't say that this is a general Sharingan ability that anyone can do. After all this is Itachi. In fact the ability to implant one's jutsu in someone else seems less complicated, at least to me, than to transplant a jutsu for one time use upon seeing one very specific eye (Obito's eye that is).

    Beyond the 2nd sentence I simply applied the most basic law of logic (not meant derogatorily). If A, then A. From the fact that Sasuke's eye could spawn Amaterasu once, it leads to the general conclusion that "Sasuke's eye can do Amaterasu", because it did. It seems like a tautology, but it entails a much greater point. If Sasuke's eye can do it, then the fact that it can, means that he can keep doing it as long as he remembers the sensation of doing it or the chakra control involved.

  5. #1190
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Azuma

    Its not opinion. Its just abotu fact:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/397/11

    Itachi transfered ALL his eye techs into Sasuke. Again fact not opinion.

    Then ask yourself why Sasuke can't do Itachi's genjutsu even if it was transfered to him... Going by this it would apear you need precise condition to use them even they are transfered to you.
    Then ask yourself why Shusui did not just do the trap trick Itachi did with Amaterasu just leave the condition for its use for Itachi to choose... You don't even need a MS eye for it...

    You can implant eye power:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/397/8

    So why not implant Shisui's genjutsu and trade his eye? Makes no sense right?
    It's fact.. assuming that the translation is spot-on. But still, I find it extremtely improbable and illogical that eye techniques can be transferred without the one who transferred his techniques losing his own MS. At least that way, I would find it plausible. However, the fact that Sasuke took Itachi's eyes and thereby gained EMS implies that Itachi still had his MS when he died. If Uchiha can transfer eye techniques and still retain their own MS, then Obito should've given the S/T Jutsu to Sasuke in return of Amaterasu. Better yet, Madara should've simply given Obito his EMS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    Well I didn't say that this is a general Sharingan ability that anyone can do. After all this is Itachi. In fact the ability to implant one's jutsu in someone else seems less complicated, at least to me, than to transplant a jutsu for one time use upon seeing one very specific eye (Obito's eye that is).

    Beyond the 2nd sentence I simply applied the most basic law of logic (not meant derogatorily). If A, then A. From the fact that Sasuke's eye could spawn Amaterasu once, it leads to the general conclusion that "Sasuke's eye can do Amaterasu", because it did. It seems like a tautology, but it entails a much greater point. If Sasuke's eye can do it, then the fact that it can, means that he can keep doing it as long as he remembers the sensation of doing it or the chakra control involved.
    Ah, that's what you meant. I don't think it's that simple though. I've always assumed that Itachi implanted 'one' Amaterasu in Sasuke and that that was it. The way I see it, each MS ability is a Kekkai Genkkai in itself. Either it's part of your MS arsenal, or it isn't. Sasuke shouldn't be able to simply 'remember' the sensation and carry it out. I find that extremely strange.

    Where are then Sasuke's own MS techniques? How come he can only use Amaterasu and Susano'o?

  6. #1191
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    Itachi didn't give Sasuke Amaterasu, he just sealed an Amaterasu in his eye for a one time use. This is evidenced by the fact that Sasuke didn't even have an MS when it was used, and when it was used, his eye had to transform into Itachi's MS long enough for the jutsu to activate.

    Once Sasuke's own MS manifested he had to develop each jutsu on his own through time, and this is where his MS jutsu came from. Not Itachi. This is again evidenced by the fact that his eyes take a different form, aswell as the fact that he wasn't given Itachi's ethereal weapons that are used by his Susanoo. People only want to take the manga word-for-word whenever it suits their argument, lol.

    It's far more likely that doujutsu abilities one can achieve are based on either the power of one's eyes, or that they are hereditary. Remember, Sasuke, Itachi, and Madara are all Sharingan prodigies. That's the thing they have in common. And the thing Sasuke and Itachi have in common is that they share the same blood.
    Last edited by ninjabot; May 22, 2013 at 07:10 PM.

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  8. #1192
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/397/11

    Tobi: Somehow at the last second, he transferred ALL his eye techniques into you.

    ninjabot: No he did not. Because i say so.

    Me: WTF?

    For the love of me i will never understand how people can discard CLEAR manga evidence..
    Even the translation on this site and states the same damn thing:
    http://mangahelpers.com/t/hisshouburaiken/releases/1117

    Tobi: Somehow, at the last second, he transferred all his eye techniques into you.

    Clear manga evidence. It does not matter how much sense it makes. Itachi sealed the trap in his eye but also transfered his eye techs into him.

  9. #1193
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member naruto the best's Avatar
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/397/11

    Tobi: Somehow at the last second, he transferred ALL his eye techniques into you.

    ninjabot: No he did not. Because i say so.

    Me: WTF?

    For the love of me i will never understand how people can discard CLEAR manga evidence..
    Even the translation on this site and states the same damn thing:
    http://mangahelpers.com/t/hisshouburaiken/releases/1117

    Tobi: Somehow, at the last second, he transferred all his eye techniques into you.

    Clear manga evidence. It does not matter how much sense it makes. Itachi sealed the trap in his eye but also transfered his eye techs into him.
    I'm just wondering why Sasuke couldn't use Tsukuyomi if Itachi really planted all his eye techs to Sasuke?

  10. #1194
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    @naruto the best

    Well i asume because he was not good enough. He could do MS genjutsu but it was nothing close to what Itachi could do. If the greatest marksman in the world would give me a gun right now and tell me to replicate his skills would i be able to do that just because i would get the same weapon?

  11. #1195
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member naruto the best's Avatar
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @naruto the best

    Well i asume because he was not good enough. He could do MS genjutsu but it was nothing close to what Itachi could do. If the greatest marksman in the world would give me a gun right now and tell me to replicate his skills would i be able to do that just because i would get the same weapon?
    He wasn't good enough to do Susanoo? and even enhanced Amaterasu at a higher level?

    Susanoo - check
    Amaterasu - check
    Tsukuyomi - this leaves the question...

  12. #1196
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    Quote Originally Posted by naruto the best View Post
    He wasn't good enough to do Susanoo? and even enhanced Amaterasu at a higher level?

    Susanoo - check
    Amaterasu - check
    Tsukuyomi - this leaves the question...
    Amaterasu is not a genjutsu and same goes for Susano. Sasuke was always more the jutsu guy and Itachi more the genjutsu guy.

    1 can be good at swiming but not good at shooting a gun. Don't compare shooting a gun with swiming.

  13. #1197
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member naruto the best's Avatar
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Amaterasu is not a genjutsu and same goes for Susano. Sasuke was always more the jutsu guy and Itachi more the genjutsu guy.

    1 can be good at swiming but not good at shooting a gun. Don't compare shooting a gun with swiming.
    Shooting a gun vs swimming are obviously two different things. They can't be compared, while we can actually compare Itachi's techs and Sasuke's.

    That's why you said "Sasuke was always more the jutsu guy and Itachi more the genjutsu guy", which actually makes sense because of that nature of comparison. We can compare Sasuke's susanoo vs Itachi's susanoo, Sasuke'a amaterasu vs Itachi's amaterasu, and Sasuke's genjutsu vs Itachi's genjutsu -- really different from the shooting a gun vs swimming analogy.

    Nevertheless, I find your statement (the one I quoted) suits the better explanation why their utilization of techniques somehow vary.

  14. #1198
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    @naruto the best

    Use Naruto. He is damn good at jutsus but complete shit at genjutsu. Even asuming Itachi would spend 100 years with him i seriously don't see him ending up as good as Itachi in genjutsu.
    You need a born talent to be good at genjutsu. Same with JMan. He was just SHIT at genjutsu even if he was a BEAST at jutsus. How about Naruto? Insane powerfull jutsus but 0 genjutsu.

    You have a big leap from jutsus to genjutsu. Sasuke powering his Susano is just something that happends with his rage. Improving genjutsu would require natural born talent and skill.

  15. #1199
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @naruto the best

    Use Naruto. He is damn good at jutsus but complete shit at genjutsu. Even asuming Itachi would spend 100 years with him i seriously don't see him ending up as good as Itachi in genjutsu.
    You need a born talent to be good at genjutsu. Same with JMan. He was just SHIT at genjutsu even if he was a BEAST at jutsus. How about Naruto? Insane powerfull jutsus but 0 genjutsu.

    You have a big leap from jutsus to genjutsu. Sasuke powering his Susano is just something that happends with his rage. Improving genjutsu would require natural born talent and skill.
    well of course Naruto is different and I never thought of him to be used as a measure for Itachi and Sasuke comparison. His case is far different because Sasuke is already good at genjutsu (although not as Itachi) before his fight with Itachi . So with another set of powers from Itachi then his genjutsu skill is supposed to be highly enhanced.

    Or no matter what Sasuke couldn't just level with Itachi in the genjutsu department. But at least he could just have used even a simpler version of Tsukuyomi to fully justify 'the transfer of eye jutsus to Sasuke' because one finger and Tobi's statements (this guy lied many times to deceive people. he even lied to Sasuke that he'll give him a tailed beast as a reward in hunting 8 tails and joining with Akatsuki) aren't that justifiable.

  16. #1200
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Madara and Amaterasu

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/397/11

    Tobi: Somehow at the last second, he transferred ALL his eye techniques into you.

    ninjabot: No he did not. Because i say so.

    Me: WTF?
    Different translations say different things. Not to mention if Sasuke had access to Itachi's techniques he wouldn't have needed to unlock them. Itachi also said he gave Naruto some of his power, but it turned out he did no such thing: he sealed one of Shisui's eyes into a crow, and sealed the crow inside of Naruto.

    Quote Quote:
    For the love of me i will never understand how people can discard CLEAR manga evidence..
    Clear manga evidence would be Tobi seeing Sasuke using all of Itachi's techniques and saying "Oh, he just sealed all his techniques into Sasuke." On the contrary, what happened was he almost got killed by an Amaterasu booby trap, and deduced that Sasuke had all of Itachi's techniques. Inotherwords, he's wrong.

    Quote Quote:
    Even the translation on this site and states the same damn thing:
    http://mangahelpers.com/t/hisshouburaiken/releases/1117

    Tobi: Somehow, at the last second, he transferred all his eye techniques into you.

    Clear manga evidence. It does not matter how much sense it makes. Itachi sealed the trap in
    And that's all he did: sealed a trap. Good luck proving otherwise, since Tobi can't prove otherwise, lmao.

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