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Thread: Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

  1. #16
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member teioh's Avatar
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    Re: Titans origin and purpose.

    In today's anime episode Eren's dad clearly say he injected in Eren's body a substance to permit him to transform into a titan in the future to protect Mikasa and Armin and to reach the basement. He added that that injection would clean his memory about the fact for some time and than he would remember about it in the future.

    All this stuff appears in the manga too? Cuz explain a lot of things if ALL human shifters had simply injected their powers.

  2. #17
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Titans origin and purpose.

    Quote Originally Posted by teioh View Post
    In today's anime episode Eren's dad clearly say he injected in Eren's body a substance to permit him to transform into a titan in the future to protect Mikasa and Armin and to reach the basement. He added that that injection would clean his memory about the fact for some time and than he would remember about it in the future.

    All this stuff appears in the manga too? Cuz explain a lot of things if ALL human shifters had simply injected their powers.
    Yes. It is in the manga.
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic172142_25.gif

  3. #18
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member nyamonyamo's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    This has been mention in a lot of forum discussing the possibilities in the SnK world. I'll just briefly mention some here.


    Quote:
    In the latest chapter when Ymir was cut of from saying who is the real enemy in the raw she said "sei-".
    In jap it could be Seifu > government or Seiheki Kyokai > church of holy walls.

    Previously when Pixis was talking with Eren on the wall he told Eren before titans wreak havoc humans have been fighting among themselves so one day someone said what happens if humans share a common enemy? They will cast aside all differences and work together.

    So my guess is this:
    A certain organisation delve deep into researching how to make humans into titans and develop a serum (think zombie style). They unleash it into society (probably vaccine or water system) and create chaos. Then they sort off like in the movie 2012 invite the worlds richest most influential people to board ships that carries them to a continent with walls already prepared by the same organisation that introduced titans. The ones contribute most get to live in the inner district. They do this to control or save humanity or whatever grand delusions they have (think new world order).

    The wall government forbids, destroy all kinds of information about the outside world to make sure humanity remains ignorant and cast fears about them. ignorant and scared society are easy to control. So this is my guess on the history behind the creation of the wall and its government and people.

    Now i'll state my guess on the outside.
    Of course not all humans were destroyed in the initial attack of the titans. There are probably places that the titans couldn't reach (snow mountain, island, tall tress etc). And probably they knew about that certain organisation's objective so they probably have counter measures that made them able to survive outside the wall. They are what we would call rebels. This is what Reiner, Annie, berthold belongs to. They were send to infiltrate and mess up the wall. They probably only attack now cause recently they made a breakthrough in their own titan research.

    My guess are based on the fact given inside each SnK graphic novels. You can check it out
    http://calorescence.tumblr.com/post/...f-the-japanese

    Though i realise there are a few holes or questions about this theory
    Why didn't Annie grab the king since she was already deep inside the inner district. Unless the palace guards are titans themselves.
    The monkey titan. What is he. It looked like even berthold the biggest titan is afraid of it. One of the originals perhaps? a mutant?
    Why didn't the rebels made contact with the scouts who always venture outside the walls. Unless they think those scouts are actually looking for the rebel base to attack.
    This is my guess.

  4. #19
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Utsune's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    Yeah I think Grisha is in a shady business. I'm thinking he's related more to the government at first, but later defects due to the loss of his wife, Karla. Now he's running away from committing anymore dodgy things.

    The thing with him looking for the last of the Oriental race, Mikasa and her mom, could be that--- he's looking for potential Shifters!!

    The Oriental race apparently has some sort of berserk-ish strength?

    Mikasa's headache, could it be something to do with Grisha's "medical attention?" Because Mikasa met him twice, once as a kid, the other during that incident. Meaning he could have done something to her the first time round.

    If that's so, I have a feeling Grisha knows Annie's father.

    Note that all the Titan shifters we know at the moment are all around Eren's age (I think Ymir is too, right?)

  5. #20
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    Well, it is almost certain that in some form human titans are involved with the deeper levels of government. Titans are not quite something which humans can force to do something and yet a number of titans were used all through the 3 walls to build them. Someone else posted a translations of the random text in the SnK which explained how the wall situation came about. However it is rather weird, it does not seem like humans had that much technology back in the day and the notion that they built 3 immense walls on their own while they were being eaten is absurd. So for whatever reason the humans got a bunch of titans to build the walls in a remote region where there were no normal titans yet. Everything does indeed suggests its the central government which is somehow involved and in control of this. The government being behind everything would explain why the church got authority over the wall. Now, the motives behind everything are still a mystery though. Government, nobility and royalty being that central to the plot would explain why historia is that important too. Well, it does not explain it as we still have no clue of what her relevance is however it does give us some context under which current developments start making a shred of sense.

    As for the titan attacks on the wall I am honestly beginning to think they were the result of reyner and berholt going crazy. Reyner going crazy is obvious by now, his grip on reality is shaky at best. Berholt seems to have a better clue on what is going on but it does seem like the idea of them not wanting to destroy humanity anymore is consistent. Anyways, the last chapter does give us some important perspective. Reyner and berholt are not capable of controlling other titans and even with all their power they risk being defeated by them when in large enough numbers.

    Now, if titans are ultimately that dangerous even for the freaking colossal and armored titan then why in the world would they aim to destroy the wall? They would in fact need the wall just about as much as every other human. In particular berholt, he is slow. Reyner can probably keep himself safe just as annie by running a ton however he must still eventually stop and rest. Right now they are in danger even though they are still within the broken wall, I would think that the concentration of giants outside it would be even larger.

    Anyways, the only thing that makes sense right now is that their hometown is somewhere they can return to where they can be safe and there are people they give a crap about. The more I think about it the more I get the impression that people within the walls are just an experiment to make more titans.

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  7. #21
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Utsune's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Anyways, the only thing that makes sense right now is that their hometown is somewhere they can return to where they can be safe and there are people they give a crap about. The more I think about it the more I get the impression that people within the walls are just an experiment to make more titans.
    I generally agree with the rest of your post, but I have a bit of an issue whenever R&B mentions "their hometown," because it feels as if it's not really a home, nor is it some sort of settlement (i.e. a town or village etc,) but merely a hideout or whatever. Just pure speculations here.



    Also, sorry for being nitpicky on the 'technology' point, but I wonder if humans back in the days were much stronger than their current state (or at least, the humans within the walls.)
    http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/4/24
    Humans were apparently "powerful enough" "back in the days" for that to get specifically mentioned. Of course, this isn't necessarily a sign of more advanced technology in the past, and that there were simply more of them to get things done, especially overwhelming manpower in the production of equipment. Nonetheless, we could also consider a regression in technology due to the Titan crisis. Well in any case, this doesn't really concern the wall-building anyway if they were built with Titans in the first place.

  8. #22
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    I always got the impression that is somewhat of a translation issue. They were speaking of titan's regenerative abilities so I think he meant to say that back in the day they had the firepower to hurt them but could not stop the regeneration. Looking at the image shown it seems like he was speaking about cannons, the same ones they have today. It is weird that significant improvements haven't been made on technology for 100 years though.

    As for the hometown, for me the issue with it being a hideout is the fact that reyner seems to want to go back there so badly. Berholt has not mentioned it much however reyner was desperate to the point where it was that desperation which basically made him crack and talk to eren recently about them being titans. I get the impression that at least reyner thinks of the place as a home to return too. If it was just a hideout it wouldn't make sense for them to destroy the wall, they would be destroying humanity and have no place to return to. On the other hand destroying the wall while having a place to return to makes perfect sense overall.

  9. #23
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Utsune's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I always got the impression that is somewhat of a translation issue. They were speaking of titan's regenerative abilities so I think he meant to say that back in the day they had the firepower to hurt them but could not stop the regeneration. Looking at the image shown it seems like he was speaking about cannons, the same ones they have today. It is weird that significant improvements haven't been made on technology for 100 years though.

    As for the hometown, for me the issue with it being a hideout is the fact that reyner seems to want to go back there so badly. Berholt has not mentioned it much however reyner was desperate to the point where it was that desperation which basically made him crack and talk to eren recently about them being titans. I get the impression that at least reyner thinks of the place as a home to return too. If it was just a hideout it wouldn't make sense for them to destroy the wall, they would be destroying humanity and have no place to return to. On the other hand destroying the wall while having a place to return to makes perfect sense overall.
    Hmm yeah fair point. There is one thing I don't get though. Reiner states that there's no need to continue with the mission or something, and bargained with Eren that if he left with them, they would be leaving too and it would be a good deal for Eren. What exactly is the "good deal?" Is that simply R&B won't be attacking the humans anymore? But naturally, since R&B knows Eren wants to protect the humans from Titan, by "good deal" does it mean the whole "Titan crisis" end here for now? Or is Reiner just sleep-talking? Do you see where I'm getting at, or is my question too confusing? Wait I think I'm confusing myself, too.



    Oh and thanks for raising the translation issue, never thought about that myself, so I tried to look up the original text. Although I don't have access to the raws, several sources have the same phrase quoted. It seems that the phrase is meant to be "Ever since the past" rather than simply "Back in the days."

    "Ever since" implies they've had the technology all along, so you are definitely right on this.

    I think the whole community has been driven to advance specific technology, eg. the 3D gear. Also, resources (most importantly food) and manpower are on the low, so certain improvements (especially those requiring more manpower to mass produce) are not possible, even if they had the brains.

  10. #24
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    No clue on the good deal lol. Who knows on why meeting the guys for whom R&B work would be a good deal for eren. I do get the impression they were hoping for eren to change sides though. It doesn't make sense for them to want eren otherwise because at the moment he is in fact their enemy. Worst, eren is potentially they only enemy they have reason to fear at large.

    Well, for me developing the 3d gear is what makes no sense at all, specially if their most scarce resource is manpower. I mean, they lack humans and develop a method for killing titans which according to the manga takes 30 human lives on average? It would have made more sense for them to focus for the past 100 years on mobile ranged weapons which specifically damage the nape.... Instead they developed a steam punk version of spiderman which sends food remarkably close to the mouths of the predators in question. I guess they simply do not have the technology to make better cannons and weapons, they would have seen to be in the middle. Mass production is not an issue for that matter. Didn't we have a chapter which specifically said they fired the cannons non stop for days?

    I also doubt the humans were ever remotely close to us in technology terms. Can you imagine how titans would fare against current technology? Titans are huge, at most run at horse speed and have a rather large weak point precisely in their blindspot. While they could cause trouble, I doubt they would present a threat to us as a specie.

  11. #25
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member ImmortalZodd's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Utsune View Post
    Reiner states that there's no need to continue with the mission or something, and bargained with Eren that if he left with them, they would be leaving too and it would be a good deal for Eren. What exactly is the "good deal?"
    I'm guessing Reiner was just trying to convince Eren to leave with them.

    Or, he was trying to imply to Eren that he's being blackmailed to leave.
    http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/42/14
    "You get my drift, right?" Is the line that catches my attention.

    But still, the question "what is RBA's objective?" is the one that could give us the most answers.

    No matter what theory I make, it just doesn't make sense the fact that they are destroying the walls with intention of wiping out humans within. In every page of chapter 46 I was just waiting for Eren to ask them WHY. Why did they do it? Knowing that answer would solve so much, don't you think?

    Reiner and Bertholdt also often said that they are warriors, opposed to soldiers that they play to be.
    Wiki said that:
    "A warrior is a person skilled in combat or warfare, especially within the context of a tribal or clan-based society that recognizes a separate warrior class."
    Clans were already often mentioned in the manga as well.

    Then, seeing how Reiner mentiones warrior's duty,
    http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/42/26
    I searched google a bit, and found a warrior's code that stated that:

    "A warrior is not a murderer because a warrior has a code that he lives by which is influenced by morals which must be justified."
    Could that mean that they somehow still believe killing all those people was justified?

  12. #26
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    Actually there is something which does not make sense at all, in particular with a point I made earlier.
    http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/42/25
    In here reyner said he didn't know about someone's existence. Who didn't he know about? Was his mission to destroy humanity a whim or an order?

    Anyways, if he is talking about the true enemy then it would appear he carried out his little genocide with no orders from others. Isn't that weird? That would be in complete contrast with the notion that he carried out the destruction under the assumption that he had somewhere to return too.

    Thinking about it, what if annie, reyner and berholt have something in common with eren? We saw earlier that annie's dad knew something about the titan power... as was the case with eren's dad. Perhaps titanism is somehow related to all of their parents? Perhaps the difference between eren and the others is that his dad did not live to tell him about the titan powers. Perhaps if eren had seen the basement he would have turned out like the other titans.

  13. #27
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member nyamonyamo's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalZodd View Post
    No matter what theory I make, it just doesn't make sense the fact that they are destroying the walls with intention of wiping out humans within. In every page of chapter 46 I was just waiting for Eren to ask them WHY. Why did they do it? Knowing that answer would solve so much, don't you think?
    I've been waiting for that too. But Eren is just too stupid and act like some add kid. I wish it was Armin who they caught. The only thing on Eren's mind is mad mad mad revenge with huge moral ego.

  14. #28
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member ImmortalZodd's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Actually there is something which does not make sense at all, in particular with a point I made earlier.
    http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/42/25
    In here reyner said he didn't know about someone's existence. Who didn't he know about? Was his mission to destroy humanity a whim or an order?
    Well, a page earlier he said: "I've spent three years of my life, surrounded by fools...".
    And then, on the page you linked: "If only I'd never learned about those fools existence..".
    Is he reffering to the same fools, ie. humans within the wall?

  15. #29
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalZodd View Post
    Well, a page earlier he said: "I've spent three years of my life, surrounded by fools...".
    And then, on the page you linked: "If only I'd never learned about those fools existence..".
    Is he reffering to the same fools, ie. humans within the wall?
    I would think he is talking about different fools, in context it makes more sense that way. I would think he was speaking of the 3 years he spent training to become a soldier at large. In turn with the other fools it seems he learned of someone's existence altogether. It wouldn't make sense for him to not have known of humans or the soldiers at large.

  16. #30
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Utsune's Avatar
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    Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

    I think it can go both ways, as far as this conversation is concerned.

    Sorry for bringing in original text again, but after looking at it I feel the translation we have now is kind of misleading. I'll try to be as literal as possible here:

    "It's the fault of spending 3 years here surrounded by stupid people..."
    "We, as kids... didn't know a thing"
    "If only I didn't know there are these people..."
    "I wouldn't have become such a pathetic shitty bastard..."

    Note that the two serious words, "learn" and "existence," are not necessary (although it is one possible implication, the real wording here is as vague as Isayama can be, as usual lol.)

    I would've thought if Reiner were referring to Eren and co, he'd be mainly saying: the 3 years spent with Eren and co made him feel like one of them. As kids, they only did as they were told, and if Reiner didn't know that there were such "great" people around, he wouldn't have become pathetic, stuck in between "friendship" and mission.

    (I don't really mean "great" and "friendship" as they are... but you get my drift lol)

    But IF Reiner were referring to some other people, then it would kinda go like this: the 3 years spent here surrounded by stupid people made him forget the depressingly serious mission. As kids they didn't know the reality of the world, and if Reiner didn't know about the existence of this reality, he wouldn't have been a pathetic person stuck in between killing (with a reason he's somewhat forgotten over the 3 years) and warrior's pride.



    Personally I agree with kkck, but only by a hair's width. Just from the outset, the general flow of the monologue goes slightly better if he were talking about Eren and co. But explanation-wise, it makes a bit more sense with the second option. Though when he said "As kids......about these people" I'm not too sure how to interpret it. It could mean something like, "if only he stayed clueless like a kid without having to face decisions with certain knowledge..." but again, this can go both ways.

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