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Thread: Sasuke remains an asshole

  1. #1
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Sasuke remains an asshole

    He remains a seriously self absorbed delusional idiot. And I like it. I couldn't stand the fact that he would simply be converted by an anekdote and would suddenly turn likable. He's as unlikable as he ever was.

    First of all, his love for the village isn't real. It's his love for his brother that gets channeled into substitute love for the village in place of his brother's. It's not that he actually cares about the village in the first degree sense.

    Furthermore, the arrogance of standing next to his now once again friend, I assume, and having the nerve to simply announce himself the next Hokage when he knows it has been Naruto's dream since the start (and is more deserving of it). I could understand if there was no candicate currently available that he would take the responsibility, but this isn't the case, there's Naruto.
    For not even saying sorry to everyone he should in the proper way, which is done by bowing and begging for forgiveness. For not recognizing that he doesn't have what it takes to be a true inspiring revolutionary figure. For not recognizing that for the purposes of protecting the village, you don't need the title of Hokage, he can do it from the shades. Yet he just needs to be in the spotlight and steal the title from someone more qualified in all aspects. Also, for not recognizing that his moral character has been tainted too much already to still think of himself as righteous, and worthy of such a position.
    Kakashi has matured in the right way, he does his best while never forgetting to admit that because he was once trash, that this will haunt him forever. He still sees himself as trash, rather than blame his father for being as stubborn as he was as a kid, unlike Sasuke who puts all the blame on the previous Hokage.
    Last, given his track record of constantly changing his mind, we (and the characters in the manga) would be safe to regard Sasuke's essence as an "unstable character". Yes he may be good now, they can legitimately say, but with this guy you can never be too sure. He might end up killing us tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow he might be good again.
    Also not recognizing that the entire ninja world at this point worships Naruto for protecting them all with Kyuubi cloak and being able to lift their spirits just by shouting his way of the ninja. When really, no one thinks that highly of Sasuke (not to mention Tsunade and the Konoha elders, who actually get to make the decision). Indeed how can he think he would even be accepted as Hokage by this ninja world?

    Given all this, even if he's under no manipulation by anyone, I don't see him as any less delusional than he used to be.

    Despite him gaining all of the truth, he still hasn't matured. Orochimaru is wrong.


    Oh and last let me say this. To anyone giving him a pass because it's only now that he has all the truth, he already had ALL he needed not to be an insane genocidal psychopath, after Tobi told him about Itachi. Taking out Danzou and the Konoha elders, that is fine. Normal reaction. But the fact that he chose to kill everyone including children who don't know anything, all because Itachi suffered for them, that is pathetic moral reasoning.

    ---
    Edit

    Extension of the topic. Pertaining to what Sasuke did. Minority report. Yes, Sasuke hasn't "done" anything, in the sense of actually getting things done. He hasn't killed Karin, he hasn't killed Sakura, he hasn't killed Kakashi, he hasn't killed Naruto and all of team 7 at the first reunion, and he hasn't killed Bee. What do all these not-killings have in common? The fact they didn't happen despite his true intentions. Every single time, someone or something stopped him. Oro stopped him from using Kirin, being fooled stopped him from killing Bee (or at least taking him to where he would inevitably die), Kakashi stopped him from killing Sakura, Naruto stopped him from killing Sakura on his 2nd try and planning to kill Kakashi, and Sakura's healing stopped him from killing Karin. Sure he hasn't "done" anything, but it has little to do with the fact that he would have.

    In my conception, he did do those things. If I tell a lie, yet my lie by sheer coincidence happens to be a truth without me realizing, it doesn't make me any less of a liar. I still committed the intentional act of lying. I just didn't succeed in stating a proposition that doesn't match reality. I would be even worse than a liar: an incompetent one.
    Last edited by Xrayz0r; May 23, 2013 at 12:44 PM.

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  3. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member naruto the best's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    The thing there is that it was so sudden for Sasuke to decide all these things.

    I strongly believe Sasuke is a pretty fav of Kishi in this manga so probably he just wanted the guy to run all these 'good things' quickly for him to be likable quickly.

    Sasuke's decisions are somehow irritating. It would have been better for me if Sasuke was turned good by Naruto not just like the way we had seen.
    Last edited by naruto the best; July 18, 2013 at 09:58 AM.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    I will respond to this in 24 hours, because things need to be taken with a grain of salt for now.

    What needs to be understood is that no one aside from those present during Sasuke and Hashirama's conversation knows the full history of the village, the Uchiha clan, and what Sasuke knows and has been through. Just keep that in mind, and I will elaborate later.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    he did alot of bad shit, but he really only killed danzou, who deserved it

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    he did alot of bad shit, but he really only killed danzou, who deserved it
    Onoki, A and Gaara are responsible for far worse shit and they are all Kages who have forgiven one another. There's no reason Sasuke can't be forgiven.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member flow like's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    sasuke reason why juubi been ressurected and oonoki and gaara not want kill innocent peoples in iwa and suna like sasuke in konoha

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Onoki, A and Gaara are responsible for far worse shit and they are all Kages who have forgiven one another. There's no reason Sasuke can't be forgiven.
    i believe the biggest obstacle for sasuke is that he doesnt have the support of the people of the village

    however helping defeat madara and they jew-bee would definitely help him in the court of public opinion

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    i believe the biggest obstacle for sasuke is that he doesnt have the support of the people of the village

    however helping defeat madara and they jew-bee would definitely help him in the court of public opinion
    The people of the village will bow to him once they realize what he did and is going to do to save them. Not to mention they'll pity him once they realize how his clan was wronged and understand the kind of mind fuckery he's had to deal with.

    And again, they'll all be hypocrites if they forgive everyone else and want to lynch him.

    ---------- Post added at 03:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by flow like View Post
    sasuke reason why juubi been ressurected and oonoki and gaara not want kill innocent peoples in iwa and suna like sasuke in konoha
    Gaara was a mass murdering psychopath before he became a Kage. Onoki had his hand in starting and fuel two world wars in which countless innocents died.

    And let's not even get started on A.

    The Juubi got revived thanks to Obito and Akatsuki. While Sasuke helped capture a part of Bee, he didn't do so in order to resurrect this giant monster.

    I'd yell at you for being so misinformed and naive but you can barely speak English and are almost half my age so I'll give you a pass.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member flow like's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    @Delbi you serious? uchiha prepare to revolution and civil war in konoha= many innocent victims... konoha actions fully justified
    Last edited by flow like; May 22, 2013 at 02:22 PM.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by flow like View Post
    @Delbi you serious? uchiha prepare to revolution and civil war in konoha= many innocent victims
    Sasuke was a child when that happened and had nothing to do with it. So your point is what exactly?
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    I will respond to this in 24 hours, because things need to be taken with a grain of salt for now.
    For now, we need to take things with a grain of salt, but as soon as we're allowed not to use spoiler brackets, we don't?

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    For now, we need to take things with a grain of salt, but as soon as we're allowed not to use spoiler brackets, we don't?
    Wasn't my point, my point is we can't anoint Sasuke Hokage yet or say he could never be it because we need to hear him speak again, and more importantly, everyone needs to hear the true history of the Leaf and what Sasuke just did for them. They'd all be dead if he didnt' choose to help them.

    You're trying to crucify him and say "O he better hope the Raikage doesn't show up".

    A) He'd probably wipe the floor with the Raikage at this point, and

    B) If the Raikage would attack him that would go against this whole peace thing the alliance is making. If they can't forgive Sasuke, they are all a bunch of hypocritical assholes because their own crimes far out weight Sasuke's.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    So you didn't mean take things with a grain of salt for 24 hours, but rather for another few weeks. I guess that makes sense.

    Well, basically I'm not raising the question of whether Sasuke could be Hokage. I'm sketching the situation from Sasuke's own perspective and trying to figure out how the hell he thinks he can just walk up, not apologise and announce himself the next Hokage. No humility either, not like "I want to be Hokage" or "It's my dream to be Hokage". He just made up his mind and decided he's gonna be Hokage. His arrogance has grown. It didn't use to extend to things other than his ninja skills. Now he thinks he has the capacity to change the world.
    Last edited by Xrayz0r; May 23, 2013 at 07:30 AM.

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    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Onoki, A and Gaara are responsible for far worse shit and they are all Kages who have forgiven one another. There's no reason Sasuke can't be forgiven.
    I'm sorry, but exactly what is it that these three have done that are far worse than Sasuke? Gaara was a murderous kid, that one's a given; he's taken the life of a few individuals, although to be fair I can't think of a single person's life he took that didn't initiate the attack. And Gaara's probably given a bit more leeway because he was possessed, quite literally. Oonoki utilised Akatsuki at some point, although exactly what he did remains unknown. And we know that Sasuke has acted with Akatsuki and more, so not sure how Oonoki is responsible for 'far worse shit'. And I've no clue why A is mentioned.

    This isn't to say that Sasuke is beyond redemption, I'm just trying to figure out what you're referencing.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Avishek's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Wasn't my point, my point is we can't anoint Sasuke Hokage yet or say he could never be it because we need to hear him speak again, and more importantly, everyone needs to hear the true history of the Leaf and what Sasuke just did for them. They'd all be dead if he didnt' choose to help them.

    You're trying to crucify him and say "O he better hope the Raikage doesn't show up".

    A) He'd probably wipe the floor with the Raikage at this point, and

    B) If the Raikage would attack him that would go against this whole peace thing the alliance is making. If they can't forgive Sasuke, they are all a bunch of hypocritical assholes because their own crimes far out weight Sasuke's.
    Forgiveness is a long stretch for Sasuke.

    Gaara was made Hokage for political reasons, as Baki stated. He was only loved by the younger generation while the elders were only keeping a watch on him and when he was abducted, they gave up on him. He was not made Hokage despite his tainted early life but because of it.

    Onoki had the support of the people when he used the Akatsuki or given that we've known so little of the stone, we cannot really comment on it. The other kage were against Onoki, not his own village.

    The little we've seen of A's and Mei's history doesn't give us any reason why he or she should be hated or even disliked in their village.

    As for Konoha, the only disputable Hokage, although briefly, was Danzo and even then, his appointment only happened because the village elders supported him. The people wanted Naruto to be the Hokage then and there.

    As for Sasuke being forgiven in light of Itachi's actual actions, I doubt he can justify the following:
    1.Working with Oro and Kabuto immediately after they decimated the village and killed the Third. He wanted power and everyone in this village is so weak?Right. Gotta do better if you want to be forgiven.
    2.Has been a ronin for over 2 years?Searching for Itachi?Couldn't he have done that from the village with permission from the Hokage?
    3.Attacked Bee and tried to kidnap the Cloud Jinchuriki. Just trying to help out a fellow Uchiha? Sorry, no dice.
    4.Disrupted the 5 Kage meet, cut off A's arm and killed a lot of Samurai? Great way to put yourself on the no-fly list, kid.
    5.Killed Danzo, the interim Hokage. Sure, he was a creep but there's no denying everything he did was for the village in his own twisted way. THIS IS THE ONLY THING HE MAY BE FORGIVEN FOR.

    Then, and only after all these years of being the enemy, he is helping the Allied Forces against Madara-Obito. I doubt this will be enough to let his candidature for Hokage be legitimate. None of the other previous or present Hokage or possible Hokage(Naruto and Shikamura) have as much hate among their own people like Sasuke does. And their hate is legitimate. Just saying he's been traumatised doesn't work.

    Infact, if Itachi's real actions are highlighted, Itachi has a better chance of being Hokage than Sasuke. Sadly, he's dead
    Reading is a good habit.

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