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Thread: Sasuke remains an asshole

  1. #16
    Reviewer 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member otomo20's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    People saying Sasuke should be forgiven because others have done worse and been forgiven is like saying we should forgive all criminals just because a serial killer once got an innocent at his trial not a guilty, the fact that his crimes are not as heinous as others does not forgive his actions at all.

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  3. #17
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Avishek's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by otomo20 View Post
    People saying Sasuke should be forgiven because others have done worse and been forgiven is like saying we should forgive all criminals just because a serial killer once got an innocent at his trial not a guilty, the fact that his crimes are not as heinous as others does not forgive his actions at all.
    The thing is, Sasuke crimes are against his own village and then, by extension, the entire shinobi world. So, Sasuke's crimes are more heinous than almost everyone on the Allied side. Infact only the villains of this manga exceed him in crimes
    Reading is a good habit.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Can you people list Sasuke's actions that make him so "heinous"?

    Then balance them with him saving the entire world curently in the manga. You can be damn sure if the Kages where not there they would be dead...

  5. #19
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Avishek's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Can you people list Sasuke's actions that make him so "heinous"?

    Then balance them with him saving the entire world curently in the manga. You can be damn sure if the Kages where not there they would be dead...
    But the thing is, you can balance EVERYTHING against his aspirations to be Hokage and he will fall short by a long distance. And actually, the proceedings have been so convoluted that you can't give Sasuke total credit for the revival. And yes, many years of wrongs can't be balanced against a big right. You can't remove an opinion that's been built over the years in a single stroke, especially when there are so many hurdles to be overcome by him. Yes, he may be forgiven but really, it will take many years(logically, don't know what Kishi will do) for him to convince people he can be considered for Hokage,
    Reading is a good habit.

  6. #20
    Reviewer 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member otomo20's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Can you people list Sasuke's actions that make him so "heinous"?

    Then balance them with him saving the entire world curently in the manga. You can be damn sure if the Kages where not there they would be dead...
    As if he intended to do that, he revived the kages for himself to satisfy his curiosity, he didnt revive them to save konoha, and hashirama broke out of the restraints and could have killed them all if he wanted to, Sasuke basically unleashed Hashirama without knowing fully what could happen.

    and he hasnt saved anyone yet, he just arrived on the battlefield.

  7. #21
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    He remains a seriously self absorbed delusional idiot. And I like it. I couldn't stand the fact that he would simply be converted by an anekdote and would suddenly turn likable. He's as unlikable as he ever was.
    He's unlikable to people who are sh*tting their pants because their favorite main character is going to get eclipsed.

    Quote Quote:
    First of all, his love for the village isn't real. It's his love for his brother that gets channeled into substitute love for the village in place of his brother's. It's not that he actually cares about the village in the first degree sense.
    It's called character growth with a capital C. Unbelievable? That's simply because you refuse to accept an outcome that you dislike.

    Quote Quote:
    Furthermore, the arrogance of standing next to his now once again friend, I assume, and having the nerve to simply announce himself the next Hokage when he knows it has been Naruto's dream since the start (and is more deserving of it). I could understand if there was no candicate currently available that he would take the responsibility, but this isn't the case, there's Naruto.
    Lol if that's called arrogance, then Naruto would be the most arrogant character in the series, since he constantly talked about how he will be the Hokage, like, 3 times a day and 30 times a week, heh.


    Quote Quote:
    For not even saying sorry to everyone he should in the proper way, which is done by bowing and begging for forgiveness. For not recognizing that he doesn't have what it takes to be a true inspiring revolutionary figure.
    At least he wouldn't be a bigot.

    Quote Quote:
    For not recognizing that for the purposes of protecting the village, you don't need the title of Hokage, he can do it from the shades. Yet he just needs to be in the spotlight and steal the title from someone more qualified in all aspects. Also, for not recognizing that his moral character has been tainted too much already to still think of himself as righteous, and worthy of such a position.
    See, this just proves my point. People are simply butthurt because Sasuke is eclipsing Naruto.

    And please, don't fake it by saying that Sasuke is an immoral character. If scums like Tobirama, Onoki and A can be hailed as "heroes" and saviors", how much morality do you need to be a Hokage? Lol.

    At the very least Sasuke will not, say, massacre a whole clan "for the village". He would also definitely not kill an innocent just to dig out that Byakugan "for the village".

    Quote Quote:
    Kakashi has matured in the right way, he does his best while never forgetting to admit that because he was once trash, that this will haunt him forever.
    Kakashi is still trash for failing to stand up against the "shadows" of the village. In the end he is as good as any trash who follow orders from the elders blindly.

    Quote Quote:
    Last, given his track record of constantly changing his mind, we (and the characters in the manga) would be safe to regard Sasuke's essence as an "unstable character". Yes he may be good now, they can legitimately say, but with this guy you can never be too sure. He might end up killing us tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow he might be good again.
    Sasuke changed his mind ONE TIME in the whole series. Unstable my foot.

    Quote Quote:
    Also not recognizing that the entire ninja world at this point worships Naruto for protecting them all with Kyuubi cloak and being able to lift their spirits just by shouting his way of the ninja. When really, no one thinks that highly of Sasuke (not to mention Tsunade and the Konoha elders, who actually get to make the decision). Indeed how can he think he would even be accepted as Hokage by this ninja world?
    I'm fairly certain that the tide is going to turn in the foreseeable future. And the elders? They'll be replaced soon enough. Tsunade? She would probably kill herself to save the other fail-Kages.

    Quote Quote:
    Given all this, even if he's under no manipulation by anyone, I don't see him as any less delusional than he used to be.
    He's going to compete for the position fair and square. Nothing delusional about it at all.

    Quote Quote:
    Despite him gaining all of the truth, he still hasn't matured. Orochimaru is wrong.
    He has matured. It's just that you do not have the maturity to acknowledge it.

    Quote Quote:
    But the fact that he chose to kill everyone including children who don't know anything, all because Itachi suffered for them, that is pathetic moral reasoning.
    I think you are mistaking Danzou for Sasuke LOL.

    I am going to enjoy the next few chapters with Sasuke performing "NON-talk-no-jutsu-related" techniques. Sucks for all the haters.
    Last edited by Ryr; May 23, 2013 at 10:00 AM.

  8. #22
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Avishek's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    He's unlikable to people who are sh*tting their pants because their favorite main character is going to get eclipsed.
    He's not likable at all. Kishi didn't make him likable to anyone in the Shinobi World given his actions. This is Sasuke's first step to redemption. And Naruto getting 'eclipsed' is something that depends on how much Naruto has recovered. He had to protect atleast 1000 useless shinobi and try and attack the enemies. My personal opinion is that they both don't have a chance against and EDO-MADARA!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    It's called character growth with a capital C. Unbelievable? That's simply because you refuse to accept an outcome that you dislike.
    I second that. Yes, he acknowledges Itachi's sacrifice and has decided to make sure that the events that led to Itachi becoming who he was are never repeated. His motivations aren't biased or anything. Even if he is channeling his love for his brother in trying to better the village, what's wrong with that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    Lol if that's called arrogance, then Naruto would be the most arrogant character in the series, since he constantly talked about how he will be the Hokage, like, 3 times a day and 30 times a week, heh.
    I agree, to a degree. Naruto is arrogant. But he was the only one to acknowledge Sasuke's statement. And Sasuke, through not yet stated, has legitimate reasons for wanting to be Hokage. It's not like he's trying to steal Naruto's spotlight. But stating it out loud having just arrived on the good side, it is a little sudden. But not arrogance.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    At least he wouldn't be a bigot.
    It's not about being a bigot. He needs to understand that his views on Itachi clouded his judgement and made him commit some wrong actions(becoming part of Akatsuki being a major one). It's a big step towards gaining acceptance in the village.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    See, this just proves my point. People are simply butthurt because Sasuke is eclipsing Naruto.

    And please, don't fake it by saying that Sasuke is an immoral character. If scums like Tobirama, Onoki and A can be hailed as "heroes" and saviors", how much morality do you need to be a Hokage? Lol.

    At the very least Sasuke will not, say, massacre a whole clan "for the village". He would also definitely not kill an innocent just to dig out that Byakugan "for the village".
    The way he structures his wordings is a little too easy to flame. And why is A immoral? Or even Onoki? They did what they felt was right for the village. As for 'morality', I doubt things are so black and white in the shinobi world. But really, comparing any of Tobirama, Onoki or A to Sasuke is too much. Each of them could reason that they did it for the sake of the village and each of them could show that future events supported them(heck, Tobirama practically predicted the Uchiha massacre). Yes, their decisions may have been wrong when taken in context, but unlike Sasuke, they were trying to uplift their village.

    And please get off your high horse, Sasuke refusing to kill an innocent. He would have killed Sakura if Kakashi and then Naruto hadn't intervened. And he almost killed Karin to dispose of Danzo. Karin was a team-mate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    Kakashi is still trash for failing to stand up against the "shadows" of the village. In the end he is as good as any trash who follow orders from the elders blindly.
    So, you question Kakashi who I doubt had done any action 'blindly'? Which action are you talking about?Please clarify. And sadly, in his own twisted way, Danzo was doing everything to keep his village's position and status. So, he can't be called a traitor which Sasuke essentially is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    Sasuke changed his mind ONE TIME in the whole series. Unstable my foot.
    Actually, he has changed his mind many times, through each time I feel has been due to the events that occurred to him, and not because of instability. His instability is due to so many conflicting emotions and possibly, due to his Uchiha heritage. First he tries to kill Itachi, then he learns the truth and decides to destroy Konoha and finally he decides to change Konoha. Each is a step in progress for him and not some random bullshit. And I doubt he has forgiven the men who orchestrated the massacre.(heck, he killed Danzo and Hiruzen is already dead!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    I'm fairly certain that the tide is going to turn in the foreseeable future. And the elders? They'll be replaced soon enough. Tsunade? She would probably kill herself to save the other fail-Kages.
    Actually, the people of Sasuke's generation are still there and I'm fairly sure they're all pro-Naruto and anti-Sasuke. Heck, the only guys who have any say and are supporting Sasuke being given a chance at redemption are Naruto and Gaara!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    He's going to compete for the position fair and square. Nothing delusional about it at all.
    I totally agree. Atleast, he didn't suddenly start laughing. THAT would have been a sign of delusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    He has matured. It's just that you do not have the maturity to acknowledge it.
    It's not about maturity. I feel Sasuke has had a deathwish all these years. His actions didn't suggest he thought he could actually defeat Itachi. In fact, Itachi's death was the event that brought about his MS. Given his actions, his reaction should have been euphoric rather than traumatic. And I believe he is no satisfied with Hashirama's answers. It seems like he is still conflicted but would like to get the answers himself rather than depend on someone else. That's his basis for becoming a Hokage. And I think it's one of Sasuke's most rational statement ALL MANGA and Naruto atleast acknowledges that, even if he doesn't completely know why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    I think you are mistaking Danzou for Sasuke LOL.
    Actually, his rant at the waterfalls to Naruto and co after killing Danzo did include killing EVERYONE who have profited from Itachi's sacrifice. But I think it was all talk. Or else he would have taken advantage of Pain's attack to kill as many as he could.
    Last edited by Avishek; May 23, 2013 at 10:34 AM.
    Reading is a good habit.

  9. #23
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by otomo20 View Post
    People saying Sasuke should be forgiven because others have done worse and been forgiven is like saying we should forgive all criminals just because a serial killer once got an innocent at his trial not a guilty, the fact that his crimes are not as heinous as others does not forgive his actions at all.
    once again

    sasuke killed no one, the only person he killed, danzou

    did FAR WORSE things than sasuke, and danzou deserved to die, regardless if his evil actions were "for the good of the village" in his opinion

  10. #24
    Reviewer 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member otomo20's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    once again

    sasuke killed no one, the only person he killed, danzou

    did FAR WORSE things than sasuke, and danzou deserved to die, regardless if his evil actions were "for the good of the village" in his opinion
    What about all the samurias he killed at the kage summit?

  11. #25
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by otomo20 View Post
    What about all the samurias he killed at the kage summit?
    good point, even though they are fodder they are still innocent people

    i never said that sasuke should be the hokage

    but i do believe if he stands up and helps in the fight with madara, he will be forgiven for the most part

  12. #26
    Reviewer 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member otomo20's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    good point, even though they are fodder they are still innocent people

    i never said that sasuke should be the hokage

    but i do believe if he stands up and helps in the fight with madara, he will be forgiven for the most part
    I just dont believe he should be, he should have some sort of trial or justice for the people he killed, its not just the samurai but also the ninjas from the hidden cloud who followed him when he kidnapped KB.

  13. #27
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by otomo20 View Post
    What about all the samurias he killed at the kage summit?
    The samurais were all killed in battle, not in a massacre. If you are going to count how many people a Hokage killed on average, how about we start with Hashirama and Tobirama. They all killed countless people throughout countless wars and battles. Sasuke's "achievement" pales in comparison.

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Sasuke killing those samurai is no different from Minato killing those Iwa nins or Kakashi killing those Sound nins during the exam. Sasuke killing the Kumo nin is no different from Minato killing that Iwa nin who nearly killed Kakashi first time he used chidori. Sasuke was attacked, he was just defending himself. Why would he put his life or Taka's life at risk by going easy on the samurai and giving them a chance to attack? He even warned them to back off.

    What about Tobirama being delusional and thinking the Uchiha were affected by hatred or emotion? Or thinking that Madara = all Uchiha?

  15. #29
    Reviewer 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member otomo20's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke's moral character

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    The samurais were all killed in battle, not in a massacre. If you are going to count how many people a Hokage killed on average, how about we start with Hashirama and Tobirama. They all killed countless people throughout countless wars and battles. Sasuke's "achievement" pales in comparison.
    Exactly, the kages killed in a war, Sasuke killed during a summit meeting, his actions are those of a lone criminal not two countries at war with each other, and remember he did kill Jay of the hidden cloud as well.

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  17. #30
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member naruto the best's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Balancing Sasuke's actions....

    Here we go...

    He wanted to kill Itachi so much that he even joined forces with Orochimaru.
    Itachi died...

    Just as the things and his obsession in killing his bro are supposed to be finished, Tobi came in and after the flow of their conversation what?
    He then turned his eye to destroying the Konoha...He was so obssessed with it that he even wanted to kill Kakashi and Sakura w/o thinking of their past relationships. Now he met his brother and even after their conversation Sasuke still would want to destroy Konoha.

    Then he met the Kages and Hashirama put a score by changing him again not to destroy the Konoha but rather govern it.....

    So Sasuke from a good kid > (bad guy)Itachi's obsession > (bad guy) Konoha destruction obsession > (good guy)I want to become the Hokage!

    As we can see the turn of events in Sasuke's life from a good kid to "Konoha obssesion" is somehow a good flow of events.
    The thing that actually ruined it is that after all he did he went to the battlefield and announce that he wants to become the Hokage like nothing happens. The more acceptable sense would be that Sasuke declares "Wait guys calm....I change my mind I wanna help you defeat the adversary" then later after putting badass performance and the shinobi world is saved with his help it's a more acceptable time that he declares " Look guys i realize my mistakes. The Konoha must be protected.....soooo I wanna become a Hokage". This way negative reactions are minimized and I think this is the better way of approaching situation like that. Think of this: You want to destroy your country and you were once responsible for killing some of its leaders and even attempted to kill some of your friends, and then all of a sudden when you realize something good you immediately announce that you want to become the President of that country. This is somehow ridiculous.

    Now the point is how are we gonna justify this action from Sasuke?

    Sasuke isn't a bad guy at first. He was in fact a kind boy. Everything changed when his family and clan were slaughtered. The emotional impact turned him to what he is. As being said the sharingan eye has with it emotional blows that would surely consume one's heart especially when the Uchiha encounters huge frustration. Also Sasuke is just 16 and is so prone to immediate influence. He can turn immediately to being emo then wants to bang everyone else. Then suddenly he can change his mind and love something he absolutely hates before- Itachi and Konoha's hatred to Itachi and Konoha's pillar for support. This is how Kishi portrays Sasuke.

    Kishi may have some flaws in portraying Sasuke's character and instability, but Sasuke I believe isn't an asshole. It's just that it's the Sasuke way of this manga like Naruto way of not giving up even how far a friend becomes worse....somehow can be branded as foolish but can take more interesting shows in the manga...

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