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Thread: Sasuke remains an asshole

  1. #331
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    I wonder why did you assume I'm using this as an excuse to call him an "asshole." Don't get any ideas just because I'm saying the truth. I could careless if he's an asshole or not, you're the one who's making him look like a saint. That guy is dead, otherwise they wouldn't say "it's too late" over his dead body. And even if he's not dead (which he is), they still assaulted three Kumo Nin, one of them was the hero and guardian of the village. Also, how did you end this argument and make it seem like he killed no one ? He still killed a bunch of Samurai with a smile on his face. He even did so despite SUIGETSU telling him NOT to kill them. That along with the fact that he was going to destroy a village filled with innocent people.

    If Zetsu didn't betray him, he would've slipped out without a problem ? You mean like when he slipped away from the Raikage, but instead of thinking of another approach, he went straight for the other Kages ? He would have to be a few steps above retarded to think he can invade a Kage meeting meant to discuss how to deal with him (Tobi told him the meeting will be held because his and Pain's actions made a huge commotion) without engaging them in a fight. Also, to completely destroy whatever hope you may have of defending him, read this page and ENJOY it. Now you can say this discussion is over
    He never attached any Kage other than for self-defense. If you have any proof, kindly show us. Mei went out of her way to block his path when he was getting out of the meeting room when Danzo took the opportunity to slip out. Onoki deliberately attacked Sasuke as well, when there was no hostility from his side. As for the Samurais, then it's their fault that they decided to come forth and attack anyway when they were warned not to. It's killed or be killed. Nothing evil about it.

  2. #332
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    how am I denying it or wrong? If the manga confirms Jay's death, then I'll be wrong. Right now it's all unknown. And because they probably think they can't get Bee back? Failure does tend to make one sad, no?

    Anime. <_< Either way, Sasuke only wanted the hokage's head, not the other kage. I doubt he'd go out of his way to kill the other kage, but he would definitely fight to kill without batting an eye.
    Yes, you're denying it. He CLEARLY said "Jay", so why the fuck would he be thinking about B ? I don't know why are you constantly ignore this.

    But he still killed the Samurai even though Suigetsu told him not to. Also, Anime translation is much more accurate

    ---------- Post added at 09:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by shahdan View Post
    He never attached any Kage other than for self-defense. If you have any proof, kindly show us. Mei went out of her way to block his path when he was getting out of the meeting room when Danzo took the opportunity to slip out. Onoki deliberately attacked Sasuke as well, when there was no hostility from his side. As for the Samurais, then it's their fault that they decided to come forth and attack anyway when they were warned not to. It's killed or be killed. Nothing evil about it.
    It's like attacking a police station when you're a criminal and not expecting to be attacked. He arrogantly attacked the Kage summit with the thought that if they get in his way, he will kill them. It's almost the same as coming for their head, since them attacking him is something bound to happen.

  3. #333
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    Yes, you're denying it. He CLEARLY said "Jay", so why the fuck would he be thinking about B ? I don't know why are you constantly ignore this.

    But he still killed the Samurai even though Suigetsu told him not to. Also, Anime translation is much more accurate
    No, one shinobi said Jay, the other said "we were too late," which does not mean Jay is dead. It does not appear they checked to see if Jay was alive on the panel, they merely looked sad at him. Unless they did, in fact check before the panel turned to them.

    So Sasuke should have let the samurai kill him? All Sasuke did was defend himself, considering the samurai were going to attack him. I don't see why Sasuke should let the kage or samurai beat him up, nor should I see why the kage should let him pass and give him freedom to kill Danzou. We all agree Danzou is a major douche that needs to die, right? I dunno if you agree with this or not, but I still think Sasuke was in the wrong and should be punished for killing Danzou, who was the hokage at the time.

    The only difference between him going after Bee and Kumo going after Kushina and Hinata, then demanding Hinata's father's body, is that Sasuke was working for Akatsuki, a known criminal organization.

    Anime takes liberties.

  4. #334
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post

    It's like attacking a police station when you're a criminal and not expecting to be attacked. He arrogantly attacked the Kage summit with the thought that if they get in his way, he will kill them. It's almost the same as coming for their head, since them attacking him is something bound to happen.
    Sasuke never attacked the Kage summit, he infiltrated it; it a very basic ninja tactic all ninjas in the academy were taught. If he killed people when his own life was on the line because Zetsu betrayed him, then it isn't mindless killing, it's a very basic instinctual fight for survival. He was there for Danzo, other Kages never should have interfered given their own involvements with Criminal Organization. That place was no police station. I think we both are aware of it.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Sasuke never meant to attack any Kage other than Danzou, he had absolutey no reason to. Let's not make up facts here, he fought them because they were in his way. You can call that self defense if you want, but he never had any intention of fighting 5 Kages at once.

    Sasuke may be brash and at the time highly unstable but he's not an idiot. He knows his limitations, he mentioned this in the aftermath of fighting Orochimaru. He isn't stupid enough to challenge 5 of the strongest ninja's in existence.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  6. #336
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    No, one shinobi said Jay, the other said "we were too late," which does not mean Jay is dead. It does not appear they checked to see if Jay was alive on the panel, they merely looked sad at him. Unless they did, in fact check before the panel turned to them.

    So Sasuke should have let the samurai kill him? All Sasuke did was defend himself, considering the samurai were going to attack him. I don't see why Sasuke should let the kage or samurai beat him up, nor should I see why the kage should let him pass and give him freedom to kill Danzou. We all agree Danzou is a major douche that needs to die, right? I dunno if you agree with this or not, but I still think Sasuke was in the wrong and should be punished for killing Danzou, who was the hokage at the time.

    The only difference between him going after Bee and Kumo going after Kushina and Hinata, then demanding Hinata's father's body, is that Sasuke was working for Akatsuki, a known criminal organization.

    Anime takes liberties.
    Of course, you're nothing if not desperate. I mean no offense of course, but you always fall to the smallest and most insignificant details. That guy said "Jay", the other was responding to him. If he responded to him, then the "we were too late" meant they were too late to save him. If he wasn't dead, why the fuck would they say that they were late ? It's the opposite actually, they would say something like "We barely made it." So those guys that Orochimaru ripped their faces off are still alive because when Anko found them, we didn't see her check whether they were dead or not.

    Why not retreat ? Did you know how many options he had at that time ?

    1- Retreat and have another approach.

    2- Listen to Suigetsu and NOT kill them, since the Samurai weren't able to detect them until he jumped in and slaughtered them.

    3- Have Jugo take care of them since he offered to do so while the rest search for Danzo.

    4- Wait until Danzo ISN'T surrounded by freaking Kages.

    He went in there, in a place filled with Kages, as a missing Nin, attempting to kill the Hokage, while looking down on the other Kages and threatening to kill them if they don't get the fuck out of his way. And when he had so many chances to rethink the plan, he goes for the kill. He could've avoided the Samurai, but he killed them. He could've avoided the Raikage but was actually the one to attack him first. When the Raikage proved overwhelming, he said "lol fck dis" and ran for the hills leaving his comrades behind. He then instead of doing something smart, went where the rest of the Kages are and threatened to kill them.

    Anime uses the same dialogues (excluding fillers), and Anime translators are far more accurate than the Manga translators (who are the one actually taking liberties).

    Also, this also is my answer to shahdan.
    Last edited by KingOfNight; July 24, 2013 at 05:11 PM.

  7. #337
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    how is it desperate? Can you even prove for sure that Jay's dead? it's still speculation based solely on the nin saying "we're too late," which can mean too late in backing up Jay, leading to his loss. Didn't she say they were dead? There's a difference between saying "we were too late!" and "he's dead, dammit!"

    He could have retreated, but they'd have all come after him anyway. He'd still be fighting. Not sure if they already knew Sasuke was there or if he really did jump out. Or remember if Juugo did offer to stay and take care of the samurai.

    Wait for what? Sasuke had to know who was Danzou and what he looked like, otherwise the ambush would have failed if he went after the wrong person.

    How could he have avoided the Raikage, who was intent on killing Sasuke? Raikage would have chased after Sasuke either way, Sasuke couldn't escape. Sasuke didn't leave because he found the Raikage overwhelming, he left because it was a waste of his time and he found an opening. And he threatened tok ill the kage who got in his way.


    Then use the MangaHelpers' translators, they're known to be very accurate.

  8. #338
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    how is it desperate? Can you even prove for sure that Jay's dead? it's still speculation based solely on the nin saying "we're too late," which can mean too late in backing up Jay, leading to his loss. Didn't she say they were dead? There's a difference between saying "we were too late!" and "he's dead, dammit!"

    He could have retreated, but they'd have all come after him anyway. He'd still be fighting. Not sure if they already knew Sasuke was there or if he really did jump out. Or remember if Juugo did offer to stay and take care of the samurai.

    Wait for what? Sasuke had to know who was Danzou and what he looked like, otherwise the ambush would have failed if he went after the wrong person.

    How could he have avoided the Raikage, who was intent on killing Sasuke? Raikage would have chased after Sasuke either way, Sasuke couldn't escape. Sasuke didn't leave because he found the Raikage overwhelming, he left because it was a waste of his time and he found an opening. And he threatened tok ill the kage who got in his way.


    Then use the MangaHelpers' translators, they're known to be very accurate.
    So a spy is kidnapped by the enemy. The enemy doesn't want this guy to reveal the information he had obtained about them (which is why they caught him in the first place). The spy realizes his fate and apologize in his mind for not being able to succeed. Then the back up arrive to find his beat up body. They get depressed and comment how they were too late. How can thinking this guy is alive be anything but desperate attempt to further extend this argument ? Okay, he's not dead. But they tortured him, you happy now ? Good. 'cause it doesn't change anything. If I remember Anko looked disgusted, but she didn't say anything hinting at them being dead.

    They knew he was in there but they couldn't detect them. One of them thought he had escaped until he jumped in and was like "I'm very angry now." Jugo did offer that, but Sasuke was already in his way killing the first Samurai.

    Sasuke knew how Danzo looked like not too long before the summit. When he was with Zetsu staring at Danzo from some dark place. He simply could've went back and waited for better odds.

    Jugo told him not to rush things and to wait a little bit, but no, he went straight for the Raikage. If he didn't find him overwhelming and if it was simply a waste of time, he wouldn't have invaded the summit in the first place. Unless of course, he took a few lessons on how to engage an enemy from Naruto, thus, lowering his intelligence.
    Last edited by KingOfNight; July 25, 2013 at 12:37 PM.

  9. #339
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    Samurai, Kumo Nin and other billions of random people when he was with Orochimaru. It doesn't matter what his intentions were, he was willing to kill any Kage that gets in his way to Danzo just like he killed those Samurai that got in his way. He got whooped and decided to just ignore them since they aren't a priority, but if he could've, he'd definitely slaughter them.
    A major point was made about Sasuke not killing people during his time with Orochimaru and afterward. Both Orochimaru and Suigetsu mentioned it. He only began to kill at the summit.

    Spoiler: Impossibility;3488065 show


    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    Cherry-picking this one part of your huge reply to people: I think Root is a bad example to compare to anything else in the manga. Out of the myriad dropped plot lines in Naruto, Root sticks out far and above most of them. If that had gotten any development beyond Sai and Danzou's goons, we'd probably have had a civil war arc with plenty of Zabuza-esque monsters. I guess all the people in Root just stopped existing after Danzou died lol

    Kishi was so desperate to drop that plot that he even left Torune to the anime crew.
    While I agree it would have been an awesome plotline to fully see happen, I seriously doubt any would have ended up like Zabuza. Zabuza was never that sort of ninja. I think another Itachi and Kisame would have been the more likely creation. Root seems to suicidally loyal to cause a civil war anyway.

  10. #340
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Impossibility's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    What a joke. I constantly asked for said evidence and all you bothered to give is stuff from the fanwiiki. You even said you couldn't be bothered to provide it in one of your posts. So stop trying to make it seem as if you were actually supporting any of your claims. If that had been the case, then logically it would have been brought up long ago, not now after you began to lose. And my argument hasn't change, at least not much beyond what it originally was. There is no suggestion. There's plenty of reasons for the villages to have animosity against each other without there having to have been hard feeling due to war. If my argument was so weak, then it should have been easy to prove wrong, yet here you are. Clearly my argument has been just fine.
    I've provided the info, and you've decided to change your arguments to ignore it. And fanwikis provide links to support their statements, it's simply easier than compiling links myself. You yourself have admitted to errors in your argument, while you've contradicted yourself over and over. You're right here though, this is a joke.

    Quote Quote:
    ...Yeah, I was wrong in assuming that it would always be half a class moving more, instead of the more reasonable conclusion of the majority of the class. I said Kiba has pretty much been shown just like Naruto, and that Ino's issue being attraction towards a psych. Stalking is emotionally unstable, and I gave you an actual link stating how overeating is a psychological disorder. Given that we were speaking solely of the Rookies... Not to mention there isn't anything you cold use to establish such a claim with what little we've seen outside key characters. At best, you would add Tenten to Shikamaru and Shino, while adding Neji, Lee, and Konohamaru with the others.
    More reasonable conclusion of the majority of the class? That doesn't make any sense, your own original argument sets the limit at 50% and then was wittled to less than that. Psychological disorders aren't necessarily emotional instability, and being attracted to the wrong guy doesn't come close. I disagree with your classification of Lee and Neji as emotionally unstable. You pointed to the rookies, but your initial statement was about shinobi in general, and we've seen that many shinobi are stable and functioning.

    Quote Quote:
    Which is what I had been saying about it not being a surprised attack, and that Konoha had been expecting them, whcih you had been claiming against. The only ninjas you showed "just" joining the battle was the Anbu, which doesn't hurt my claim at all.
    I'm still saying it was a surprise attack. I just pointed as I had at the beginning of the argument that Konoha was already on a heightened state of alert because of Oro's presence. And what of the other ninjas handling themselves that we hadn't seen before. Your argument that Suna's forces are superior to Konoha's is unsubstantiated and counter to what we've been shown.

    Quote Quote:
    You showed an error which I pointed out with other panels of the same angle, and then refused to prove otherwise. Um, Orochimaru would have put them in at the same time he gave Danzo Shisui's arm. It's not all that complex.
    You say its an error, I say its support from the manga. So Oro put them in when exactly? If it isn't complex, why have you been unable to show that that is the case.

    Quote Quote:
    No I didn't. Who Konoha specifically fought during the Third War, and Konoha being the only village to fight multiple wars: You're trying to combine two different arguments as if they were a single one.
    Yes, they were parts of separate arguments. However, they contradict one another, rather blatantly.

    Quote Quote:
    Except he had just joined Gato, not to mention that if his reason for working with Gato was that and he was still working for him...
    He had just joined Gato, that was stated where, if you'd be so kind? And maybe he continued to be a mercenary because that was the only option available to him, being a missing-nin and everything. From what we've mercenary is the most common career path for missing-nin.

    Quote Quote:
    Well since it was already acknowledged that Gaara couldn't have used them... And no, that's not suffice when we know Shikamaru had his own reasons for claiming it.
    He could still be referring to Oonoki and Danzo. What's your point? Shikamaru stated it because it was the case. Is your argument that Shikamaru just made it up?

    Quote Quote:
    So now you're gonna outright contradict the series, which mention several times that Kabuto was Sasori's agent? Must work great when you only rely upon your own beliefs. Those wouldn't be examples of murdering being wrong, but simply the dislike of allowing allies to be killed when it can be prevented. That in no way makes it "illegal", especially since as mention, it's a regular job to kill and they're taught to murder as children. And please show when kidnapping was said to be allowed.
    No, Kabuto was Sasori's agent. However, that was in the past. At the time of the invasion, Kabuto wasn't acting under Sasori's orders, he was Oro's loyal servant. Ok, so then your examples of kidnapping being wrong are simply incidents of dislike of allowing loved ones to be taken when it can be stopped. The word 'murder' carries the meaning of unlawful killing. So if you use the word murder, you've already accepted the act's illegality. That was my point.

    Quote Quote:
    It does when he didn't have the power or right to.
    No one else seemed to think so.

    Quote Quote:
    The entire reaosn he brought it was was because it was a crime. And this is what I was talking about. Nowhere did I claim that Sasuke's actions made it as if he was "never" a member. Sasuke abandoned his usage of Akatsuki before he actually got to use them, whereas it's made clear that Onoki used them quite a bit before current events made them an enemy of the villages. There's a clear difference between the two.
    Does he say that? I'm waiting, if Sasuke's rap sheet is limited to things specifically stated as criminal acts on his part, I don't see why the Kages shouldn't be held to that standard. Your argument was essentially, his membership in Akatsuki wasn't a crime because he left it, so that's pretty much what you're arguing. His criminal act doesn't count because he chose to stop. I'd say he used them, he was provided with intel, supported, and rescued by Akatsuki, and he did their bidding. And I'm not sure about the point of your last argument, it almost seems as support for Oonoki. Sasuke used a terrorist group, while Oonoki used a mercenary group before they were recognised as terrorists. One seems worse than the other.

  11. #341
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    I think there absolutely no question about the majority of Konohas genins not having a psychological disorder, and one would have to lie to oneself to think otherwise. Are we gone retarded now and ignoring all those side characters from the first chapters, those that were not highlighted by a special Team leader, those that aren't represented by the Konoha 11. The burden of prove is on you RK.

    Oros attack on Konoha was a suprise one, how anybody actually reading this manga could think otherwise is another mystery. Oh fucking course ANBU was around on security while two villages, which where in a state of war not long ago, cooperating to organize a chunin exam/tournament. Yes Konoha was on alert, but so would be every single other village in this manga, if they had a delegation and shinobi from around the world participate in their country. Doesn't mean they knew about the suprise attack.
    Last edited by Schabrak; July 29, 2013 at 05:28 AM.
    Firm but Fair

  12. #342
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Konoha didn't know about Orochimaru's surprise attack, they stationed ANBU to be prepared just in case, and to provide additional security. I think Gai was shocked at how few ANBU were posted on Hiruzen's orders. And no Konoha 12, whether Chouji, Sasuke, or even Neji, had any pyschological disorder. Hinata suffered from lack of self confidence, Neji suffered anger, Sasuke suffered arrogance, Naruto suffered loneliness, etc, but none had psychological disorder.

    ANBU was definitely on higher alert thanks to Orochimaru though, and possibly Gaara, not because of foreigners coming to Konoha.

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  14. #343
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    Spoiler: Impossibility;3491913 show


    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    I think there absolutely no question about the majority of Konohas genins not having a psychological disorder, and one would have to lie to oneself to think otherwise. Are we gone retarded now and ignoring all those side characters from the first chapters, those that were not highlighted by a special Team leader, those that aren't represented by the Konoha 11. The burden of prove is on you RK.
    Really, because considering we know next to nothing about them, claiming so is silly. I can easily point to real world examples to show that the majority of children soldiers, which they are, would have psychological disorders. Throw in a childhood in a war-torn country and the constant threat of death, and how anyone could think children raised to kill is "normal" is strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    Oros attack on Konoha was a suprise one, how anybody actually reading this manga could think otherwise is another mystery. Oh fucking course ANBU was around on security while two villages, which where in a state of war not long ago, cooperating to organize a chunin exam/tournament. Yes Konoha was on alert, but so would be every single other village in this manga, if they had a delegation and shinobi from around the world participate in their country. Doesn't mean they knew about the suprise attack.
    Maybe because we were literally shown Ibiki and some of Konoha's forces awaiting for the attack by Suna? Or perhaps because Sarutobi was shown expecting a betrayal from the Kazekage? As I believe I mentioned, a surprise attack would have been like what happen during Pain's invasion, where we were clearly shown Konoha's forces caught off guard and in a panic.

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    You can't use the real world because it's completely different from Naruto world. Kids are groomed to be killers at young age with virtually no one objecting to it. in the real world, there are a few people that will get offended and all at the thought. There seems to have been no disorder in any of the Konoha 12 or many other shinobi that we have seen. Konoha was enjoying years of peace, there was no constant threat of death for the kids before they became genins ever since Hashirama and Madara established Konoha. We know there were four dangers - Madara attackin the village, Kyuubi and Tobi unleashing their rage against the village, Orochimaru invading the village, and Pain decimating the village.

    True though, Orochimaru's invasion was less of a surprise than Pain's, considering his appearance in the Forest of Death set off alarm.

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    Re: Sasuke remains an asshole

    I don't see why I can use similar situations. And just because they appear normal doesn't mean they don't have any disorders. I think people are confused about how said disorders would manifest. Anyway, the children are taught from a young age about killing and dying. Just because they presumably wouldn't be involved in direct actions til later on doesn't mean they don't know the threat. And really, considering the number of events that happen in Konoha in just the last decade, that's not even really the case.

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