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Thread: Who's fitting to be Hokage?

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    No. Hidan and kakuzu aren't enough to make minato run for his money. They aren't capable to do that. There's no other ninja who pose a threat to minato when he's still alive. If the freaking kyubi can't harm minato, do you expect those duo can? Then you must be out of your mind.

    Okay, what about shikamaru will fight the kyubi to protect the konoha. Can he do it? No. He'll die with just a second.
    The Kyuubi can't harm him? It's the other way around completely. Minato is the one who couldn't do jackshit to the Kyuubi.

    Yeah, he'll die in a second. Which makes Minato who died in an hour a much superior individual. And the fact that it took him an hour to die just shows how awesome he is.

    Quote Quote:
    See that? With those three ninja's, only minato was the one who solved obito's jutsu in an instant. And yet you're underestimating him? Gosh
    Yeah, well. Sakura did that and better but everyone still underestimates her.

    Don't get me wrong, clearly Shikamaru is leagues below Minato in terms of fighting power. But Minato is even further below Shikamaru in terms of intelligence.
    Last edited by KingOfNight; August 27, 2013 at 11:14 AM.

  2. #17
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by naruto the best View Post
    ,I believe he would have been wounded at least, though not enough to kill the Raikage. He could have wounded the Raikage as what was evidenced by Bee’s tentacle being cut. That’s just a very obvious hint, had Bee not pushed A. Also, the point of my post is that Shikamaru couldn’t do the same fast trick as displayed by Minato whose reflexes are enough to evade A’s fastest punch attack. Minato needed his hiraishin and Naruto needed his cloak to evade such thing, and Shikamaru really doesn’t have the tool. Rikodou King seems to really mess with this comparison, putting Minato to a level where he doesn’t deserve to. Everybody has his opinion, but saying Minato didn’t create his thing either (which is FALSE), and Shikamaru would do better against the likes of those mentioned kages seem to be just a hell of bias, not an objective evaluation of their abilities. Tell me, if that was Shikamaru’s standing there and A pulls his fastest punch, would he be able to evade? Put Shikamaru against Tobi that night with Minato, do you think Shikamaru does even have the tool to fuck the job up?
    I doubt he'd have been wounded at all. Again though, speculation - there's no way to tell if Minato would have caused damage or not. Bee pushing Raikage doesn't indicate there'd be damage; he'd be stupid not to push the Raikage out of the way. I think Bee saw Minato could have tagged Raikage, considering he anticipated Minato teleporting behind him.

    No one else but Minato can dodge Raikage's fastest. However, what if Shikamaru doesn't get into that situation? If he prevents Raikage from attacking, then that's even better than what Minato did.

    Naruto would have failed against Tobi as well... and unless he had Kyuubi's pure chakra (whether stolen or through cooperation), Raikage would have probably beaten him. Hell, if both fought, Naruto would halve probably lost, and if it weren't for Kakashi and Gai, Tobi would have warped Naruto away. So Naruto shouldn't become the hokage either for the same reasons Shikamaru can't.



    Quote Quote:
    ,Genius, when the skills aren’t enough to back it up, is moot, especially when dealing with the current adversary whose power is beyond ridiculous.
    Shikamaru doesn't need to be overpowered like Sasuke or Naruto though. He can do a lot more damage strategizing instead of Sasuke and Naruto trying to bulldoze through. Shikamaru, like Tsunade and to an extent Minato, isn't a front line fighter. That's Sasuke, Naruto, Kakashi, and Lee. Shikamaru is better as a support and someone who analyzes and concocts a plan, which a kage can do. He doesn't need to be supremely powerful either, especially when he has Sasuke, Naruto, and Kakashi willing to lend their strength.

    Minato is nowhere near as powerful, yet he was a hokage because he was useful, just as Shikamaru is useful. Minato's Hiraishin and sealing knowledge, as well as relation to a jinchuuriki, are what made him the hokage. Tsunade also isn't the offensive type; as a medic nin she's more of a support who keeps her team alive.



    Quote Quote:
    ,Shikamaru as a hokage candidate, in my own opinion, should be taken out of the picture. He just doesn’t fit the title. Konoha needs a powerful leader.
    Minato wasn't powerful, Tsunade isn't an offensive fighter. They still became teh hokage. Power is meaningless without intelligence.

    Quote Quote:
    ,If Sasuke becomes the hokage and Naruto gets the role like that of a Sage that influences villages (Jiraiya’s prophecy satisfied), that’s fine with me. But if he becomes hokage and Naruto is put on the sidelines, not just comfortable with it, of course from a Naruto fan’s view. After all, for me, Naruto has the best Requirements and picture for it.
    Naruto would not be on the sidelines though. And honestly, I don't see how Naruto can have the best requirements when intelligence and ability to make good decisions play a factor in being a good hokage.

    Quote Quote:
    Social aspects – Naruto
    Power – Naruto
    Hokage Relation – Naruto (son of Yondaime)
    Historical Heroic Picture – Naruto (defended the village, never did think of destroying Konoha)
    Title itself - Naruto

    ,Of course you have another bet and can pile up another list for your bet’s winning edge. But that’s my stand!
    Naruto did hate and resent the village though. We saw this when he confronted Daruto.

    And while Sasuke did think of destroying Konoha, he never did. The worst he did was kill Danzou and come close to killing Team 7, who were the ones going after him.



    Quote Quote:
    ,Doesn’t change the fact that Shikamaru survived with him on the show. Otherwise Shikamaru was eliminated already. Team 10 alone in that fight is helpless without Kakashi.
    Why not also acknowledge that Naruto survived because of Kakashi and Yamato? He needed two men to be saved when he was fighting Kakuzu and without them would have been killed.

  3. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    No. Against a high level ninja or should I say an abnormal level ninja, he's literally useless.

    Okay, so shikamaru did become a hokage after this war. And orochimaru is still trying to destroy the konoha. How do you expect shikamaru to stop orochimaru from murdering the entire konoha? Shadow no jutsu? His strategy? Is that even enough to stop the immortal orochimaru? No? Of course, his entire strategy are useless as long as a powerful ninja is concerned.

    Shikamaru's strategy is perfect for a fodder ninjas. That's all there is.
    I don't think defeating Orochimaru is mandatory to become hokage, look at the current one. So since that point is out I don't know what to add.
    Meh

  4. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    I don't think defeating Orochimaru is mandatory to become hokage, look at the current one. So since that point is out I don't know what to add.
    That's hokage's job to pretect the konoha. As you know, when orochimaru did attacked the konoha, hiruzen knows that he's no match to orochimaru. Even though the honoha had a thousand ninjas, all of them are useless to orochimaru and hiruzen knows that there's no one can stop him.

    Overall, it's the hokage's job to protect his people and the village for someone who's powerful enough to trash any of his ninjas.

    Just like I said, the hokage is the symbol of military power of the konoha. There's no other village who'll try to attack the konoha if their hokage is a freaking strong. Because it doesn't matter if they got a thousand/s of ninja who'll attack the konoha, if the konoha's hokage has the power to kill them all.

    Just look at the kumo. Raikage didn't get the byakugan in minato's time. Because he knows betraying the konoha is futile because of minato.

    So yea, shikamaru can't be consider as a military symbol of the konoha, he's weak and talentless. He can't do anything without his team, he may be genius, but his intelligence is useless in one on one fight. And his genius mind is talentless for techniques.

    ---------- Post added at 12:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    The Kyuubi can't harm him? It's the other way around completely. Minato is the one who couldn't do jackshit to the Kyuubi.

    Yeah, he'll die in a second. Which makes Minato who died in an hour a much superior individual. And the fact that it took him an hour to die just shows how awesome he is.



    Yeah, well. Sakura did that and better but everyone still underestimates her.

    Don't get me wrong, clearly Shikamaru is leagues below Minato in terms of fighting power. But Minato is even further below Shikamaru in terms of intelligence.
    Huh? Yea, yea, I understand your opinion. We're already done debating this stuff. So there's no need to argue about your opinion on shikamaru as more genius than minato.

    But anyway, I'm still curious on how the hell you got that kind of opinion. Maybe it's time for you to show me the awesome stuff about shikamaru on how the hell he's more genius than minato. Because technically', what the manga has shown is that minato is way more above than shikamaruo in intelligent department. Could you please enlighten me with those stuff? Thanks in advance btw.
    Last edited by marshall313; August 28, 2013 at 12:27 AM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Chess and shogi are not fundamentally games of strategy. They are games of tactics, won by gambits and strategems, lost by single mistakes (at least among good players). Strategy, rather, is about the long game, about supply, logistics, resilience to error, distilling rules, and breaking/rewriting them. (For a classic strategic board game, 19x19 Go is the game to play.)

    Shikamaru demonstrates this distinction well. While he is supposed to be strong strategically, all the strength he has demonstrated has been in the gambit. And when the gambits haven't worked? That's the thing. Most of the time, his gambits haven't worked terribly well.

    And this is the other thing about Shikamaru: why is he so angry at Sasuke? Why does he seem to lack even a scintilla of suspicion about the history of his own village, and what happened to the Uchiha? For someone who is supposed to be as smart as he is, where's the curiosity? Or does his laziness extend to the intellectual and moral as well?

    And in jutsu, he's a bit of a one-trick pony. (I mean, given that he likely doesn't have Lee's handicap, couldn't he have learned something more than his shadow-bind jutsus by now?)

    Of course, this means that if he does make hokage, he'll be in a class by himself.

  7. #21
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garvan View Post
    Chess and shogi are not fundamentally games of strategy. They are games of tactics, won by gambits and strategems, lost by single mistakes (at least among good players). Strategy, rather, is about the long game, about supply, logistics, resilience to error, distilling rules, and breaking/rewriting them. (For a classic strategic board game, 19x19 Go is the game to play.)

    Shikamaru demonstrates this distinction well. While he is supposed to be strong strategically, all the strength he has demonstrated has been in the gambit. And when the gambits haven't worked? That's the thing. Most of the time, his gambits haven't worked terribly well.

    And this is the other thing about Shikamaru: why is he so angry at Sasuke? Why does he seem to lack even a scintilla of suspicion about the history of his own village, and what happened to the Uchiha? For someone who is supposed to be as smart as he is, where's the curiosity? Or does his laziness extend to the intellectual and moral as well?

    And in jutsu, he's a bit of a one-trick pony. (I mean, given that he likely doesn't have Lee's handicap, couldn't he have learned something more than his shadow-bind jutsus by now?)

    Of course, this means that if he does make hokage, he'll be in a class by himself.
    Shikamaru has always been (like many of the young shinobi in this manga) thrust into situations where he is way over his head. While on a Team with Sakura and Naruto what did he do? Challenge 7 Chunnin Sound ninja at once, sacrificing himself for the benefit of the group.

    While fighting a superior shinobi in Temari (who was 4 years older than him mind you), he forced her to a draw by using the field to his advantage, something none of his contemporaries even attempted to do. (He also did this while fighting Kin, and he won that one).

    Then we have him and the other boys going after Sasuke. His leadership was probably never more obvious than at that moment.

    Then we have him fighting against the Immortals twice, with the second time him winning. (Granted, he foolishly went after them with a shitty team at first, but Kakashi helped him. Even still, he showed the ability to plan and move ahead).

    And now, we have him fighting against the most powerful forces known to man with little to no usuable weapons outside of Naruto, Bee and a few Jounin.

    Let's also not forget all the time he's been praised, which includes having Obito comment on his intelligence, something he hasn't done for anyone else.

    So before we go and bash him, let's just look at what kind of odds he's had to deal with before. You're asking him to produce amazing results without the necessary tools to do so.

    As for why Shikamaru is made at Sasuke, well gee let's run through a few things here. 1) Sasuke abandoned his village and put the lives of Shikamaru, Kiba, Neji, Chouji and Naruto at risk when he left the village BEFORE he knew about it's history. 2) He punched a hole through Naruto's chest, who happens to be one of Shikamaru's closest friends. 3) He joined up with Orochimaru and later Akatsuki, you know, the group responsible for Asuma, Shikamaru's teachers death, also the same group now responsible for his fathers death and the death of many comrades.

    Shikamaru has plenty of reason to be mad at Sasuke. And frankly, many of Sasuke decisions were unrelated to anything that had to do with the villages history, and thus he should be punished. Even though he was manipulated and damaged mentally and emotionally, Sasuke still chose to what he did. And thus Shikamaru doesn't need to know the why. Sasuke's crimes aren't the issue here, the issue is the Uchiha massecure and many other things related to the village. But Sasuke hasn't even hinted at that so why would Shikamaru be curious about that? BUT, Shikamaru has shown curiosity about Sasuke's motives he just hasn't acted on it yet because, ya know he's at war.

    As for him being a one trick pony, umm, what is Naruto? What is Minato? How about the entirety of the Konoha 11? Shikamaru's jutsu has many uses and he himself is hampered by having low stamina. This has been displayed multiple times. Granted, could he work on that? Yes, but it seemed he had somewhat during Part 2 when he went after Hidan in hand to hand combat.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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  9. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post

    Huh? Yea, yea, I understand your opinion. We're already done debating this stuff. So there's no need to argue about your opinion on shikamaru as more genius than minato.

    But anyway, I'm still curious on how the hell you got that kind of opinion. Maybe it's time for you to show me the awesome stuff about shikamaru on how the hell he's more genius than minato. Because technically', what the manga has shown is that minato is way more above than shikamaruo in intelligent department. Could you please enlighten me with those stuff? Thanks in advance btw.
    You need to understand that "genius" doesn't mean smart. At least not always. Minato is known as a genius due to his talent in Ninjutsu. Shikamaru is a genius for being smart. Heck, EVEN SUIGETSU was called a prodigy. Fucking Suigetsu Surely he's not as smart or strong as these two. But he's apparently a "genius" in the art of murder. So keep in mind, that Minato and Shika are two completely different geniuses in different areas. I'm surprised no one has brought that to your attention yet. So stop saying "this is more genius than that," because honestly, it sounds weird no matter how much I read it.

    Shikamaru and Minato are different. One is smarter, the other is stronger. It's not my opinion that Shikamaru is smarter, it's your opinion that Minato is smarter. Not sure how you even got that, he has yet to demonstrate any impressive intelligence feats.

    The manga by no means showed the bold part. It's actually showing Minato having an IQ possibly lower than his son...I'm just sayin'

  10. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    You need to understand that "genius" doesn't mean smart. At least not always. Minato is known as a genius due to his talent in Ninjutsu. Shikamaru is a genius for being smart. Heck, EVEN SUIGETSU was called a prodigy. Fucking Suigetsu Surely he's not as smart or strong as these two. But he's apparently a "genius" in the art of murder. So keep in mind, that Minato and Shika are two completely different geniuses in different areas. I'm surprised no one has brought that to your attention yet. So stop saying "this is more genius than that," because honestly, it sounds weird no matter how much I read it.

    Shikamaru and Minato are different. One is smarter, the other is stronger. It's not my opinion that Shikamaru is smarter, it's your opinion that Minato is smarter. Not sure how you even got that, he has yet to demonstrate any impressive intelligence feats.

    The manga by no means showed the bold part. It's actually showing Minato having an IQ possibly lower than his son...I'm just sayin'
    Huh? Shikamaru is genius for being smart? What's that?

    Genius = exceptional intellectual or creative power or other natural ability.
    Smart = having an intelligence.

    Is shikamaru a genius? No. He ain't creative nor he had other natural ability.
    Is shikamaru's smart? Yea, there's no doubt he's smart.

    I think it's kinda obvious that minato is the true genius and shikamaru is smart. That's exactly the reason why minato's brilliant mind was overflowing for talent for techniques while shikamaru is smart but at the same time his brilliant IQ/mind is talentless for techniques.

    And no. Minato isn't just genius in ninjutsu/sealing jutsu, he's also one hell of an strategist. The big difference between shikamaru's strategy and minato's strategy is that shikamaru's strategy is for his group while minato's strategy is for himself. The reason why shikamaru can solve his opponents secret and can create an strategy to defeat their enemy/ies is because his teamates are buying him some time to came up an strategy for their counter attack. While minato was fighting his opponent directly while analyzing his/their jutsu and he'll came up an strategy on how to defeat them.

    Shikamaru was leisurely making a plan for their counter attack and analyzing their opponent/s jutsu while being protected by his teamate to came up a plan.
    While minato has the ability to protect himself, analyze his opponent's jutsu, create an strategy/plan, and execute it directly. That's all in one.

    And yet you placed shikamaru above than minato?

    For being a smart or for being a genius or for being an intelligent, minato is way more above than shikamaru in that three categories. (Even though they're almost the same)

    And yea, minato and shikamaru are completely different geniuses. But, minato is more ahead of shikamaru in different or all areas. Shikamaru is just smart in creating an strategy, no more no less. I can't say he's genius in strategy because that would mean his strategy/tactics is an exceptional.

    But minato is genius in ninjutsu, genius in sealing jutsu, genius in strategy/tactics (yea, he's genius because of his exceptional and amazing strategy/tactics to defeat his enemy/is.) That's the difference between the two of them.

    They're completely different geniuses, but they aren't comparable at all.
    Last edited by marshall313; August 28, 2013 at 02:07 AM.

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  12. #24
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Huh? Shikamaru is genius for being smart? What's that?
    He's actually a "Super genius." His intellect is so far ahead of normal people, he's therefore a genius.

    Quote Quote:
    Genius = exceptional intellectual or creative power or other natural ability.
    Smart = having an intelligence.
    Definition of genius:

    1-A strong natural talent, aptitude, or inclination (Minato).

    2- A person who has an exceptionally high intelligence quotient, typically above 140 (Shikamaru).

    Please, don't give me this "Shikamaru is smart but not a genius." The Manga specifically names him as a "Super" genius. Emphasis on the "Super" with capital S.

    Quote Quote:
    I think it's kinda obvious that minato is the true genius and shikamaru is smart. That's exactly the reason why minato's brilliant mind was overflowing for talent for techniques while shikamaru is smart but at the same time his brilliant IQ/mind is talentless for techniques.
    That's why I said they are two different type of geniuses. Having a brilliant mind for techniques, doesn't mean you're smart. So far, the manga showed Minato to have mediocre intelligence.

    Quote Quote:
    And no. Minato isn't just genius in ninjutsu/sealing jutsu, he's also one hell of an strategist.

    For being a smart or for being a genius or for being an intelligent, minato is way more above than shikamaru in that three categories.

    But minato is genius in ninjutsu, genius in sealing jutsu, genius in strategy/tactics (yea, he's genius because of his exceptional and amazing strategy/tactics to defeat his enemy/is.)
    Can you please link me one amazing strategy Minato used? Just one.

    Minato's strategy look somewhat retarded compared to what Shikamaru did against Hidan and Kakuzu. He analyzed every action Hidan made, realized how his ability work and came up with over 200 plans, while using his "sixth sense" to chose the perfect one in few seconds. All while binding them with his shadow in a very stressing situation. Later on, he made a fool out of them by having Hidan stab himself (which resulted in killing Kakuzu once) and had him let his guard down which resulted in him almost losing his head. So he took out two Akatsuki members at once (though Kakuzu has several lives, but still count as a kill).

    Show me anything Minato did that comes even close to that. Just one thing.
    Last edited by KingOfNight; August 28, 2013 at 07:15 AM.

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  14. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    He's actually a "Super genius." His intellect is so far ahead of normal people, he's therefore a genius.



    Definition of genius:

    1-A strong natural talent, aptitude, or inclination (Minato).

    2- A person who has an exceptionally high intelligence quotient, typically above 140 (Shikamaru).

    Please, don't give me this "Shikamaru is smart but not a genius." The Manga specifically names him as a "Super" genius. Emphasis on the "Super" with capital S.



    That's why I said they are two different type of geniuses. Having a brilliant mind for techniques, doesn't mean you're smart. So far, the manga showed Minato to have mediocre intelligence.



    Can you please link me one amazing strategy Minato used? Just one.

    Minato's strategy look somewhat retarded compared to what Shikamaru did against Hidan and Kakuzu. He analyzed every action Hidan made, realized how his ability work and came up with over 200 plans, while using his "sixth sense" to chose the perfect one in few seconds. All while binding them with his shadow in a very stressing situation. Later on, He made a fool out of them by having Hidan stab himself (which resulted in killing Kakuzu once) and had him let his guard down which resulted in him almost losing his head. So he took out two Akatsuki members at once (though Kakuzu has several lives, but still count as a kill).

    Show me anything Minato did that comes even close to that. Just one thing.
    So you find it amazing for shikamaru who was able to create a strategy for hidan and kakuzu. But hey, he was able to create that for how many days? Or is it a week? His trap and his laboratory equipment was being came into play after he seen their jutsu. Is that amazing? No. Shikamaru's plan was destined to be a failure. After all the plan and the 200 ways of his strategy, he even reminded ino and Choji to review his strategy for 100 times. But holla, both kakuzu and hidan almost beaten their useless ass.

    After creating/devising his plan, his 200 ways of strategy/tactics are nothing but useless if kakashi weren't around. He's so proud of his brilliant mind and yet he's underestimating his opponents.

    His useless strategy becomes awesome because of kakashi. He was able to avenged asuma because of kakashi. He was able to defeat hidan because of his trap and kakashi. Kakuzu wasn't able to kick his useless ass is because of kakashi.

    And yet you find that amazing? Okay. That's your opinion after all.

    Of course, minato didn't comes even close to that. Why? Because minato isn't entirely as lowly as shikamaru. Because minato's opponent didn't last in a minute. So he weren't able to research and create a trap just to kill someone.

    Well, we've seen two or three fights of minato. And those two fights of him didn't last even in a minute. Raikage, bee and those iwa's ninjas didn't pose any threat to minato. So what's the point of using a strategy?

    Hmm, what about his fight against obito? The way he analyzed obito's unique ability, they way he hit him with rasengan, the way he stabbed him with his kunai and the way obito run away from minato, aren't that scenario is more awesome than shikamaru's boring fight? He solved obito's jutsu and kicked his ass by analyzing his strategy.

    Just like I said, shikamaru's strategy is just fit for a fodder. Based from his fight against hidan/kakuzu, his shadow jutsu and his strategy already becomes useless the moment kakuzu cancelledl his shadow. And shikamaru don't know anything on kakuzu's ability, and yet he's quite sure of his plan. His brilliant mind didn't came to analyzed that kakuzu and hidan are both members if akatsuki. He didn't know that his brilliant mind/shadow jutsu are useless to a high level ninja.

    ---------- Post added at 07:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:35 AM ----------

    The manga or is it asuma? Gosh. Super genius and yet he's a fodder? A super genius and yet he's talentless for ninjutsu? A super genius and yet he's useless. What the heck is that? Oh, maybe what you mean is that shikamaru is a super genius in shogi? Yea, after all, his entire strategy in the current war are nothing but a useless. And yet you dare to compared him to minato? That's not fair.

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  16. #26
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    So you find it amazing for shikamaru who was able to create a strategy for hidan and kakuzu. But hey, he was able to create that for how many days? Or is it a week? His trap and his laboratory equipment was being came into play after he seen their jutsu. Is that amazing? No. Shikamaru's plan was destined to be a failure. After all the plan and the 200 ways of his strategy, he even reminded ino and Choji to review his strategy for 100 times. But holla, both kakuzu and hidan almost beaten their useless ass.

    After creating/devising his plan, his 200 ways of strategy/tactics are nothing but useless if kakashi weren't around. He's so proud of his brilliant mind and yet he's underestimating his opponents
    Hardly matters what you think of his plans. He indeed fooled and killed two Akatsuki members at once. One of them died once and returned, while the other just needed some finishing off. When Minato failed at everything he did (by his own admission).

    Quote Quote:
    His useless strategy becomes awesome because of kakashi. He was able to avenged asuma because of kakashi. He was able to defeat hidan because of his trap and kakashi. Kakuzu wasn't able to kick his useless ass is because of kakashi.

    And yet you find that amazing? Okay. That's your opinion after all.
    That's just the point. He's not meant to be powerful on his own, he's a strategist for god sake. It's not an opinion, it's common sense. Strategists do strategies. They're not even meant to fight.

    Quote Quote:
    Of course, minato didn't comes even close to that. Why? Because minato isn't entirely as lowly as shikamaru. Because minato's opponent didn't last in a minute. So he weren't able to research and create a trap just to kill someone.

    Well, we've seen two or three fights of minato. And those two fights of him didn't last even in a minute. Raikage, bee and those iwa's ninjas didn't pose any threat to minato. So what's the point of using a strategy?
    So how did you come up with the idea that he's smarter than Shikamaru? We get it, he's stronger than Shikamaru and he finishes his battles quickly. But that still doesn't make him smart.

    Quote Quote:
    Hmm, what about his fight against obito? The way he analyzed obito's unique ability, they way he hit him with rasengan, the way he stabbed him with his kunai and the way obito run away from minato, aren't that scenario is more awesome than shikamaru's boring fight? He solved obito's jutsu and kicked his ass by analyzing his strategy.
    Oh, this is glorious. So how does stabbing someone and hitting them with a Rasengan makes you smart? Dude, what? More awesome than Shikamaru's boring fights? What does that have to do with anything? Intelligence isn't measured by how awesome your fights are. And again, Sakura analyzed Obito's Jutsu just fine and better than Minato. And she's no way near Shikamaru's level of intelligence.

    Quote Quote:
    Just like I said, shikamaru's strategy is just fit for a fodder. Based from his fight against hidan/kakuzu, his shadow jutsu and his strategy already becomes useless the moment kakuzu cancelledl his shadow. And shikamaru don't know anything on kakuzu's ability, and yet he's quite sure of his plan. His brilliant mind didn't came to analyzed that kakuzu and hidan are both members if akatsuki. He didn't know that his brilliant mind/shadow jutsu are useless to a high level ninja.
    It's funny that you say that, because Minato is only tough among fodders. Unlike the failure (don't look at me, it's Obito's idea of his master) who acts tough among fodders, Shikamaru actually had to fight people far stronger than him. And guess what? He killed two Akatsuki members at once thanks to his plans. And both of them were far stronger than him. But it's all about the brains. Brains, I tell you.
    Last edited by KingOfNight; August 28, 2013 at 08:03 AM.

  17. #27
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member naruto the best's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    I doubt he'd have been wounded at all. Again though, speculation - there's no way to tell if Minato would have caused damage or not. Bee pushing Raikage doesn't indicate there'd be damage; he'd be stupid not to push the Raikage out of the way. I think Bee saw Minato could have tagged Raikage, considering he anticipated Minato teleporting behind him.
    ,He pushed the Raikage to avoid the latter of being wounded, as simple as that. The panel I gave showed Bee’s tentacle was cut, which would have wounded Raikage had Bee not pushed him. Now come to think of this: If Bee didn’t have the right time to push Minato, Raikage would have been hit right? To think otherwise I believe is clear stupidity because that would mean Minato doesn’t even know how to hit a target who is clearly facing backwards and just centimeters away on his very own eyes! Now if he is hit, do you expect no wound damage at all? The key word there is wound. At least he could have clearly made it to Raikage if it weren’t exactly for Bee. That’s it. I actually believe it wouldn’t be enough to pull severe damage to the point of taking the Raikage down, considering his physical attributes. Just a wound. Not a kill. So Just acknowledge its clarity. Bee of course did that as a brother teammate to protect A.

    Quote Quote:
    No one else but Minato can dodge Raikage's fastest. However, what if Shikamaru doesn't get into that situation? If he prevents Raikage from attacking, then that's even better than what Minato did.
    ,Huh? The moment A charges there’s no stopping him from his insane speed, unless Shikamaru manages to bind him with his shadow first which is surely not happening as A’s speed is a heavenly tower compared to the shadow speed to contact. Seriously, no other way Shikamaru could have done better in the scene against them.

    Quote Quote:
    Naruto would have failed against Tobi as well... and unless he had Kyuubi's pure chakra (whether stolen or through cooperation), Raikage would have probably beaten him. Hell, if both fought, Naruto would halve probably lost, and if it weren't for Kakashi and Gai, Tobi would have warped Naruto away. So Naruto shouldn't become the hokage either for the same reasons Shikamaru can't.
    ,It’s just so amazing how you brought out Naruto in this vivid different context when we are on Minato and Shikamaru. Just because you didn’t see Shikamaru pulling it you then brought out Naruto. Silly.

    Quote Quote:
    Shikamaru doesn't need to be overpowered like Sasuke or Naruto though. He can do a lot more damage strategizing instead of Sasuke and Naruto trying to bulldoze through. Shikamaru, like Tsunade and to an extent Minato, isn't a front line fighter. That's Sasuke, Naruto, Kakashi, and Lee. Shikamaru is better as a support and someone who analyzes and concocts a plan, which a kage can do. He doesn't need to be supremely powerful either, especially when he has Sasuke, Naruto, and Kakashi willing to lend their strength.
    ,When you have a kingdom and have powerful subordinates, how great and convenient. And there come a time when all those powerful armies were smashed because there happens to be a stronger entity who managed to invade the area. And such innocents and all who belong to your kingdom keep yelling on the head’s help, yet you do not have the right offensive tools to satisfy your people and beat the asses of such powerful invader. How frustrating. Better to commit suicide in that case in my opinion lol. That’s how a powerful leader can do his JOB of protecting his citizens. Of course even when Naruto or Sasuke becomes the hokage, they wouldn’t be on the front lines to blow the heads of opponents. Let the supporting/assisting shinobis go first from ANBU and all. But if things become nasty and can no longer be handled with minions, then it’s time for the head to crush the plate. Hence, in general terms, it’s really better to have a powerful leader. Just fucking better. And Konoha should have it as one considered to be among those most powerful villages in existence.

    Quote Quote:
    Minato is nowhere near as powerful, yet he was a hokage because he was useful, just as Shikamaru is useful. Minato's Hiraishin and sealing knowledge, as well as relation to a jinchuuriki, are what made him the hokage. Tsunade also isn't the offensive type; as a medic nin she's more of a support who keeps her team alive.
    ,And my stand of protecting your kingdom above fits him. Managed to get rid of Kyuubi outside Konoha, which could have surely imposed further damage. At the same time bumped the masked man. Only a hokage level dude can do it, who is powerful, powerful enough to become a Konoha hero, which Shikamaru really falls short into. Look, I never meant to underestimate the guy as I salute his ingenuity, and I understand he doesn’t have the full force to back his genius up, but I’m making my current stand as his level is just nowhere in Minato generally, nor his general picture fits the hokage title. Plus, I find it hard to believe that some thought of him somehow pulling out a victory or competent jack 1-on-1 against those mentioned powerful kages. Well.

    Quote Quote:
    Minato wasn't powerful, Tsunade isn't an offensive fighter. They still became teh hokage. Power is meaningless without intelligence.
    ,I made my stand for Minato already. Tsunade is powerful, even insanely powerful. Not unless you have a weird jutsu, powerful kkg, or untraceable speed, you surely are gonna go hell with her.

    ,Wrong. A physically strong female Sannin as she is denotes already she’s an offensive fighter, even more evidenced with her fights against Orochimaru and Madara. Jiraiya would have been a better choice for the job actually, as he was even personally favored by the elders, but cute haired Jman didn’t want the position.

    ,Again intelligence without enough power is futile especially in dealing with the likes of the current troublemakers. As someone as powerful as Obito or Madara would invade, there must be of the same opposing force to measure the tide up.

    ,Regarding Naruto, as people continuously degrade him in the intelligence department, we've seen how smart can he become given with difficult circumstances. He has the right tools for the title.
    Quote Quote:

    Naruto would not be on the sidelines though. And honestly, I don't see how Naruto can have the best requirements when intelligence and ability to make good decisions play a factor in being a good hokage.
    ,That’s one thing in consideration though. But even then I don’t see Naruto not being able to pull good decisions, considering he is used to understanding people’s hearts, which is actually the most important. Naruto, when the situation demands it, I believe can rightfully make decisions suitable to circumstances. Sakura even admitted Naruto’s resolve is better than her. Kakashi himself even approves him. Besides, Naruto made a very good decision of putting himself on the bright side, when he could have turned otherwise because of people’s mistreatment.


    Quote Quote:
    Naruto did hate and resent the village though. We saw this when he confronted Daruto.
    ,That was his dark half hiding inside him. Made evident only during his training, and successfully beat it though. He really could have turned like Madara or Obito, but he loves his village so much he wants to be its leader, and be recognized by everyone thanks to his experiences and all that he currently has the guts to face the present.


    Quote Quote:
    And while Sasuke did think of destroying Konoha, he never did. The worst he did was kill Danzou and come close to killing Team 7, who were the ones going after him.
    ,That at least sets aside Sasuke from Naruto as to the historical picture I described.


    Quote Quote:
    Why not also acknowledge that Naruto survived because of Kakashi and Yamato? He needed two men to be saved when he was fighting Kakuzu and without them would have been killed.
    ,Doesn’t change the fact that Naruto murdered a full-bulled Kakuzu, which Shikamaru couldn’t have done even if you put him on that same scenario, let alone Hidan’s case.
    Last edited by naruto the best; August 28, 2013 at 10:19 AM.

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  19. #28
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by naruto the best View Post
    ,He pushed the Raikage to avoid the latter of being wounded, as simple as that. The panel I gave showed Bee’s tentacle was cut, which would have wounded Raikage had Bee not pushed him. Now come to think of this: If Bee didn’t have the right time to push Minato, Raikage would have been hit right? To think otherwise I believe is clear stupidity because that would mean Minato doesn’t even know how to hit a target who is clearly facing backwards and just centimeters away on his very own eyes! Now if he is hit, do you expect no wound damage at all? The key word there is wound. At least he could have clearly made it to Raikage if it weren’t exactly for Bee. That’s it. I actually believe it wouldn’t be enough to pull severe damage to the point of taking the Raikage down, considering his physical attributes. Just a wound. Not a kill. So Just acknowledge its clarity. Bee of course did that as a brother teammate to protect A.
    Or, he pushed Raikage to avoid him being tagged or be hit with a seal as well. Just because Bee's tentacle was cut doesn't mean A would have been damaged. Sasuke managed to cut off Bee's tentacle with his chidori shaped into a sword, but his chidori infused sword merely bounced off A's back.

    Considering his defense, it's very much possible to believe Minato would not have been able to damage A at all. But yes, I never said Minato wouldn't have been able to touch A if it weren't for Bee, just that it's possible he would have not been able to damage A regardless of the power of his stab. Plus, given Minato's ability to tag things on the fly, he could have also tagged A; he managed to tag Bee's tentacle that came out of nowhere.



    Quote Quote:
    ,Huh? The moment A charges there’s no stopping him from his insane speed, unless Shikamaru manages to bind him with his shadow first which is surely not happening as A’s speed is a heavenly tower compared to the shadow speed to contact. Seriously, no other way Shikamaru could have done better in the scene against them.
    But A has to charge first. Shikamaru could find a way to bind A before he even realizes it, especially if like Minato he has support. And let's be fair... no one but Minato or any other fast Sharingan user could have done anything against A. Even Naruto and Sasuke would have needed Kyuubi's chakra/Susano'o to even handle A's speed.

    Tsunade and apparently Hiruzen would have been obliterated by A's speed, yet they're still or were still made hokage.



    Quote Quote:
    ,It’s just so amazing how you brought out Naruto in this vivid different context when we are on Minato and Shikamaru. Just because you didn’t see Shikamaru pulling it you then brought out Naruto. Silly.
    I'm using your logic here. Naruto and Sasuke can't become hokage for the same reasons Shikamaru can't. If Naruto can't get into Kyuubi mode quickly, or if Sasuke can't get the Susano'o up, they'd both lose to A, and both couldn't even do anything to Tobi. Also from your logic, Minato is the ONLY one suitable to become a hokage since he has the tools to deal with almost any kind of shinobi, as long as he's able to use Hiraishin.

    I don't see how it's silly I brought out Naruto though. Or if I bring out others. My point is that no one else has the tools that Minato had to take on Tobi and A... yet does that mean none of them should be any kind of kage?



    Quote Quote:
    ,When you have a kingdom and have powerful subordinates, how great and convenient. And there come a time when all those powerful armies were smashed because there happens to be a stronger entity who managed to invade the area. And such innocents and all who belong to your kingdom keep yelling on the head’s help, yet you do not have the right offensive tools to satisfy your people and beat the asses of such powerful invader. How frustrating. Better to commit suicide in that case in my opinion lol. That’s how a powerful leader can do his JOB of protecting his citizens. Of course even when Naruto or Sasuke becomes the hokage, they wouldn’t be on the front lines to blow the heads of opponents. Let the supporting/assisting shinobis go first from ANBU and all. But if things become nasty and can no longer be handled with minions, then it’s time for the head to crush the plate. Hence, in general terms, it’s really better to have a powerful leader. Just fucking better. And Konoha should have it as one considered to be among those most powerful villages in existence.
    Just do what Tsunade did when Pain invaded Konoha and rely on Naruto while providing support. Shikamaru does have the right offensive tools... we don't know if he could or couldn't protect the village.

    Says who? This war is basically proof that Naruto would go to the front line no matter what to protect others, which is why he escaped from teh cave and got involved in the war. Sasuke would as well, to protect the village.

    Shikamaru may not be powerful in the traditional sense, but he's powerful enough. If it weren't for him, Kakashi and Team 10 would have likely lost to Hidan and Kakuzu. Shikamaru's plan saved Kakashi from Kakuzu and managed to lure Hidan off guard. Even against that Sound ninja and Temari, Shikamaru showed his intelligence and ability to use surrounding, which we still rarely ever see. If power mattered, then Shikamaru would not have been the first one to become chuunin.. or even chuunin at all. Naruto would have been the first to be selected since he showed not only power and ability to trick enemies, but he also showed iron will and one hell of a durability.



    Quote Quote:
    ,And my stand of protecting your kingdom above fits him. Managed to get rid of Kyuubi outside Konoha, which could have surely imposed further damage. At the same time bumped the masked man. Only a hokage level dude can do it, who is powerful, powerful enough to become a Konoha hero, which Shikamaru really falls short into. Look, I never meant to underestimate the guy as I salute his ingenuity, and I understand he doesn’t have the full force to back his genius up, but I’m making my current stand as his level is just nowhere in Minato generally, nor his general picture fits the hokage title. Plus, I find it hard to believe that some thought of him somehow pulling out a victory or competent jack 1-on-1 against those mentioned powerful kages. Well.
    Yeah, Minato is actually one of the best protectors, but he still lacks power. Even a rasengan couldn't keep Tobi down at all, he still managed to get back up. It doesn't take a hokage level shinobi to fight Tobi... or to teleport the Kyuubi out. It's all about the right tool, which both MInato and Shikamaru have.

    So, if Shikamaru does learn HIraishin then he'll be on or very close to Minato's level. According to our debate, Hiraishin is basically what makes Minato on a higher level. So if Shikamaru does somehow learn Hiraishin, then he'll be on Minato's level and thus be able to pull out a victory against aforementioned powerful kage. Or close to it anyway.



    Quote Quote:
    ,I made my stand for Minato already. Tsunade is powerful, even insanely powerful. Not unless you have a weird jutsu, powerful kkg, or untraceable speed, you surely are gonna go hell with her.
    She is powerful, but she is not a fighter. She even made up a rule that all medic ninjas must be protected and not fight at all. It also seems that she can't do much offensively either unless she finds a way to hit her opponents, since she seems to get hurt a lot. Tsunade has also not been impressive at all, apart from punching the lights out of Orochimaru. Yet she's still the hokage.

    Against Shikamaru, you'd have to either be smarter than him or be hella fast and take him out as soon as possible. Otherwise with Naruto or anyone powerful, Shikamaru can observe and think of strategies and even involve himself in a fight. Tsunade cannot involve herself without risks, and she could observe, but she probably wouldn't be as good as Shikamaru.

    Quote Quote:
    ,Wrong. A physically strong female Sannin as she is denotes already she’s an offensive fighter, even more evidenced with her fights against Orochimaru and Madara. Jiraiya would have been a better choice for the job actually, as he was even personally favored by the elders, but cute haired Jman didn’t want the position.
    But Madara left the fight with Tsunade cut in half, while Orochimaru was still taking Tsunade's blows like nothing. She also doesn't fight without using her Mitotic Regeneration. My statements are based on what she said to Madara before she started going on the offensive. She's the only exception to medic ninjas not fighting BECAUSE of Mitotic Regeneration, which comes at a risk. If she fails to take out the enemies, which she has many times, then she faints from exhaustion.

    Quote Quote:
    ,Again intelligence without enough power is futile especially in dealing with the likes of the current troublemakers. As someone as powerful as Obito or Madara would invade, there must be of the same opposing force to measure the tide up.
    True, but that's where Naruto and Sasuke, along with many others come in. Minato did not need to be the hokage to deal with Tobi and the Kyuubi... it just happens he was the hokage. Even as a jounin or chuunin, Minato could have dealt with both and achieve the same results he did, while Hiruzen could have either laid back or joined the fight against the Kyuubi or Tobi.

    Though interesting thing is that hokage have been on missions or participated in wars, like Tobirama, the Third Raikage, and possibly Hashirama. It'd be pretty stupid not to allow Minato to go on missions, all things considered.

    Quote Quote:
    ,Regarding Naruto, as people continuously degrade him in the intelligence department, we've seen how smart can he become given with difficult circumstances. He has the right tools for the title.
    He does not. Can he make the right decisions? What if he says "no need for anyone to go on missions, I can do it all!!!!11" Hiruzen wasn't able to do what was necessary, and look at what happened. Danzou was too extreme, and look at what happened. Naruto would have to be more like Tobirama, minus the bias/prejudice against a clan. I don't see Naruto being that kind of a guy, he'd be more like Hiruzen. Too gentle to do what's necessary and too emotional to make the right decisions.


    Quote Quote:
    ,That’s one thing in consideration though. But even then I don’t see Naruto not being able to pull good decisions, considering he is used to understanding people’s hearts, which is actually the most important. Naruto, when the situation demands it, I believe can rightfully make decisions suitable to circumstances. Sakura even admitted Naruto’s resolve is better than her. Kakashi himself even approves him. Besides, Naruto made a very good decision of putting himself on the bright side, when he could have turned otherwise because of people’s mistreatment.
    Has nothing to do with understanding people's hearts, but with making actual decisions that can affect the village. Sakura was talking about Naruto's unwillingness to give up regardless of what happens and his confidence, not his decision making skills.

    That wasn't a decision though, that was because of Iruka and then Team 7 reaching out to him and forming a bond. If it weren't for Iruka or Team 7, Naruto could have turned evil. Much earlier, even, if people were actively trying to kill him.




    Quote Quote:
    ,That was his dark half hiding inside him. Made evident only during his training, and successfully beat it though. He really could have turned like Madara or Obito, but he loves his village so much he wants to be its leader, and be recognized by everyone thanks to his experiences and all that he currently has the guts to face the present.
    Dark half that still thinks what Naruto thinks. If I recall, Naruto even admitted he resented the village for how they treated him. He also stated that if not for the bonds he made, he would have been the one who attacked Konoha or hated it, much like Gaara. He wanted to be the leader ONLY for respect and recognition at first, which then changed to wanting to protect the people he loves. He can face the present because of his shitty childhood and the people with him, not because Naruto made the right decisions.

    Well, not just because of that anyway, since Naruto decided not to give up and persevere.





    Quote Quote:
    ,Doesn’t change the fact that Naruto murdered a full-bulled Kakuzu, which Shikamaru couldn’t have done even if you put him on that same scenario, let alone Hidan’s case.
    He did not, though he might as well have. Shikamaru is not the offensive type, he's more of a support type. While may not have been able to kill Kakuzu the way Naruto did, he still was able to make Kakuzu lose one heart without even being there.

    You said Shikamaru would have died if not for Kakashi though. I'm saying Naruto would have died if not for Kakashi and Yamato.

  20. #29
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member naruto the best's Avatar
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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Or, he pushed Raikage to avoid him being tagged or be hit with a seal as well. Just because Bee's tentacle was cut doesn't mean A would have been damaged. Sasuke managed to cut off Bee's tentacle with his chidori shaped into a sword, but his chidori infused sword merely bounced off A's back.

    Considering his defense, it's very much possible to believe Minato would not have been able to damage A at all. But yes, I never said Minato wouldn't have been able to touch A if it weren't for Bee, just that it's possible he would have not been able to damage A regardless of the power of his stab. Plus, given Minato's ability to tag things on the fly, he could have also tagged A; he managed to tag Bee's tentacle that came out of nowhere.
    ,Of course he could have tagged A. But that kunai was obviously meant for the offensive and did cut Bee’s tail. And A seems to be immune to Raiton techniques. I’m still seeing Minato wounding him, though not to put him down of course. I guess we really see things differently in this area, so better to agree to disagree here.


    Quote Quote:
    But A has to charge first. Shikamaru could find a way to bind A before he even realizes it, especially if like Minato he has support. And let's be fair... no one but Minato or any other fast Sharingan user could have done anything against A. Even Naruto and Sasuke would have needed Kyuubi's chakra/Susano'o to even handle A's speed.

    Tsunade and apparently Hiruzen would have been obliterated by A's speed, yet they're still or were still made hokage.
    ,I’ve already said Shikamaru’s shadow would be very obvious and A’s speed is far greater than his shadow to contact. And I’m being fair really. Since we have Minato and Shikamaru on the discussion plate and some like to take Shikamaru on a higher board he seems lacking, and some comparison is scored into, I’m then giving direct situations to show the difference. That’s it. That’s just an exclusive context I was writing about the two. And I’m right on it. Now that you have open another bin of beans for the other characters, okay fine. Naruto and Sasuke had already dealt with A’s speed and survived given their arsenal, and the battle condition must be considered with it. Tsunade, even hit, would still survive it with her medical and regeneration prowess. And Hiruzen can do the mud substitution technique (when got by bitten by Orochimaru) to survive A’s attack.

    Quote Quote:
    I'm using your logic here. Naruto and Sasuke can't become hokage for the same reasons Shikamaru can't. If Naruto can't get into Kyuubi mode quickly, or if Sasuke can't get the Susano'o up, they'd both lose to A, and both couldn't even do anything to Tobi. Also from your logic, Minato is the ONLY one suitable to become a hokage since he has the tools to deal with almost any kind of shinobi, as long as he's able to use Hiraishin.

    I don't see how it's silly I brought out Naruto though. Or if I bring out others. My point is that no one else has the tools that Minato had to take on Tobi and A... yet does that mean none of them should be any kind of kage?
    ,Fair enough. Naruto and Sasuke have the tools to handle A, and both have the tools to handle Tobi. Sasuke even survived A’s punch lol, and Naruto broke through Tobi’s mask. They have the tools, but just different, unlike Shikamaru. A leader should be a symbol of power, and Naruto and Sasuke have it. That’s the point.

    Quote Quote:
    Just do what Tsunade did when Pain invaded Konoha and rely on Naruto while providing support. Shikamaru does have the right offensive tools... we don't know if he could or couldn't protect the village.
    ,And you forgot that Tsunade already gave her everything to save everyone on the village from that Pain’s destructive jutsu. She had the first step of protecting her citizens before Naruto came out. She even stepped out to face Pain even with that condition. But for plot sake Naruto has to shine. For me if it weren’t for her condition, that she somehow managed to recover just as that time when Hinata butt in, she could have performed better than Hinata considering her abilities, even hit Tendo Pain hard(Hinata managed to hit him slightly), and could have broken him with her punch that even Madara’s susanoo was somehow cracked, yet Oodama rasenagn didn’t do shit on that. And that rasengan blows Tendo Pain. Of course our opinions may differ about this set-up. The overall point is, Tsunade,Naruto and Sasuke have the power, that made them a light on the kage’s spot.

    Quote Quote:
    Says who? This war is basically proof that Naruto would go to the front line no matter what to protect others, which is why he escaped from teh cave and got involved in the war. Sasuke would as well, to protect the village.
    ,Simply because this one is different. His power is needed. Just like Gaara’s case when Deidara entered Sand’s vicinity. You would surely go when needed, especially if you see your subordinates don’t have the right tools to do it. That’s what I’m saying. What if your members’ power is not enough on the situation, of course you have to get your ass in as the leader of the place, which can be very futile if you don’t have the right gun to shot. This is the point. Hokage should have his own means to protect the village citizens in case things go awry. Perfect for Tsunade’s situation of healing her people from Konoha invasion. Perfect for Minato’s stance against the Kyuubi Invasion and Tobi. One thing that can be argued though was Hiruzen’s show against Orochimaru. But even then he managed to seal his hands and orochimaru commented he would have been beaten if the old man was 10 years younger. Pretty speaks about Hiruzen’s power prime. And with that performance Orochimaru and his minions retreated. Well against the previous kages and Orochimaru himself that was one helluva job.

    Quote Quote:
    Shikamaru may not be powerful in the traditional sense, but he's powerful enough. If it weren't for him, Kakashi and Team 10 would have likely lost to Hidan and Kakuzu. Shikamaru's plan saved Kakashi from Kakuzu and managed to lure Hidan off guard. Even against that Sound ninja and Temari, Shikamaru showed his intelligence and ability to use surrounding, which we still rarely ever see. If power mattered, then Shikamaru would not have been the first one to become chuunin.. or even chuunin at all. Naruto would have been the first to be selected since he showed not only power and ability to trick enemies, but he also showed iron will and one hell of a durability.
    ,On the very first plan they would have been taken out already thanks to Kakashi, hence the copy ninja became their pillar in continuing that fight. Even then it was only Hidan whom he fully managed to blitz. Yeah I salute Shikamaru’s genius. I know his ingenuity enough in this manga that I included him in my top genius list, but again he doesn’t fit the hokage picture. The ruling for chuunin rankings, of which he reigned, doesn’t apply on hokage selection either.

    Quote Quote:
    Yeah, Minato is actually one of the best protectors, but he still lacks power. Even a rasengan couldn't keep Tobi down at all, he still managed to get back up. It doesn't take a hokage level shinobi to fight Tobi... or to teleport the Kyuubi out. It's all about the right tool, which both MInato and Shikamaru have.

    So, if Shikamaru does learn HIraishin then he'll be on or very close to Minato's level. According to our debate, Hiraishin is basically what makes Minato on a higher level. So if Shikamaru does somehow learn Hiraishin, then he'll be on Minato's level and thus be able to pull out a victory against aforementioned powerful kage. Or close to it anyway.
    ,Nope. Never did I mention that. Minato has good shunshin reflexes apart from hiraishin, and has an A-rank technique termed rasengan. If Shikamaru has those things, then no doubt he’s a very good kage candidate. I would never deny it in that case. But sadly he doesn’t have it. So…

    Quote Quote:
    She is powerful, but she is not a fighter. She even made up a rule that all medic ninjas must be protected and not fight at all. It also seems that she can't do much offensively either unless she finds a way to hit her opponents, since she seems to get hurt a lot. Tsunade has also not been impressive at all, apart from punching the lights out of Orochimaru. Yet she's still the hokage.
    ,She is a legendary Sannin who survived alongside with the likes of Orochimaru and Jiraiya,and the only one to possess mitotic regeneration. Jiraiya wanted her leadership. She has what it takes to become a kage. Plus, she’s the granddaughter of Shondaime - historical picture as I tell.

    Quote Quote:
    Against Shikamaru, you'd have to either be smarter than him or be hella fast and take him out as soon as possible. Otherwise with Naruto or anyone powerful, Shikamaru can observe and think of strategies and even involve himself in a fight. Tsunade cannot involve herself without risks, and she could observe, but she probably wouldn't be as good as Shikamaru.
    ,Shikamaru cannot take risks of being attacked, as he doesn’t have techniques like MR to support(its risk is better than late). Sums up the difference. And both can involve themselves in a fight. And ofc Shikamaru has more good observational skill, but again his power doesn’t fit the kage picture.

    Quote Quote:
    But Madara left the fight with Tsunade cut in half, while Orochimaru was still taking Tsunade's blows like nothing. She also doesn't fight without using her Mitotic Regeneration. My statements are based on what she said to Madara before she started going on the offensive. She's the only exception to medic ninjas not fighting BECAUSE of Mitotic Regeneration, which comes at a risk. If she fails to take out the enemies, which she has many times, then she faints from exhaustion.
    ,Even from this she still had enough reservoir to come out though.

    Quote Quote:
    True, but that's where Naruto and Sasuke, along with many others come in. Minato did not need to be the hokage to deal with Tobi and the Kyuubi... it just happens he was the hokage. Even as a jounin or chuunin, Minato could have dealt with both and achieve the same results he did, while Hiruzen could have either laid back or joined the fight against the Kyuubi or Tobi.
    ,That’s why he fits the kage picture, unlike Shikamaru.

    Quote Quote:
    Though interesting thing is that hokage have been on missions or participated in wars, like Tobirama, the Third Raikage, and possibly Hashirama. It'd be pretty stupid not to allow Minato to go on missions, all things considered.
    ,People were signaled to vacate the area immediately once Minato is seen. That’s an impact of a kage. If Naruto becomes the kage, then one glance on him on the future would cause tremble and running. That should be the impact, fro Konoha’s better picture.


    Quote Quote:
    He does not. Can he make the right decisions? What if he says "no need for anyone to go on missions, I can do it all!!!!11" Hiruzen wasn't able to do what was necessary, and look at what happened. Danzou was too extreme, and look at what happened. Naruto would have to be more like Tobirama, minus the bias/prejudice against a clan. I don't see Naruto being that kind of a guy, he'd be more like Hiruzen. Too gentle to do what's necessary and too emotional to make the right decisions.



    Has nothing to do with understanding people's hearts, but with making actual decisions that can affect the village. Sakura was talking about Naruto's unwillingness to give up regardless of what happens and his confidence, not his decision making skills.
    ,Now you’ve missed it. It has all have to do with understanding each other. The reason why ninja villages before continuously do shit was because they seem to be lacking on it. Besides if Naruto becomes the hokage, Kakashi and Shikamaru are there for suggestions for better decision-making. That’s a good job for Shikamaru, an intelligent assistant, making his ‘support role’ substantiated. Besides we’ve seen Naruto do his thing when the situation demands it, so I believe he can just handle things properly.

    Quote Quote:
    That wasn't a decision though, that was because of Iruka and then Team 7 reaching out to him and forming a bond. If it weren't for Iruka or Team 7, Naruto could have turned evil. Much earlier, even, if people were actively trying to kill him.
    ,Good with the bonds, but many times we saw Naruto inspired of the hokage title. Though there was a chance really of turning evil though, it’s a given, but I don’t see him finally turning on it, especially when his goal for the kage position since childhood is more like an obsession, and his philosophy is perseverance and all.

    Quote Quote:
    Dark half that still thinks what Naruto thinks. If I recall, Naruto even admitted he resented the village for how they treated him. He also stated that if not for the bonds he made, he would have been the one who attacked Konoha or hated it, much like Gaara. He wanted to be the leader ONLY for respect and recognition at first, which then changed to wanting to protect the people he loves. He can face the present because of his shitty childhood and the people with him, not because Naruto made the right decisions.

    Well, not just because of that anyway, since Naruto decided not to give up and persevere.
    ,Again there’s a chance of turning to the other side. But with his personality he made the ‘right decision’ on a very personal level. No matter how you look at it, that’s still a very good decision despite his story. He made right decisions, sometimes he also made mistakes, just like other people. Normal as it is.

    Quote Quote:
    He did not, though he might as well have. Shikamaru is not the offensive type, he's more of a support type. While may not have been able to kill Kakuzu the way Naruto did, he still was able to make Kakuzu lose one heart without even being there.

    You said Shikamaru would have died if not for Kakashi though. I'm saying Naruto would have died if not for Kakashi and Yamato.
    ,Fair. Then Naruto blew Kakuzu that Shikamaru would surely not be able to if ever he came back in that scene. I doubt he or the others could have done something though to murder Kakuzu that time. Sums up the difference again.

    ,Look I’ve reached my limit in this subject. My whole point is, Shikamaru doesn’t fit the kage position because of the reasons I mentioned already. And I already gave my opinion about the Sasuke-Naruto rivalry. We’ll just go in circles if we continue. You can reply for good. Thanks for the great opinion and have a nice day!
    Last edited by naruto the best; August 29, 2013 at 01:35 AM.

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    Re: Should Sasuke be Hokage or even a Hokage candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Doesn't need any preparation? Yea, but that's only for any fodder. Shikamaru's shadows is useless for the likes of raikage, gaara, orochimaru or any other elite and high level ninja. His shadow jutsu is a fodder jutsu that fit to a fodder ninjas. You've been overestimating shikamaru far too much. Comparing him for the likes of minato and hiruzen is really ridiculous and bias as hell.
    Except that's not true, because it was incredibly useful against two Akatsuki members, elite and high level opponents. Heck, it was even useful against Obito. So it's not overestimation when the series has shown it. And it's only bias if you presume Minato and Sarutobi greatest doesn't lie in their genius.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    No. The strongest his opponent is, the more shikamaru become a useless. It doesn't matter if he can stop gaara's movement with his shadow, but gaara's ultimate defense will gonna kick his useless ass instantly.

    And the key word is ''catches''. So far, shikamaru isn't good in that department. Remember, if a lowly root ninja, which is sai, by the way, can easily trashed shikamaru's shadow, then a ninja above than sai could easily trash that too. If shikamaru can't catch sai's shadow, then how do you expect him to catch a high level ninja's shadow?
    Gaara's ultimate defense isn't offensive. It may protect him, but it wouldn't be capable of attacking Shikamaru.

    So far? When has Shikamaru had any real trouble catching anyone? And as been mentioned, he has already shown the ability to catch several high-ranking ninjas, so that's a flawed argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    No. It takes a day or two for shikamaru to set up those trap. Don't tell me shikamaru has the ability to dig a hole in an instant. And the fact that if kakashi wasn't there, this useless trio would be dead.
    The hole was the final trap, what about the traps before it, like the explosive trick first used against Hidan and Kakuzu, and the one involving the explosive tags. Aside from the fact that Shikamaru also saved Kakashi, negating that, how is being helped an issue against him being Hokage? I can easily point to the fact that both Sarutobi (twice during the Kyuubi attack) and Minato (during the Kyuubi attack and in countering the current Obito's attack) have both been helped in dangerous sitautions. So if they can be aided, while is it a point against Shikamaru?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Copied isn't an exact word. Because the manga clearly said he invented it. And no, you failed to analyzed that raikage thanks bee. That alone is enough that minato can harm him. And as you know, raikage said that minato as unsurpassed. Maybe that's the reason for kicking his ass together with his raiton shield by minato. There's no other reason why raikage said those word, as a prideful raikage as him, isn't that as an obvious that his raiton shield isn't enough to protect him for the likes of minato?

    No. Hidan and kakuzu aren't enough to make minato run for his money. They aren't capable to do that. There's no other ninja who pose a threat to minato when he's still alive. If the freaking kyubi can't harm minato, do you expect those duo can? Then you must be out of your mind.

    Okay, what about shikamaru will fight the kyubi to protect the konoha. Can he do it? No. He'll die with just a second.

    The thing is, minato can trash anyone of shikamaru's opponent so far, whereas shikamaru can't do a thing,p and he's a freaking useless to minato's opponent. That's absolutely a fact. So stop comparing shikamaru to minato, because they're not a comparable at all, it's ridiculous and nonsense.
    Copied is the right word. The series makes it clear he based it off the Bijuu Blast. Minato creating it doesn't change that. It's the same situation as how the Sandaime Kazekage copied the Ichibi's sand ability and created a new Bloodline Limit. And no, Ee thanking Kirabi doesn't mean he would have been hurt. We've seen Edo Itachi thank Sasuke for a save, despite the fact that he wasn't actually capable of being killed. And Ee was shown a caring, loving brother. There's no reason he wouldn't have thanked Kirabi regardless.

    Of course they are. Minato would have no way to hurt them, much less fight them, at least without giving up his own life in exchange. Also, you seem to have forgotten that the Kyuubi did indeed harm Minato, so don't know what that was suppose to prove. And the only Hokage that could go face to face with the Kyuubi is Hashirama. None of the other Hokages have the actual means to fight the Kyuubi. So that doesn't discount Shikamaru from becoming one either.

    Neither of those are facts at all. In fact, given both Sarutobi and Minato's current showing, arguing that they would be less useless just doesn't work.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Oh? Really? Okay, that's your opinion after all,

    Well, the manga just shown two fights of minato. And when he fought obito, minato at that time shows he's no doubt a freaking genius of all genius, why?

    Well, itachi, for all his life, he can't even solve the mystery about obito's power, that's the reason why he used a last ditch effort to kill him through sasuke, so that he can caught him off guard. But sad to say, he failed.

    For sasuke, he already fought/seen obito's jutsu for two times already. And yet he's still shocked on what the hell is that jutsu.

    See that? With those three ninja's, only minato was the one who solved obito's jutsu in an instant. And yet you're underestimating him? Gosh,
    That's not an opinion. We saw Shikamaru with a scroll out ready to counter Kakuzu's attack, and he did save Kakashi.

    First off, Minato didn't solve the mystery of Obito's ability. Secondly, there's nothing suggesting that Itachi hadn't figured out Obito's ability. Minato figured it out on the third time, so Sasuke not on the second isn't a problem. And third, you seem to be forgetting that Sakura and Danzo's guards figured it out too, and on the first try. So there goes that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by naruto the best View Post
    ,Where is faster? Shikamaru extending his shadow or Minato throwing a kunai to reach the desired target? Not to mention Hiraishin Level II lol.
    Shikamaru's shadow has been shown plenty fast, and throwing a kunai is not a speedy action.

    Quote Originally Posted by naruto the best View Post
    Gaara was seen to be waving his hands when controlling huge sand tactics, but it can take offense and defense at short range without him having to move his hands, many times we saw already. Gaara’s sand will just take the offensive and disturb him, thus Shikamaru no longer have the shadow jutsu control as he has to maintain his position while doing it. Moot.

    ,If we really consider one on one scenario here unlike the first setting with Hidan and Kakuzu where we saw Shikamaru stealthing over, I don’t see the two powerful kages Mei and oonoki falling for the obvious shadow trick, even more so with Oonoki since he can fly. Mei can actually just activate instantly his corrosion technique and Shikamaru is done. I’m giving Shikamaru at least a chance with battle preparations, but without it it’s zero win for him, really.
    Which is why I said "somewhat". And Gaara's sand doesn't do that on it's own. Nor would it disturb Shikmaru's usage of his ability. Shikamaru can move and run while still using his shadow to hold someone.

    What do you mean? Aside from his fight with Kin during the Chuunin Exam, Shikamaru has always caught his opponent using stealthy means, normally before showing himself. Even when he's face to face with his opponent, he normally doesn't go right at them, unless it's part of some bigger plan. And unless Mei and Onoki already have their techniques going, they're not gonna be able to activate them once caught.

    Quote Originally Posted by naruto the best View Post
    It took him days to set it up. Rikodou what’s happening to you? No offense you know, but you’re actually making the guy overrated which seems to cloud your objective assessment lol.
    Days? Can you please show me where it was said it took him days? Now I know Team Ten were searching for the duo for a few days, but that's not the same as it taking days to set up his plan. The only part of the plan that would have taken any time would have been digging the hole, and given that he had Kakashi for that, I serious doubt it took any real length of time. The rest of it, the trick with the kunai and the explosive notes, wouldn't have taken more then a few moments.

    Quote Originally Posted by naruto the best View Post
    He created it. That’s the point, which disproves your claim. A would have been wounded as we did see Minato was able to cut Bee’s tail thanks to it, which saved A by pushing him. Why did you refer to that advice when I am referring to the battle scene which obviously cannot be displayed by Shikamaru? That alone speaks you should stop overrating him. And I did refer to A and Bee about that offense that Shikamaru in comparison wouldn’t be able to pull something like Minato toying with the duo with his hiraishin. Point is, Shikamaru would have been eliminated had Kakashi didn’t intervene. And if it was Minato in the scene, he can just warp that raiton and thus Kakashi no longer had to fry himself with that attack.
    He created based off of seeing the Bijuu Blast, which is copying. It's the same logic behind the Lion Combo and Iron Sand techniques.

    There's nothing suggesting that Ee would have been wounded. We've seen the defensive power of the lightning cloak. The Chidori, which has the power to go straight through a person and blow an entire wall out, could barely get through. A senjutsu powered Rasengan couldn't even get past it. It's in no way comparable to a Bijuu's limb, which no one we've seen has had trouble damaging. I asked because battle-wise, Minato didn't do anything. He didn't harm Ee and as mentioned, injuring a Jinchuuriki isn't a complicated thing. And as mentioned, that's not confirmed. We saw that Shikamaru was preparing to do something against the lightning before Kakashi jumped in, so there's no way you can claim that he would have been eliminated for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by naruto the best View Post
    Thanks to the trap Shikamaru planted for days. About Minato’s genius, you really are biased towards him lol. Learn to give shinobi credit where it’s due. Don’t be blinded with your subjective attitude towards the guy. The guy who managed to launch an immediate counter to Tobi’s materialization jutsu and blow him. The guy who quickly thought of marking Bee’s tentacle to teleport at the place opponents have the least expectation and hence fooled A, who is the recent commander of the Whole Alliance and salute him. The guy who invented Rasengan, an A-rank technique. The guy who improved Space time techniques. The guy who criticized in an instant Kakashi’s chidori. The guy who was the only one to follow Kushina’s trail and saved her. The guy who managed to save his village from further Kyuubi skirmish. The guy who quickly thought of involving his and Kushina’s chakra in the seal with his anticipation of Naruto’s possible journey and clearly those things were materialized for his son as evidenced by the manga during Pain Invasion and Naruto’s training. Sasuke has genius level thinking, right? So does Minato.
    Again, please show where "days" were mentioned. Bias? How is it bias to point out that Minato has been shown less then a genius since his reappearance? I mean, I would love an example of Minato being a genius in the current situation, instead of being made to look foolish again and again.

    Also, hitting Obito isn't a genius feat. All that takes is knowledge and anyone can do that, as shown by both Konan and Danzo's bodyguards, neither of who are geniuses. Not sure how fooling Ee matters, since he's hardly the smartest tool in the box. The reason Ee was made commander wasn't due to smarts, but because Kumo was the only village with no ties to Akatsuki. It's yet to be shown exactly how he improved Hiraishin, considering Tobirama has been able to do everything Minato has so far with it. He didn't criticize in an instant the Chidori, it was after Kakashi had already used it against numerous targets, and his criticizing wasn't exactly true because we have seen several times the Chidori work fine without needing the prediction of the Sharingan. I realize noticing Kushina's red hair would take some intelligences, but I'm not sure that a genius level intelligences would be necessary for that. Fighting the Kyuubi didn't take a genius. And I have already made clear my thoughts on his plan of sealing the Kyuubi in Naruto elsewhere. Anyway, my point was that this discussion began because of the current situation and Shikamaru's inability to come up with a solid plan. But the same holds true for Minato (and Tobirama and Sasuke technically). So how can Shikamaru be blamed when he's not doing any worst then any of the real Hokages? You can't really claim he's not fit for being Hokage when they aren't doing much better in the same situation.

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