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Thread: question about logia powers

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    question about logia powers

    if a logia user is attacked by surprise,or from behind and doesnt see the attack coming
    does the attack (non-haki) hit them or does it pass through?
    a better way to ask is does the body automatically turn into the properties of the element, or does the user have to willingly let that pirtion of their body transform?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: question about logia powers

    The former. I am pretty sure that Kizaru was shot a few times from behind during the Sabondy arc while he was simply not caring, not to mention that Apoo 'cut' him up.

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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    if a logia user is attacked by surprise,or from behind and doesnt see the attack coming
    does the attack (non-haki) hit them or does it pass through?
    a better way to ask is does the body automatically turn into the properties of the element, or does the user have to willingly let that pirtion of their body transform?
    Its depend of df logia user skill Crocodile state if logia user master his df can be elemental state all the time automatically and can damage him only haki kairoseri opposite or superior element maybe fishmann karate.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    if a logia user is attacked by surprise,or from behind and doesnt see the attack coming
    does the attack (non-haki) hit them or does it pass through?
    a better way to ask is does the body automatically turn into the properties of the element, or does the user have to willingly let that pirtion of their body transform?
    I think the user has to willingly turn himself into the element. Otherwise he couldn't be able to touch anything or be touched. A flame doesn't know the difference between a punch and a hand shake.

    Kizaru might have been on a sort of a standby mode while appearing to not care (since he's light it shouldn't be too hard for him to become sort of a hologram), or he's enough of an expert to turn into his element on reflex.

    Heh
    Prediction: Dragon will appear on Fishman Island!
    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member noonethere's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    I think the user has to willingly turn himself into the element. Otherwise he couldn't be able to touch anything or be touched. A flame doesn't know the difference between a punch and a hand shake.

    Kizaru might have been on a sort of a standby mode while appearing to not care (since he's light it shouldn't be too hard for him to become sort of a hologram), or he's enough of an expert to turn into his element on reflex.
    I think Kizaru probably used CoO to predict the shots. If it's true that logia users need to willing turn on their power, this would probably mean that high level of CoO users can hurt them even without using CoA.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    As it has been stated it depends on the users skill. Crocodile is currently the only one known to trained himself to the point where his abilities activate on reflex, making any surprise non-haki or water attack on him ineffective. On the flip-side, during Alabaster, Ace and Smoker were hit by surprise and neither turned intangible.

    The CoO theory may hold some relevance as well as we've seen Eneru pull the same thing Kizaru did. But that could be attributed to the fact that they were in dangerous areas where fights were going on. I wouldn't be surprised though if Logia users with haki sensed the attack and reacted by turning intangible.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member BurnSchulz's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Interestint to see that there are indeed different opinions on this.

    Well i think the invincible Mode for Logia users, to turn to the element when hit at the exact spot, is a fully automatic defence function.
    I think to fully turn to the Element has to be trained (also to develop other usefull powers like Crocodiles Righ Hand - Ground Zero attack, or his Desert Rose).
    And to Touch somebody is something the User wants. So his Body is Solid when wanting to touch anything - no need to be trained, because its more like a descision.
    This way there is a difference if he wants to shake hands or if somebody attacks the user by surprise.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by BurnSchulz View Post
    Well i think the invincible Mode for Logia users, to turn to the element when hit at the exact spot, is a fully automatic defence function.
    I think there's no such thing. Using ability depends on the user's will to use it, not on some devil fruit programming. It would mean that the logia ability reacts by activating when a certain amount of force is used on it's user. That would also mean that the user can't take a hit even if he wants to.

    But, I think the situation with Ace and Smoker in Alabasta proves that it's not something automatic. And if that isn't enough, we have Luffy kicking Aokiji here.

    Heh
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    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    I think there's no such thing. Using ability depends on the user's will to use it, not on some devil fruit programming. It would mean that the logia ability reacts by activating when a certain amount of force is used on it's user. That would also mean that the user can't take a hit even if he wants to.

    But, I think the situation with Ace and Smoker in Alabasta proves that it's not something automatic. And if that isn't enough, we have Luffy kicking Aokiji here.
    to me it seems like the logia fruit sometimes has a will of its own, and actd automatically to reduce or avoid damage

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    Re: question about logia powers

    Turning into your element to evade an attack is an active defense rather than passive, but it can become reflexive through training. I'd assume they can train to turn into their element at the first sign of trouble (when they see an attack or said attack connects), or ultimately completley pre-emptively thanks to CoO.
    We saw Enel dozing off when he got stabbed through the head by Kamakiri, and nothing happened. His nigh-omniscient (thanks to Goro Goro no Mi) CoO probably helps a lot.
    Disbelief, Despair & Hatred.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    to me it seems like the logia fruit sometimes has a will of its own, and actd automatically to reduce or avoid damage
    Well, I gave examples. Where are yours?

    Heh
    Prediction: Dragon will appear on Fishman Island!
    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member BurnSchulz's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Well, I gave examples. Where are yours?
    That he doesnt brought examples doesnt automaticly means that his opinion is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Using ability depends on the user's will to use it, not on some devil fruit programming.
    As far as we know it is! After eaten a DF your Body is "programmed" to the Devil Fruits will. And i think Luffy himself is a good example for it.
    How often his body stretches, mostly just for fun, without him being really aware of it.
    Spoiler show

    (Just one example, there are much more like Nami being upset)

    Or Buggy.
    Spoiler show


    I dont think that they always have to be fully aware of an attack incoming that their DF powers will work. Its like their Bodys are under influence of their DF powers full time.

    I think that Luffys arm stretches when being pulled is an automatic thing, also that Buggy cant be cut, also that every bullet from anywhere fired on an Logia User will just go through.

    So its more or less a fully automatic thing. No difference between Logia or Paramecia Users. Your Body has the Shape of your body but has the attribute of the Element your DF Power gave you. Haki or Kairoseki negate it though.

    Once you have eaten a DF, you have the power (advantage or disadvantage) full time.
    Besides... there was never a Situation stated where a logia User couldnt grab anything or touch anything because he wasnt aware of it or because his DF Power didnt allow him to. But thats two different things.

    Being attacked - not be aware - Logia Powers advantage to let the attack automaticly go through.
    Touching something - descission - full awareness - thing can be grabbed.

    Also i admit, that it is a difference between just being the Person, with the shape of the Person, or transforming into elemental Form for Attack like Aces fire fist, or smokers white strike.
    Last edited by BurnSchulz; May 26, 2013 at 05:55 PM.

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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Well, I gave examples. Where are yours?
    honestly i am not prepared to properly answer your question

    now that i consider kizaru probably does use observation haki

    its likely that his seemingly instantaneous property shiftd could have been predicted

    however smoker also seemed to dodge a few attacjs he probably shouldnt have; its been a while since i read or watched material of smoker when he was fighting more often though so i cannot give you an exact chapter or fight

    give me a while to go back and research to find specific examples, i appologize for starting this thread unprepared

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by BurnSchulz View Post
    That he doesnt brought examples doesnt automaticly means that his opinion is wrong.
    I just asked for examples in the interest of further discussion.

    About Luffy and Buggy. Luffy is constantly rubber, because his fruit had made him like that. That's why there are situations where Nami stretches his face or his arms get stretched or he becomes a human balloon after one of his eating marathons. He has no normal mode, like logias do.
    Buggy's fruit, on the other hand, has made him immune to cutting attacks, due to it's nature. He can just attach back because that's what it allows him to do.

    ---------- Post added at 04:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    however smoker also seemed to dodge a few attacjs he probably shouldnt have; its been a while since i read or watched material of smoker when he was fighting more often though so i cannot give you an exact chapter or fight
    During Loguetown he didn't avoid any attacks that would seem completely unexpected. In Marineford battle one guy tried to cut him from the back and Smoker avoided it without even looking. But, since he was in the middle of a massive battle, it stands to reason he was prepared.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    give me a while to go back and research to find specific examples, i appologize for starting this thread unprepared
    No need for apologies.

    Heh
    Prediction: Dragon will appear on Fishman Island!
    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Maybe we need a thread on Physics & Physiology of One Piece Universe.

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