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Thread: question about logia powers

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member BurnSchulz's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    About Luffy and Buggy. Luffy is constantly rubber, because his fruit had made him like that. That's why there are situations where Nami stretches his face or his arms get stretched or he becomes a human balloon after one of his eating marathons. He has no normal mode, like logias do.
    Buggy's fruit, on the other hand, has made him immune to cutting attacks, due to it's nature. He can just attach back because that's what it allows him to do.
    Well the Main Problem i have with your theory, that a Logia User must be aware of an attack to doge it through elemental changing, is, that this implies that ANYONE can really hurt a Logia user if the Logia user is just not paying attention and/or didnt see any attack coming. So any good sniper can Kill a Logia User wth a good shot if the User wasnt aware of an attack. But Such thing never happened in One Piece, so i dont believe it.
    Also i dont believe that every Logia User automaticly has CoO to doge any attack better.

    I beliee, and i have no reason to dont believe it, that the Elemental Form is omnipresent.
    But that a Logia User cant Touch anything is something which was never a Role in One piece, dont know why u came up with this.
    All that we know is - A Logia User can Touch anything he wants. Like if he is giving a Hand Shake or eating something.
    And what we also know is, that every time a Bullet or Sword attack comes to a logia User, it will go through.

    The Alabasta example with Smoker is nice. But its like the only time something like this happens, and it goes against all the 'Rules' we learned about Logia in the Whole Plot til that time and from that time on to present day.
    Maybe someone needs to ask Oda why Smoker was Pushed away by Luffy insdead of Luffy slipping through. Then we can have a clear answer.

    Maybe he would say its the Tension of an upcoming Battle between Smoker and Ace.

  2. #17
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member David Rose's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    I'd say this discussion is kinda useless since we know about the forms of Haki. With it any logia user could foresee attacks and willingly let them pass.

    In my opinion it's all about seeing the attack coming. As a logia you can convert your body in that element and become intangible. Since they do it willingly they activate it, maybe even subconcious, then the bullet passes through and they deactivate it to become solid again. We also pretty much know experienced logia users can become partially intangible, like Crocodile, who would otherwise loose his hook on every transformation (or is he able to transform the hook aswell? I'm not sure). Guess it all comes down to the experience, like always :P

    Dircetly to the opening question: I don't think we will ever again see a logia user without Haki in the manga, which is bad since Haki users are hard to surprise. And most people now also use Haki to attack so they don't need to rely on surprise attacks just to bypass logia powers.
    From what we have seen it's most likely possible to bypass them in the matter you described, while the logia user can dodge by willingly or subconscious (out of reflex) transforming their whole body, or parts. Well, given he's aware of beeing in danger.
    Last edited by David Rose; May 29, 2013 at 09:20 AM. Reason: added some details

    >>David rose to beat the Philistines, with five smooth stones and a sling.<<

  3. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member RichardMNixon's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Well, I gave examples. Where are yours?
    I recall Crocodile here saying something to the effect that he had trained his powers to eliminate the possibility of being attacked by surprise, but I don't see it in that scanlation. It could have been something the anime added.

    My interpretation of the kick to Aokiji is simply that the kick wasn't strong enough to hurt him, let alone fracture him. Aokiji was leagues above Luffy at that point and frankly didn't care that some rookie foolishly kicked him.
    The Grain Pirates. Scourge of Spelt, Corsairs of Corn, Rogues of Rye, Buccaneers of Barley, the Freebooters of the Farmland.
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  4. #19
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMNixon View Post
    My interpretation of the kick to Aokiji is simply that the kick wasn't strong enough to hurt him, let alone fracture him. Aokiji was leagues above Luffy at that point and frankly didn't care that some rookie foolishly kicked him.
    Well, I like my explanation for that and that is that Aokiji knew it won't hurt him and chose not to activate his power.

    The other camp here would probably explain it with logia ability itself deciding it wouldn't hurt Aokiji and choosing not to intervene. As if it's intelligent or something.

    I think the answer is pretty clear, based on everything we saw about logias in One Piece.

    Heh
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    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

  5. #20
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member BetaRuler's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Its hard to tell but from the examples we're giving such as Ace bumping into Smoker,,
    In that example they weren't really getting cut up or exploded, so their bodies didn't really have to rebuild themselves... Where as when Kizaru got blown up from the head he didn't see it coming so he had to rebuild his body. They can still be caught off guard.

    But to hurt them seems another story, Jozu had to have done something to hurt Aokiji back in the war, along side Whitebeard punching Akainu. There are a lot of confusing things about when they can or can't hurt them... Plus with the introduction of Haki it now seems you can hurt them even when they turn their body into elements.

    Also I almost forgot there was something around Zoro's way to defeat Monet in that Monet could have been instant killed had Zoro used haki or something? Oh dear I'd need to reread it again, but no matter how many times it's still not easy to explain or understand

  6. #21
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    if a logia user is attacked by surprise,or from behind and doesnt see the attack coming
    does the attack (non-haki) hit them or does it pass through?
    a better way to ask is does the body automatically turn into the properties of the element, or does the user have to willingly let that pirtion of their body transform?
    Chapter 158, p. 6&7: Logia users do have to willingly activate their intangible mode. Otherwise they're hit, even if they see the attack coming. Ace was actually hit twice, by Luffy and later Smoker.

    Kizaru was prepared to come to Sabaody and well informed about pirates being there. That's why he went there with his intangible mode on - he got there riding a cannon ball that exploded. So why would he turn it off in a war zone?

  7. #22
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    From what I gather we have seen instances of both scenarios. Smoker was seen being pushed back by ace's physical body during alabasta and from that point onward I think we have seen several instances of people just transforming into their element reflexively. Wasn't this said to be an issue of fruit mastery so to speak?

  8. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member RichardMNixon's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Well, I like my explanation for that and that is that Aokiji knew it won't hurt him and chose not to activate his power.

    The other camp here would probably explain it with logia ability itself deciding it wouldn't hurt Aokiji and choosing not to intervene. As if it's intelligent or something.
    I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. You could train yourself to disperse reflexively (like a fight-or-flight response) while still having conscious control over yourself when you choose to.
    Last edited by RichardMNixon; May 30, 2013 at 09:51 PM.
    The Grain Pirates. Scourge of Spelt, Corsairs of Corn, Rogues of Rye, Buccaneers of Barley, the Freebooters of the Farmland.
    What reason is there to stop a man from sailing?

  9. #24
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by BurnSchulz View Post
    Well the Main Problem i have with your theory, that a Logia User must be aware of an attack to doge it through elemental changing, is, that this implies that ANYONE can really hurt a Logia user if the Logia user is just not paying attention and/or didnt see any attack coming. So any good sniper can Kill a Logia User wth a good shot if the User wasnt aware of an attack. But Such thing never happened in One Piece, so i dont believe it.
    Also i dont believe that every Logia User automaticly has CoO to doge any attack better.

    I beliee, and i have no reason to dont believe it, that the Elemental Form is omnipresent.
    But that a Logia User cant Touch anything is something which was never a Role in One piece, dont know why u came up with this.
    All that we know is - A Logia User can Touch anything he wants. Like if he is giving a Hand Shake or eating something.
    And what we also know is, that every time a Bullet or Sword attack comes to a logia User, it will go through.

    The Alabasta example with Smoker is nice. But its like the only time something like this happens, and it goes against all the 'Rules' we learned about Logia in the Whole Plot til that time and from that time on to present day.
    Maybe someone needs to ask Oda why Smoker was Pushed away by Luffy insdead of Luffy slipping through. Then we can have a clear answer.

    Maybe he would say its the Tension of an upcoming Battle between Smoker and Ace.
    The problem with the theory that it's omnipresent is the fact that they can touch objects though. There is no difference between you being punched in the face and you touching something. In both cases, a force is applied on you. One possibility is that the Logia fruit doesn't really come into effect until the force applied is large enough to force it to do so. There are several issues with this too though.

    The most logical conclusion is that they have to activate it manually, which also seems to be the most plausible one given that there are a handful of examples showing the Logia user being touched.

  10. #25
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMNixon View Post
    I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. You could train yourself to disperse reflexively (like a fight-or-flight response) while still having conscious control over yourself when you choose to.
    Well, that's just like training your reflexes, so that you can react to a fast movement or attack. Like in tennis for fast balls, or martial arts with kicks and punches. The only difference here is that instead of moving/dodging, logias activate ther power. I'd say it's like when you touch a cactus with your finger and your hand just twitches back. With enough training, you could say the body reacts on it's own, because the user is well prepared for attacks.

    Heh
    Prediction: Dragon will appear on Fishman Island!
    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

  11. #26
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member KuroKarasu's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Well it's been a while but the matter of Logias is still not clear to me. I've always thought that in order to let an attack pass through you, you have to be aware of it. Unless you trained yourself to activate the power on reflex. That would also explain the handshake matter - it's not a Reflex if you touch something on purpose so there is no reason why you would turn into the element.

    But there is one Thing I don't understand. As far as I know Luffy was only able to hit Enel because he was made of Rubber. But if the Reflex theory is true then Enel could have been hit by Luffy's attacks even without him being rubber - just by punching against the wall and making the attacks unpredictable. That could actually work against every Logia then. Unless of course Enel did train the reflex thing aswell. So I'm not sure what to believe anymore.

    Also I have a second question and I would love to hear an answer to this one: It was stated that Logias are easier targets if they increase their body volume. But why? If a Logia turns completely into his element does that mean that EVERY inch of the fruits substance (for example smoke) is basically one tiny part of the user's body and you can therefore hit him even if he doesn't have a body shape anymore? Or if there is a huge Logia wall like in the Ace vs. Aokiji fight. If ace had transformed himself into fire WHILE the wall was there then there would have been no way to hit him right? Because the wall had nothing to do with his body and he could hide himself in the "created" fire. Just confusing to me.


    PS: Logia without Haki -> Caribou

  12. #27
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Until we're shown otherwise by Oda I will consider that logia powers activate automatically whether the user is aware of the attack or not. The moment harm should come to their body, it transforms and the damage is ignored, period. If anyone could negate the logia's physical immunity by simply taking them unaware, it wouldn't be that great a power.
    As for situations such as Smoker & Ace in chapter 158, I think they should be shrugged off in the name of comic relief.

    Regarding your second question, I think the body of a logia user transformed into its elemental form and a volume of the element created by the user as part of an attack or defense are different things.
    - any part of the former can still be touched by a haki user, resulting in damage to the logia.
    - whereas the later is a completely independant object. When Ace uses his fire pistol ability, he is not throwing a part of his body at his opponent.

  13. #28
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Quote Originally Posted by KuroKarasu View Post
    But there is one Thing I don't understand. As far as I know Luffy was only able to hit Enel because he was made of Rubber. But if the Reflex theory is true then Enel could have been hit by Luffy's attacks even without him being rubber - just by punching against the wall and making the attacks unpredictable. That could actually work against every Logia then. Unless of course Enel did train the reflex thing aswell. So I'm not sure what to believe anymore.
    It's never been stated whether or not Enel had trained his fruit to activate on reflex. Making the attacks unpredictable possibly could have worked, but since Enel was in a fight, I see no reason for him to deactivate his intangibility so if Luffy wasn't rubber, his attack still would have just phased through. Remember he only did that to mess with Enel's predictions.

    Seafearer answered your second question pretty well I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer View Post
    Until we're shown otherwise by Oda I will consider that logia powers activate automatically whether the user is aware of the attack or not. The moment harm should come to their body, it transforms and the damage is ignored, period. If anyone could negate the logia's physical immunity by simply taking them unaware, it wouldn't be that great a power.
    As for situations such as Smoker & Ace in chapter 158, I think they should be shrugged off in the name of comic relief.
    I disagree. I think it's perfectly fine to think that a Logia user could be taken unaware easily if they are in human form. I don't think their minds should automatically adjust to activate intangibility reflexively.

  14. #29
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    Re: question about logia powers

    i think JUST for crocodile that even haki wont hurt him
    i mean, people can touch him already, he is just sand

    he isnt ethereal like fire, or lightning or something
    he is solid

  15. #30
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: question about logia powers

    Ice and snow isn't ephemeral either but both were effected by haki. Crocodile was hit by Jozu and was damaged. People can touch sand, but you can't damage Crocodile.

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