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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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27. You may not vote on this poll
  • Barragan Luisenbarn

    23 85.19%
  • Kaname Tōsen

    4 14.81%
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Thread: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

  1. #16
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    I decided for the most part to not take part in this popularity contest tournament, but this, what you just said is plain wrong.



    From the get go and this is already a conjecture-a-thon. By the sounds of it you're dead set on Tousen being one of the weakest based on your heavily misguided interpretation of what you're calling evidence here. If you want to continue thinking that Tousen was in any way weak or one of the weakest captains, then you better rethink your argument because I'm about to mercilessly destroy your claim here.



    First of all, Kenpachi never "easily managed to take both" of them at the same time, because there was no battle at all, at any moment, but for the one time the did in fact attack at once and were both blocked, and what follows is that in a moment of surprise Tousen gave Kenpachi a chance to kick him, which made Komamura worry for his friend and gave Kenpachi another chance to throw him to the ground. And that's all there is to "taking on two captains at once". The very next thing that happens is that Tousen gives a monologue, uses his Bankai and the rest you know.

    Now, you could argue that what he did to Komamura is a proof of strength, and while it is, it's nothing special because captains can throw opponents several city blocks away with kicks and punches, and stop opponents several times their size effortlessly, as well as carrying several hundred kilos without a sweat. Ichigo for example stopped Zero Yammi's punch... Komamura did what Kenpachi did to him only to a much bigger opponent, and several other examples.



    You say this as if he actually managed to either block or brush their attacks, but he didn't. He was nearly crushed by Komamura's Tengen, which he dodged just in time, and I know he did dodge because Komamura's attack cut the tower they were in all the way down vertically, and left a huge hole also seen here and here, and made even bigger by Tousen's attack here. If Kenpachi got hit by it, he would be at the bottom of the tower among the debris, otherwise he wouldn't have been hit by Tousen's attack. When the dust finally cleared, Kenpachi was still at the top of the tower with them with the hole just behind him, so it means he did the smart thing and got out of the way, something even Aizen did because getting hit by Tengen is like getting hit by a bullet train. By the way, Komamura's reiatsu is strong enough to destroy the ground around him, without even touching, just saying because you look down on Komamura too.

    Following Komamura's attack, Tousen used his second form to shoot blades in every direction, partially because he didn't want to miss and because there was a lot of dust, so it's not possible that ALL of the blades could have hit Kenpachi unless he was actively trying to catch every blade with his body by moving around. In the end, only a few hit Kenpachi, but they did hit him hard. Back to the main point, it means Kenpachi was unable to block or dodge, and the result was several blades sunk many centimeters deep all over his back and shoulders.

    You should be aware that such a deep cut is nothing to laugh about, with the danger of bleeding out from all the nerves, muscles and blood streams cut. It's also painful as hell if you ever had something that thick sunk in your flesh. What Kenpachi did by laughing is called a bluff, because he's crazy and apparently has unlimited blood and his body doesn't need muscles to move. He was in pain, he was bleeding all over, and he failed to keep up to his word that they wouldn't make him sweat, he failed to evade their attack and was severely injured in the process. Another captains would never allow something like that to happen, they value themselves way to much to give their opponent an opportunity to injure them so badly.

    And I'm going to keep the part about their Bankais short. Kenpachi was completely helpless against Tousen. No, he did not "beat" the Bankai, he did not destroy it, he did not overpower it's effect, all he could do was wait for Tousen to cut him to move in the opposite direction. In the end he couldn't even figure what to do, so he pretty much gambled his life to know for sure where Tousen was, and the only way was to have his sword deep within him. And to make it worse for you, he slashed Tousen very hard, and you can see in the way the sword is drawn with a lot of speed and weight, not once, but twice, a direct hit, and didn't even cut him in half. And there's more, he couldn't even cut Komamura.

    Komamura's part is shorter, he never actually fought Kenpachi with his Bankai, because they were interrupted, and shortly after Komamura left, with no visible injuries when he was seen again.

    Tousen didn't get too many things to do, but he did some impressive things, cutting off Grimmjow's arm faster than he could defend himself, and using a chantless Hadou to disintegrate the arm.

    There's also the important yet widely overlooked issue that there are more types of power and strength than physical strength. Tousen's specialty was to use his sense-numbing Zanpakuto to beat others. He may not be the strongest physically, but he was well capable of taking several captains at once with his Bankai as a 5th seated officer. Yes, a seated officer that was so good at his job that achieved Bankai and several other skills 100 years before the current timeline.

    And there's more, one of the reasons Aizen gave about recruiting Tousen was because of his blindness, and because he completely trusted Tousen as a subordinate, making him do things that could have easily ruined his plans if they went wrong, and some of the tasks he gave Tousen was trusting him with his life. Also included in that page is Tousen nearly killed Shinji with a speed attack from the front.

    I hope this cleared it up, because it took forever and looking for every page is frustrating.



    He didn't barely, he completely annihilated Komamura. He was blocking Tengen with ease, was faster and agile, whacking him around with immense strength, cutting his Bankai, survived a direct hit with relatively less damage, and Hollowfication increases damage resistance. Tousen's words make it sound like he or anybody else would have died without the power boost. After Hollowfying into a giant fly he stopped Komamura's Bankai singlehandedly, cracking it even, and used a sound attack so powerful that it broke through Myou's thick metal armor all the way to the rib cage, nearly killing Komamura. At this point Hisagi killing him is irrelevant, because it was thanks to Tousen's lack of attention, not lack of strength.



    Love was smacking Starrk around with ease with his "failed" Hollowfication. Tousen should be able to do more with his full Hollowfication.



    And at last, you're saying that it could be possible to counter Respira, even though it's a power of time and not a power of reiatsu. Respira was able to age Kido including Hachigen's space-time tricks, there's no way reiatsu alone is going to be able to counter Respira.

    With all this, Tousen is very well capable of defeating Barragan, as long as he plays it safe and keeps his distance while waiting for an opening.
    Thank you (though my 30mins written post, I have to put on hold at least for now lol).

    Now on with how I think Tousen could defeat Mr Age's resurreccion form with his own his resurreccion form. It's actually something I have said before. Sound catching Barragan off guard. Like you said, Tousen is very capable of defeating Barragan & with the right timing, victory is his.

    Sound. http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...6-page-16.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...9-page-13.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...9-page-14.html

    I've had quite the lengthy talk with an individual regarding the subject 'sound' in the past. Sound is vibrations that travels through in the air or another medium. We can't perceive sound with out optical eyes but we hear it. We hear sound when it had gotten into our system (our body) & we can even feel it's effects (depending on the force of the sound).

    Those Sound waves we're seeing from the pages above, they are completely invisible. In spite of that, it evident that Tousen's sound had enough force to obliterate a bankai which particularly specialises in raw physical strength & tanking.

    What I'm saying is simple. Tousen can surprise Barragan with sound through a distraction of some sort & then at the appropriate time surprise Barragan with sound. Barragan wouldn't know what hit him (thus he wouldn't know when to Age) until the sound had already gotten into his system (his body), shattering Barragan apart like the skeleton he is.

    What do you think of this Torran?

  2. #17
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    What do you think of this Torran?
    I'm not a physicist. It could work maybe. My point is that Tousen has a decent chance of winning because he's actually pretty strong, although Barragan is most likely to win. The only limit Respira has as far as I know is range and speed, if Tousen can keep away he should be safe.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

  3. #18
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    I'm not a physicist. It could work maybe. My point is that Tousen has a decent chance of winning because he's actually pretty strong, although Barragan is most likely to win. The only limit Respira has as far as I know is range and speed, if Tousen can keep away he should be safe.
    It's an idea of course & according to the laws of physics, it seems to work but in the end it's really an idea of how people can get around Mr Age.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    I'm trying to think for a way for Tousen to win, but... there isn't. Too bad. I want someone other than Hachi to defeat Baraggan.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    Ok, after reading Torran's sterling post - and with the idea that sound can't age (so the sound attack should be able to hit). I am of the mind that Tousen should be able to damage Barragan. Now, Barragan is tough - but so is Tengen Myuou - and we saw what Los Nueve Aspectos did to that.

    I am going to go with Tousen - I doubt he will win the popular vote (I don't blame people for voting Baragan - his abilities are very strong). Tousen is incredibly strong, has rapid regeneration, speed, and has moves that can damage Barragan from range.
    Added to this, he can remove all the senses (except touch) for Barragan using his bankai (assuming that he can still use this in his new form).
    Infinite RAGE!

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    I'm going Barragan. I don't see how Tousen handles Barragan's Respira, and don't see any options for him to do much harm to Barragan. Seeing as Barragan aged Kido, I don't see what's going to stop him from 'aging' sound based on what we've seen in the manga. Barragan appears to have too many advantages in the context of this battle.

  7. #22
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    True sound loses power over distance, but that is because it travels over time. Distance and time are both related to space. Not to mention the question of what is time is far from being answered by our current level of knowledge. That is a question for theoretical physicists and philosophers. I think the best and easiest way to understand time in this context is entropy. Entropy is the natural decay over time, the tendency towards chaos/breaking down/dissipation/etc. , and EVERYTHING is subject to it, whether it is matter or energy, which would include sound, and as far as respira is concerned, it accelerate/manipulates entropy.

    Also, I thought is was well known that respira is pretty fast, spammable, and covers a large area, nor do we have reason to think the range is small considering Hachi and Soi were not close to the nuke/Kido box when Baraggan starting throwing it all over.

    Also if you REALLY want to get into physics, the pressure of sound is GREATLY lost on baraggan's skeletal frame, as opposed to Koma's Bankais nice flat, large chest plate. Not to mention being bones without organs makes sound far less destructive.

    PS: velocity is distance over time, so if Baraggans power increases time, it will decrease the velocity, effectively aging the sound, causing it to lose power while travelling less distance per unit of time.
    Last edited by xXAshisogiJizoXx; June 10, 2013 at 01:16 PM.
    Not Perfect is GOoD

  8. #23
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    If sound did age, would Barragan hear anything?

    I guess Kubo didn't think this far ahead though, there's a pretty good chance that respira can slow down the motion of air molecules (which is what sound basically is) as he did to Soifon's kicks. IMHO a shock wave may stop or even repel respira though at least until it loses its energy, so we actually try to measure who can outspam the other until his technique reaches the other. In this case Barragan seems to have much better chances, perhaps this is why Starrk was higher-ranked than Barragan, he was even a better spammer. Barragan is also more resistant to damage, on the other hand if respira reaches Tousen, he will probably die and he doesn't seem to be particularly fast in his bug form which reduces his chances.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    Can tousen put up his bankai and beat an unreleased barragan? Maybe

    Is hollow tousen one of the physically strongest things ever seen in bleach? I think so and maybe a good punch could knock barragans lights out..and the sound wave could blast push back respira buuut barragan can spam that haxed to the max respira without any hesitation.

    Barragan gets my vote. But tousen is awesome.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    Miyagi
    Well, Yammi and Starrk were considered stronger than Barragan by Aizen, because they had more Reiatsu.
    Aizen measured strength in Reiatsu.

    Torran
    I won't argue with your entire post. Just with some quotes.

    Quote Quote:
    I decided for the most part to not take part in this popularity contest tournament, but this, what you just said is plain wrong.
    Well, if you believe that I'm plain wrong, then present me any other Captain who is weaker than Tousen as a Shinigami
    My only option is Mayuri... But I might be wrong again.

    Quote Quote:
    from the get go and this is already a conjecture-a-thon. By the sounds of it you're dead set on Tousen being one of the weakest based on your heavily misguided interpretation of what you're calling evidence here. If you want to continue thinking that Tousen was in any way weak or one of the weakest captains, then you better rethink your argument because I'm about to mercilessly destroy your claim here.
    Well again, I might repeat myself here, if you believe that I'm plain wrong, then present me any other Captain who is weaker than Tousen as a Shinigami
    My only option is Mayuri... But I might be wrong again.
    If you actually like Tousen it's one thing, but nothing in manga actually suggested that as a Shinigami he wasn;'t one of the weakest Captains.

    Quote Quote:
    First of all, Kenpachi never "easily managed to take both" of them at the same time, because there was no battle at all, at any moment, but for the one time the did in fact attack at once and were both blocked, and what follows is that in a moment of surprise Tousen gave Kenpachi a chance to kick him, which made Komamura worry for his friend and gave Kenpachi another chance to throw him to the ground. And that's all there is to "taking on two captains at once". The very next thing that happens is that Tousen gives a monologue, uses his Bankai and the rest you know.

    Now, you could argue that what he did to Komamura is a proof of strength, and while it is, it's nothing special because captains can throw opponents several city blocks away with kicks and punches, and stop opponents several times their size effortlessly, as well as carrying several hundred kilos without a sweat. Ichigo for example stopped Zero Yammi's punch... Komamura did what Kenpachi did to him only to a much bigger opponent, and several other examples.
    Well, I don't really see what destroys my argument here... Kenpachi still stands after fighting both of them, then Tousen uses Bankai. In the end we know that he lost... Even though his Bankai in terms of hax is second only to Aizen...

    Quote Quote:
    There's also the important yet widely overlooked issue that there are more types of power and strength than physical strength. Tousen's specialty was to use his sense-numbing Zanpakuto to beat others. He may not be the strongest physically, but he was well capable of taking several captains at once with his Bankai as a 5th seated officer. Yes, a seated officer that was so good at his job that achieved Bankai and several other skills 100 years before the current timeline.
    Well, I really waited for this.) In such case Hisagi is a monster since he managed to beat such a guy, when he used Resureccion. It doesn't matter that it was a surprise attack from Hisagi's part.
    In this case Tousen managed to use a surprise factor. It wasn't a fight. It was a set of surprise attacks at night, when his opponents didn't expect anything, while he used his Bankai that is again second in terms of hax only to Aizen's Bankai.

    Quote Quote:
    He didn't barely, he completely annihilated Komamura. He was blocking Tengen with ease, was faster and agile, whacking him around with immense strength, cutting his Bankai, survived a direct hit with relatively less damage, and Hollowfication increases damage resistance. Tousen's words make it sound like he or anybody else would have died without the power boost. After Hollowfying into a giant fly he stopped Komamura's Bankai singlehandedly, cracking it even, and used a sound attack so powerful that it broke through Myou's thick metal armor all the way to the rib cage, nearly killing Komamura. At this point Hisagi killing him is irrelevant, because it was thanks to Tousen's lack of attention, not lack of strength.
    Of course he became stronger. But! his feats are against Komamura. Can you seriously praise a person for winning against Komamura? And then compare this person to Barragan?

    Quote Quote:
    Love was smacking Starrk around with ease with his "failed" Hollowfication. Tousen should be able to do more with his full Hollowfication.
    You should consider that basic Love is stronger than Tousen as a Shinigami, so he is obviously strong as hell, so it's not a proof that Tousen would suddenly win against Starrk or Barragan.

    Quote Quote:
    And at last, you're saying that it could be possible to counter Respira, even though it's a power of time and not a power of reiatsu. Respira was able to age Kido including Hachigen's space-time tricks, there's no way reiatsu alone is going to be able to counter Respira.
    It was clearly stated in the manga by Aizen that any ability can be countered if your Reiatsu is considerably stronger than your opponent's. Aizen even showed it when countered Soi Fong's Shikai ability.
    Also Aizen stated that he didn't really need Espada, since he alone managed to do more than entire Espada. It does actually look that Aizen could have taken down entire Espada alone...

    Quote Quote:
    With all this, Tousen is very well capable of defeating Barragan, as long as he plays it safe and keeps his distance while waiting for an opening.
    Again, what Tousen has to defeat Barragan from distance? Cero? His other attacks aren't strong enough to defeat Barragan in any way.
    Also his sound attacks are Kidou based as well, since his Shikai is Kidou based. So how come it won't be countered by Respira?

  11. #26
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Well, if you believe that I'm plain wrong, then present me any other Captain who is weaker than Tousen as a Shinigami
    My only option is Mayuri... But I might be wrong again.
    Every captain has ups and downs, but as far as Tousen performed he did pretty good. Instead of putting the burden of proof on me, even after spending so long explaining in detail my point, try to defend your own claim instead. I've given my evidence, where's yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Well again, I might repeat myself here, if you believe that I'm plain wrong, then present me any other Captain who is weaker than Tousen as a Shinigami
    My only option is Mayuri... But I might be wrong again.
    If you actually like Tousen it's one thing, but nothing in manga actually suggested that as a Shinigami he wasn;'t one of the weakest Captains.
    You can't prove a double negative, smart guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Well, I don't really see what destroys my argument here... Kenpachi still stands after fighting both of them,
    You can't be serious. You just changed your claim that Aizen took on two captains with ease while laughing and now you're saying that he still stood after "fighting both of them", even though I already proved that he barely escaped alive from their brief encounter and his performance was abysmal. But if you want to play this game, Kenpachi failed to take Tousen down after two direct hits, and if it wasn't for Tousen playing stupid by trying to monologue a deaf Kenpachi, he would have been taken down like Tousen did to the Vaizados.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    then Tousen uses Bankai. In the end we know that he lost... Even though his Bankai in terms of hax is second only to Aizen...
    And are you going to skip the details and go directly to the outcome to support your claim now? Kenpachi was so helpless against Tousen's Bankai that he had to give Tousen a free hit just to be sure of his position. I don't know why Tousen decided to stab him in the stomach, but that could have been his heart or neck or head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Well, I really waited for this.) In such case Hisagi is a monster since he managed to beat such a guy, when he used Resureccion. It doesn't matter that it was a surprise attack from Hisagi's part.
    The big difference is that Hisagi was lucky enough to catch a distracted superpowered Tousen while Tousen used his own power to take down whoever trapped in his Bankai. If you're going to resort to cheap arguments like these then please give up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    In this case Tousen managed to use a surprise factor. It wasn't a fight. It was a set of surprise attacks at night, when his opponents didn't expect anything, while he used his Bankai that is again second in terms of hax only to Aizen's Bankai.
    A Bankai he achieved as a 5th seat officer among many talents, and Aizen's trust as a right hand. The Vaizados had enough time to react and yet they were helpless after their senses got taken away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Of course he became stronger. But! his feats are against Komamura. Can you seriously praise a person for winning against Komamura? And then compare this person to Barragan?
    You must have balls, and arrogance, to think that you can blatantly disregard a post I put so much effort put into making it easy and convenient for you, and bring up another poorly conceived claim that is also debunked in the very same post you're just lazily replying to, and believing that it's going to hold any value. If you think that you can judge Komamura's strength based solely on his win/lose ratio, 3 loses out of which two were against god damn Aizen and fully Hollowfied Tousen, then just leave this tournament, because you're making more harm than contributing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    You should consider that basic Love is stronger than Tousen as a Shinigami, so he is obviously strong as hell, so it's not a proof that Tousen would suddenly win against Starrk or Barragan.
    The Vaizados could take down other captains with ease, and that includes the vice captain Vaizados. Hiyori could crush Ichigo in a fight and break Zangetsu, the vice captain Vaizados took on Hollow Ichigo without a mask, Mashiro was kicking WonderWeiss ass, the very same guy that snuck up behind Shunsui and Ukitake and nearly killed one of them, who also fought Yamamoto and did some damage. Hollowfication has been shown many times to increase power dramatically, it was shown on that very fight between Tousen and Komamura. There's absolutely NO reason why Tousen wouldn't be as strong after he did so much, evidence of which was provided in my previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    It was clearly stated in the manga by Aizen that any ability can be countered if your Reiatsu is considerably stronger than your opponent's.
    Don't generalize and don't take out of context. Not every ability works the same way as Soifon, especially Respira which can age Kido, which is done by solid reiatsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Aizen even showed it when countered Soi Fong's Shikai ability.
    Soifon had just used her Bankai twice in a couple of minutes, which is usually a one short attack with 3 days to recover, and could barely stand, was visibly exhausted as well. It's an entirely different thing than the Segunda Espada at his best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Also Aizen stated that he didn't really need Espada, since he alone managed to do more than entire Espada. It does actually look that Aizen could have taken down entire Espada alone...
    But taking down Barragan wouldn't have been as easy as just overpowering Respira.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Also his sound attacks are Kidou based as well, since his Shikai is Kidou based. So how come it won't be countered by Respira?
    His attack is vibration based, evident from that time Hisagi chained up Tousen's Zanpakuto and he made it vibrate to unbind it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Again, what Tousen has to defeat Barragan from distance? Cero? His other attacks aren't strong enough to defeat Barragan in any way.
    You gotta be shitting me. I'm even questioning your position as a moderator at this point. You're doing the opposite of what a moderator should do in a forum or debate, you're polluting this thread with trolling. There's some discussion about Tousen's sound attack in this thread, if you even bothered to read that. Not strong enough? Read my damn post before replying to it next time.

    You skipped 90% of my post while trying to make a comeback by making inconsequential remarks. That is the opposite of what you should do if you want some credibility.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

  12. #27
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    Quote Originally Posted by eefrit View Post
    Can sound even age? I've got to think about that a bit more, Barragan might (and probably will) win this though.
    Sound isn't a physical entity. Sound is spread across a medium of particles, and particles can age (decay). So theoretically, Barragan's powers would work.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagi View Post
    If sound did age, would Barragan hear anything?

    I guess Kubo didn't think this far ahead though, there's a pretty good chance that respira can slow down the motion of air molecules (which is what sound basically is) as he did to Soifon's kicks. IMHO a shock wave may stop or even repel respira though at least until it loses its energy, so we actually try to measure who can outspam the other until his technique reaches the other. In this case Barragan seems to have much better chances, perhaps this is why Starrk was higher-ranked than Barragan, he was even a better spammer. Barragan is also more resistant to damage, on the other hand if respira reaches Tousen, he will probably die and he doesn't seem to be particularly fast in his bug form which reduces his chances.
    I disagree. Tosen called his hollowfication a power "greater than bankai". Even Komma remarked on his speed. Sound waves don't age in the sense of barragan's respira imo. I think Tosen has the best resurecion of them all as well. Not going too into details I believe Tosen has a good shot at winning. Not with bankai, but resurecion.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Kazu-Sama's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    First of all, Torran, you're an idiot. In the nicest possible way, you're yelling at a mod for trolling then doing the same, only with insults.

    Secondly, Tousen is incredibly strong. But Barragan can age soifon's kicks, and therefore I personally think he can age the sound waves, since it's slowing the molecules. Were Tousen to get another fight against someone less over-the-top, I'd reckon he'd win comfortably. He is hugely powerful, fast, and has a ridiculous Bankai. But Barragan's respira doesn't really care about power, and he can send it out in a 360-degree arc. Plus, even if he were to hit Barragan, he's shown great endurance surviving Soifon's Bankai in a sealed box. His Skeletal form can reduce the damage inflicted by sound waves, and he doesn't exactly seem brittle.

    Ultimately, neither of them were beaten by being overpowered at their peak, just surprise and Hachi using a ridiculous move. So there's no clear way of judging, but ultimately for me Tousen takes it.

    When I first read this, and even in the group stages, I severely underestimated Tousen, but reading all of this I realise how strong he is. But HSR can't help if Barragan hits his internal organs (as stated by Ulquiorra) and in bug form he presents a massive target.

    Epic Brofist!

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Round 2: Barragan vs Tōsen

    Moderators are here to keep the discussion on topic and remain neutral. If they wish to participate, fine, but their arguments hold the same weight as anybody else. By taking part in a discussion they are expected to know about the topic or at the very least read an opposing post before trying to reply to it. If they treat someone like trash, then don't expect zero retaliation.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

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