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Now on with how I think Tousen could defeat Mr Age's resurreccion form with his own his resurreccion form. It's actually something I have said before. Sound catching Barragan off guard. Like you said, Tousen is very capable of defeating Barragan & with the right timing, victory is his.
Sound. http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...6-page-16.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...9-page-13.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...9-page-14.html
I've had quite the lengthy talk with an individual regarding the subject 'sound' in the past. Sound is vibrations that travels through in the air or another medium. We can't perceive sound with out optical eyes but we hear it. We hear sound when it had gotten into our system (our body) & we can even feel it's effects (depending on the force of the sound).
Those Sound waves we're seeing from the pages above, they are completely invisible. In spite of that, it evident that Tousen's sound had enough force to obliterate a bankai which particularly specialises in raw physical strength & tanking.
What I'm saying is simple. Tousen can surprise Barragan with sound through a distraction of some sort & then at the appropriate time surprise Barragan with sound. Barragan wouldn't know what hit him (thus he wouldn't know when to Age) until the sound had already gotten into his system (his body), shattering Barragan apart like the skeleton he is.
What do you think of this Torran?
I'm trying to think for a way for Tousen to win, but... there isn't. Too bad. I want someone other than Hachi to defeat Baraggan.
Ok, after reading Torran's sterling post - and with the idea that sound can't age (so the sound attack should be able to hit). I am of the mind that Tousen should be able to damage Barragan. Now, Barragan is tough - but so is Tengen Myuou - and we saw what Los Nueve Aspectos did to that.
I am going to go with Tousen - I doubt he will win the popular vote (I don't blame people for voting Baragan - his abilities are very strong). Tousen is incredibly strong, has rapid regeneration, speed, and has moves that can damage Barragan from range.
Added to this, he can remove all the senses (except touch) for Barragan using his bankai (assuming that he can still use this in his new form).
I'm going Barragan. I don't see how Tousen handles Barragan's Respira, and don't see any options for him to do much harm to Barragan. Seeing as Barragan aged Kido, I don't see what's going to stop him from 'aging' sound based on what we've seen in the manga. Barragan appears to have too many advantages in the context of this battle.
True sound loses power over distance, but that is because it travels over time. Distance and time are both related to space. Not to mention the question of what is time is far from being answered by our current level of knowledge. That is a question for theoretical physicists and philosophers. I think the best and easiest way to understand time in this context is entropy. Entropy is the natural decay over time, the tendency towards chaos/breaking down/dissipation/etc. , and EVERYTHING is subject to it, whether it is matter or energy, which would include sound, and as far as respira is concerned, it accelerate/manipulates entropy.
Also, I thought is was well known that respira is pretty fast, spammable, and covers a large area, nor do we have reason to think the range is small considering Hachi and Soi were not close to the nuke/Kido box when Baraggan starting throwing it all over.
Also if you REALLY want to get into physics, the pressure of sound is GREATLY lost on baraggan's skeletal frame, as opposed to Koma's Bankais nice flat, large chest plate. Not to mention being bones without organs makes sound far less destructive.
PS: velocity is distance over time, so if Baraggans power increases time, it will decrease the velocity, effectively aging the sound, causing it to lose power while travelling less distance per unit of time.
Last edited by xXAshisogiJizoXx; June 10, 2013 at 01:16 PM.
If sound did age, would Barragan hear anything?
I guess Kubo didn't think this far ahead though, there's a pretty good chance that respira can slow down the motion of air molecules (which is what sound basically is) as he did to Soifon's kicks. IMHO a shock wave may stop or even repel respira though at least until it loses its energy, so we actually try to measure who can outspam the other until his technique reaches the other. In this case Barragan seems to have much better chances, perhaps this is why Starrk was higher-ranked than Barragan, he was even a better spammer. Barragan is also more resistant to damage, on the other hand if respira reaches Tousen, he will probably die and he doesn't seem to be particularly fast in his bug form which reduces his chances.
Can tousen put up his bankai and beat an unreleased barragan? Maybe
Is hollow tousen one of the physically strongest things ever seen in bleach? I think so and maybe a good punch could knock barragans lights out..and the sound wave could blast push back respira buuut barragan can spam that haxed to the max respira without any hesitation.
Barragan gets my vote. But tousen is awesome.
Well, Yammi and Starrk were considered stronger than Barragan by Aizen, because they had more Reiatsu.
Aizen measured strength in Reiatsu.
I won't argue with your entire post. Just with some quotes.
Well, if you believe that I'm plain wrong, then present me any other Captain who is weaker than Tousen as a ShinigamiQuote:
My only option is Mayuri... But I might be wrong again.
Well again, I might repeat myself here, if you believe that I'm plain wrong, then present me any other Captain who is weaker than Tousen as a ShinigamiQuote:
My only option is Mayuri... But I might be wrong again.
If you actually like Tousen it's one thing, but nothing in manga actually suggested that as a Shinigami he wasn;'t one of the weakest Captains.
Well, I don't really see what destroys my argument here... Kenpachi still stands after fighting both of them, then Tousen uses Bankai. In the end we know that he lost... Even though his Bankai in terms of hax is second only to Aizen...Quote:
Well, I really waited for this.) In such case Hisagi is a monster since he managed to beat such a guy, when he used Resureccion. It doesn't matter that it was a surprise attack from Hisagi's part.Quote:
In this case Tousen managed to use a surprise factor. It wasn't a fight. It was a set of surprise attacks at night, when his opponents didn't expect anything, while he used his Bankai that is again second in terms of hax only to Aizen's Bankai.
Of course he became stronger. But! his feats are against Komamura. Can you seriously praise a person for winning against Komamura? And then compare this person to Barragan?Quote:
You should consider that basic Love is stronger than Tousen as a Shinigami, so he is obviously strong as hell, so it's not a proof that Tousen would suddenly win against Starrk or Barragan.Quote:
It was clearly stated in the manga by Aizen that any ability can be countered if your Reiatsu is considerably stronger than your opponent's. Aizen even showed it when countered Soi Fong's Shikai ability.Quote:
Also Aizen stated that he didn't really need Espada, since he alone managed to do more than entire Espada. It does actually look that Aizen could have taken down entire Espada alone...
Again, what Tousen has to defeat Barragan from distance? Cero? His other attacks aren't strong enough to defeat Barragan in any way.Quote:
Also his sound attacks are Kidou based as well, since his Shikai is Kidou based. So how come it won't be countered by Respira?
You skipped 90% of my post while trying to make a comeback by making inconsequential remarks. That is the opposite of what you should do if you want some credibility.
First of all, Torran, you're an idiot. In the nicest possible way, you're yelling at a mod for trolling then doing the same, only with insults.
Secondly, Tousen is incredibly strong. But Barragan can age soifon's kicks, and therefore I personally think he can age the sound waves, since it's slowing the molecules. Were Tousen to get another fight against someone less over-the-top, I'd reckon he'd win comfortably. He is hugely powerful, fast, and has a ridiculous Bankai. But Barragan's respira doesn't really care about power, and he can send it out in a 360-degree arc. Plus, even if he were to hit Barragan, he's shown great endurance surviving Soifon's Bankai in a sealed box. His Skeletal form can reduce the damage inflicted by sound waves, and he doesn't exactly seem brittle.
Ultimately, neither of them were beaten by being overpowered at their peak, just surprise and Hachi using a ridiculous move. So there's no clear way of judging, but ultimately for me Tousen takes it.
When I first read this, and even in the group stages, I severely underestimated Tousen, but reading all of this I realise how strong he is. But HSR can't help if Barragan hits his internal organs (as stated by Ulquiorra) and in bug form he presents a massive target.
Moderators are here to keep the discussion on topic and remain neutral. If they wish to participate, fine, but their arguments hold the same weight as anybody else. By taking part in a discussion they are expected to know about the topic or at the very least read an opposing post before trying to reply to it. If they treat someone like trash, then don't expect zero retaliation.