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Thread: I have two questions about Nen/Ren

  1. #151
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    Re: I have two questions about Nen/Ren

    Every high level Ant ? Not really. We never saw any Ant take an aura attack head on with only their bodies without enduring some kind of injury. A mere Nen bullet was enough to kill Yunju, and other like Leol and Cheetu didn't seem that durable either. The only Squadron Leader who had an especially strong body was Zazan.
    Last edited by Django; August 13, 2013 at 01:14 PM.

  2. #152
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: I have two questions about Nen/Ren

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    If Palm has especially strong hair that functions as especially strong armor then the whole description is kind of dumb. It's like saying Meryem is scary because he can put all his aura on offense too as his body is more than capable of withstanding just about any physical punishment. You might as well say this guy is strong because he's indestructible. The explanation is meaningless though because the character's strength comes from some unique physical trait, especially given 'not have to worry about physical defense due to great physical body' is something virtually every high level Ant has.
    Why would the description be dumb? It makes perfect sense and as the manga implied it is a dreadful ability for her enemies. Nen users in general and enhancers have to concern themselves with where exactly their nen is concentrated at any given time for defense and offense. Palm's ability allows her to focus her aura solely on attacking while leaving her hair to take care of all of the defense. No other enhancer or nen user altogether has that sort of advantage so far, they all have to be extremely careful with managing their ryu. All ants are pretty durable but they all take a lot of damage from nen attacks if undefended. On the other hand the manga made the point that palm's hair is so durable that it can defend from aura attacks without aura of its own which is pretty damn unique so far.

  3. #153
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: I have two questions about Nen/Ren

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Why would the description be dumb? It makes perfect sense and as the manga implied it is a dreadful ability for her enemies. Nen users in general and enhancers have to concern themselves with where exactly their nen is concentrated at any given time for defense and offense. Palm's ability allows her to focus her aura solely on attacking while leaving her hair to take care of all of the defense. No other enhancer or nen user altogether has that sort of advantage so far, they all have to be extremely careful with managing their ryu. All ants are pretty durable but they all take a lot of damage from nen attacks if undefended. On the other hand the manga made the point that palm's hair is so durable that it can defend from aura attacks without aura of its own which is pretty damn unique so far.
    The Ants only take significant damage from special aura type attacks. The only high level Ant that got got defeated by physical damage was Pitou (versus Transformed Gon) and Cheetu (too dumb to live). Everything other Ant was defeated by stuff that can't be readily defended against (fire/lightning/poison/suffocation). It's a given that Ants shrug off most physical attacks which is why I see no point to emphasize it.

  4. #154
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: I have two questions about Nen/Ren

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    The Ants only take significant damage from special aura type attacks. The only high level Ant that got got defeated by physical damage was Pitou (versus Transformed Gon) and Cheetu (too dumb to live). Everything other Ant was defeated by stuff that can't be readily defended against (fire/lightning/poison/suffocation). It's a given that Ants shrug off most physical attacks which is why I see no point to emphasize it.
    Thats not actually true. What about the guy pninx defeated? Phinx used his version of a nen charged punch. And what about the guy shalnark defeated? Shalnark used his antenna to control and give himself a huge aura boost but he is still defeating the ant physically. Kaluto manipulated paper to defeat his enemy via paper bits. Its a special ability but it is still pretty physical so to speak. Then there is the bird ant that killua defeated while gon was on a date, and most of the ants that gon, killua and kite defeated during their first incursion into quimera ant territory. Heck, killua and gon ripped appart quite a number of ants with their bare hands when they were moving around NGL on their own. How each nen users kills an ant is not a matter of ants being impervious to physical damage, its a matter of the sort of technique they had. Ants by no means shrug of physical attacks, its a simple matter of the attack being strong enough.

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    Re: I have two questions about Nen/Ren

    I'm talking about Ants at the same ranking as Zanza after they know how to use aura. Only Cheetu and Pitou were defeated by physical attacks. Cheetu is actually physically frail (Morel and Knuckle can shrug off his physical attacks), and Pitou was matched up against Transformed Gon. It's a given that physical attacks are mostly ineffective against any noteworthy Ant character. If this isn't the case it wouldn't be so complicated to defeat them.

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    Re: I have two questions about Nen/Ren

    Peggy and turtle were both squad captains and both of them were killed via decapitation. Welfin was basically shot down by ikarugo (a lesser ant at that and shooting fleas is pretty physical). Meleoron would be too weak to actually take a physical attack. Physical attacks are completely effective against ants, they are by no means anything even vaguely resembling what you say. Its a matter of the attack being strong enough to do the deep which is not much different than fighting against a normal human nen user. Zanza got defeated via high temperatures because that is the ability feitan has. If she had fought someone with exceptional physical capacities then she would have been defeated by that person provided that person had the strength for it. Leol got defeated by smoke because that is murao's power, not because physical attacks wouldn't have worked.

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    Re: I have two questions about Nen/Ren

    I'm not sure why you bring up the Ants who got defeated by Meryem whose physical ability is way off the charts. Human level of physical strength is simply not effective against noteworthy Ants. Not no effect, but it's certainly not something you can count on. Therefore repeating the fact that Palm, if she was indeed an Ant (I don't agree) has exceptional physical durability is completely meaningless. Zanza can take a Ko without even trying to guard against it. That is pretty much imprevious to physical damage. Yes Feitan isn't super strong physically but he's obviously not meant to be weak, and besides he used a weapon and we know weapons are supposed to be strong enough to penetrate defenses (e.g. Nobunaga says he can't beat Ubogin without a weapon, implying having a weapon obviously does turn things around). Ikalgo's sniper rounds are obviously some kind of armor/aura piercing special rounds as they pierce through Killua's defenses just fine too.

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    Re: I have two questions about Nen/Ren

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    I'm not sure why you bring up the Ants who got defeated by Meryem whose physical ability is way off the charts. Human level of physical strength is simply not effective against noteworthy Ants. Not no effect, but it's certainly not something you can count on. Therefore repeating the fact that Palm, if she was indeed an Ant (I don't agree) has exceptional physical durability is completely meaningless. Zanza can take a Ko without even trying to guard against it. That is pretty much imprevious to physical damage. Yes Feitan isn't super strong physically but he's obviously not meant to be weak, and besides he used a weapon and we know weapons are supposed to be strong enough to penetrate defenses (e.g. Nobunaga says he can't beat Ubogin without a weapon, implying having a weapon obviously does turn things around). Ikalgo's sniper rounds are obviously some kind of armor/aura piercing special rounds as they pierce through Killua's defenses just fine too.
    You take Zazan as an example, but you forget that : 1) Her hard skin is supposed to be a unique feature, definitely not something that all Squadron Leaders have. 2) It was never stated that Zazan didn't use aura against Feitan's Ko. Before attacking, Feitan wasted some time to taunt her, giving her all the time she needed to use Gyo or Ko on her back. At the very least, she was in Ken (we know high level or even middle level fighters use Ken as their default stance), which is already a pretty good protection. In short, her hard skin reinforced by her strong aura was superior to Feitan's Ko. Her skin alone wouldn't have been enough. We know that Chimera Ants are much stronger physically than humans, but there's no reason to believe that physical attacks are ineffective against them. Uvogin is overall a lot more powerful physically than the average Squadron Leader, yet physical attacks could affect him, even when he was fighting people far weaker than he was (the Shadows Beasts, Kurapika).
    Last edited by Django; August 13, 2013 at 05:42 PM.

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