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Translations: Gintama 506 (2)
I also thought they could have been simply hacked, but my biggest issue with this theory was that - If you could alter the info on the radar this much (not just speed but also number). Then you could also simply erase Sunwoo presence altogether, and right now Shioon would still be punching away at Murim special forces.
But as i was re-reading the chapter Ketsurou posted i realized this wouldn't be a very good idea. - An unannounced arival on the island would be effectively no different from an attack. And since this is goverment restricted area, they would have legal right to use force, lethal force even. BUT, Because Sunwoo announced themselves the whole thing is much more politically correct. This is the part i was missing
The doctor said that Shioon reminded him of someone but he said that someone is not from 30 years ago the doctor said his official duel is from 30 years ago but if he was reminded of someone and he said it was a fuckers face that means that is not an official duel but more like a brawl i think its Chun-Woo or Sosul's Grandfather or the head of blood moon school that was destroyed and banished
---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------
For those wondering what the type of helicopter the elders are on, it's the Agustawestland AW139 Luxury version.
The Agustawestland AW139 Luxury version can seat 8 passengers(4 at back, 2 at the middle and 2 on the front facing the other passengers).
While the Agustawestland AW139 Transport version can seat 15 passengers.
So if it's 5 helicopters, and 4 of those are the Transport version, then 4x15=60.
60, at least.
As for Shik witnessing the massacre by Unwol, I don't believe that at all, however I do recognize the possibility that Shik may have had that unpleasant experience with Unwol at some other time. That said I favor the idea that the person is someone else from the Sunwoo, a previous clan head who also embodied that incredible fighting spirit.
Last edited by 4ghost; June 23, 2013 at 10:37 PM.
All of Sunwoo and even Shioon will be surprised if they say that Shioon is just missing for a day or two because Shioon thinks that his broken hand was healed that he was unconscious for a week and even the ghost doctor will want Shioon more hahaha
I really want to see the face of smig face and mustache butler after hearing the news from MMA that Sunwoo's gaju just returned i imagine it will be a WTF face for the 2 of them and smug face will be angry that even a bomb cant kill Shioon and ask ryuji if Shioon's on the deaths door when they left
1) Flying over and under the radar is possible, and would show one while the others remained under radar like you said. But, the ETA was given based on radar information, not simply Sera saying "yeah, guys, we'll be there in 20." Your theory does not explain the false ETA, which was based on the governments own systems.
2) This is the South Korean Government we are talking about here. They don't just have radar, and it is not that easy to sneak up on any government power with a force of 5+ helicopters.
It is far more plausible to suggest that they were simply hacked, especially since the kid said "no problem, I've hacked them before." If you can actually get in to a system, manipulating radar isn't that difficult for a hacker of that level.
In regards to your first point I don't believe my theory is flawed at all. Perhaps it would be flawed if I stated that the Sunwoo only deployed 5 helicopters for this mission, but their is the possibility that 6 or more were used. In which case, as I said before, have that 1 fly clearly in the radars path while all others are ahead flying below the radars scope.
In regards to the second point it is true that I don't know all of the methods of detection that are at the South Korean Governments disposal, but NOE is a flying tactic used to minimize detection and helicopters are particularly well suited for it. For instance Seal Team 6's successful foray into Pakistan for Bin Laden. Also considering that it is a remote seemingly "unimportant" island to those outside of the SMD many of those methods of detection may not have been at their disposal. There is also no telling just what year this is in the story and if South Korea has their own Satelite to use as part of their detection system. I believe their first successful launch was the first month of this year.
Last edited by 4ghost; June 24, 2013 at 08:00 AM.
It is true that we don't know what other technology the island team has, but even going with radar alone your theory only explains the invisibility of the other helicopters and not the false ETA.
Wow, seems like I am the only one around here that didn't like this chapter? The fight - actually it wasn't that much of a fight - did last way too long in my view. Nothing much happened, again. Shioon did his usual stuff being badass and shit, impressing everyone around him but not me as a reader anymore and that's the kicker in my case. That's why I was relieved when I saw the last panel. Now I hope for some real action from Elder Kwon, but something tells me that there won't be an all out clash between the two grand masters. The Doc doesn't seem to be worried about the Sunwoo Clans arrival. Elder Kwon should teach him some manners.
Well it seems not! http://www.mangahere.com/manga/the_b...s/c104/11.html
If you just go to NW chap104, when Unwol is just going to be imprisoned since he is telling Ryu about the BOT accident and that he need to find another master, he has long hairs.
So we can assume author just changed Unwol appearance on the fly, making this little mistake.
Above radar.......................... H(ETA 20 minutes)
Below radar............................................................ HHHHH(ETA 10-15minutes)
I think you missed my point, they intentionally wanted a helicopter to be detected with a 20 minute ETA at the point when their main forces were 5, 10 or 15 minutes ahead of that ETA.
that or they had the helo traveling at half speed to bend the eta from the first time they would be in radar range then they would progressively pick up speed
The glasses guy as was mentioned, seems to be a lot delusional. I see it funny how he "needs glasses to see better" if you know what I mean
What Doctor Sik remembered, as disgusting may be as in similar story situations - younger himself, when he was stubborn, or high spirited, and the world was not so forgiving for him. So now he wants to show kindly to Shioon, how the world is... to educate him on that. Maybe some later time, we will see something of Doctors Sik past.. Of course it might not be it, but it is 0,33 probable. Anyway.. that someone wasn't mentioned without purpose - something must be shown in the future.
Theories about Shioon's Dad, the father being someone from Murim would explain how he is so "fast learning" and being a genius. But such father had to leave Shioon very early, because if he were a Murim, he would not let Shioon be bulied in school, he would teach something of martial arts or just physical exercising or stamina on the early days of Shioon's childhood.
Also lets remember - Shioon went to the school that was meant for kids of those who were from Murim, and some normal ones at that. But that would also prove the above theory.
For the helicopters I agree the politics of informing of arrival was right course of action, and I imagine one of the choppers were with "radar on" and flying high enough from the surface of water so it was seen, others could have just followed that one in sight and fled very low to the water - which is hard to detect I suppose.
Maybe Doctor Sik, from the beginning was frustrated that he got involved with the Sunwoo clan, and wanted a way out of it at the same time seen as "not suspicious" action for government. So all those rules in duel, were made to take time and don't let anything to happen to Shioon (I mean for him to be not dead or similar). He now should feel safe, because he is needed to fulfill his promise to grant one request for the Gaju of Sunwoo. This theory is also proved by his choice to just stand and not attack, letting Shioon do whatever he wishes... So Shik wanted just a way out of this situation, and also by handing over a token of granting of wish, he secured a future assurance that he will definitely see Shioon another time, and will be to talk to him, probably about his interest - the rebirth stuff. (I dont know if it were conscious or not, but its favorable for Sik in ways mentioned).
And as I mentioned before fight with doctor, I hate fights that involve acupuncture/acupressure points.. I like more fights where opponents use their full capability, not where one is handicapped and still fights unable to show so much.
All this incident might be just on rumor level, and now widely known. But lets remember how Elder Kwon behaved with clanmates attacking some clans, and then saying that it was just Sunwoo clan reorganizing and their Shioon was attacked. So I believe on same pattern Elder Kwon might do something aggressively and then claim that "hey, the gov tried to steal our Gaju".
Nice thoughts also, about the blood and bone (or whats the name) clan going on rampage and exterminating murim some years ago and relating it to Sik being also advanced doctor and some fighting 30 years ago... Maybe it is conncected.. maybe some later on we will hear something about past even more... In a shorter manner I prefer, as whats happening in nowadays excites more in a way.
About what is to happen next - If Shioon is consciouss no fighting and agressive things will happen. If that would be not the case Sunwoo might at least kill all the SMF, and thake Manager Jung as hostage, leaving just Ju Sik behind. That would show em not to mess with Sunwoo.
Last edited by Jyothir; June 26, 2013 at 01:20 AM.
Its called ETA "estimated time of arrival" its the fancy word of saying they will arrive more or less 20 mins the government estamated the time the helicopter will arrive they didnt say the helicopter will arrive at exactly 20 mins and besides we don't know how long doctor and shioon are fighting if the fight only last 5 mins then we can say that they feed the wrong ETA but if the fight last 15-17 minutes then the ETA is correct about rest of the helicopters either they arrive a bit late and use the first helicopter as a decoy to let them enter in the airspace or the fly low like the guys that hunt osama binladen they fly low in the mountains to avoid detection
Last edited by kidopitz27; June 24, 2013 at 05:29 PM.