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If Nagato was an orphen and his parents died to famine and Yahiko still gets killed, Nagato wouldn't have gone postal? No, there'd be no story then. Kishi used the death of Nagato's parents as the compass to show how Nagato passion to protect his new family led to his undoing.Quote:
Yes you did. You claimed the actions on the field were only modern strategies employed when they've been used for millenia.Quote:
And is that because the war did that to HER? Once again, we don't know how the war affected her. We know she's different from before, but we don't know the cause of it. Was it because her lover died? Was she gang-raped in a subsequent battle? Was Nagato's psychosis rubbing off on her? Was she under the influence on the Rinnegan? We simply don't know.Quote:
They killed around 100,000 zetsus, Naruto got around 20? They sealed half of the Edo Tensei, Naruto sealed 0. Just because their achievements aren't "spectacular" doesn't mean they did nothing. Once Piece's "battle" was just a cameo runway. Reintroduce everyone in the series to do a token move. Ho-hum The war was initiated from a pirate leader who hadn't even been introduced into the stroyline yet. Luffy scurries from one person the next, watches Ace die, then War is over. That's not a war, that's a battle at best. In FMA did I care about the Northern XO or the old Shin bodyguard? No, I could have cared less. Did anyone else of importance die in the battle? Nope. Did the coup make important advances against the humonculus, some but nothing that was essential to the defeat of the enemy. At least the Shinobi Alliance helped extract the Jyuubi out of Obito. That has at least some relevance.Quote:
I can't comment on this war because it's not over yet. But Kishi has foreshadowed that the outcome this time will be diffeent than other wars and Naruto will be the main reason why. He had Naruto hint at accomplishing this by some of his actions, but Kishi hasn't resolved the main issue yet. I'm betting the showdown between Sasuke and Naruto will be Kishi's answer.Quote:
When were the Suno hurting for money? Tobriama did think that Uchiha were more than there emotions. He had faith in Madara when no one else did. Their arrogance brought down the Uchiha not their love of their dying brethern,Quote:
No, it doesn't. Just because you know player X wants to attack the Superbowl, doesn't tell you that person Y is also attacking as well. Those two dots were not shown being connected by Konoha. Iinstead a vague statement, "'Player Z' is attacking" instead. Is Z, X? Is Z, X and Y? The truth is never revealed.Quote:
Where? There'is no evidence for it. You're speculating but it'sKibo so you gotta speculate which is why I don't post much in that forum. He could easily learn his next ability without having to goto Hueco Mundo. It wasn't a prerequisite.Quote:
Was it prepared before the Kyuubi was released? No. Was the Kyuubi resealed within minutes after being released? Yes, it was. No prolonged preparation is required so there is no problem for all the events to proceed within a few years. No plothole.Quote:
Yes but what TIME was sarutobi training under Hashirama? Was it before the village was founded or was it after? We simply don't know. Where are they cllaimed to be older? They just had siblings who had died. You can't prove that Hashirama's dead siblings were 10 years his senior either.Quote:
Is Asuma 60 years old? No, Sarutobi is at least 20 years older than he is. Are Kankuro, Temari, and Gaara less than 10 years younger than their father? They clearly are not. Are Hashirama amd Madara less than 10 yeers younger than their fathers? They are not. Kushina, Kurenai and Sasuke's momther are all well into adulthood when their children are born. Couples have kids in their adult lives, not when they are 10. All the examples support this fact. Mito's age at giving birth is critical for your argument that Tobi is 70. If she has a child at 20 then Tobi just turned 80. If Tsunade's mom has a child at 20 then it Tobi just turned 90. Your problem is that Izuna is from Tsunade's grandparents era. You can bob and twist as much as you like but you can't evade the fact that Izuna is just too damn old to be a black-haried youth. Izuna is still a worse plothole that Obito.Quote:
No, all that Kish said was "and then one day..." . How long is that? A week, a year, a decade? We have no clue. All we know is that Izuna "died", time passed while the Uchiha fought the village. then the Uchiha surrendered. In Hashirama's falshback Izuna was injured by Tobriama when Madara was pre/teenager, when reconciliation occurs, Madara is shown as an adult. Almost a whole decade had transpired.Quote:
Was Gaara given longevity after he was ressurected? There's nothing special about Izuna to suggest that he doesn't age like normal people. The only thing Izuna gave was his eyes to his brother, nothing else. So yeah why would one expect that Izuna would be a black-haired Tobi when it's not chronologically or physicologically possible? it's just your disgust of Obito that supports it.Quote:
It's completely far-fetched since their fate-altering abilites claim their eyesight. Only the Uzumaki's were endowed with strong life force because of their Senjuu lineage. The Uchiha were not. You're speculating, there is no evidence.Quote:
And Kakuzu isn't a human being anymore. Next failed example? Madara fought the village because his brother died. If Izuna was alive he wouldn't be compelled to fight the villlage due to his love of his brother. Seriously, how do you explain Izuna being dead for 10 years while his brother still fought the village, or is he alive and hiding while Madara attacks the village. Both arguments are weak.Quote:
Obito doesn't have the plothole of being a 90+ year old shinobi who runs around like he's 20. Obtio doesn't have the problem of physiologically being a young man with black hair. Obito doesn't have to explain why the hell did he sit on his ass for 45 years to begin the destruction of the world when he had the ability to start it when he "died". Yeah Izuna has plenty of plotholes that can't ben waived off because their is no absolutely evidence to support that storyline, just a a desire for Tobi to not be Obito.Quote:
Correction, not everything in the deatabook has been written into the manga. If it was, you wouldn't need the databook. When you want to make an argument you have to quote the correct source, and that's the manga. If it's not in the manga, then you can't claim it as truth. If the manga doesn't esyablish the goalposts you can't move the goalposts because you read something in a databook. That's what you're trying to do here.Quote:
I'm not the one trying to invoke plotholes without connecting the dots. That's all you. You have 3 points: X, Y, and Z. You know the order but you don't know how much time has expired between X and Y, X and Z or Y and Z, but you want to claim a plothole anyway. That's just a fool's errand because you're not citing the manga for your evidence but the databook and speculation on your part.Quote:
It's called a plot-twist. We've seen several in this series. Orochimaru was the main evil guy, but actually he was a member of the Akatsuki. Pain was in charge of hte Akatsuki, but it was actaully Tobi who was the real mastermind. Now Tobi is just a lackey of Madara. Are you really that surprised? Is it really that incomprehensible? It's one of the oldest plot devices in manga.Quote:
Uh, you just did by way of argument claiming that Kakashi is 30 and there is no way Yahiko could meet Tobi because of a time plothole. The manga never gave Kakshi's age nor when Yahiko died. You invented an plothole with info from the databook to make your argument since there was no evidence in the manga. You can't make that claim because your evidence isn't in the manga.Quote:
No it didn't. It showed the crossroads but not the patch Kakashi had chosen. He clearly didn't choose the route you envisioned, so no retcon.Quote:
Last edited by Brill; January 10, 2014 at 02:34 PM.
Dissapointment ? No , I don't think so . In this arc , we get to know a lot .
- The masked man is actually Obito .
- We get to know about Minato's character better .
- Tobirama's character .
- Hashirama's character .
- Sasuke's decision .
- Sage's backstory
- The Jinchruuriki of the Jūbi
These are the things that I have in mind right now . Although I respect all the opinions , saying that this arc is a dissapointment ... I think you're going too far .
Then there was the problem of abusing Kabuto's insanely coincidental resurrection of Kin and Gin to further the Tobi/Mazou plot without ripping out Kurama until... Holy hell, now? It contributed to dragging out the plot 100 chapters, which I think has left a lot of us with resentment upon reading the acronym "ET". If he was going to drag out the story anyway, why do it with the uninteresting Tobi fights (there are many) when he went out of his way to resurrect a bajillion characters that could drag the story out in every which way humanly imaginable?!
Lol at slitting the death-gods belly to be able to summon the fallen hokages
some kind of deathGOD if he just gets his belly slit that easily
Last edited by badluckartist; January 11, 2014 at 07:34 AM.
the average life span was 30 years? During a time where young children were considered old enough to fight and kill in a war? During a time were "many" children were being killed? Couples in this world wouldn't be having children as "adults", since them even getting to adulthood was questionable. The series actually supports my argument more then yours, because there would have been little reason to wait that long before having a child given the likelihood of death before they even reached that age. As for your "examples", Sarutobi has at least one other child, so you can't claim anything towards him. The Suna siblings on the other hand support my argument, since their mother would have been between 11 to 18 when she had Temari (Her twin brother Yashamaru was 27 when he died, years before the start of the series). The same with Hashirama and Madara. And nothing is "critical" to my argument, as I have already pointed out. This is just one of several bricks being used. And as already mentioned, the whole "too old" thing doesn't even work for you anymore.
The very next time they met was after Izuna had died and Madara gained EMS, with Madara literally telling them that Izuna had died from the wounds that Tobirama had given him. And then the next day was when they reconciliated, followed by building the village. There wasn't any fighting the village by the Uchihas and they were surrendering before Izuna had died. Please, show me how this Madara is different from this Madara. Or how Hashirama is any different, or how Tobirama is any different. Please show me how you managed to get a whole decade to pass when that makes no sense at all.
If he still suffered from their deaths, but that wasn't made clear. The death's of Nagato's parents was more a transition device to his new family of Yahiko and Konan. During his training with Jiraiya, Nagato comes to the realization of his new goal in life, protecting his friends. However, when that goal fails he then goes postal. If he was still traumatized or reliving the death of his parents as Yahiko was killed, then one could argue that the two events are linked but the events are not connected, they just happen separately.Quote:
Um post #80. They were rarely around. It wasn't until modern times that they became commonplace in warfare. It's a meaningless emulation if it goes against previous examples and still ends up just the same.Quote:
Konan was a happy girl when Jiraiya left, the next time you see her she's a hapless pawn in the Yahiko's death, then flash forward 20 years and she's ruthless. But when she changed is never shown, nor the events that changed her perception on life. Was it war or some other tragic event in her life is never given to us.Quote:
Did Naruto kill all 100,000 zetsu, no. Did he seal the Edo Tensei? No. Did he tell the the Shinobi Alliance that the Zetsu can completely copy the the chakra signature of any shinobi. No. Did he directly release Edo Tensei? No, he did not. Did he teach the Shinobi Alliance to use Earth Wall techniques to buffer the attacks of the Jyuubi? No. So there is a lot that Naruto hasn't done. You may not find it impressive but that is your opinion. I don't need to reread One Piece. Once was enought and it's still a trumped up battle, not even a war. Killing off humonculi was neat, but did it matter in the final battle? Nope.Quote:
Why would I comment on the others. They all continue to perpetuate the cycle of hatred that plagues the shinobi world commenting on them would prove nothing. Naruto has been foreshadowed since the Isle of Waves as a ninja who bucks the system. Having Naruto change the minds of others by his nindo is a very naive way to fix a very complex problem so kishi hasn't been directly addressing it. Naruto says he wants to be a shinobi greater than all the Hokage, he will achieve that in this conflict. How it manifests itself is going to be a huge challenge that Kishi may fail at.Quote:
Where was that stated? The problems with the Sand program were internal not financial. There's no evidence that they're doing it for money. Just because Fugaku respected Itachi decision to protect the village doesn't prove that he and ther others weren't arrogant in their desire for a coup.Quote:
No, they we're expecting the Sound village, maybe. But not the Sand. Hayate never made it back with the crucial intel. He was tracking Kabuto not the sand leader.Quote:
And he failed again in Hueco Mundo. he didn't get his hollow form in check he lost control. That's why the whole thing was unncecssary in the hirst place.Quote:
And how long is that? An hour, a day, a week? You don't think the mist ninja had their resealing tools ready after the Sanbi escaped its human prison? Kyuubi was sealed in minutes, same can hold true for the Sanbi. Still no plothole.Quote:
Still doesn't mean Madara or Hashirana weren't among the eldest brothers now were they.Quote:
And Mito lived into old age. She didn't die at 30 now did she? Just because times were tough doesn't mean Mito had a kid at 10. They may be more inclined to have more children because of the death rates, but did Mito? We don't know. All examples prove otherwise. There is a good 25 years between Konohamaru and Asuma. If Asuma were the younger sibling that means Konohamaru's parent had him in their 30's. Gaara's family also supports my case. If Yanimaru died at 27 (you're using that databook again aren't you.) Then Gaara's mom died at 21 giving birth to Gaara since Gaara killed Yaniimaru when he was 6 Gaara at 6. Kankuro and Termari were born when she was 19? 20? It proves my point. People have children in their adults years regardless of their environment. You have no bricks. You have no foundation. All you have is a house of cards fueled by flawed speculation and a desire for Tobi to not be Obtio.Quote:
Aside form the eyes, it's hard to say how much time passed between Izuna death and The battle between Madara and Hashirama. The decade thing was my error thinking he got injured during the battle at the river. However, it could easily be years see the two seen each other again. The only phrase the Kishi links between Izuna's death and the village ofrming was "and then one day". How much time that flows is unknown.Quote:
Oh, and assuming Izuna would not age is perfectly fine? Was his body abnormal? Yes, but that doesn't mean it's correct to assume that Tobi wouoldn't age if he was was someone who was 90+ years old. And it's repeatedly shown that Izuna can't be Tobi because he's just too old to be in a young body.Quote:
Just because the Uchiha can peform Izanagi doesn't mean they don't age. Two completely differnet things. A person who is no longer human, a person who hops bodies every 3 years, and Toads. They don't explain how a 90 year old person is in a 30 year old body who doesn't employ any of those techniques.Quote:
If Izuna was Tobi then Tobi would have white hair and be walking around with a staff like an old man. There is nothing to suggest he'd be otherwise. He's a normal Uchiha. Does the Rinnegan work on corpses that have decomposed for years? The fighitng between Madara and Hashirama went on for some time. Not to mention that if Madara used Rinnegan on Izuna he'd be blind since Izuna already gave his eyes to his brother Then Izuna sits around doing nothing for 45 years before putting plans into action after being "resurrected" Still too many plothoies.Quote:
You're right, he's probably older than 90 because he sure as hell isn't 70. Who's still human and fighitng at 90? Kakuzu, but he's he not human anymore. You trying to say an apple is an orange. I mean if Tob was nothing more than a pile of skin and gray phalangi you could have a point, However, Izuna isn't Kakuzu. So the black hair is still an issue you can't overcome. Sure Obito had to wait, but NOT 45 years before doing something. You can't explain that since noting of importance happened that would force him to wait 50 years before doing somthing since he has teh abilities to extract the bijuus from Day1. Obito's issues are nothing compared to these logisitcal fallacies that you're willing to overlook.Quote:
Databooks are supplementals. Just because they're writen by the same person doesn't mean they're BOTH part of the story. That's the error in logic. I don't have to read the databook to read the story on Naruto. Likewise the data you use for making arguments comes from the manga, not supplementals.Quote:
Nowhere in the manga does it say Kakashi is 30. You got that from the databook to invoke a plothole because you're claiming that Obito can't meet Yahiko because of a time plothole. Tha manga doesn't give us any dates for when Yahiko dies, when Madara meets Obito, or Obito meets Yahiko. But you claim plothole because of an age you read in a databook.Quote:
So a mastermid can only be a strong person, huh? I must have miseed that commandment and Tobi's strength was never challenged by anyone until Konan showed up. Just because Tobi didn't wipe the floor with Naruto or Sasuke demonstrates that everyone was dumbed down in fromt. Tobi just didn't tip his hand. You want to overesitmate Tobi's powers that is up for you, but it doesn't show dumbing down.Quote:
Just because they're written by the same person doesn't give them equal weight for making plothole declarations. Dish Kishi give you an exact date when Yahiko died? No? So he died during the Third World War. Was it the begiining, middle, or end? We don't know? When does Obito "die" during the Third World War? Was it the beginning, middle, or end? Oh that isn't provided either, huh? So you can't point directly in the manga that the order of events didn't occur as the way Kishi portrays them. Why? Because Kakashi is allegedly 30 years old even through the manga doesn't tell us that.Quote:
Unless you wanted to give Kaskashi some much needed character development which he hasn't had for 400 chapt6ers.Quote:
Last edited by Brill; January 14, 2014 at 08:26 AM.
mention it with Naruto twice, stating it was one of the two events that changed him. They were linked and it's made quite obvious.
Me not finding it impressive is more of a majorities opinion, because there isn't anything much to find impressive about their involvement. You clearly do need to reread it if that's what you think happen. And yeah, killing off the Homunculi did matter in the final war. Not only did it tie the present events to past events, but their deaths played a key role in defeating Father and providing closure.
Here. We were outright told that money was the reason. And again, what arrogance? The coup wasn't a spar of the moment idea or greedy power-grab. It was directly in response to their treatment by the higher-ups, a point that has been reinforced several times now.
You're the one who's argument has no bricks or foundation. You're the one who's argument relies upon absolutes. You claimed that it wasn't possible to get pregnant that young, and I showed otherwise. My argument, aside from the fact that there's more to it then simply Mito's age, only requires the possibility and until a definitive answer is granted, it's still perfectly valid.
There aren't any plotholes, at least not compared to Obito. Let's list them: 1) Why did Obito attack Konoha with the Kyuubi? 2) He had no reason to do that except for revenge, and if it was revenge, then why didn't he go after Kakashi, the guy who actually killed Rin? 3) If he went there for the Kyuubi, why, when the Kyuubi couldn't be taken until last? There was no need to strike then because he had the means to remove a Bijuu from a host regardless of their seal. 4) How is it that Minato did not recognize his own student? 5) And why did Obito talk about waiting years for that moment? He wasn't pretending to be Madara yet and he didn't intend for Minato to survive. 6) Why did he wait 15 years to begin his plan? 7) Why did he even need to form Akatsuki, when we have clearly seen that he would have been capable of sealing the Bijuus all alone? 8) Why did he wipe out the Uchiha clan? He had no beef with them. 9) And on that note, why did he take an interest in Sasuke and then never use him? It wasn't as if Sasuke wasn't available for it. He basically gave Sasuke EMS and then left the boy at his base while he went off to complete the very plan Sasuke was suppose to be used for. 10) Why was he upset at Nagato using Rinne Tensei when he later on made it clear he hadn't intended to revive Madara? 11) Who was he gonna use it on? 12) Why did Obito pretend to be an idiot for the first part of the saga, even around Zetsu? He had no reason to pretend to be a completely different person, Zetsu knew who he was. 13) What was even the point of the Tobi persona? 14) Why did Obito start a war? It hasn't help his goal at all and actually hindered it more. 15) Why did he have Kisame take a fall against Kirabi when Kirabi was needed? If he had taken Kirabi then and there, then all he would have needed was Naruto. 16) Speaking of which, why did Obito allow Naruto to be? He could have easily grabbed him at any moment, especially before anyone knew of his ability. 17) Why did all Obito ever use was Kamui, when he had plenty of powerful techniques available even before gaining the Rinnegan? There isn't any reason that Obito should have limited himself. It isn't as if using them would have spoiled anything. 18) What was the deal with Kisame reconzing him? It should have been clear that he couldn't have been Madara just by looking at him. 19) And how could Obito have formed the Bloody Mist and ruled Kiri? What was the purpose of that? And 20) if this has all been about Rin, why did he not just revive her? He had the means to do so easily.
Itachi was four. Nine years later, Itachi became Anbu captain. It was around that time that Sasuke was seven, right before the massacre happen. That means at the beginning of the series, when Sasuke and Naruto were 12, Kakashi was 27 (like the databook says) and the three year timeskip puts him at 30 (again, like the databook says). So while the manga doesn't outright state it, it does show how many years had past, allowing us to come to the same conclusion. As for the rest of that, the manga tells us that Obito's death and his meeting Madara had to have happen between Kakashi's 13th birthday and when he was 15, since as shown above, he was 27 when the series began, 12 years after Naruto's birth.
Yahiko was specifically called out as being between 25 and 30. So he clearly wasn't a child when he died. Yet that got retcon to him and the others not looking much older then when Jiraiya left them. For any of that to work, the Third World War would have had to have kept going for at least 10 years, which is impossible. And I already showed that Obito had to have died at most two years before Naruto's birth, which would have put it at the end of the war. There just isn't any way that Yahiko's death could have happen within that timeframe. It's a plothole, regardless of whether you rely solely on the manga or not.
damn you, Ridouking, lol.
Obito got played by Madara. Madara isn't smart, just has common sense and took advantage of an opportunity to exploit a pissed off, broken hearted young man connected to Konoha is all. Afterwards, he discarded the young buck and is now on his way to returning to the world of the living with his original power growing back and eventually carrying out his ultimate plan of Aizening the entire world with a giant, moon-sized eyeball.
Yeah, that's basically the overall scheme behind the entire series that is Naruto. I want Jiraiya back, f**k the bullsh*t.
And are they equally weighed by Nagato? They were not. Yahiko's death is what sent him down the path because he realized he was just fooling himself after his parent's death.Quote:
Then stop trying to waive off the tactics as bogus because they're only used during modern times.Quote:
I can't ignore what doesn't exist. You can't show how the war impacted Konan because there isn't any material on it. Instead you show her wanting to help her freinds as proof, put fail to prove casuality because she would have helped them regardless.Quote:
Tell that to the 50,000 dead shinobi. Did Naruto determine that the zetsu were masquerding as Alliance Shinobi? No, that was Sakura. Was Naruto able to detect them? Yes. Did he take them all out? No. Most were kileld by the Alliance. Just because the sealings went unabated doesn't triviliaze their importance to the events on the battlefield. They did protect themselves from the first Jyubii blast. Did they assist in removing the bijuus from the Jinchurriki. Yes they did. They may not be great accomplishments in your book, but they are accomplsihments. You can try to dismiss them but it doesn't change the fact that they occurred.Quote:
Naruto solves the problems in front of him, but he hasn't addressed the biggest challenge assigned to him by Jiraiya and Minato. Breaking the cycle of hate. It's a humongous task and simply talking won't resolve it. Some action must be able to resolve the bitterness between the various Villages have a new outlook on life. Only then will the cycle be broken. Simply beeating Madara isn't gonna do it. That's why I think Kishi will fail to resolve this task leaving Naruto's mark in annals of shinobi history a bit suspect.Quote:
And if they had attacked 9 years earlier that would be a valid point. But they didn't. They obviously managed to control Shikaku, maybe the Kazekages' jutsu secured the money to train new forces. We simply don't know the reaason why they attacked the Konoha village.Quote:
Using pronouns by themselves proves nothing.Quote:
Wrong. His powers during the match with Uquiora (sp?) had the Hollow powers once again overtake Ichigo and leave him just as fast when the battle was done. There was no control. Hueco Mundo was a complete waste of paper.Quote:
The plan was to have the Sanbi break out of Rin and go on a rampage. Even if Rin died the Mist planned to carry her corpse back for extraction. The preparations are there and the time for reformation is implied to be quick.Quote:
Considering they were the oldest living, yeah it does.Quote:
I don't need to read about feudal eras. The question is what are the conditions during the nomad era of Naruto. Yes times are tough and people's lifespans are shorter because of constant war and famine, but does that mean the mating practices changed as well? All examples regardless of the people have kids as adults not as preteens. We know plenty about the Sarutobi clan. The Thirds had Asuma well into his 30's. Even though Asuma has a silbing they had Konohamaru at least well into their 30's if their older than Asuma, and mid 20's if not. 17 is a lot older than 10.Quote:
No I have a foundation and it's called algebra, which you seem to have forgotten. You're whole argument is based on "well it potentially could happen", not that it "did" happen. But the math doesn't add up. Hashirama, Madara, and subsequantly Izuna woulf well be into their 90's in the current time line. Yet Tobi doesn't look like and old man with white/grey hair he looks like a person of middle years. You have yet to explain this, you've come up with several hand-waving theories when upon further analysis completely faill on their face.Quote:
Time between eyes and trucel. It implies some time passed between Madara getting the EMS and reconciliation. It wasn't immediately after Izuna's death.Quote:
None of them were disproven, they're still there. That's been your problem. You just closed your eyes but it didn't make them go away. I find it ironic that you invoke two individuals who removed their humanity years ago as reasons why old people can have black hair. Is Tobi like them? A body-hopping snake or a boneless mass of grey phalangi? He's neither, so why once again why would you assume he wouldn't age normally? He's noithing like them. Apples and oranges. Chiyo keeping up? She uses puppets she doesn't move around like some spry 30-year old. If Oonoki couldn't fly he'd be restrained as well not to mention that he's not of Madara's generration he's younger. Once again, apples and oranges but you're still in denial about him being to damn oldQuote:
I'm not saying that his body was normal, but just because it's abnormal means it follows the rules of other abnormal bodies in Naruto. Just because abnormal body A has black hair when its 90 years old mean that abnormal body B will too. That's the fallacy of your argument, Tobi just regenerates damaged body parts, there is nothing to suggest that he wouldn't age normally. Nothing at all.Quote:
Yes it does. That's what in you're denial about. A 90 year-old person has white hair. In Naruto and the real world. There is nothing to suggest that Tobi doesn't age like everyone else. He's not like Kakuzu and he's not like Orochimaru,, so why would you assume he does not age like everyone else? Why because he can regenerate his body parts? So what? Izuna is older than Onoki and Chiyo and they're pretty slow for ninja. Chiyo stays in place while Onooki flies! C'mon. You're using a flying ninja to cliam that 90+ year old people can run around fighitng ninja 1/3 their age. That's ridiculous.Quote:
And none of these are plotholes. They don't prevent Obito from being Tobi. You just don't like decisions Tobi did/did not make. They're not egregious ones that come up for Izuna foe being the wrong age and 60 year+ absence doing nothing while having hte ability to exact his revenge.Quote:
Yeah his body could regenerate lost limbs and things slid through him. The later being a ninjutsu. So just because you can regenerate body part means you can't age. Where does it say that in the manga.Quote:
And it's still not part of the story. When you critique a work of fiction you use the story material itslef not the databook, or cliffnotes or any other reference material. That information didn't make an apearance in the manga. If it did you wouldn't need the databook now would you. The problem is that you use the information incorrectly to invoke a "perceived" plothole. You want to confirm something that is already in the manga thar's fine, but it's not ok when the manga doesn't show a plothole, but you claim there is one because I take some data from a a databook, manipulate the data, then invoke a plothole. That is the real error in logic here.Quote:
First off, the Third Shinobi War was a multi-year conflict. Just because Itachi was 4 during the War doesn't tell us when he entered it. Second, having both Itachi and Sasuke enter the Academy at the same time doesn't establish the age difference between them. So you can't back calculate to figure out how old Kakashi is. Just because Itachi was an Anbu captain at 13 meant he killed his clan when he was 13. It was probably much later. he clearly doesn't look like a 13 year-old during the flashbacks. So yes, you still haven't established Kakashi's age via the manga nor have you shown when the three critical events happening during the war to expose the plothole. Try again.Quote:
Once again hindsight is 20/20. You think Minato would take the time to hunt down Sarutobi while his wife was being butchered by a mad-man trying to extract the Kyuubi? Not to mention he dies in the resealing to save the village. he didn't have much time or answers to solve anything. It's just petty.Quote:
Why is Choji's dad's estimate of how old Pain is have to do with when he died? When Yahiko dies he's an adult when he meets Tobi he's an adult. We don't know how much time elasped after their training finished before the Third War began. See my point? You're pulling stuff from everywhere and NONE of it tells us when Yahiko dies. Nothing shows it. It doesn't tell us if he died in the middle or the end? But you still claim plothole exen though you have yet to esatblish it.Quote:
And the knowledge which will allow Kakasshi to finally move on. Something he's needed for quite sometime.Quote:
Last edited by Brill; January 21, 2014 at 08:21 AM.
we do know the reason, as I mentioned before. And they never managed to control the Ichibi, which is why the Kazekage considered him a failure, as we were literally told upon his revival.
We were shown when he entered it, it was a key plot point. So it's you who needs to "try again".
In real life there are shades of grey....conflicted heros and good intention villians. This is off topic but it kind of resembles star wars in a way. The popularity of stars wars derived from the notion that small innocent actions can lead down a dangerous path and have large consequences. People relate to this notion and kishi has modeled his manga in a similar way.