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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
ok pleasr stay on topuc
no bashing including kishimoto
constructive complaints or criticism only
ideas for how it could have been better are also welcome
If you want an alternative storyline, in Naruto SD, sasuke just goes firestorm on konoha instead of all that happening.
well im cool with the idea of the war i just wanted it more epic
i was ok with madara until he decided to hump hashiramas leg instead of completing his plan and the fact that all 5 kages lived means madara killed absolutely no one but fodder, as the jyuubi killed the only semi-major characters
obito has been a major dissapointment
and i wanted to see more of kabuto
Disappointment? In this current war? Well, there's alot.
But when minato and the hokages appeared with his/their amazing epicness, my disappointment was gone.
In facr, My disappointment change to excitement.
It won't be long now, the fight between good and evil, the strongest ninja that kishi has been created was being brought back and they're all in the battlefield. And soon, theyre gonna fight to change the ninja world. This one hell of a fight that shouldn't miss by everyone.
And I think kishi save the best for last. No wonder, the hokages was the last ET that kishi has been brought back to the world. Because they're no doubt the biggest fish of the entire ninja world together with madara.
marshall you bring up a good point with the "strongest shinobi brought back" point
however i believe that the spamming of edo tensei has watered down the story line
i mean it takes away from what they died for and the importance of their death
dont get me wrong im glad to see more of ninato
but the way he died was so tragic and epic....
its almost cheating that whole moment to bring him back
As soon as the hokages stepped in my boredom knew no bounds. It was just another reason to stretch the war arc. Now the others are revived as well. This couldn't get any worse.
The kage aren't going to do nothing, because there isn't anyone to do anything against. Hashirama will be the only one, and that is because he's fight Madara. Naruto and Saauke are dealing with the jyuubi. The rest will watch from the side lines.
yea this hokage twist had potential, but the barrier cheerleader bearers that they have been reduced to makes bringing them back a mistake
i want to see some epic figjting, some death, some drama, some actual plot development
i really want to see kishi pull this thing back together at the end
The Hokages and the other Edo tensei characters should have never been brought back. The war should of been village against village. Konona and Suna on one side and Kiri, Iwa, and Kuma on the other. With Kabuto and Obito pulling the strings. Then only at the end do you have the villages unite with Sasuke arriving at that point.
You could of had numerous interesting fights and even created some unique characters for the war. Imagine reading every week wondering if your favorite character survives? But Kishi didn't want his young characters killing anyone. So we ended up with zombie and zetsu/juubi clones for them to fight. Kishi wanted a war, but one that was cleansed of all its brutality.
Last edited by Jessie; June 23, 2013 at 08:36 PM.
edo tensei wasnt all bad i think it was a metaphor it showed the worst of the past generation, it defiled the sacrifices made by the ninja of that generation and with the end of edo tensei I think it will signify the end of that era and the beginning of the new era, also it seems like kishimoto is making a point the new generation facing its past literally, just a thought
Last edited by c420smokey; June 23, 2013 at 11:37 PM.
For me the war hasn't been a disappointment. Sure, certain things could have been done better-if you have more time to develop every chapter, the overall quality would have certainly improved. However, if you look at the scenario at hand, the war has proceeded as well as it could have. It's on par with other shounen wars. One Piece, Bleach, Full Metal Alchemist. They all follow the same general format with the token 1 or 2 deaths, elimination of all enemy lieutenants, a very big battle which never resembles a modern "war" on earth but that is what it is called in this medium. Naruto's setup was similar to other series but Kishi wanted to scale it so it would be grander than the typical war. Problem 1 was the scale. He wanted to involve all the Hidden Villages in this war so they could all acknowledge Naruto's awesomeness in the end. The reality is with 2-3 Akatsuki left, The Village of Fire could have done it all by themselves. So Kishi needed to bring in another force to engage 100,000 shinobi, enter the white zetsu and the lieutenants, the Edo Tensei. Kishi then proceeds with some interesting flanking movements and battles happening in 3 different locations making it look like a full-scale war.
So the war is progressing but the zetsu are getting clobbered and the whining starts. The true role of the zetsu (infiltrators) doesn't become apparent until day 2 so the slack has to be taken up by the Edo Tensei. The Edo Tensei were handled poorly by Kishi. They certainly caused mayhem but since Kishi held fast to his 3-chapter battle scenario without fail, some of the fights came off rushed and rather unfullfilling. But there are plots twists in this war. The war does ebb and flow. The zetsu start using guerilla tactics and assasinating the medical corps and varous sentries in the middle of the night. They cause strife and mayhem as soldiers don't know which troops are the enemy and which are comrades. This was a great development on Kishi's part. The only issue was having to deal with 1 whole day of uninteresting battles to get to this point. But the zetsu served their purpose. They are meant to be a decoy. To stop the advance of the Shinobi Alliance as Tobi prepared the Moon's Eye Plan.
Enter Kabuto. Plot twist #2. Not only does he give Tobi decent unkillable forces to fill out the zetsu ranks he has the greatest trump card of all, Edo Madara. Madara's original goal was to be revived so he could control to Jyuubi and initate his Moon's Eye Plan. However. now Madara in an Edo Tensei. He doesn't need to be revived and he can engage his his eternal rival Hashirama in eternal combat. This may be the endpoint of Madara's original goal, but opportunity provided him a different path to achieve it. People are coimplaining that Madara too easily gave up on his Moon Eye Plan. But if his plan is to meet Hashirama again, the course of events provided him his goal and he didn't need to Jyuubi to achieve it. Why work for your goal if you goal is coming to you?
So the last piece of the puzzle is Tobi. Mere mentiong of his name causes consternation among many. This character was not hyped by Kishi but by the readership. People thought that since he survived a battle with Minato that he was a god among shinobi. Since he was the main villian that he was evil incarnate and had no redeemable or sympathetic qualities. The problem with "Tobi" is that he DIDN'T have any characerization at all. He was just a guy in a mask who would offer crypitc comments every now and then. But the readership placed all their hopes and fears into this masked man since Nagato became a failure since he had redeenmable qualities that apparently villans can't have those anymore. So when Tobi was revealed to be Obito the sky fell. How could the clumsy Obito become a challenge to the omnipotent Minato. How could a guy go crazy over seeing his unrequitted love die? How could a guy get warped by tragedy so that he hits the reset button? Manga uses this plot device frequently where inherrently good people go bad because of a tragedy they want to erase. It doesn't make Tobi a great character, it makes him a cliche character and one where there is practically no sympathy for. It still gets the job done but Obito is Kakashi's cross to bear, not Naruto's, and he gets the job done even if he'll never win a poll for manga's best villian.
I just asked myself when Minato learned how to use the Kyuubi-cloak, given he was, like, dead ...
This whole Edo thing is one of the reason the whole story went straight down the drain. Just let all those characters you built up thorugh the whole manga step down, because the people they were ment to surpass suddenly became alive again.
The whole problem i have is the arc itself. Suddenly the whole power-balance is completely wiffed, we suddenly have 2 super villains, one villain that suddenly is good again, then again two other villains that remain neutral for the time beeing and in the end we have all of them suddenly beeing the criminal mastermind one after the other, always topping the predecessor. And then the manga ends with everybody flopping their dicks at some random justu, they just "happend" to learn by thinking over vast periods of time, in middle of the climax of battle.
I don't even know when Naruto became disappointing, but it's all clear know. And with every new plot twist this story just gets even more out of control. I hope the ending will be satisfying, as reading it shall be my reward for following this manga from the beginning.