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I find it rather hard to talk about the shit stain we have now without doing some kind of a bashing directed at Kishimoto. After all, he's the one behind all of this, there's no one to blame other than the author.
I mean I could go on and on and on, nitpicking even the smallest of details, but I'm pretty sure by the time I'm finished with it, you'd be bored to tears (just like I am with this manga now), and I'd most likely shoot myself in the foot.
So, have it at you, the 6-6-6 reasons of why this "war" is a PHAIL:
Bad things about the war:
1) Doesn't know what it's trying to achieve, fights that are being showcased just to have some obnoxious ending that leads to nowhere, or even better, fights that are completely pointless.
2) Sickening pacing, most of the time it goes far too long, but in some rare cases it's so fast I barely can understand just what the hell is going on. Almost completely invisible story progression.
3) Piss poor consistency, sometimes massive contradictions for the sake of fan-service.
4) Piss poor character development.
5) Piss poor character treatment. Thrown into the dumpster, flushed down the toilet, completely obliterated. Summoned quickly and en masse, only to be finished off and sealed even faster...Edo-Tensei in a nutshell.
5) Chit-chat for starters, chit-chat for the main course, jabbering for the desert.
6) No events that lead to some kind of a cliffhanger, a GOOD one mind you, one that leaves a reader to think about the very basic things like "what is going to happen to my favorite character? who is going to die next?" and so on.
Bad things about Madara:
1) Childish ideals.
2) Childish behavior.
3) Also a psychopath.
4) BFF of Hashirama, has random spasms and hard-ons just by looking at him, effectively ramming his sad remains of credibility into the ground.
5) A waste of time and waste of panel space. Does not bring anything new to the story. Does not bring anything new as a character. Acts like a clown, and should be taken as one.
6) Powers of a "God", but is constantly nerfed, so we're just left with this shallow imitation of what is supposed to be a powerful, evil villain, whose sole purpose now is to do nothing but piss and bore readers off.
Bad things about Obito:
1) The fact that he's Obito.
2) Massive plotholes, massive contradictions, massive mouth.
3) Inconsistent power. Even his hair is inconsistent.
4) When involved in a chapter, it massively suffers from infusion of out of this universe stupidity, thus ruining the said chapter, and all of the potential chapters coming next.
5) When involved in a chapter, around 90% of panel space is wasted on petty dialogues that make no sense, and in some cases, enforces extreme disgust.
6) Is the most accurate definition of the word "idiot".
Last edited by IChallengeYou!; July 11, 2014 at 05:34 AM.
In Naruto's world it's been shown that geniuses can do extraordinary things. What Minato did is no different than Sasuke learning how to use his MS powers so quickly. Difference here is Minato knew the exact workings of the seal and is working with chakra that has no consciousness thus making it nothing more than an energy source for him to use. I find it harder to believe the shit Naruto did with distributing chakra than what Minato did.
The problem is rather, that you just can't use the Kyuubi chacra like a pro when doing it for the first time. So he is dead, comes to life again and his first thought is: Well, I was one of the best ninjas out there, i better pull out that Kyuubi chacra i've never used before and control it perfectly for all eternity.
To be honest. Since every character can spend unlimited amounts of time in his own mind, while in the midst of battle, and train techniques this way (i don't even know how that stupid concept came up in the manga at all) i shouldn't be that surprising in the end.
What makes it really worse is actually the fact, that we had Naruto training this thing for full chapters. And that's what really pisses me off with this manga: It's Kishi's way of showing the progress of a character in rather slow pace and his behaviour of instantly deminishing this achievement, as there suddenly are other characters that naturally use this aswell, without the hard training.
clearly thats not going to happen, if so it would have already... no real plot, no true storyline, its like this is being written for 6 year olds..... just scream naruto and everything will be ok... what a let-down
It's alluded that Minato can also transfer and mold another person's chakra to fit the unique needs of other people. I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to do that to the Kyuubi's chakra that has no malice attached to it. Not to mention, he had to have studied the Kyuubi because of his wife and future son. And again, it's his seal, and he's a genius.
Honestly, I find it harder to believe that Naruto could transfer his chakra to thousands of people than Minato could control the Kyuubi's chakra through his own seal.
1) Correction. They know what they are trying to achieve. Just because it wasn't telegraphed to you 10 chapters beforehand doesn't make it crappy writing. Some things were predictable, some were not.
2) Pacing has been an issue with this arc. Too many action panels with insufficient development to give a flowing narrative.
3) What does fanservice have to do with the war?
4) What does character development have to do with the war? How much development do you expect from a war environment. You've had your "Neji, No!" moment, what more do you need?
5) Once again vague generalites that don't point to anything.
6) Since when is a cliffhanger required for a war scenario? Climaxes do not need mandatory cliffhangers. That is personal preference. Plus there are several scenarios that could be considered a cliffhanger like when Madara rejoins Naruto after disposing of the kages. The multiples attacks of the Jyuubi on the Alliance. Obito and Kakashi's duel impalement. The attack of Neji zetsu on Sakura. They may not be uber-spectacular cliffhangers but they would qualify for this unnecessary requirement.
1&2) He's self-centered, arrogant, and prideful that doesn't make him childish.
3) Most villians are psychopaths. It's sort of a prerequisite.
4) Yes, Madara and Hashirama are rivals just like every other rivalry out there. Naruto and Sasuke do the exact same thing.
5) Madara is probably the most interesting villian this series has produced. Pure unadulterated power and disdain. He's the embodiment of the cycle of hated that the current system is generating, the exact opposite of Naruto.
6) Indifference isn't the same as being nerfed. He's powerful, but not invincible. All final villians are shown to be godlike so the protagonist can overcome this challenge. It's shounen 101.
2) Surprisingly most of those plotholes are debunked upon reasonable analysis of the entire text, not just the latest chapter where people go into hysterics thinking the sky is falling.
3) Inconsitant power? Just because he doesn't show all his uber-moves in the first wave doesn't equate to inconsistancy. People have made this same error with all Naruto fights. Since A > B > C in terms of "power" it's inconceivable that C can beat A. Therefore since C went toe-to-toe with A their power levels are the same. Wrong. This is the fallacious source for all the inconsistancy to Obito's power levels.
5&6) You're confusing philosophy with intelligence. You can be intelligenct yet suffer from following a flawed philosophy. That is exactly what this war is about. Changing the current flawed ninja system and replacing it with a new system with a different philisophical ethos-that is what this war is about. You may not agree with obtio's warped philosophy on the origins of reality but that doesn't make him an idiot, a fool or tragic character, perhaps, but not an idiot.
How good is your reading comprehension? I did say that I wouldn't go in details as the post would be far too long. Way to go to contadict yourself as well: I'm not able to provide specific points, yet you go ahead to "check it out" and "correct" them. Wow.Quote:
1) Who's they? I said this war doesn't know what it's trying to achieve. Once again, your reading comprehension shows. I've said that a lot of the fights are pointless and have an ending that leads to nowhere. You haven't even addressed that point nor tried to counter it. Oh boy, this is going to be fun....Quote:
2) How the heck is this a correction if you agree with me?
3) The fact that it happens in this war? The fact that consistency and logic are thrown away for that specific action?
4) If you're fine with the way the characters are developed now, then by all means we don't really have a lot to discuss about then. Just because YOU'RE fine with it doesn't mean that others are too. Once again, not a correction, but your own preference.
5) Seriously? What was the point of pretty much every Edo-Tensei summon? They got thrown into the trashbin without anything significant being done by them or to them from the Author's standpoint. They were also summoned in very big numbers, which makes this even more pathetic, as they couldn't be explored and developed as they should've been. Once again, nothing to "correct" my point with, but you actually have the audacity to call it "vague" without providing anything coherent and logical as a counter-argument.
6) Since it doesn't make it boring. And I've said a "GOOD" cliffhanger, not a regular basis cliffhanger that leaves a bad taste in your mouth after reading the chapter.
1&2) You've pretty much described the definition of "Chidlish". His actions are immature, illogical, and are based purely on his own feelings and perception about the matter, rather than rational thinking.Quote:
3) Which is why he brings nothing new to the table. Glad we can agree on this one.
4) Naruto and Sasuke do not get hard-ons and random RAEP faces out of nowhere.
5) Opinions, opinions and preferences...I think that Tobi was the most interesting villain. Does it make it a universal fact? Nope. So you haven't corrected this point either.
6) He could very well stomp everyone with his Meteors and Perfect Susano'o, but just to give an alliance a chance, he can't. His power is nerfed, his intelligence is nerfed. Instead of protecting the Juubi, and minimising the risk of it getting hurt, he sits down and waits for his BFF Hashirama. Once again, fail on your part.
1) The word "and?" does not correct an argument. Provide some evidence that Tobi being Obito did not ruin his character.Quote:
2) No, they're not. I don't know where you got this from. You can start with this one: how did Obito slip through the boulders while using his MS power only to have MS activate for the first time much later on? Good luck with that one.
3) Inconsistent power: shits out shurikens and all other weapons through his S/T, uses Katon, however in all other fights that had significant importance, he didn't.
4) You missed this one.
5&6) His philosophy is not what is suffering; it's his intelligence. Your point is null. Guess what's the synonym for the word "idiot"? Let me just quote you on that one to answer my own question:
So you try to argue against my point, yet you agree with me once again. Do you know what that means?Quote:
Last edited by IChallengeYou!; June 26, 2013 at 03:47 AM.
well at least the arc is now moving forward, woohoo!
Well, I had a long response written out, but I'll just say this:
This Obito inspires no sympathy or any feelings from me. Mostly apathy.
I don't care about him or his feelings for Rin or his ridiculous "philosophy".
I feel like Madara should've died when he undid the Edo Tensei on himself.
I will say I like his craziness. Obito's is just.....eh.
That is all.
Lol, don't whine/moan/cry when Madara butchers *insert favorite character* next week, k?
There's one villain and countless good guys left on the field - I wonder where will all the casualties come from in the foreseeable future?
And it's amazing that people still believe in that mooneye nonsense, Madara is becoming the Jinchuriki and you think it's all for an illusion?
If illusion is all his wanted, he could just let Obito do it.
Why must it be him who gets to become the Jinchuriki? Because his illusion skillz are better? Childish people comes up with really childish theories and then whine on why the story / characters are childish, typical everyday forum.
Last edited by Ryr; June 26, 2013 at 10:18 AM.
War IRL and in-universe is described as hell. This arc has almost spat in the face of anybody that has seriously thought about the nature of war and what that means to humans, much less people who have actually been affected by war. It's like the point of the story turned from "break the cycle of hatred" to "kill the big bad and his evil pet monster". I can't believe I've argued with people on how the latter is vastly inferior story-telling to the former.
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Minato could do it through sealing. I think he also mentioned 'letting' Kushina see Naruto again, which means he was also responsible for that. If Naruto's method is anything like Minato's, there should be little chakra ghosts living inside all the people he touched now, waiting for them to be at their downest points before Naruto pops up in their head to tell them they're totally awesome.
The ... ninja... holy ghost...
Last edited by badluckartist; June 26, 2013 at 01:23 PM.
1) Kishi and staff. They have a layout for this war and they're developing it. The fights are pointless? The fights are meant o prevent/delay the Alliance from getting to Tobi before he starts the Moon Eye Plan. They may not provide what you want out of battles but they do form the background for the war. There are thousands of skirmishes going on they're not all going to be scenarios that advance the plot.Quote:
2) It's not a correction. It was your only valid criticism. I never said this arc was flawless.
3) Well duh. There's going to be fanservice. Kishi decided to involve all the Konoha 11 in this war not just Team 7. So they're going to get airtime, i.e. fanservice. Can't really avoid that. Don't see how logic and consistancy have to do with it, but then you just offer vague statements instead of specifics anyway.
4) Dude, it's a war. What are you seriously expecting. Did people die? Yes, they did. Did people cry? Yes, they did. Were people overjoyed when they defeated a wave of zetsu? Yes, they were. There's not a hell of a lot you can do in a war developmentwise. I'm not the one setting the bar to my personal expectation here. It's a shounen manga, its scope is limited. Read a few more series and you'll understand.
5) The point of the Edo Tensei summons were to give a more dangerous element to the enemy. An only zetsu army is not a threat. Therefore, you bring in the Edo Tensei to give the enemy depth and a much needed power boost. If you gave every Edo Tensei their own 10 chapters mini-arc that would add another 300 chapters to this series. This war has already gone on for 2 years, another 6 years isn't going to happen. So you have a dilemna, have a white zetsu army that won't last 1 day or bring in Edo Tensei with their own storylines and make this war go on for another 3 years and blow the project to pieces.
6) Not only is this your own self-imposed prerequisite but that it meets your own standards as well. This is Kishi's novel and he's not beholden to you.
1&2) Not at all. Children aren't prideful. Children don't look disdainfully down upon other people. Those are adult mannerisms. His actions are arrogant, confident, and cruel. He's not childish at all.Quote:
3) Look again. Madara is the embodient of the Uchiha, powerful, confident, hateful, and cruel. He's the opposite of Naruto. He not a person who was like Naruto who went down a different tragic path like Nagato and Obtio did. He went down the completely opposite path. He is the only person who will NOT be converted by Naruto's Talk no Justu. Sure, Orochimaru was fun and twisted villian but he was always the obstacle for Sasuke to overcome. Madara is something the ninja system has to orvercome.
4) Yeah he could spam meteors for 5 minutes, and in the process kill Obtio. Whoops! Forgot about that part, didn't we. Since Madara wants to become the Jinchuuriki of the Jyuubi. he kinds of needs Obito alive. If obliteration was his goal, he could do it, but subjugation is his goal. What's the purpose of the Moon Eye Plan if everyone is dead?
1) You didn't provide an argument. You said Obito is Obito. What does that have to the war being a disaster?Quote:
2) Obito's power had just awoken and his body was under a lot of stress, not to mention boulders. Kaskashi's MS momentarily awoke then it went dormant again, why can't the same be applied here? You're going in with the assumption that we know all there is to about the MS and kamui, when in fact we don't know everything. Every week people fall into this pitfall and scream bloody murder only to be shown a few weeks later that it's legit. Granted this plot device is a tad cheesy plot to separate Obito from battle, it's no worse than having Obito fall to his death off a cliff just to awake on a foreign riverbank next to a withered Madara.
3) It's called choice. Characters do posess this ability. Does he need katon when a simple slide-and-stab manuever gets the job done. Why didn't he use those on Konan or the ANBU? The reason, he didn't have to. Obito is a minimalist, he's not a mass murderer like Zabuza or Hidan who need ultimate damage in every strike. He does enough to get the job done.
4, 5,&6) I meant to compile them all earlier. No it's his philosoply that is the issue here. Obtio has demonstrated that he can be a good tactician who can easily recoginize events unfolding, so he's not an idiot like you claim. His beliefs are what are warped, and they and independent upon how smart he actually is. I'm glad you know what a thesarus is, now you just need to know what a dictionary is.