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Thread: Ryodan's strength

  1. #16
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Morau is able to beat Uvo, Knov, Knuckle and Shoot too. But Gon and Killua would be beaten easily. Morau is clever and his ability is very adaptable, dont' forget that he can create a powerful smoke warrior if he only use one and he doesn't necessary need to hit him
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    Knov's Hatsu bypasses durability and he can flee easily. Knuckle is WAS FASTER than Uvo and Shoot's Hatsu is very good too. They have the versatility and Uvo has the power.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Even Kuroro acknowledged Uvogin as a dominant fighter who only few could hope to defeat. He's not only strong, but also fast, smart and experienced. One hit is all he needs to kill any of those guys. Shoot and Knuckles ability is quite useless since they won't live that long. Not sure about Morel, Since I didn't focus much on his battles. Knov will just die with a shout.

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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    All of them are able to defeat Uvo, but it's no sure thing. What's sure is that they would need to make very good use of their varied abilities and be very smart, since there's no way they can defeat him through brute strength. Gon and Killua don't stand a chance.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    Even Kuroro acknowledged Uvogin as a dominant fighter who only few could hope to defeat. He's not only strong, but also fast, smart and experienced. One hit is all he needs to kill any of those guys. Shoot and Knuckles ability is quite useless since they won't live that long. Not sure about Morel, Since I didn't focus much on his battles. Knov will just die with a shout.
    If it was as simple as that, Enhancers would be invincible. Uvo is smart, yes but Morau is even smarter, he has smokescreen and doesn't need to be close to his opponent. Do you think they'll just let Uvo punch them? Knov's ability is one of the most broken Hatsu in HXH and for Knuckle and Shoot, they were able to fight against Yupi( who is way stronger , tougher and faster than Uvo) despite that Shoot managed to steal a eye, UVo would have lost body parts more important than that. Knuckle can beat him with hit and run tactics.
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  5. #20
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Leonsagara's Avatar
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Killua would be beaten easily? Even Pufu couldn't catch him, how do you expect Uvogin to manage it? I don't care how durable Uvogin is, you aren't going to stand up to electric shocks just by being tough. Gon's abilities don't grant him as much of an advantage as Killua, but they've both come a long way since they first met the Ryodan. Either of them should stand a good chance in a fight against one of the Ryodan members.

  6. #21
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    The lobster Ant cannot shoot through the frontal armor of a tank even though his aura blasts can completely tear apart a Grunt level Ant's body, yet we see repeatedly that even the body of a grunt level Ant can withstand significant punishment from Aura users. In fact, in the case of Spiders we see that the grunt level Ant can simply shrug off all but their biggest physical attack moves with just their body alone.

    People need to stop thinking HXH is like Dragonball where anybody can take on an army and win. Hisoka says one of his motivation for getting a Hunter's license is so that he can legally kill people. This is nowhere comparable to trying to fight an army, and we see even someone as powerful as Hisoka doesn't like the idea of constantly being hounded by even law enforcement.

    There were no helicopters in the Yorknew arc unless it's something from the Anime. In fact, there are no mention of helicopters in the entire HXH series, probably because helicopters would totally destroy aura users due to their unique combination of hover, firepower, and inaccessability. This isn't Star Wars where people just hurl rocks across the sky to take out aerial stuff. It's quite obvious that the range of aura attacks cannot possibly do meaningful damage to a modern airplane at its operational range. If they can reach that far then you'd just hurl aura blasts like artillery which nobody can do besides Meryem, whose ability is unmatched by anyone in HXH.

    Now it's true that because aura itself is pretty much a top secret subject, most people wouldn't have training against them. But you'd only need a relatively small team of special ops to pull it off. Why do people assume you need super fancy equipment to hurt an aura user? If you can buy a knife that can hurt Silva, clearly one of the strongest characters we know of (Silva praised the knife for its exceptional quality, not Kuroro's ability), how can it be possibly that hard to manufacture some armor-piercing rounds that can penetrate an aura user's defenses? By the way only Ubogin was immune to normal assault rifles out of Spiders. In the same arc every other Spider avoided machine gun fire. It's also stressed that Mafia are just a bunch of guy carrying machine guns with no formal training. Anything that can do damage to a tank is more than enough to hurt an aura user. When Ikalgo hit Killua with his sniper rifle it's something a specialized professional can definitely do with a GPS.

    Let's say the Ant assault team happened to be near Yorknew when the Spiders went on their rampage. The Spiders would pretty much be dead before they know what they hit them. Nobunaga cautioned to wait for everyone to arrive before pursuing the Chain Assassin because he's aided by a 'Pro Hunter', and yet people somehow think they're supposed to fight off the most elite members of the said organization. Really, do you think Netero needs to strap on a nuke if he was given task to eliminate the Spiders? He can probably do this by himself and he certainly wouldn't need to grab a nuke 'just in case'.

    Now if you look at the Ant arc, originally Morel's assessment is that everyone besides himself, Novu, and Netero are pretty much just cannon fodder. This is probably correct as you look at the final outcome, no one besides him did anything meaningful against the Royal Guards. Even with plot immunity none of the guys besides him did anything useful. If not for Komugi, Pitou would've just instantly killed Gon and Killua and there wouldn't even be a chance for Gon to get angry (Pitou was quite confident he can kill Gon in one hit, but can't risk Komugi getting hurt). Yupi certainly had no problem against Shoot and Knuckles. We're also repeatedly given the assessment that everyone minus Morel on the assault team (Netero was never part of the guys fighting Royals) don't even have a chance at defeating a single Royal Guard. In fact, Pufu's assessment of Morel is the perfect irony: "If only you guys had several guys as strong as you, you could've defeated me." The point is that there aren't more guys as strong as Morel in the entire Hunter's organization, unless the Hunter's Association really likes seeing Netero strap on a nuke and blow himself up.

    The Ant arc is supposed to involve people who are far above the strongest guys we know at that point. Gon and Kllua aren't supposed to even be worthy to participate in such a fight, even as the role of fodder. But for whatever reason, they did, and turns out to be relatively successful too. Their role, at best, would be like Ikalgo which would be just recon/fodder, but of course that's not what actually happened. The Election Arc gets a lot of blame here too, as in the Election Arc it's apparently perfectly normal for an organization to hold back its best fighters as long as your leader strapped on a nuke, never mind that if this information gets on your organization would instantly be dissolved (this is a weapon banned at the national level and have no business belonging to an organization like Hunter's Association). Way back in the Yorknew arc, Killua said imagine Machi and Nobunaga are like 2 Hisokas to get an understanding of how tough they are. After this battle, it'd be more like 'Imagine Hisoka is like 1/10th of Pitou". The balance is totally off, which is probably why neither Killua nor Gon fought anyone in a meaningful way.

    ---------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonspeed View Post
    If it was as simple as that, Enhancers would be invincible. Uvo is smart, yes but Morau is even smarter, he has smokescreen and doesn't need to be close to his opponent. Do you think they'll just let Uvo punch them? Knov's ability is one of the most broken Hatsu in HXH and for Knuckle and Shoot, they were able to fight against Yupi( who is way stronger , tougher and faster than Uvo) despite that Shoot managed to steal a eye, UVo would have lost body parts more important than that. Knuckle can beat him with hit and run tactics.
    Even someone who seems to do nothing useful like Shoot managed to took an eye from Yupi. Now Yupi can simply grow more eyes so that didn't affect him any, but any human character would be seriously messed up by that. The Ant assault team was put together with the craziest hax abilities ever, since the alternative would require some kind of massive nuclear strike to take them out. If the team assembled by the leader of the Hunter's needs to even think about whether his guys can take on members of the Spiders, then why does he think he can possibly fight someone who is basically a God (Meryem), or even his subordinates who Netero says are likely stronger than him? Honestly I don't think Gon and Killua even belonged in the said team, but since both played a pivotal role in the actual assault, this pretty much puts them as 'best the Hunter's Association has available', a power level far beyond the average Spider. As a reminder, Nobunaga wanted to gather everyone together before pursuing Kurapika because he has a "Pro Hunter" friend, and no one called him chicken or anything. They clearly agree Kurapika + "Pro Hunter" = serious problem despite having 10 guys.

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  8. #22
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonsagara View Post
    Killua would be beaten easily? Even Pufu couldn't catch him, how do you expect Uvogin to manage it? I don't care how durable Uvogin is, you aren't going to stand up to electric shocks just by being tough. Gon's abilities don't grant him as much of an advantage as Killua, but they've both come a long way since they first met the Ryodan. Either of them should stand a good chance in a fight against one of the Ryodan members.
    Pufu's body was not complete. And Killua was not able to hurt Yupi even with Kanmuru. Every time he used Kanmuru it was not even in a serious fight, he used it to speedblitz Yupi and run away and also to run away of his mansion. In a serious fight he would be obliged to manage his electricity reserves cautiously. Gon and Killua are both way stronger than before but I don't think they are strong enough to beat a Ryodan member. They are still novices, it's as if you were implying that they could beat Knuckle or Shoot.
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonspeed View Post
    Pufu's body was not complete. And Killua was not able to hurt Yupi even with Kanmuru. Every time he used Kanmuru it was not even in a serious fight, he used it to speedblitz Yupi and run away and also to run away of his mansion. In a serious fight he would be obliged to manage his electricity reserves cautiously. Gon and Killua are both way stronger than before but I don't think they are strong enough to beat a Ryodan member. They are still novices, it's as if you were implying that they could beat Knuckle or Shoot.
    When Killua fought Machi in the darkness, Machi covered her head in anticipation of Killua's attack. Although this fight predates the existence of Ken, it is pretty strong evidence that a Spider absolutely cannot just tank any attack from Killua even way back with aura alone. Machi, who has 6th in physical strength, needs to cover her head because she believes a direct hit could kill her.

    With Killua's lightning speed, there would be no chance to even cover your head because by definition it's way too fast for any human to react. Neither Royal Guards can react to this technique despite possessing physical stats that far exceeds human limitations. It only failed on the Royal Guards who are so physically strong that they could tank attacks aimed to kill with their vulnerable body parts easily (Yupi is more than ten times stronger than Killua, according to him, and presumably Pufu is in the same ballpark). Basically the only way to stop this is if you're so strong that you can defend anywhere with just Ken alone, including your head. It's questionable whether any human character have this kind of durability, let alone the Spiders who aren't exceptionally durable in general.

    Now if Killua is trying to not kill someone you can possibly ride it out, though I see no reason why he has to be subjected to such an unrealistic restriction. With the power he has at the Ant arc, a direct head on someone's head unguarded will kill them, and Kanmaru is by definition unguardable and unavoidable.

  10. #24
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonspeed View Post
    If it was as simple as that, Enhancers would be invincible. Uvo is smart, yes but Morau is even smarter, he has smokescreen and doesn't need to be close to his opponent. Do you think they'll just let Uvo punch them? Knov's ability is one of the most broken Hatsu in HXH and for Knuckle and Shoot, they were able to fight against Yupi( who is way stronger , tougher and faster than Uvo) despite that Shoot managed to steal a eye, UVo would have lost body parts more important than that. Knuckle can beat him with hit and run tactics.
    Who's to say that Enhancers aren't ? Isn't that the point of saying they are the most balanced group and that only Conjurers, Manipulators and Specialist can have a chance at them ? There is no one to say that Morel is smarter. His smokescreen would be easily blown by Uvogin's rock storm. Do you think he will let them toy with him? If he managed to punch Kurapika twice, then he should also be able to punch these guys. Knov, Knuckle and Shoot can all be defeated by a shout if things get troublesome for Uvo. They are fighting a guy who can kill by punching, shouting, throwing rocks, biting and probably even more. Anything Uvo does can kill.

    Also, do you think taking an eye or a limb will matter to a guy who didn't care at all when he was poisoned, bitten, stabbed with hair, paralyzed and with Leeches about to hatch in his bladder ?

    ---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 PM ----------

    On second thought, yeah I guess Morel is smarter.
    Last edited by KingOfNight; June 25, 2013 at 03:21 AM.

  11. #25
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    The lobster Ant cannot shoot through the frontal armor of a tank even though his aura blasts can completely tear apart a Grunt level Ant's body, yet we see repeatedly that even the body of a grunt level Ant can withstand significant punishment from Aura users. In fact, in the case of Spiders we see that the grunt level Ant can simply shrug off all but their biggest physical attack moves with just their body alone.
    The Spiders never fought grunt level ants. Grunt level ants are the ones who can't even talk. They were fighting Officers, the ones like Rammot (who can hold his own against Gon and Killua and survive Gon's Rock before learning Nen) so their bodies are pretty durable. Nevertheless, when did they manage to shrug off the Spiders's attacks ? Shizuku was the only one who had trouble dealing with an Officer, and she was the weakest of the group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    People need to stop thinking HXH is like Dragonball where anybody can take on an army and win. Hisoka says one of his motivation for getting a Hunter's license is so that he can legally kill people. This is nowhere comparable to trying to fight an army, and we see even someone as powerful as Hisoka doesn't like the idea of constantly being hounded by even law enforcement.
    If law enforcement can't deal with a regular serial killer (Jones) then they can't do a thing against Hisoka or the Troupe. The Spiders can even commit genocide (the Kurta clan) in the most heinous fashion without any kind of consequences (until Kurapika came along of course). The captain of the ship at the beginning says to Kurapika that even the strongest and most experienced Hunter wouldn't even try to attack the Troupe. Hisoka didn't become a Hunter only to kill legally, it was also to have access to unlimited intelligence and all the other perks. He even said he didn't really care about being a Hunter, so law enforcement wasn't really a big concern for him. Not liking the idea of being hounded by law enforcement doesn't mean being afraid of it, it's just that he doesn't want to waste his time killing policemen or regular Hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Now it's true that because aura itself is pretty much a top secret subject, most people wouldn't have training against them. But you'd only need a relatively small team of special ops to pull it off. Why do people assume you need super fancy equipment to hurt an aura user? If you can buy a knife that can hurt Silva, clearly one of the strongest characters we know of (Silva praised the knife for its exceptional quality, not Kuroro's ability), how can it be possibly that hard to manufacture some armor-piercing rounds that can penetrate an aura user's defenses? By the way only Ubogin was immune to normal assault rifles out of Spiders. In the same arc every other Spider avoided machine gun fire. It's also stressed that Mafia are just a bunch of guy carrying machine guns with no formal training. Anything that can do damage to a tank is more than enough to hurt an aura user. When Ikalgo hit Killua with his sniper rifle it's something a specialized professional can definitely do with a GPS.
    Phinx, Feitan, Franklin and even Sharnalk were seen fighting head on, without taking care of being hit by bullets. We never see Shizuku, Bonolenov, Pakunoda and Korutopi fighting, so who knows if they were hiding or not. The only one we see really hiding was Machi, and it was probably only because she didn't want to dirty her hands (if Franklin, an Emitter, can take bullets, then Machi, a Transmuter, probably can too). If Uvogin can take an anti-tank rocket, how could mere bullets do anything against the Spiders, no matter how reinforced they are ? Even much weaker guys like Dallzolene can take ten bullets. Silva was wounded by Chrollo's knife because it was sharp, but also because Chrollo struck with incredible strength and speed, and also probably used aura (it was not stated, but if you want to cut your opponent with a poisoned knife that can ensure victory, you better be damn sure the knife is as sharp as possible). Of course I'm not saying the Phantom Troupe can win against an army (and they're not stupid enough to try) but said army would need weapons a lot more powerful than guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Let's say the Ant assault team happened to be near Yorknew when the Spiders went on their rampage. The Spiders would pretty much be dead before they know what they hit them. Nobunaga cautioned to wait for everyone to arrive before pursuing the Chain Assassin because he's aided by a 'Pro Hunter', and yet people somehow think they're supposed to fight off the most elite members of the said organization. Really, do you think Netero needs to strap on a nuke if he was given task to eliminate the Spiders? He can probably do this by himself and he certainly wouldn't need to grab a nuke 'just in case'.
    Seriously ? What makes you think the Spiders are so weak ? Of course they wouldn't be dead before even knowing what hit them. Morel, Knov, Knuckle and Shoot are certainly able to fight with the Spiders, but Gon and Killua are not. If Netero is with them, maybe they would win (just maybe) but it would be a tough fight. If Netero is not with them, then the Extermination Team doesn't stand a chance, I mean, how could they win 6 against 11 ? And Netero can't defeat the entire Troupe by himself, no matter how strong he is. This is not Dragon Ball Z when the next strong guys are 100 times stronger than the previous strong guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    The point is that there aren't more guys as strong as Morel in the entire Hunter's organization, unless the Hunter's Association really likes seeing Netero strap on a nuke and blow himself up.
    What about the Zodiacs, who are Netero's sparring partners ? What about Biscuit ? What about the Triple Stars Hunters ? Of course the Hunter organization has people as strong if not stronger than Morel and Knov. Those people didn't get involved for political reasons/because they just didn't care. Do you see people like Ging risk their lives to save humanity ? Even Biscuit, knowing Gon and Killua are going to risk their lives and that her help would be very valuable, was willing to train the boys but not to do anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    The Ant arc is supposed to involve people who are far above the strongest guys we know at that point.
    The only people far above the strongest guys we knew were Meruem and the Royal Guards. The Hunter Extermination Team (Gon and Killua excluded) were at the very top of the food chain, but not stronger than the already established stong people (Hisoka, Razor, the Phantom Troupe).

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    If the team assembled by the leader of the Hunter's needs to even think about whether his guys can take on members of the Spiders, then why does he think he can possibly fight someone who is basically a God (Meryem), or even his subordinates who Netero says are likely stronger than him?
    If you have to deal with a threat, but you don't have anyone competent enough to deal with that threat, what do you do ? You do whatever you can with what you have. Morel, Knov, Knuckle and Shoot were the best guys available.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    As a reminder, Nobunaga wanted to gather everyone together before pursuing Kurapika because he has a "Pro Hunter" friend, and no one called him chicken or anything. They clearly agree Kurapika + "Pro Hunter" = serious problem despite having 10 guys.
    You didn't understand that situation. Nobunaga wasn't afraid of losing against some pro Hunters. He was afraid to chase them because if there was a fight, they wouldn't be able to deal with the Chain Guy + some pro Hunters and prevent the hostages from fleeing (remember, they were only 5 and two of them were hurt). That was the real problem : if they lose the hostages, then Chrollo is as good as dead. And Feitan did call Nobunaga chicken for it.
    Last edited by Django; June 25, 2013 at 01:21 PM.

  12. #26
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member The Invertroid's Avatar
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    I'm not going to try to contribute to the discussion here, because I could never hope to be as knowledgeable about Hunter x Hunter as you guys are. I'd just end up making a fool of myself.

    I just wanted to say that I love how discussing character strengths in HxH requires so much detailed reasoning and use of logical textual evidence. If this was a Dragon Ball Z discussion, it would have descended into, "Well so-and-so has a power level of 10 Octillion, so he'd stand no chance against someone with a power level of 10 Centillion LOLZ" wrangling after the first post.

    As much as I love Dragon Ball, I just really hate its fan obsession with power levels. With HxH we actually have to measure each character's separate attributes and abilities instead of relying on a bullshit linear measurement system. Come to think of it, even the Pokemon game have more depth when it comes to measuring opponents strength against each other than DBZ does.

    Anyway, my rant is over. Sorry for getting off topic.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zelllogan's Avatar
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    A nen user from the zoldyeck family (Kaluto) stated that he was nothing against the others & that he was still lacking. Aside from their obvious strength, their mindset & experience is important. We never saw a genei ryodan member losing his cool in battle. The don't even seem to fear death. Knuckle & shoot are lacking in those areas. For me, all member of genei ryodan are clearly stronger than those two.

    Plus, former number 4 hisoka destroyed so easily an entire subgroup of influential hunters (Teradein Neutral, Bushidora Ambitious, ...). The same hisoka didn't risk himself to attack Kuroro because he was always "guarded" by two genei ryodan member. If two genei ryodan members are enough to make Hisoka cautious, it speaks volume about their strength.

    With the current level of info we have, I would put "average" genei ryodan members at least in the "Morau" area. And I put top members above him.
    And as a group, they still are by far the scariest organization in the manga. They complete each other. In my opinion, the three royal guards are not winning against the genei ryodan. They have a biggest "nen" reserve but the lack of experience would kill them.

    And I really don't think there was anything in the manga proving that the old Netero was stronger than Kuroro or Hisoka. Those two are abnormal & their abilities are off the charts.

    It's easy to underestimate genei ryodan due to Kurapika being able to deal with them. But honestly, kurapika abilities are cheated anyway. Plus, Ubogin didn't fight at his fullest. It was stated that Ubogin was really at his peak only when fighting alongside Nobunaga.
    Last edited by zelllogan; June 25, 2013 at 04:59 PM.

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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    i think, gon and killua at the time of the assault at the palace have grown significantly, that can go go toe to toe with most of the ryodan members... if they were good enough to survive being around royal guards, which pretty much paralysed knovu and palm just by pitou's aura alone, i dont think theyll have much trouble with most of the ryodan's especially the ones they know the abilities of.

    at this point in time, even melereon said. killua had the potential of a division commander already... killua alone, on a stealth attack with kanmuru could probably kill most of the ryodan's with probably the exception of feitan, phinx and the kuroro. the others have shown complete vulnerability to him at the hotel. and he was way way weaker at the time. with very basic knowledge of nen.

    uvogin might be different since all he is good for is head to head combat, so i dont know... it depends on the situation with killua, gon im sure will have a harder time with him. and maybe unless he tranforms to an adult gon. gon is pretty much generally speaking an inferior enhancer compared with uvogin at the time of uvogin's existence. even post Ant arc id say, but uvogin im sure wil have to be serious too.

    to be honest, i am also of the opinion that most people here do not realise how much more deadly killua is now after the ant arc.
    gon on the other hand is probably still agitatingly a slow starter but im sure all together he could give at least half of the ryodans a run for their money on head on combat, post ant arc.

    ---------- Post added at 06:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 AM ----------

    [QUOTE=zelllogan;3462805]A nen user from the zoldyeck family (Kaluto) stated that she was nothing against the others & that he was still lacking. Aside from their obvious strength, their mindset & experience is important. We never saw a genei ryodan member losing his cool in battle. The don't even seem to fear death. Knuckle & shoot are lacking in those areas. For me, all member of genei ryodan are clearly stronger than those two.


    but the ryodans havent met the royal guards, nor meryem. so really u cant make a comparison. knuckle and shoot, obviously have something wrong with their mentalities thats why they had to get through that test with gon and killua but otherwise.



    Plus, former number 4 hisoka destroyed so easily an entire subgroup of influential hunters (Teradein Neutral, Bushidora Ambitious, ...). The same hisoka didn't risk himself to attack Kuroro because he was always "guarded" by two genei ryodan member. If two genei ryodan members are enough to make Hisoka cautious, it speaks volume about their strength.


    i dont think its the other 2 ryodans hisoka is cautious of, its the fact that kuroro may escape. and he knows he wouldnt get any other chance. i think its clear that dealing with another 2 ryodans in any fashion is enough for kuroro to either defeat hisoka or escape.



    With the current level of info we have, I would put "average" genei ryodan members at least in the "Morau" area. And I put top members above him.
    And as a group, they still are by far the scariest organization in the manga. They complete each other. In my opinion, the three royal guards are not winning against the genei ryodan. They have a biggest "nen" reserve but the lack of experience would kill them.


    i have more respect for morau. so i wouldnt say he is past kuroro, but the rest would be either easy or very difficult, but he should be ok. i think kuroro has a big gap in terms of skills and nen abilities compared with the others. feitan seems exceptionally deadly but also frail. phinx seems more balanced but not as deadly.



    And I really don't think there was anything in the manga proving that the old Netero was stronger than Kuroro or Hisoka. Those two are abnormal & their abilities are off the charts.


    i think u are wrong. netero's techinques are far superior in combat than any other fighting techinques with nen that has been shown so far. the sheer speed at which he can conduct nen in his body as what zeno said. is frighteningly quiet. hisoka will be child's play with netero on a open direct combat. even kuroro probably, unless he runs away. no other nen uses aside from meryem that we know the abiities of, can deal with netero's hakyushi kannon? its a techinque that even meryem and pitou gets mesmerised at the speed. you should read the assault again at the palace again. maybe that should give you a clearer perspective.

    thats what i think anyways.

  16. #29
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    People are overestimating Killua too much because of Kanmuru. If he is that powerful it means Killua is the strongest human character in the manga. He just has to use his claws and his electricity, aim to the head and he would kill Netero, Ging, Hisoka etc. I say it again, Killua can't use Kanmuru freely when he is in a serious fight. Even with his fast reactions, there are still many ways to counter him. You can directly use your Ken to protect your body and the more you train the faster you are.Gon was still pretty fast even when Genthru hit him and Nen users more experienced than him are obviously even faster.

    Unless he is REALLY dumb, a Nen user will have always aura covering his vital points. Even Uvo didn't rush on Kurapika with all the power of his Big Bang Impact. I don't know how fast he is but there are still people who can keep up with him, Tsubone for example. Even if Killua is so fast that he'll always be able to hit his opponent and that his opponent doesn't block, it won't be a fatal blow and he won't continue to kill his opponent in two hits because of the Ken and also because he is not stupid enough to waste his electricity. Killua has been able to speedblitz Yupi because Yupi didn't really knew of to use Nen( he didn't know Ken and stuff).

    Do you think he would be able to speedblitz evolved Yupi like that? NO WAY! Pufu was still very even with divisions and the main advantage of Kanmuru is not the speed it's the reaction. He is fast but not the fastest but it's true that actually he has the fastest reactions in the manga.

    Also, rushing against Enhancers or Emitters would be really stupid against a master of Nen. Nen is deep guys(Yupi), you seriously think Togashi would create a broken ability for a Main Character? If it's true his future fights will be pretty boring because he'll speedblitz any opponents. There is a reason why Killua didn't try to attack Illumi during his escape.
    Last edited by Demonspeed; June 25, 2013 at 05:56 PM.
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  17. #30
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    There's a saying in the fictional martial arts world of "Speeds conquers all". If you have even a cursory understanding of the fictional martial arts genre, which HXH borrows heavily from (the concept of aura in both is nearly identical at least so far as direct fighting in concerned) you'll know an ability like Kanmaru is absolutely unbeatable.

    It is NOT sufficient to defend against an attack with only Ken. Ubogin was injuried by a bite on his shoulder by a character nowhere in his class. Although the fight predates the concept of Ken, do you seriously think if that fight was to happen now, you'd instead have Ubogin use Ken and the guy just breaks his teeth? No the point is that there are parts of your body, if unguarded, you'll always take significant damage. Flesh + Ken is not enough to defend against anyone who is remotely within your league.

    Kanmaru cannot be avoided, escaped, or even guarded. The last part is important. For example Machi guarded her head when she realized she can no longer avoid Killua's attack. This tells us that she cannot take a direct hit with just her head, but if it's covered by her hands that's more than enough. At the current state, there is no way anybody from the Spiders can possibly take a hit from Killua unguarded using aura alone. Ubogin cannot do this even against guys nowhere in his league. Kanmaru is so fast that Yupi didn't even have time to yell. Therefore, while something like say cover your head on like a turtle would be able to defend against it, you cannot use this kind of defensive manuever on time. If you started out crawled up in a fetal position, Killua will just hit you with his yoyo until you stop doing that. But the moment you left that position, you can no longer return to it to defend against Kanmaru, because Kanmaru by definition is too fast for you to have any kind of reaction against it.

    In fact, if Killua is feeling particularly nasty, he can use the trademark move of the Hong Kong protagonist of poking out the enemy's eye. Again, you can't guard against any attack done in Kanmaru because he's too fast. Do you really think someone's eyelids + Ko is going to stop Killua from ripping their eyes out? And after he ripped your eyes out the fight is obviously over. In fact with this tactic he can single handedly annihilate the Spiders while fighting 1 on 13. It doesn't matter if you know exactly what he's going to do because nobody can catch up to him, and nobody can possibly block that kind of move with only aura alone. The only reason Killua didn't win against Royal Guards is that they're so strong that they probably can beat Killua's hand strength with just their eyeball, not to mention both Pufu and Yupi can form additional organs seemingly at will.

    This is probably why Killua didn't actually fight anyone seriously after the Ant Arc, because most likely Togashi knows enough to realize how ridiculous his ability is and that there's absolutely any way he would lose to any human opponent.

    ---------- Post added at 08:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------

    One thing to note that is that very few Hunters have abilities exclusively geared to kill. Morel, for example, has pretty much only support abilities. In fact, out of the Hunter characters we have seen so far, outside of Netero, Gon and Killua may have the best abilities designed to damage/kill someone. This is because Hunters, in general, are supposed to be good guys and they're operating from a position of overwhelming strength. The Hunter's Association's supermacy is unchallenged (at least until the Election Arc made the organization look like a joke). No evil faction would dare to attack Hunters head on, so for the most part Hunters have abilities developed to suit whatever interest they have. Biscuit likes to look pretty, so that's how she has her ability. If she lived a life where her survival is constantly threatened, surely she'd have learned something else more suitable for combat.

    The Spiders, with the exception of Hisoka (whose ability is not suitable for fighting but is bailed out by Togashi), tend to have abilities geared solely for fighting, at least the ones that are a credible fighting force. It's pretty clear the having powerful moves is the primary decider in combat. This is why powerful members of Hunter's Association like Morel or Biscuit still tries to avoid confrontation despite their overwhelming strength (Biscuit ran away from Palm), because they know that their inferior moves would put them at a disadvantage if there's a real fight to the death. A high ranking Hunter like Biscuit or Morel obviously can easily have more wealth, prestiege, or anything else they might want compared to anything a Spider can hope for, so why would they risk their life fighting someone with moves designed to kill? Contrast that with Spiders, where every member is considered expendable, including Kuroro. Obviously the Hunters will try to avoid confrontation with guys who have literally nothing to lose. It doesn't mean they'll lose. It's just when you live such a good life like Hunters, it'd be crazy to risk your life for no good reason.

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