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Thread: Ryodan's strength

  1. #61
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Netero didn't know the Royal Guard when he appeared with Morau and Shoot and of course he wouldn't sacrifice an entire country for a fight because he predicted many things, he had already the Rose in his body, he was ready to die, he even predicted that his son would appear. During Killua's explanation he said himself he didn't really believe that human-sized ants were real. He wanted to kill them silently and Morau and Know where the most suited for that. When he learned the King was born he tried to have a perfect fight with him, he called Zeno but none of the Zodiacs because they are too strong and loyal( Zeno is strong too but he is an assassin and you know how they act.) Zodiacs are able to spar with Netero, 2 of them are surely able to kill one RG, if all the Zodiacs were present they would have rapidly destroyed the RG and Netero's fight would have been interrupted, Morau and Knuckle's abilities were also very useful

    Kanzai himself wondered why Netero didn't call them, and he said Morau and Know were "weak''. It's because Netero planned to die in a last fight against Meruem.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonspeed View Post
    Kanzai himself wondered why Netero didn't call them, and he said Morau and Know were "weak''. It's because Netero planned to die in a last fight against Meruem.
    I'm not doubting it, but I would like to know in which chapter That was said

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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    I am sure there will be a spider hunting Arc coming.

    Gon/Killua wants to go to dark continent but Ging says they must defeat the spiders to qualify to go.

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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    If any of the Royal Guards were by Meryem's side Netero would have no chance to get Meryem out of the palace, which means the Rose will blow everyone up and kill the entire country's population that were all outside.

    There is no way Netero could've known 2 out of the 3 Royal Guards would be effectively neutralized due to Komugi (Pitou needs to stay behind to protect her, Pufu didn't arrive on time because he was jealous). The notion that he'd go into a fight risking 5 million civilians on complete unknowns if he had any more powerful people to bring is ridiculous. It'd mean he's at least as homicidal as your average dictator if he simply was willing to let 5 million people die just so that he can get a 1on1 (which he was pretty sure he'd lose, which is why he had the Rose in the first place) without any reason to believe he had a way to separate Meryem.

    Seriously, just tell me how on earth did Netero plan on breaking a defense setup by the 3 Royal Guards like Killua envisioned (3 of them form a circle with Meryem in the middle). By the way, he doesn't know he'd get someone with an absolutely crazy hax ability like Meleoron. Also, he didn't know it was even possible for Novu to get that close to the throne room (Komugi's presence is completely unknown to the Hunters). In the scenario the Hunters envisioned, the rest of the team would be assaulting from a distance as far away as 2km (this is how far you'd be to avoid Pitou's En), and he was supposed to jump down in midair without any communication to the rest of his team who may be intercepted/killed as they run in, and then somehow get Meryem, who is way stronger than him, somehow completely alone. If he had been communicating with his team, he'd also know that Novu wimped out and cannot be counted on anymore, so now instead of just teleporting Meryem away he'd have to somehow get Meryem to a distance so far away that a Rose blast wouldn't kill anyone. What kind of moronic plan is this? The only possible explanation is that Netero cannot possibly form a stronger team in any meaningful capacity which is why he basically has to entrust a bunch of rookies to keep Royal Guards occupied.

  6. #65
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    The only possible explanation is that Netero cannot possibly form a stronger team in any meaningful capacity which is why he basically has to entrust a bunch of rookies to keep Royal Guards occupied.
    Netero had the Zodiacs. Most of them were willing to change their physical appearence just to please him. A single phone call from Netero, and at least 10 of them would have been there. And you just can't say they would have been meaningless in the conflict. They are Netero's sparring partners, and Netero would never spar with anyone but the very best fighters around. They are also the Hunters Netero would entrust the Association to if there was a crisis. The average member of the Zodiacs is probably as strong as Morel and Knov at the very least. Yet Netero didn't call them, which means he was willing to risk the lives of five million people to get his "ultimate" fight. Yes, that makes him "as homicidal as your average dictator". We know Hunters are particularly selfish people, and Netero is stated to be "a twisted individual" by Biscuit, who is not exactly sane either. And yes, he was willing to let the Association deal with all the political turmoil that would ensue. Netero is not supposed to be a good guy.
    Last edited by Django; July 02, 2013 at 07:01 AM.

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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    I'm not doubting it, but I would like to know in which chapter That was said
    Chapter 319 I think.



    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    If any of the Royal Guards were by Meryem's side Netero would have no chance to get Meryem out of the palace, which means the Rose will blow everyone up and kill the entire country's population that were all outside.

    There is no way Netero could've known 2 out of the 3 Royal Guards would be effectively neutralized due to Komugi (Pitou needs to stay behind to protect her, Pufu didn't arrive on time because he was jealous). The notion that he'd go into a fight risking 5 million civilians on complete unknowns if he had any more powerful people to bring is ridiculous. It'd mean he's at least as homicidal as your average dictator if he simply was willing to let 5 million people die just so that he can get a 1on1 (which he was pretty sure he'd lose, which is why he had the Rose in the first place) without any reason to believe he had a way to separate Meryem.

    Seriously, just tell me how on earth did Netero plan on breaking a defense setup by the 3 Royal Guards like Killua envisioned (3 of them form a circle with Meryem in the middle). By the way, he doesn't know he'd get someone with an absolutely crazy hax ability like Meleoron. Also, he didn't know it was even possible for Novu to get that close to the throne room (Komugi's presence is completely unknown to the Hunters). In the scenario the Hunters envisioned, the rest of the team would be assaulting from a distance as far away as 2km (this is how far you'd be to avoid Pitou's En), and he was supposed to jump down in midair without any communication to the rest of his team who may be intercepted/killed as they run in, and then somehow get Meryem, who is way stronger than him, somehow completely alone. If he had been communicating with his team, he'd also know that Novu wimped out and cannot be counted on anymore, so now instead of just teleporting Meryem away he'd have to somehow get Meryem to a distance so far away that a Rose blast wouldn't kill anyone. What kind of moronic plan is this? The only possible explanation is that Netero cannot possibly form a stronger team in any meaningful capacity which is why he basically has to entrust a bunch of rookies to keep Royal Guards occupied.
    He knew about Knov's ability, they were communicating via cellphones and Meleoron and Ikalgo were included in their plan. They guessed that Meruem had the personality of a "proud statesman", a guy like that would easily accept a fight alone and the RG would obey him. When Netero appeared, it's Meruem himself who suggested to fight in another place. Netero simply entrusted his teammates( he even let Gon, who is way weaker than Pitou go to fight Pitou), Pufu should have been neutralized by Morau's smoke but he trapped Morau, Yupi was fighting K&S, only Morau failed but it's not very important because Pufu did nothing and before entrusting them, they have been tested, I don't think he would have cared much if they died and they chose to come themselves, they are Hunters. If Komugi hadn't been hurt Netero would have just defied Meruem in a fight( he would have excepted because of his personality) and he had already hit Pitou with Hyakushiki Kannon, the fight would have already started before her arrival.

    But we can say they have been lucky because without Komugi, who permitted Meruem' s character to develop, Netero would have been killed instantly in a fair fight, and Zeno would have not been able to flee, or maybe he could via Knov's portals.

    Netero chose Morau and Knov because:
    -Their abilities were perfect for that mission and their strength is not comparable to him so they wouldn't disturb him in a fight.
    -Zodiacs are too strong. Don't say me any RG would be able to fight against 2 or 3 of them.

    When you think about it, even if all of them had died, Netero never thought Meruem would succeed in his conquest of humanity, his last words are the proof of this.
    Last edited by Demonspeed; July 02, 2013 at 10:54 AM.
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  8. #67
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonspeed View Post
    Chapter 319 I think.
    The translation I read said "Why did the chairman call for us?"- Botobai

    "I agree, are Morel and Knov too important for this ?"- Kanzai

    A mistranslation on Mangareader, maybe ?

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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    The translation I read said "Why did the chairman call for us?"- Botobai

    "I agree, are Morel and Knov too important for this ?"- Kanzai

    A mistranslation on Mangareader, maybe ?
    Kanzai is basically illiterate. He doesn't know the difference between 'too important' and 'not important', which is why Chidol corrected him shortly after.

  10. #69
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Kanzai is basically illiterate. He doesn't know the difference between 'too important' and 'not important', which is why Chidol corrected him shortly after.
    Her correction still seems off...

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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Django View Post
    We know Hunters are particularly selfish people, and Netero is stated to be "a twisted individual" by Biscuit, who is not exactly sane either. And yes, he was willing to let the Association deal with all the political turmoil that would ensue. Netero is not supposed to be a good guy.
    I can buy that, though I always thought the leader of the Hunter's Association is someone who is supposed to be able to see the big picture. As is portrayed in the manga, Netero's plan is just reckless to the point of foolishness. Forget the civilians for a second. If any of the Royal Guards manages to break through, Netero can forget about his 1on1 with Meryem. It's possible that Netero may have grossly underestimated the ability of the Royal Guards. I'm sure he wasn't expecting one of his hand picked guys (Knov) to wimp out for just seeing the aura around the Royal Guards. Seems awfully reckless to underestimate your enemy when you've to strap on a nuke, but I admit the Hunters indeed are some of the craziest persons we've seen.

    By the way people really misinterpret Meryem's personality. He's not one of those super honorable villian guy that just agrees to dismiss all his henchman and fight a 1on1 in some random totally safe area without a reason. There are several reasons why he agreed to Netero's terms:

    1. Komugi was hurt. He obviously don't want to fight near her because the collatoral damage can easily kill her. As powerful as he is, there's no way he can be sure he'll be able to protect Komugi while fighting Netero at the same time. We can see Pitou can't do this against Gon even though Pitou is sure he can kill Gon in one hit!
    2. Meryem needed someone important to deliver his ultamatium to humans and Netero is clearly a good candidate.
    3. Meryem really don't want to be bothered by Pufu.

    The last point is very important. Meryem is not going to go against the wishes of his subordinates if their decision makes sense. For example, Meryem finds Pitou's En to be intrusive, but instead of saying "I'm so uber I've no need for defenses", he still agrees to let Pitou keep his En up because he knows this is the right thing to do. Likewise, Pufu's idea of exterminating all humans isn't wrong from his species point of view. Even though Meryem may have grown fond of certain human beings, we know he still at best sees humanity about as worthy as human sees cows. His conditions to Netero would basically put humans in farms where they're slaughtered in controlled amounts. Now that's a step up from extinction but it's still not exactly amenable terms. So if Pufu is near and says 'no negotiation kill all humans!', which he is certain to do, there's no way Meryem will overrule that because he knows Pufu is right.

    The assault plan was really horribly conceived. 99 out of 100 times it'd have simply ended with the entire nation's population blown up. You can argue that the Hunters totally underestimated their enemy, which is true at some level, but how do you underestimate your enemy but bring a Rose just in case? Those two actions are basically mutually conflicting. Keep in mind that Meryem still refused to fight Netero 1on1 until Netero offered to tell him his name, and it's quite clear Meryem could just take a nap while letting Netero do whatever he wants and he still won't be anywhere close to dying. I doubt that was Netero's plan all along.

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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    ryoudan's strenght? they are pretty weak compared to top hunters... pretty strong compared to ordinary people...

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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by kenosecon View Post
    ryoudan's strenght? they are pretty weak compared to top hunters... pretty strong compared to ordinary people...
    There's nothing in the manga proving the Spiders are "pretty weak compared to top Hunters". Actually, all the information we have prove the contrary. At the very beginning of the manga, it is said by the ship captain that not even the most experienced Hunters would try to touch them. Silva Zoldyck is obviously in the "top Hunter" category (we don't know if he has a license or not, but it doesn't matter) and he said killing a member of the Ryodan was a hard job. Actually, the mere fact they are still at large proves how strong they are : after all the crimes they have commited during ten years (including a genocide) , they are obviously in the radar of every single Blacklist Hunter. Unless you want me to buy that there are no Blacklist Hunters in the "top Hunters" category, then it proves that even top Hunters can't do a thing against them.
    Last edited by Django; July 07, 2013 at 09:58 AM.

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    Re: Ryodan's strength

    The Ryodan's strength is an interesting topic, and I believe that they are very strong.
    Kururo was able to survive his fight against Zeno and Silva, and he wasn't even using his full strength, and while they themselves were holding back, being able to survive for so long is a feat in itself.
    Nobunaga is a skilled swordsman, and Machi has shown her strength with the threads against the Mafia, not to mention her speed when capturing Gon, while Franklin is both wise and powerful with his nen bullets and large build.
    Phinks is very strong, as shown with the arm wrestling matches and his sheer power to literally turn heads and kill in little time. Even one of his most powerful moves was miscalculated, meaning that he's more than capable of killing with greater ease and using less strength than shown.
    Feitan, shown to be a top assassin, is quick on his feet, and strong enough to quickly slice people's heads off without a sweat. His special abilities are also extremely powerful and dangerous, as stated by Phinks, who isn't one to compliment anyone.
    Uvogin was able to take out an entire squad of Mafia men, take down four of the Shadow beasts, and his fight with Kurapika was a long one, not to mention his bang impact barely taking any of his strength, since he didn't even break a sweat doing so.
    Pakunoda's skills, while not regularly for fighting, are very useful, and she knows to to use them properly, and she did hold her own against the Mafia quite well, and Shizuku was able to easily kill many powerful nen users with Blinky with little problem, and Blinky's ability matched with her intelligence were brilliant against the chimera ant.
    Shalnark is the only Hunter out of the entire Troupe (excluding Hisoka), proving that he is strong and durable, as it's rare for a hunter to use nen in the exam itself, and his skills, while usually not for fighting, were used well when against the Mafia, while his special ability, with its risks, is sheer power, and should take years to master without killing oneself.
    Kalluto is a Zoldyck child, and has shown his skills in torture, so while he isn't as strong as the other members, he's still a force to reckon with. Kortopi has no know fighting skills, but his ability is very useful, and Bonolelov has shown to be a skilled Dancer fighter with his capabilities.

    Now, the Troupe does know who's strong and who isn't when it comes to certain enemies, as shown various times. (Machi telling Shalnark to watch the others fight, Kururo telling Nobunaga to protect Shal, Paku and Shiz with his life, etc.) They do have their weaknesses, but I think that they're more than capable of taking care of the ants. They took them on one by one, without any previously known knowledge of who they were dealing with. Besides, they only used their abilities for practice against the ants because, as Phinks said, it was a race. If they had been serious, they would have dealt with them differently.

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