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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)
And as for as Byakuya not growing? Do try to remember that during the course of the manga, he not only showed a multi-level bankai, but he improved on it by adding the gokei release, as well as that clever (albeit reckless) 'hidden flower' move he created on the fly to defeat Tsukishima. Byakuya has plenty of potential. He is a young captain whom you misread as 'at his limit' merely because his bankai is well developed. But that is not the case as he has improved in the ways mentioned as well as his swordsmanship, as noted by Tsukishima during their battle.
All four of the ones coming back from the RR are going to do so wielding significantly increased power...which is why we are waiting for their grand entrance. Kubo wouldn't be holding off on it the way he is unless it was going to be something special.
And so what about Byakuya using bankai more than others. It was his choice to do so. It isn't necessarily that he had to. He just chose to. And now that he doesn't have bankai, he will do whatever he needs to to be powerful enough to fight the enemy. That, too, is one of his trademarks. I don't give a rat's ass if he's better than Kenny. He's coming back extremely powerful and that's why the wait to see him join the fight. As much as you don't' like it, that's how it's going. If Byakuya was as mediocre as you think, he wouldn't be in the RR getting powered up, but down in the Seireitei getting his bankai-less butt kicked like your pal Hitsugaya is about to!
Well, if you tried to make a joke about me being a Hitsugaya's fan - you are wrong, since I'm not the one. Though I do believe that Bankai against Bankai Hitsugaya will win over Byakuya.
About Byakuya getting a significant power-up from Hikifune's food... Again, you are completly ignoring what I tried to say before. Byakuya lost his Bankai and without Bankai he is at best at half of his power, but if we look seriously, then it's even worth for him, so I seriously can't see how Hikifune's food can be comparable to a boost that Bankai gives.
About Byakuya beeing strong physically... I would say it's a bad joke. He isn't even close to a middle department in terms of physical capabilities according to the manga.
P.S. I understand you are Byakuya fan, but try to be more or less objective. He never dealt any significant damage to any more or less relevant opponent in Shikai, so it's not his choise to always use Bankai, but his need, because otherwise he would loose.
Last edited by Jorge D. Dragon; September 25, 2013 at 06:31 AM.
Uhmm... No. She let it go quite a while back. That did not hold her back at all. Where are you making this up from?Quote:
When was it ever said or even in the slightest implied that Byakuyas Bankai was broken? His petals scattered because he did not have enough Reiatsu to fight, as he said earlier to Ichigo.Quote:
A power up sure but nothing that is going to be significant. Unless Rukia unlocks Bankai ofcourse.Quote:
Renji was in there naked, which was also said to be highly dangerous to bodies that are not strong enough. Does that mean Renji is very powerful?
Please stop. Those are techniques/reshaping. Not levels.Quote:
How had he improved on his swordsmanship when he was fighting an opponent who should not at all be regarded as strong?Quote:
If you think him blowing a hole in Tsuki as swordsplay... then wow.
Where does it say that they get anything significant? What everyone is trying to tell you is that, these guys had hundreds of years to improve, a simple day or two is not going to produce any real significant results.Quote:
Look at the current Bankai-less captains, they trained in other techniques yet they have managed to do nothing of any significance.
No no no no nooo. He had to. Not chose to, he had to. Every fight he has been in, he resorted to using Bankai because his Shikai was not cutting it.Quote:
His trademark? After doing it... wait, can you please tell us these instances where he did whatever it took to be powerful enough to fight the enemy? If you are referring to going Bankai then... Lol.Quote:
Extremely powerful? Such a nice baseless assumption.Quote:
So Renji is very strong and Rukia too? Im pretty sure it was explained rather clearly why those 3 were in Royal Realm to begin with.Quote:
What, dont tell me you ignored it because you needed a reason to believe Byakuya was somehow special... Nooooo... you wouldnt...
Last edited by jaymizzo; September 25, 2013 at 07:08 AM.
And as to Byakuya being useless without bankai, please remember, he is a flash step master who only is shown being outpaced by Yoruichi and bankai Ichigo and a kido master. I never said that he was so strong physically. He is of average physical strength, but he is durable of body and can fight, even after significant damage, as he has repeatedly proven. With Renji, he used bankai to teach him a lesson. With Zommari, the manga specifically pointed to his rage over the Espada using Rukia as a pawn as his reason for not using shikai at all, but bringing out bankai and trashing him. No one, short of Kenpachi was going to beat Yammy without a bankai, so anyone would have used bankai against the zero Espada. And yes, he fought Ichigo in bankai, but who would have been able to do so without? Ichigo beat Kenny's brute strength, so don't go there. And finally, Tsukishima...Tsukishima inserted himself into Byakuya's past and knew how to counter his every move. Of course, at that point, he went bankai...anyone else would have done so too. So, where does any of that show he's weaker because he uses bankai? He uses bankai either because he's pissed, trying to make a point, or in a situation where any of his colleagues would also use bankai (except for Kenpachi, who I have already said is probably stronger right now, pre-RR makeover. So, where exactly did he use a bankai where other captains wouldn't have needed to?
And yes, I am a Byakuya fan, but I have said that Shunsui is more powerful and Kenpachi is probably going to be depending on what power Byakuya gains in the RR. As to the other captains (Again, I am not speaking of the maybe dead Unohana, whom, even if she comes back, won't be the same, Aizen, Urahara or Yoruichi), there is no proof you can show that puts him beneath the vizards, the constantly ill Ukitake, Kurotsuchi, Komamura, Soi Fon or Hitsugaya. There's just nothing that's been shown that proves it, so you can't support the argument.
But argument with you is pointless because you ignore what is being said by such decisions Kubo makes as when to bring Byakuya back into the fighting. Who's fighting now? Less powerful captains Hitsugaya and Soi Fon, and their VCs. The major battles are being set in place, but the ones for those in the RR will come later and be more exciting and pivotal than these early ones. Face it, Kubo would not build two story arcs around Byakuya and constantly point out his ability if he was not among the more powerful captains. He would not be saving Byakuya's battle for later if it wasn't going to be exciting. Byakuya's battles are made front and center for a reason. He always gets powerful opponents, like Ichigo and Yammy, or ones with creepy abilities like Zommari, Tsukishima and As Nodt. And when he lost to As Nodt, there is a reason why it was shocking for readers...because it was unexpected. You are welcome to disagree, but I don't have to argue the point. When Byakuya returns, he will squash your baseless argument under his heel.
---------- Post added at 07:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 AM ----------
Last edited by Firebird0ne; September 25, 2013 at 08:57 AM.
Well, if not for Wondie Hitsugaya's "joke Bankai" would have taken down Harribel who is Tercera Espada. And it was before timeskip. After it it was mentioned that Hitsugaya considerably improved his Bankai by fully mastering it. At the same time Byakuya never managed to take down any opponent who is even comparable to Harribel in terms of strength even with his Bankai, so why do you claim Byakuya as such an almighty individual, while calling Hitsu's Bankai as a joke?Quote:
Also about Aes Nodt... I never said he wasn't strong. At the same time I would say he was weaker than Kirge. The only thinh he had that made him strong was his broken Fear ability. At the same time Byakuya didn't use neither his mastery in Shunpo nor in Kido against this guy and that might have helped him.
Byakuya isn't as good in Shunpo as you want him to be. Even base Ichigo managed to keep with him when he barely reached Captain class after getting Bankai Byakuya is outclassed not only by Yoruichi and Ichigo, but also by Soi Fong, Kirinji, the head of Royal Guard (since he managed to keep with Kirinji more or less), Aizen (he outclasses most of Shinigami in the most of departments), Isshin (he was quite easily able to keep with Aizen's speed).Quote:
And about his Kido... It's not a mastery. If you want to see Masters in Kidou, then they are Tessai, Hachi, Aizen and Urahara. Byakuya is just average in this department.
Well, it's quite logical that Vaizards are stronger since they never even went all-out and never used their Bankai. At the same time all of them managed to quite comfortably tie in their fights in the War even though they were not shown using even Shikai, while Byakuya stated that he needed Bankai in order to win against his opponent who wasn't even using Vollstaendig. And you should remember that neither of Vaizards were shown fighting in Bankai seriously as well as Ukitake. And well you might don't like Ukitake, but manga actually states that he and Shunsui were the ones who were the strongest ones who graduated from Academy. Of course we don't consider Aizen here since he fooled Yama with illusions as well as Isshin since he was in Human World for a long time so he might have progressed, but still he might not have surpassed neither Ukitake nor Shunsui.Quote:
About Komamura, Mayuri and Soi Fong... Well, I don't even get why you bring them, since I never even brought them up.
You actually took my words) I wanted to say the same.)Quote:
I guess tour friend is missing the fact that the healing spring is dangerous only for those who are healed.... There is no purpose in a spring that can damage people who are already close to death.Quote:
Also who ever use hikifune food and a powerup in the same sentence. Her food just gives a powerup for a while. so that the ones who it it could actualy train harder and really become more powerful its not a long term powerup otherwise Hikifune wouldnt get slim every time she makes food for others and she also would already at Hougyoku aizen level since she's been eating this food for decades at least
You just stick to that, then.
---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 PM ----------
There you go. There is nothing said at all about the powerup being temporary. It says that they are brimming with reiatsu on an unfathomable level and will make that power over into their own. Sounds like a serious and permanent powerup to me. And as to her making the food and getting thin, she doesn't get thin because the power doesn't last. She gets thin using the power to infuse her food.
---------- Post added at 01:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 PM ----------
You are quite desperate for Byakuya to be mediocre, but you are fighting a mountain of evidence that says different...Two arcs as Ichigo's main nemesis, way above average skills scores in the databook and numerous references to his strength, speed and use of kido in the manga. I think you're reading a different manga than everyone else. Byakuya is not an average captain, in any sense of the word. He is well above average.
Last edited by Firebird0ne; September 25, 2013 at 02:53 PM.
2. Soifon is comparable to Yoruichi, they fought together, Soifon actually managed to land several hits on her, Byakuya couldn't keep up with Yoruichi holding Ichigo. Also the Bankai Hichigo who dominated Byakuya or just Bankai for that matter, was in turn held off by all the Visored for ten minutes.
3. Databooks stats are relative to the individual.
He relies consistently on using his full power. Compare him to other Captains. Yama, Kisuke, Aizen, Shunsui, Isshin, Yoruichi, Retsu, Kenpachi, Shinji, Rose, Love and Kensei. All of these Captains have demonstrated the ability to fight high level opponents without using their full power, opponents stronger than Byakuya has faced at full power. Byakuya needs to use his Bankai to defeat weaker opponents like Zommari and Tsukishima.
I think it's pretty self explanatory that Byakuya, at the moment, is one of the weaker Captains based on what we have seen.
Do you know any other tunes? You consistently ignore the facts of the manga and downplay the FACTS presented in the databook. Until you accept what is there in black and white, you will never be convincing. You are still trying to argue that Kubo built the first two arcs based on Ichigo's battle with a mediocre captain? Do you even realize that the Ichigo/Byakuya battle is still the best on record? There's a reason why. Get a clue and stop trying to spread Bya-hate.
Also if you are using the databooks to suggest that Byakuya's stats make him a stronger Captain despite stats being relative, then, again, you are mistaken. Kenpachi has the lowest stats of all Captains yet he is one of the stronger Captains.
So again, the databooks are a moot point. Again if you can disprove any of these statements, go ahead.
Last edited by vanyar; September 25, 2013 at 07:30 PM.
I think Byakuya's likely going to come back stronger than before, and I think it's going to be a stronger upgrade than Hitsu and Soi Fong's. He might even get a new bankai forged for him. If so I think it'd be cool if he'd manage to take back his bankai and combine it with the newly forged one.
I do think that Byakuya might be senior level captain in power after his royal guard training, since he was already high-tier before his near death experience.
He will most likely save the day for some shinigamis and kill AS NODT as a revenge with his new found power and confidence.