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Byakuya coming into a fight knowing zziltch about an enemy who has probably read something if i'm not mistaken(memory's tad rusty ) he sees the shikai of byakuya a feared captain(pun intended) and is intrigued by what he is witnessing, since he has only read about what the captains powers were he raises his hand in complete to bare witness to Senbonzakura (千本桜, "Thousand Cherry Blossoms") no doubt having some similarities to
Anywhooo let's go back to the manga of which we read, shall we. As Nodt read in a book none the less Senbonzakura then saw it being used in a threating manner reacts to not become hurt using his blunt takes an intriguing look at his arm not being hurt, mean while renji and byakuya are having a conversation about why the attacks wont work Byakuya then ourtightly states impossibruuuuu
Next page we see and read renji's face why because there are no words, that's what writers do they will use the opportunity to draw someone like us in. We move our eyes over toward As Nodt who then becomes hurt all the while we as readers have seen that it was not hurting him.
After this has happened we then go on to see Byakuya bring his Zan to a seal then swiftly moves on to bankai to finish the fight. If it wasn't for said banka being straight up hijacked from him it would of ended there and then
As Nodt then proceeds to tell him what his ability was which is 'fear', byakuya not only having problems with what the ability is currently doing to him but is fighting it
As nodt instead of using his own ability then proceeds on to finish the job only after he has wounded byakyua who fought as best he could with essentially a blunt blade, judging by how blut works.
In a manga we read and look at pictures we don't use logic we simply go by what we see and read, it is still and always will be the Mangaka's story so pushing a different interpretation is just plain disrespectful to the writer who you are choosing to read and look at his interpretation of the story through his art and talents which is creating narrative through a comic genre which a manga essentially is.
Not only does it debunk your claim it gives you a little lesson on how people should be reading a creation that Mangaka is providing. The problem i'm seeing is people are putting to much interpretation and not enough reading.
Last edited by devstauk; December 24, 2013 at 05:29 AM.
@Firebird0ne: Whatever helps you sleep at night dude. Anybody without bias reading those scenes would realize it was the author's clear intention to kill off Byakuya. It wasn't just that As Nodt turned him into a blood splatter on a wall. Or that his zanpakutou completely disintegrated. It was his characterization. He left his future and loved ones to ICHIGO. Knowing full well he was done.
...But then Kubo gets a massive backlash on twitter from Japanese Byakuya fans, sounding remarkably similar to yourself, spewing nonsense about how he didn't deserve such an end cause he was important blah blah. And few chaps later we find out he's miraculously alive. Right.
I'm not crying over spilt milk here but the facts are clear for all to see. And I for one liked that humiliating end for him because for the first time he gave up his pride and honor, by entrusting everything to Ichigo. It really was a deep scene but as usual, Kubo's character development (it does happen from time to time lol) completely flew over people's heads.
No one's questioning how the cuts actually took place. What we're questioning is how you get the idea that he could've made his Blut stronger, or even that it wasn't Blut, when you see the god damn vains filled with reishi under his skin.Originally Posted by Duniak
...outside of using Blut. Which is intended to do just that.Quote:
The most frightening thing about that? Look at the scan I posted where Quilge admits that Vene and Ateriae are both needed to compete with bankai. This is an ability meant to make a Quincy strong enough to compete with a BANKAI (vene to defend against the power... ateriae to deal damage against the powered-up foe). And yet it was cut... by a SHIKAI.
Byakuya just cut through a defense intended to be used against a bankai wielding opponent without using his bankai to do it.
Now, what does this imply about the power of Senbonzakura?
He didn't let himself be cut. If he were "testing the waters" as your trying to imply, then he expected to be cut and wouldn't have been surprised by Byakuya's power for the simple fact that he's been fighting Renji, who he knew was a lieutenant, and by that logic automatically knew that Byakuya's attacks will be more powerful.Quote:
Nodt didn't allow shit to happen.
Can you prove that that's even such a thing? That As Nodt (or any Quincy at all) can reinforce their skin WITHOUT Blut? Where'd you even get this idea? Because shinigami can do it?Quote:
Actually everything that was said is attack without Arteriae is useless against Ichigo's bankai, and he needs to use Blut Vene all the time. Blut is an INHERITANT ability to ALL Quincies, so it's purpose was NEVER competing with Bankai. Just as Shinigamis unconciously reinforce their bodies, Hollows put reiatsu into their Hierro, Quincies put reishi in their blood. You know what is meant to compete against Bankai? Vollstandig, which is basically a Bankai for Quincies. Blut being a mean to compete with Bankai is baseless and it's just your imagination.Quote:
Blut is NOT intended to be used against a Bankai. Everyone in SR army used Blut to defend against ANY attack. Where the hell did you get the idea, that Blut is meant only for Bankai? Kirge didn't really have problems with using it against Ichigo, just like As Nodt against Renji, or Ichigo against Juha.Quote:
Let me think... nothing. Only it can cut an opponent, who purposefully lifted his arm to it's blades to see what it is.Quote:
So he didn't "test the waters", because he was cut? What kind of nonsense is it? He wanted to check what it is and was surprised it can cut him, that's exactly what I said. Seriously, don't butt in discussions if you don't know what they're all about. If he didn't want to check it, why did he lift his arm and is clearly shown to LOOK at his hand, that he put where Byakuya's blades are?Quote:
Seriously... what the hell? Reading is too big of a hurdle for you? Okay, let's explain it like to a 5 year old.Quote:
We use 'or', so we have to take 2 cases into account.
Case 1: Skin reinforced with Blut.
Case 2: Skin NOT reinforced with Blut.
Now we build a sentence, where we put [...]case 1 'or' case 2[...]. So I used "cut through Blut" as the first part, and "not reinforced skin", that meant "not reinforced with Blut", but I didn't want to use the same word twice in one sentence. You follow? I can go slower. So my sentence meant "We don't know if Blut was used at all". You saw that little "NOT" before reinforced I hope. Why do I always have such problems with Americans?
Last edited by Duniak; December 24, 2013 at 10:29 AM.
Infact the only instances we have ever seen blut proves the fact that its not a ability that can be turned off or on the reistu in the veins are activated on impact, nothing in the manga suggests otherwise.
Your argument is one that states As Nodt can turn it on and off at will, again not a proven fact.
You then call upon bullshit when that post i did was explaining exactly how I have read the manga and which is shown in the manga, the only one coming to assumptions is you, and your pitiful at putting your point across without 1 making yourself look pretty upset you've been proven wrong, and 2 providing me with clear cut evidence showing that you point is fact.
My post clearly shows what the mangaka is trying to show the readers, your point is an assumption based on little proof. Instead of reading into two panels and coming to a full blown instant conclusion that As Nodt must be able to turn his blut on and off at will, look at what is being portrayed by the mangaka himself. This is why i say what im saying is fact because its written and drawn in the manga.
And it's clearly you that has a problem atm because in both your posts you become very defensive and bring nationality into your argument.
And why i need to point out the fact that the two panels of As Nodt surrounded by Senbonzakura one is clearly meant to stop him while Renji and Byakuya engage in conversation about the tactics that are going to pursue and the other is Byakyua using said ability in full force.
Last edited by devstauk; December 24, 2013 at 11:45 AM.
You were arguing that As Nodt was using a lower level of Blut Vene to test Byakuya.I don't see how Blut is not relavent.
Yeah,Against a Bankai boosted opponent is what he means.The scanlation which ninjabot provided earlier about Kirge explaining how he can't really damage Ichigo without Arterie and that he can't just switch quickly between Arterie and Vene says something :rolleyes And Renji didn't have the power to cut through As Nodt who was in Vene mode.Yes he didn't problem with that but wtf is the point here? You're just throwing in something else.Originally Posted by Dunaik
Again As Nodt was shocked and his shocking face was drawn in two pannels.It shows that As Nodt who was confident that Byakuya couldn't possibly cut through his Blut Vene with just his Shikai,Was surprised when Byakuya did manage to do so.If Byakuya goes Bankai and uses Senkei,You know what he can do.Well you might ignore it again.Originally Posted by Dunaik
You will not be that surprised if you're testing someone moreso if it's a Captain level opponent.You know the difference between a Captain and a VC.As Nodt should've expected the cut and shouldn't have been soo surprised.Originally Posted by Duk
Heh.You weren't clear yourself and you trash others for their usage of language.Originally Posted by Dik
"...Cut through BV or not reinforced skin"Originally Posted by Dunaik
how he has to keep his blut vene open to protect himself against Ichigo's speed, but at the same time, he can't mount a powerful enough attack unless he switches to blut arterie. So, it seems the quincies switch between one and the other, but can't do it amidst speedy attacks.
Kisuke gives a more thorough analysis. So, it does seem that the quincies control the flow of blut vene and blut arterie. Yet, there is nothing that says they 'turn it off or on.' And in fact, they don't appear to control the strength of it. I remember a quincy telling another to inform Ywach to strengthen the blut. I am trying to find the chapter, but the sites are giving me headaches with all of the pop ups. I will post that when I find it.
But it does seems from the info given that a) Ywach controls the strength of the blut, b) the quincies control the flow, but c) that suggests that they do not 'turn it off and on' and d) this cannot be done while fighting a significantly fast opponent, or one in bankai (which makes using the medals a necessity). I hope that was helpful. Now, I have to go debug my computer, then find that reference to Ywach controlling blut...
So, to conclude, As Nodt saw Byakuya approach and knew he was a captain, so with all likelihood was flowing blut vene. It would have been the strategic/natural/smart thing to do. And Byakuya calmly tore through it, which is why As Nodt would be surprised. He wouldn't be surprised if Byakuya hurt him while not using blut to protect himself. That would make no sense at all. What took him by surprise was Byakuya piercing his blut. It's really the only sensible thing to explain that look of surprise and Mask's teasing verbal jab.
Really liking being an American today.
Last edited by Firebird0ne; December 24, 2013 at 01:14 PM.
Honestly i dont think he intended for byakuya to die, considering he emphasized the rivalry between zaraki and byakuya for years.
He gave zaraki a big ass upgrade... it looks very consequential to me to also buff his rival.
Byakuya was piss weak before this ordeal, therefore killing him off has not as big of an impact as killing off someone like the captain commander or his two favority students.
I hate the byakuya character, he is such an arrogant little piece of shit. I cant imagine anyone going out of their way to complain to the author that he got killed off.
Last edited by gh0un; December 24, 2013 at 01:23 PM.
What's your point?
BV activates instinctively depending on what the user is doing if being attack it actively pumps reishi through the veins of were the attack struck to strengthen defenses.
Nowhere in the manga has it suggested otherwise ie turning on and off at will.
do you see where im going with this.
So it stands to reason that As Nodt was actively witnessing his blut working and not having something which in all extensive purposes is an attack harm him.
Also going back to the post that started this i said:
Your exact words 'Manga serves as proof.' & 'One thing is for sure, he let himself be cut and did nothing to prevent it.'
This is your proof which has been proven to be utter BS and complete fabrication to what is shown in the manga. And you call us idiots, seriously dude
I'm not saying its switched on all the time.......
What there suggests he can turn it of or on at will.
BA increases the Attack of Quincy = so when they attack its got more destructive force
BV Increases the Defence of Quincy = When attacked and blade touches skin the BV is active
Kirge states that Ichigos speed is dangerous, which makes him unable to use BA because BV is continuously active.
I have provided evidence to what you said was wrong, you just have a bad complex about reading everything especially when it proves you wrong.
Now going back to as nodt and byakayua provide me with proof that isn't your deluded conception of how blut vene is turned off at will and not activated when quincy are attacked this is what i have asked for since you made the bold claim as manga fact
No it isn't. Blut is inherent to full-blooded Quincy. Half breeds have to learn how to use the technique.Originally Posted by Duniak
Where'd you ever see them claim that Blut Vene was automatic? And if it was automatic, why does a Quincy have to consciously change it from offense to defense? The answer is they don't, because it's not automatic. They have to pump reishi into their blood vessels. Only then is Blut activated.
Where the hell'd you get the idea that I said it was only meant for Bankai? I said that it is intended for Bankai, as in they were taught it because it was a necessity to defend against Bankai. And he did have problems using it against Ichigo. In my very scan he mentions that he couldn't push the offensive because he needed arteriae just to have strong enough attacks for a bankai wielding opponent, but he needed to defend against a bankai wielding opponent too, which was only possible thanks to his Blut.Quote:
Sternritter minus Blut equals dead meat against a Captain-class foe, as per Quilge's admittance.
You uh... you maybe wanna think about that again?Quote:
[Only it can cut an opponent, who purposefully lifted his arm to it's blades to see what it is. [/quote]
No. Only that it can cut an opponent who's using a defense that's supposedly a necessity for dealing with Bankai wielding opponents. Now, if you would've said "As Nodt's Blut is probably weaker than any other Blut we've seen" , it'd have a bit more merit since I can't prove his Blut is any stronger than any other Sternritter (though you can't prove it isn't). But you didn't go that route. Instead, you chose to completely misinterpret what happened.
Allow me to simplify.Quote:
As Nodt knew that a shikai was coming after him. And he also believed that he could tank it. The blades appeared near his hand. He looked at it, because he didn't know what was going on, since the blades brushed by and he wasn't harmed... until blood started squirting from his hand. Then he comes to the surprised realization that "Wait... I just used my Blut... and it was cut! With a SHIKAI no less!? What devilry is this!!?!"
You however, are claiming that he deliberately held his hand up in the path of Senbonzakura to test how strong it was. More like this:
"As your subordinate has just told you... using a shikai against a Sternritter is impossible. Behold my hand as you try to futily cut it. In fact, I don't even have to strengthen my Blut to endure it."
That's not what happened. He was looking at his hand that had just been brushed by Senbonzakura and, because the cut was so fast, the injury was a delayed reaction (which is done often in anime to show how fast something is moving).
Heh heh. I love you man.Quote:
That's how it started. Then you put this:Quote:
If you're gonna coach someone on how their native language works, perhaps learn how it actually works first. It wouldn't be called "Not reinforced skin". You could have said "normal skin". You could have said "unprotected skin". You could've said "non-reinforced skin". Attacking someone's nationality is another sign of desperation by the way.Originally Posted by you, previously
And the most delicious part about it? We know for a fact it wasn't "not reinforced skin" (lmao), because we see the god damned blut vene underneath his skin while he's being cut. So even if you were successfully correcting my English (you weren't), you're still wrong thanks to the actual picture of As Nodt's hand. You're just wrong.
Also i would like to point out another thing that has crossed my mind, when Ichigo had his Quincy power awakened he had Blut Vene activated to but he had zero idea that it was active, but yet in the manga it clearly shows him using it instinctively not knowingly. Blut is either active upon impact or its instinctive to the person being attacked.
Both instances without knowing he has the technique pretty much concretes the idea that it is instinctively activated upon impact.
With training it can be strengthened as told by Isshin. All Pure-Quincy have it from birth but can strengthen it with training. Mixed-Quincy have to train hard for it to become active, in some ways i think the training Uuyru and Ryuuken were having was so he could not only get his powers back but off-screen blut training(my theory of course)
Right i found these stats on manga fox, while i know they are not 100% cannon they are accurate in terms of what has been shown:
By the way i'm waiting for your Manga serving proof for you claim, with all the evidence i have put fourth to you proving your claim is wrong and unjustified. You have to provide me with the same amount of curtsy since your so adamant.
Every line here is a complete misconception of what is actually happening, so the proof is still to come one would hope. Otherwise we have literally cluttered this thread with a pointless argument that you have no evidence to prove Byakuya didnt cut through blut vene.
Now with the very bases that Byakayua and Shunsui were the only captains to do so this adds to the fact he is above other captains that were fighting the SR without inflicting damage. Meaning he is a Strong shinigami possibly about the high mid/low top area in actuality
Last edited by devstauk; December 25, 2013 at 07:19 AM.
In that page? Well thrice.The one who shouldn't post another thing here is you,Not me.Ofcourse I laughed when you said "the discussion is NOT about Blut".
I was thinking that you were implying that As Nodt used a lower level of Blut (Vene) to "test" Byakuya,Which Byakuya succeded,After which Mask said to As Nodt to not let his Blut (Vene) getting cut easily.Well you don't seem to be doing so,My mistake.I don't know how As Nodt would "test" Byakuya by any other means.(However that was the only instant where we get the idea that Quincy can alter the strength of Blut,Given that Mask doesn't speak straight,It might not be the case)
Very convenient.Originally Posted by Duniak